DNC Panel: Florida's Primary Is Too Soon

A State Law Moved The Vote To Jan. 29, But It Violates DNC Rules

(CBS)  By CBSNews.com's David Miller

---

Ignoring an impassioned plea from Florida Democrats — and the fact that their party's eventual presidential nominee could render their effort moot — a Democratic National Committee panel voted to strip Florida of all its delegates to the party's 2008 national convention unless it backs away from a plan to hold a presidential primary on Jan. 29 in violation of DNC rules.

The DNC's Rules and Bylaws Committee, meeting Saturday in Washington, decided to sanction Florida after the state passed a law — approved by a Republican-led legislature and signed by Republican Gov. Charlie Crist — calling for both major parties to hold primaries on Jan. 29. At the time the law was signed, that would have put Florida's primaries before all others except Iowa and New Hampshire. DNC rules say that only those states, as well Nevada and South Carolina, can vote before Feb. 5, 2008 and have their delegates counted.

A three-person delegation representing Florida's Democratic Party said Republicans had forced the primary on them, despite their taking "provable, positive steps" to block the legislation.

"We're asking you for mercy, not judgment," Jon Ausman, one of Florida's DNC members, told the committee.

Florida Democrats have 30 days to come up with a plan that fits with the committee's rules — an unlikely prospect.

The DNC has suggested Florida Democrats make their primary a non-binding "beauty contest" and hold a caucus to select delegates at a later date. But, the Floridians argued that solution was not satisfactory, claiming that a caucus — which involves far fewer voting sites than a primary — in a state as large as Florida would effectively disenfranchise voters.

They also noted that the Jan. 29 ballot will feature a property tax initiative they believe would leave the state's schools, fire departments and other agencies underfunded. Were the Jan. 29 Democratic primary to be non-binding, voters who opposed the initiative would be less likely to turn out, they said.

"I am a person that believes in rules, and believes in procedures, because I don't believe in chaos," former U.S. Rep. Karen Thurman, chairwoman of the Florida Democratic Party, said after the vote. "But at the same time, I still believe the rules that were written, and the ones that we highlighted, specifically say that if you put [forth] provable and positive steps, and you can prove that, that in fact, there should be at least an obligation to look at what they can do instead of imposing."

But many members of the committee said Florida Democrats had not proven they did all they could to prevent the date change and, regardless, the DNC had to enforce the rules to preserve some sense of order to a process that has become increasingly front-loaded.

James Roosevelt Jr., the committee's co-chair, said the legislative record demonstrates their point. "It makes it clear that the Republicans were the moving force behind the selection of a date that violated both the Democratic and Republican rules, but the efforts to oppose that were form over substance," he said.

Donna Brazile, who sits on the committee and is most known for managing Al Gore's 2000 presidential campaign, said she sympathized with Florida, but couldn't back them.

"I understand how states crave to be first. I understand that they are envious of the role Iowa and New Hampshire have traditionally played," she said. "But the truth is that we have a process and, whether some of us are mum or some of us shout it, we uphold it."

Others on the committee noted that other, larger states resisted the urge to move up their primaries in violation of party rules. "Rules are rules, and California abided by them and I believe Florida should as well," said Garry Shay, a committee member from California who noted that his state decided against trying to hold a primary in early January.

California is among more than 20 states that have moved, or are likely to move, their nominating contests to Feb. 5, the earliest date allowed by both the Democratic and Republican parties. Florida's push into January, however, set off a scramble that could undo the parties' efforts to have an orderly nominating process. The South Carolina Republican Party has already said it would hold a primary on Jan. 19 to stay ahead of Florida. Michigan is in the process of moving its primary to Jan. 15.

With Iowa and New Hampshire determined to maintain their status as hosts of the nation's first caucuses and primary, respectively, it is possible that the first votes to pick the 2008 presidential nominees will be cast in late 2007, nearly 11 months before Election Day.

The DNC hopes that by strictly enforcing the rules against Florida, it can discourage other states from making similar moves — particularly Michigan, where the state Senate on Thursday passed legislation establishing a Jan. 15 primary. The state House and Democratic Gov. Jennifer Granholm are both expected to back the measure. Michigan Democratic Party Chairman Mark Brewer, who sits on the Rules and Bylaws Committee, remained silent during Saturday's debate but voted to sanction Florida. Only Floridian Allan Katz opposed the decision.

Should Florida ultimately hold a binding primary on Jan. 29, its significance is largely in the hands of the presidential campaigns. If they ignore the state, its results will likely be ignored as well. But if they actively try to win Florida, the primary becomes a measure of strength in one of the country's largest, most diverse states.

Roosevelt said the DNC is communicating with the candidates regarding Florida, but can't force them to skip the state. "There is no sanction on the campaigns since there would be no delegates at stake," he said.

While Saturday's meeting featured forceful argument on both sides, the ultimate question at hand — whether Florida's delegates should be seated at the 2008 Democratic National Convention — may not be settled until the eve of that gathering, which will take place in Denver. It's possible that the Democratic nominee, not wanting to see one of the country's premier battleground states go unheard, would persuade the convention's credentials committee to recognize the delegation.

"Everything that I've heard, my assumption is that the credentials committee gets made up of representatives of the presidential nominee, and they in fact would do that," Thurman said.

Alexis Herman, the co-chair of the Rules and Bylaws Committee, conceded that the credentials committee might end up making the final decision. "The credentials committee, which is the supreme authority at that point in the process, they can decide what they want to do," she said.

[lars008-2009]

Washington Post, Other Newspapers Won''t Run ''Opus'' Cartoon Mocking Radical Islam

A popular comic strip that poked fun at the Rev. Jerry Falwell without incident one week ago was deemed too controversial to run over the weekend because this time it took a humorous swipe at Muslim fundamentalists.
http://salon.com/comics/opus/2007/08/26/opus/

[lars008-2009]

what do you call an ideology that:

kills you if you don''t join it...

http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=82201&ln=eng&txt=islam%20law%20kill%20kaafir

kills you if you leave it...

http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=696&ln=eng&txt=kaafir%20kill

kills you if you don''t do what they tell you to do..

http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=6035&ln=eng&txt=kaafir%20kill

kills you if you speak against it%u2026.

http://islamqa.com/index.php?QR=22809&ln=eng

kills anybody that is not a member of it...

http://www.hauns.com/~DCQu4E5g/koran5.html

still practices slavery

http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=12562&ln=eng&txt=slavery

still practices pagan rituals...

http://answering-islam.org/Silas/pagansources.htm

allows the r a p e of babies and animals...

http://www.homa.org/default.asp?TOCID=2083225445

a. satanic cult???
b. islam???
c. all the above???

Our Prophet commanded us to fight the kaafirs when we are able and to attack them in their homelands and to give them three choices before we enter their lands: either they become Muslim and be like us, sharing our rights and duties; or they pay the jizyah (poll tax) and feel themselves subdued; or they fight, in which case their wealth, women, children and homes become permissible as booty for the Muslims.
http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=13759&ln=eng&txt=before%20islam%20arabia%20pagan

[lars008-2009]

Is islam a violation of international law???

islam practices slavery on non muslims
islam practices apartheid on non muslims
islam practices rape on non muslims
islam practices rape on babies and animals
islam practices genocide on non muslims

all are violations of international law and are crimes against humanity

Universal Declaration of Human Rights
http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/22/world/main2505445.shtml
Imam Khomeini - Supreme Leader of the Islamic Revolution
http://www.homa.org/Details.asp?ContentID=2137352826&TOCID=2083225445
Malaysia women ''suffer apartheid''
The daughter of Malaysia''s former prime minister has launched a scathing attack on the roles and status of Muslim women in the country.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4784784.stm
A matter of tolerance
http://musingwithmarinamahathir.blogspot.com/2006/12/matter-of-tolerance.html
Marina Mahathir
http://musingwithmarinamahathir.blogspot.com/
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=slavery+islam&btnG=Search
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4795808.stm
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=apartheid islam
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=rape islam
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=rape islam babies&btnG=Search
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=genocide islam&btnG=Search

[lars008-2009]

NONE OF US IS FREE UNLESS ALL ARE FREE!!!

WHY IS IT NOT ONE MUSLIM COUNTRY GRANTS EQUAL RIGHTS TO NON MUSLIMS???

FASCIST NAZI TERRORISLAM SAYS UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATES ISLAM LAW...

Universal Declaration of Human Rights
http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

For example, in 1981, the Iranian representative to the United Nations, Said Rajaie-Khorassani, articulated the position of his country regarding the Universal Declaration of Human Rights by saying that the UDHR was "a secular understanding of the Judeo-Christian tradition", which could not be implemented by Muslims without trespassing the Islamic law.

http://www.un.org/terrorism/
http://www.un.org/terrorism/strategy-counter-terrorism.html
http://www.un.org/

But the accepted assumption in India is that most of India''s Muslims were converted to Islam through the sword. Meaning the Indians were given an option between death or adopting Islam. The third option was getting examined in Islam religion along with heavy taxes- Jeziya (poll tax) and Kharaj (property tax).
http://adaniel.tripod.com/Islam.htm

this is what fascist nazi islam calls peace....

are you ready to live under islam rule as a non muslim???

apartheid fascist nazi islamic style

Rights of Non-Muslims in an Islamic State
http://www.sullivan-county.com/id3/islamic_state.htm

None Of Us Are Free - Lynyrd Skynyrd
http://www.lyrics007.com/Lynyrd%20Skynyrd%20Lyrics/None%20Of%20Us%20Are%20Free%20Lyrics.html

[lars008-2009]

FASCIST NAZI TERRORISLAM TO ENSLAVE NON MUSLIM WORLD

HAMAS MICKEY MOUSE SAYS
Islamic rule will benefit Christians and Jews
by Itamar Marcus and Barbara Crook - May 14, 2007
The force behind Hamas TV%u2019s controversial Mickey Mouse clone said today that his children%u2019s television program will continue to promote worldwide Islamic supremacy, for everyone''s benefit, including Christians and Jews.
In a long interview on Hamas TV, Hazim Al-Sha%u2019arawi, Deputy Director of Al-Aqsa TV and one of the creators of the Hamas children%u2019s TV show Tomorrow%u2019s Pioneers, said that using the program to promote Islamic rule over other religions is actually promoting %u201Cjustice, goodness and world love.%u201D
Al-Aqsa TV and the Palestinian Authority have been under fire since PMW reported last week that Tomorrow%u2019s Pioneers was using a character named Farfur, a knockoff of Disney%u2019s Mickey Mouse character, to convey messages about Islamic supremacy as well as hatred of Jews, Israel and the U.S. Despite public statements by PA Minister of Information Mustafa Barghouti that the show would be taken off the air until it could be reviewed and revised, a new episode of the program %u2013 featuring Al-Sha%u2019arawi as one of the hosts %u2013 ran Friday.
http://pmw.org.il/bulletins_may2007.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S995NCeaUg

[lars008-2009]

it is fascist nazi terrorislam stupid%u2026.

non muslims of the world unite... fight against the tyranny of the fascist nazi terrorslam imperialist empire of the darkside...

I was a fanatic...I know their thinking, says former radical Islamist
By blaming the Government for our actions, those who pushed this "Blair''s bombs" line did our propaganda work for us.
More important, they also helped to draw away any critical examination from the real engine of our violence: Islamic theology.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=465570&in_page_id=1770
Bless the Beasts and Children
Fascist nazi terrorslam kills every man woman and child in the village again%u2026 typical mo for terrorslam%u2026
http://www.michaelyon-online.com/wp/bless-the-beasts-and-children.htm

Our Prophet commanded us to fight the kaafirs when we are able and to attack them in their homelands and to give them three choices before we enter their lands: either they become Muslim and be like us, sharing our rights and duties; or they pay the jizyah (poll tax) and feel themselves subdued; or they fight, in which case their wealth, women, children and homes become permissible as booty for the Muslims.
http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=13759&ln=eng&txt=before%20islam%20arabia%20pagan

the truth about fascist nazi terrorislam...
http://www.terrorismawareness.org/what-really-happened/

[xlib]

Let''s get this straight, the dems did this to themseleves and it''s Bush''s fault. You people are laughable. The dems try to put one over and got caught and it''s Bush''s fault.
As for Florida votes not counting, how about our military votes that the goracle didn''t want counted.
Just a reminder libs, the 2000 election was researched by your own NY times and they found no wrongdoing. This was even though the military votes weren''t counted. Get over it.
jn122736-how do you feel about your party being owned by george soros. Show me where that isn''t true. Show me how the dems rake in all this money and tell me how the donations are by regular folks and not corpoations. Your using the typical ploy, class envy and the Republican party being the party of big business. That is no longer the truth and hasn''t been for a long, long time.

[Razzl]

This is the problem for the parties of the 2-party system, that the price they pay for having legal advantages built into the state governments over third parties (such as minority representation laws for city councils, salaried voter registrars and use of public voting machines for primaries) is that the states feel entitled to interfere in what should be internal party matters. There is really nothing to stop states from imposing even earlier dates on the parties, though going earlier than Jan. 1 of the election year seems to be a logical legal limit. Iowa and New Hampshire are going to have to lose their privileged positions in order to persuade other states to cooperate on future changes...

[bobgee_1999]

Who cares? Bush and Co. have succeeded where the British monarchy, the Confederacy, the former Soviet Union and terrorists failed: they have destroyed this country, period. As the 2004 elections made abundantly clear, America is over.

[random_radar]

Florida must be used to not having their votes counted by now.

[antoniof123]

Hey you idiots in California the RNC is trying to do it to you by spliting your vote they are the same GOP just using different slander tactics. Stop them and shut them down once and for all.

[feelfree1]

It is clearly time for the Democrats to join the Republicans in the dustbinof irrelevance.

Good riddance.

Declare your independence!

Just say no to Corporate/Israeli slavery!

[keithle1]

Stupid Dems in Florida need a whipping. Enough of this nonsense. We got a Presidential race to win! I''m not putting up with 4 more years of a
Republican President. :-(

[lawyertom1]

The answer is not for the DNC to punish the Florida Democrats for something forced on them by the Republican Legislature and Governor. The answer is for the DNC to help the Florida Demo''s challenge the law -- freedom of association under the lst Amendment and all that related rot. Rules of associations, no matter how desirable, cannot overturn state law.

[jn122736]

In the mid 1900%u2019s, candidates actually represented various interest groups or parties, Democrat, Republican, et al.

Today%u2019s lections are no longer about the people getting together to elect the best possible candidates to serve in a government of, for, and by the people.

Election primaries/caucuses, and subsequently the election itself, are little more than auction blocks for selling the government to the highest bidder.

Today, most candidates are nothing more than Trojan horses (read, tools), installed in each party or group by the mega-corporations/big business to own and/or control (from within) the United States government (now including the Supreme Court), and by extension, the people.

The Supreme Court has virtually sealed the fate of free and fair elections.
First by giving corporations the same rights as individual citizens in campaign financing, then by virtually anointing Bush president in 2000.

Primary dates are mostly motivated by money and prestige.
Iowa and New Hampshire have held the earliest primary/caucus for many years, with no serious challenge, until the costs of political campaigns went through the roof in recent years.

[missingamerica]

Makes me understand how George W. Bush could even come close to winning in Florida, though.

If their chosen Democratic Party leadership is so megalomaniacal that they don''t care what anybody else thinks, it makes sense that Floridians as a whole would want the same characteristics in their President.

[poetchicago]

A good part of Florida will be under water in ten years due to global warming. They should be worrying about what they are going to do about that instead of playing political musical chairs.

[colonieny]

To RAdio: Thank you for your reply, but it still leaves some question. See the recent NYT article re use of such funds "legally" but as a way to influence current members of congress, as a lobbying tool. (the Ex office holder becomes a lobbyist, and thus can use such funds as influence.) Also, my question stands, regarding said Sen Dowd. He has no chance and not an agenda other than smooth talk in lines with Hillary for example. Who and what groups are giving him money. Money is Money. He may be just wanting it for any and all future uses. Or perhaps it is ego.
You seem like you are an inside Wash type. How do you find out what connections his contributions have ? What Senate commit. does he chair. Is there any connection of influence peddling ?
I am not saying there is any problem, but if there is an accusatioin or "smoke" can''t the news media - or - other gov''t ethics committee- need to fully explore.
Wasn''t he involved in some scandal some years ago ?

[xlib]

Wasn''t it the dems who wanted the primary moved?? I think so. So, just how is this a BIG story and are we to feel some pity for them.
I know, this was printed so that the left can start blaming Bush. I''m waiting to read a post from someone who still thinks Jeb Bush is the Governor of Florida.
chimneyfish-dems play by the rules, you have got to be kidding.

[xlib]

Wasn''t it the dems who wanted the primary moved?? I think so. So, just how is this a BIG story and are we to feel some pity for them.
I know, this was printed so that the left can start blaming Bush. I''m waiting to read a post from someone who still thinks Jeb Bush is the Governor of Florida.
chimneyfish-dems play by the rules, you have got to be kidding.