White House Seeks Immunity For Telecoms

It Wants To Shield Companies And Individuals From Privacy Lawsuits Arising From Eavesdropping Program

(AP)  The Bush administration wants the power to grant legal immunity to telecommunications companies that are slapped with privacy suits for cooperating with the White House's controversial warrantless eavesdropping program.

The authority would effectively shut down dozens of lawsuits filed against telecommunications companies accused of helping set up the program.

The vaguely worded proposal would shield any person who allegedly provided information, infrastructure or "any other form of assistance" to the intelligence agencies after the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks. It covers any classified communications activity intended to protect the country from terrorism.

Republicans say immunity is necessary to protect the companies that responded to legal presidential orders to thwart terrorists in the years after 9/11. But some Democrats fear the administration's proposal would do much more than advertised, potentially protecting anyone who gave broad categories of aid to the government as part of a spy program that monitors communications.

Because the administration does not want to identify which companies participated in the operations, it is asking Congress to let the attorney general intervene on behalf of any person or company accused of participating in the surveillance work, whether or not they actually did, two senior Justice Department officials said.

More than a dozen government officials interviewed for this story spoke on condition they not be identified because sensitive negotiations with Congress are ongoing.

One of the officials said the defendants in suits brought by the American Civil Liberties Union - Verizon and AT&T - would be the key beneficiaries of the proposed legislation. Both companies are a central part of the U.S. communications grid, running networks that transmit both telephone calls and e-mails.

There is a divide among Capitol Hill's majority Democrats about whether the companies deserve any protection. Some believe they were operating in good faith, on orders that appeared to be lawful; others believe lawyers at the companies had a responsibility to ensure the requests weren't an abuse of presidential power.

National Intelligence Director Mike McConnell considers the issue a key element of any legislation that Congress considers this fall to update the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, known as FISA.

Trying to make his point, McConnell recently confirmed that the private sector assisted with the surveillance work - and faces lawsuits. "If you play out the suits at the value they're claimed, it would bankrupt these companies," McConnell told the El Paso (Texas) Times in an interview posted online last week.

The companies could face civil penalties of at least $1,000 per customer, for a total that would reach well into the billions.

Democrats say McConnell's first draft of the immunity proposal is far too murky. Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., an intelligence committee member, fears the language would go far beyond protecting private companies and their employees and would also give cover to any government officials who may have broken the law.

"I and others are going to make sure that anything that is done is done in a narrow, targeted way," Wyden said.

Missouri Sen. Kit Bond, the intelligence committee's top Republican, said, "The only question here is whether we should provide full liability protection to those companies that are alleged to have assisted the government in protecting the United States. The answer is a resounding 'yes.'"

In the weeks after 9/11, the White House launched a new surveillance program that allowed the National Security Agency to monitor communications between people in the United States and others overseas when terrorism was suspected. With legal directives in hand, the government asked a narrow group of telecommunications carriers to participate in a program.

Conventional wisdom has long been that the bulk of the surveillance operations - groundbreaking because they lacked judicial oversight - involved primarily telephone calls. However, officials say the Bush administration's program frequently went after e-mail and other Internet traffic, which al Qaeda has embraced as a key means of communication.

After the highly-classified operations became public in 2005, a wave of lawsuits was filed, including cases against AT&T and Verizon, two telecommunications providers alleged to have participated. The legal battles gave the telecommunications industry pause, government officials said.

David S. Kris, former associate deputy attorney general for national security issues, said the debate over immunity raises a broad policy question: "To what extent is the private sector supposed to be a check on government power?"

[x083]

george w. bush needs to be removed from office in handcuffs, he has violated his oath of office to uphold and defend the united states constitution.. by destroying america.

[Krazcarl]

All I want to know is this President going to anythig for the working man OK stupid question.

[toolmangler-2009]

Posted by cfin5 at 11:38 PM : Aug 31, 200


Yes, That comes under the re_writing of the "Posse comitatus" act of 1878

Here is further reading on the subject.

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=57404

[me4prezz]

A tyrant; a despot---definition of dictator.

An absolute ruler who governs without restrictions---definition of tyrant.

Andrew Johnson (1808-1875), 17th president of the United States (1865-1869). Johnson was the first U.S. president to be impeached (see Impeachment). The House of Representatives charged him with misbehavior in office, and he escaped conviction in his Senate trial by only one vote. Johnson%u2019s impeachment was the result of a struggle to preserve the powers of the presidency...

Interesting that we can impeach one President for less than half of what our current President is doing. What ever became of patriotism?

[me4prezz]

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin

[cfin5]

ToolMangler, UnderMyBoot,.......Check out the new "Civilian Labor Camps on U.S. Army Posts" story at the top of the page on (worldnetdaily.com). Sounds like what you guys are saying too!

[toolmangler-2009]

Our freedoms are riding on this one. Without fear of prosecution, the Telecoms will give complete access to your communications to the Powers that Be (Big Brother). This administration has begun the fall of the USA. Less than twenty five years from now, we will be a third world nation.
We were told that we would never be conquered from without, but from within. Do we have any believers yet? (No religion required)

First habeas Corpus, then posse comitatus became history. Now legal recourse is being stripped word by word from the constitutional rights that made this country what is is/was..

[kaviz]

Undermyboot,
save they ramblings for your manifesta. Not that I totally disagree, but I tend to fall asleep trying to finish them. Short and sweet is oh so sweet.

[soldat44]

''White House Seeks Immunity For Telecoms
It Wants To Shield Companies And Individuals From Privacy Lawsuits Arising From Eavesdropping Program''

Is this a frickin joke! This White House Gang truly has no morals. Unbelievable...

[gkc99]

Call it the SOS = "Save Our Snitch" -- bill and it will get Repub approval like $hit goes thru a waterfowl.

[undermyboot]

ACTIONS OF AN AMERICAN DICTATOR
(Part 1 of 3)

It''s in plain view on the White House Web site: "Executive Order: Blocking Property of Certain Persons Who Threaten Stabilization Efforts in Iraq."

Under Bush''s far-reaching new executive order of July 17, the U.S. government has endowed itself with the authority to freeze the American assets of anyone who directly or indirectly assists someone who poses "a significant risk" of committing a violent act that has the purpose or effect of threatening the Iraqi government, the "peace and stability" of the country or the reconstruction effort.

The language of the order is far broader than its stated intent. The order''s liberal use of the word "or" and inclusion of the highly subjective term "significant risk" are particularly troubling in the hands of a White House that has suggested that domestic war critics are emboldening U.S. enemies in Iraq.

"On its face, this is the greatest encroachment on civil liberties since the internment of Japanese Americans in World War II," said Bruce Fein, a constitutional lawyer who was a deputy attorney general in the Reagan administration and author of an article of impeachment against President Bill Clinton.

[undermyboot]

(Part 2 of 3)

Fein said the sanctions against suspected violators would amount to "a financial death penalty." The executive order not only calls for the freezing of assets of anyone who directly or indirectly aids our enemies in Iraq, it prohibits anyone else from providing "funds, goods or services" to a blacklisted individual. In other words, a friend or relative could have his or her assets seized for trying to help someone whose bank account is suddenly frozen. An attorney who offered legal help could risk of losing everything he or she owned.

There''s not much need for lawyers in the world of this executive order. The blacklist would be drawn up by the "secretary of treasury, in consultation with the secretary of state and the secretary of defense."

The targets of the property seizures, even American citizens, would not be given any advance notice or opportunity to challenge the government''s action in court. An order this sweeping could encompass "entirely innocent" activities such as an donations to humanitarian relief groups that indirectly provide what the U.S. government decides is "material support" to supporters of the insurgency.

[undermyboot]

(Part 3 of 3)

The Fifth Amendment was written for good reason: It''s dangerous to give the government unchecked authority to seize private property without judicial review. Our founding fathers knew that people in power were not always going to be reasonable or ethical - or competent.

One need look no further than the Transportation Security Administration''s "watch list" - which subjects passengers from a secret list to additional security screening - to see the margin of error. Many thousands of Americans ended up on the TSA watch list for no apparent reason.The government refuses to say who might be on the list - or why.

Fein, who was in San Francisco last week, said latest executive order on Iraq continues a Bush administration pattern of "sneering contempt for the Constitution" that is unmatched in U.S. history. "These precedents, if unchallenged, lie around like loaded weapons," Fein said. He reminds his fellow conservatives that Republicans will not occupy the White House forever.

"King George III," observed Fein, "really would have been jealous of this power."

The framers of our Constitution, however, would be appalled.

[undermyboot]

Typical Bush F*cks. Cry "terrorism". Take one specific need and try to leverage it into universal power for Bush. And the monkeys who support him (here''s a banana for you morons) all start hooting in unison. Like the f''ing jungle and Bush is their alpha chimp. LMFAO. Like the monkeys they are, they only parrot what their master gives them. Incapable of independent thought, but good at (hear the chimp sounds) regurgitating the monkey sh*t they pick up on Fake News Channel. But hey, if the President says it is so, then it must be! LMAO. What a bunch of easily led chimps. Here''s a banana. See banana. Do as Chimp-in-Chief tells you and you''ll get another. What doofus dumb-f*cks. Crawl back into your caves and let the humans do the real thinking. ROFLMFAO

"Terrorism is the best political weapon for nothing drives people harder than a fear of sudden death". - Adolph Hitler

"The easiest way to gain control of a population is to carry out acts of terror. [The public] will clamor for such laws if their personal security is threatened".- Joseph Stalin

Favorite quote of a fascist, Karl Marx Rove:
"It doesn''t matter who casts the ballots.
What matters is who counts the ballots."
- Joseph Stalin -

[undermyboot]

"Tell me please why this Patriot Act is being used for so many criminal investigations in this country, like petty drug cases, that have no connection with terrorism? Lesson: If you give the government power .. it will use that power. It will use 100% of that power, and more." -- Neal Boortz, 9/29/2003

This administration, in fact any government, cannot be "trusted". There is no "Trust", only law and Constitution. If the government is allowed to bypass the law, ignore the Constitution, and re-interpret laws to suit their own ends then there is no "government" only dictatorship.

The Bush and Cheney fascism lovers like see no limit to Presidential power. At every step they demand that the Congress be a rubber stamp for their un-American policies. If they don''t get the rubber stamp then they just do it anyway under the false concept of "Unitary Executive". In other countries this is called "Dictatorship". Bush calls it being "the decider". The repug monkeys who support these fascists are not Americans. They think "American" means supporting anything the President wants. Ignorant fools.

%u201CThat propaganda is good which leads to success, and that is bad which fails to achieve the desired result. It is not propaganda%u2019s task to be intelligent, its task is to lead to success.%u201D- Joseph Goebbels, Nazi Propaganda Minister

Looks like this is where Fake News, Rush, and the rest of the propaganda monkeys in the government zoo learned how to throw their own mindless sh*t. LMFAO

[undermyboot]

The King and his court demand more power. They claim it is needed to make you safe. They say that liberty is an illusion and freedom is the enemy of safety. The dumocrats bend over and spread their cheeks for the King. The country heads toward fascism and dictatorship. The Congress applauds this. The King claims unlimited power is his divine right. The people follow blindly. The press is silent. Faux News supplants the truth with lies and calls it "fair and balanced". "Truth" is redefined by the King and his Faux News government propaganda arm. Behind the scenes the last vestiges of the Constitution are burned under a veil of "national security", and the population applauds the end of liberty as if it were a victory. The monkeys howl their success. The founders of the USA roll over in their graves one last time. The Republic is lost.


"...the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Hermann Goering, Nazi leader

%u201CIt was, as one of his colleagues confirmed, almost a happy day for him when famous buildings were destroyed, because at such time he put into his speeches that ecstatic hatred which aroused the fanaticism...%u201D George Bush after 9/11 (oops, I mean - Joseph Goebbels, Nazi Propaganda Minister)

[cfin5]

I don''t think so! If it was not illegal they would not need immunity would they? Have our leaders lost their minds? He''s allowed to stealth-away the title deed to my Countries sovereignty and still expects our boys to fight and die in Iraq for what? President Bush goes to the uhm,...."jelly bean" summit in Canada with Chertoff and others to negotiate freaking jelly bean recipes? I just checked to see if I was still on the turnip wagon and the answer is YES I AM. How is it that the RNC is not charging forward with I don''t know, "SOMETHING" to stop this SSP / NAU business?!

[kaviz]

Strew, nicely said.

[strewthmate]

I vote for no immunity whatsover for the telecoms.

If they go bankrupt so what... the lawyers will figure out some new corporate scheme to keep the services going to the consumers and it will serve as a lesson to the other CEO''s NOT to cave into pressure from the White House and operate outside the law.

[sharncedar]

If they close the courts, then we will have justice in the dark alleys.

Choose, you filth. you want a trial in a courtroom, or in a makeshift gallows? you filthy, dirty slime. You disgusting, filthy coporate creeps. Do you think you can avoid the hangman''s noose by closing down the court system? We will follow you, we will remember you, we will never, ever forget your sins against democracy, against freedom.

You dirty filth corporations. Close the courts, do your worst, create special laws to protect yourselves, they are just more accusations against you, shouting against you, loud enough to deafen the country. When this wave breaks over your head, there will be a time of punishment that will shock the world.

Enjoy your freedom, ATT and Verizon. Pray often, who knows when your worthless souls will be relieved of their filthy sin.

We will never forget those who harm democracy, those who spy on their own country. God one day you will wish the ACLU was your accuser, and not the people enraged.