Report: Top Gen. To Advise Iraq Troop Cuts

Joint Chiefs Chairman Expected To Tell Bush Iraq Force Should Be Cut Almost In Half

(CBS/AP)  The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is expected to suggest a reduction in the U.S. troop level in Iraq next year by almost half, according to a Friday report in the Los Angeles Times.

Gen. Peter Pace will make the recommendation to President Bush, the report says, a move that could pit the top military commander against the thinking of many senior White House officials as to how the Iraq war should be carried out.

The Times says administration and military officials have told the paper that Pace will express concerns of his subordinate Joint Chiefs that leaving more than 100,000 U.S. troops in Iraq through next year could put too much of a strain on the military.

Pace's advice to Mr. Bush could directly challenge a report being prepared by the senior U.S. commander in Iraq, Gen. David Petraeus, who is calling for sustained troop levels beyond 2008, the Times reports.

According to the newspaper, Pace is expected to give his advice to Mr. Bush privately, instead of making a formal report.

If the report is correct, and such a senior military official does contradict the Bush administration's stated strategy of keeping U.S. force levels high until there are signs of political reconciliation in Iraq, then it could serve to significantly strengthen the position of those who oppose the present course in the war.

On Thursday, senior Republican Sen. John Warner of Virginia said President Bush should start bringing home some troops by Christmas, to show the Baghdad government that the U.S. commitment in Iraq is not open-ended. (Read more)

The move put the prominent Republican at odds with the president, who has insisted that conditions on the ground should dictate deployments.

Warner said the troop withdrawals are needed because Iraqi leaders have failed to make substantial political progress, despite an influx of U.S. troops initiated by Bush earlier this year.

Warner says the departure of even a small number of U.S. service members — perhaps 5,000 out of the 160,000 troops in Iraq — would send a powerful message throughout the region that time is running out.

But the U.S. military commander in one of Iraq's more troubled areas rejected Friday Warner's proposal — and by default, the expected advice of Pace — saying a withdrawal would mean "a giant step backward" in his region.

Army Maj. Gen. Rick Lynch, commander of troops south of Baghdad, said militants pushed from his sector in recent operations would quickly return.

"If coalition soldiers were to leave, having fought hard for that terrain, having denied the enemy their sanctuaries, what'd happen is the enemy would come back," said Lynch.

"He'd start building the bombs again, he'd start attacking the locals again and he'd start exporting that violence into Baghdad and we would take a giant step backward," Lynch told Pentagon reporters in a video conference from Iraq.

He said recent gains resulted from the buildup of troops in Iraq and that he needs all the forces he has until Iraqis are able to step up and take over, perhaps some time next year.

President Bush has refused to set any dates for the beginning of a troop level reduction, insisting that the decision will be made based on the judgments of commanders in the field.

In other developments:

Sixty suspected al Qaeda in Iraq fighters hit national police facilities in a coordinated attack in Samarra, sparking two hours of fighting that saw three people killed and more than a dozen insurgents captured, Iraqi police said Friday. One policeman, a woman and an 11-year-old girl were killed in the fighting in the city 60 miles north of Baghdad, and nine others were injured. There were no details on insurgent casualties, but police arrested 14 suspects, the spokesman said on condition of anonymity.

Lt. Col. Michael Donnelly, a U.S. military spokesman in northern Iraq, said he had no details on the incident reported by Samarra police, but that an American patrol got into a firefight with gunmen in the city on Friday. Two of the insurgents were killed and another captured, Donnelly said. There were no immediate reports of U.S. casualties.

The U.S. command reported that one soldier was killed in an explosion Friday in Salahuddin province, which includes Samarra, and four soldiers were wounded. It was unclear whether the incident was the same one reported by Donnelly.

A new U.S. intelligence report says Iraq's government will become even shakier in the next six to 12 months and that the country's leaders are "unable to govern effectively." It also finds Iraqi security forces still cannot operate independently.

The U.S. command said Friday that Iraqi troops and U.S. Special Forces raided a home in the Hit area and seized an al Qaeda suspect believed to have shot down an American helicopter in 2004. The forces detained the suspect and a "second person of interest" in a Wednesday raid. In addition to the helicopter attack, the primary suspect is believed to be involved in roadside bombing and sniper attacks on U.S. and Iraqi forces in the region, 85 miles west of Baghdad, the military said in a statement.

© MMVII, CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. The Associated Press contributed to this report.

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by mcvet August 24, 2007 8:35 AM PDT

America lets all agree to NEVER EVER again elect a Southern Fascist to lead this nation. They can not govern and know no other method than arrogance and dictating. That will never work in America and gives the enemy an advantage that our troops can never overcome. Who doesn''t like to see a slimy Southern Fascist fall on their face? That''s how the rest of the world looks at our leader, thus we face terror and a fight ALONE, completely and totally alone. That is NOT the strenght of this nation and that is NOT what made it great. Sieg Heil Bush!!

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by omega39-2009 August 24, 2007 8:44 AM PDT

The Times says administration and military officials have told the paper that Pace will express concerns of his subordinate Joint Chiefs that leaving more than 100,000 U.S. troops in Iraq through next year could put too much of a strain on the military.

Looks like Gen Peter Pace is about to "retire" so he can "spend more time with his family".

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by briannorwood August 24, 2007 8:53 AM PDT

The entire purpose of the "surge" was to give the Iraqi government "breathing room" to settle their internal squabbling.

Clearly, with the entire government on vacation during the most part of the summer and virtually no progress made whatsoever -- this strategy cannot be thought of as anything other than a complete and utter failure.

Now, we know that we cannot maintain the current troop levels there for much longer.

So, once again, the "decider" decides wrongly!

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by panhandlpete August 24, 2007 8:59 AM PDT

So, the elections of 2008 are approaching, and just as the Decider promised his rubberstamps, he will bring home SOME troops, and declare that "mission accomplished" all over again.

WARNER should have to go. He is more interested in the Iraqi people and his Republican party than he is interested in the lives of American soldiers. How would they select the 5,000 from the 160,000 there???

Warner, and many other relics in Congress, seem to think that ALL Americans have 30 day memory spans. As the 5,000 come home, you will see news coverage like we have not seen in 6 years. The stories will begin to show ''victory''. Our SAFETY will be the number one Republican buzz word.......vote Republican or risk an attack. NOT BUYING IT EVER AGAIN.

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by bluestardad August 24, 2007 9:02 AM PDT

DONT TELL US BUSHITS BOBBLE HEAD GENERAL IS GOING TO DO SOMETHING ACTUALLY TO SUPPORT THE TROOPS?

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by tomar0317 August 24, 2007 9:05 AM PDT

The president and his "team" haven''t listened to anyone but themselves. They may say they guide themselves by what the military says but don''t. Let''s not forget also that Bush put the military commanders he wanted where he wanted them!

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by mudrose-2009 August 24, 2007 9:06 AM PDT

In everyone''s haste to translate all that is being said as a mandate for pulling the troops out of Iraq, because Southern Fascists according to certain rabid bigots who perceive themselves to be the keeper of freedom with their intolerant perceptions and, without a doubt, who are muslim sympathizers who have no knowledge of history, communism, socialism, nazism but only what they perceive in their little pea brains to be tyranny because if tyranny smacked them in the face they''d wouldn''t be able to identify it, I say, not so fast. There will be many recommendations coming down the pike now some good, some not so good. But any massive redeployment as is stated in the NIE report would be devastating for Iraq. Aside from our own stupidy, there must be a sustainable force in Iraq if we are not to repeat what the yellow belly Congress did to Vietnam. Pace is retiring. What CBS says and what Peter Pace is going to say will be two different things since he is expected to make recommendations which he hasn''t made yet. So for all you democratic lock-step morons, I''m suggesting that you wait and see. Hope you all caught CNN''s God''s Warriors last night so you can rant about that too.

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by missingamerica August 24, 2007 9:20 AM PDT

That is pretty funny.

Bush, Cheney & Gonzo, LLP appear to have wagered on the military reacting just like their own close circle of friends and supporters do where the taxpayer''s money is concerned: Suck as much money as you can out of the Treasury even if it means creating the demand yourself.

They''ll never understand honor.

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by rushlimpdrug August 24, 2007 9:23 AM PDT

What CBS says and what Peter Pace is going to say will be two different things . . .
Posted by mudrose

Sounds like you know what "Peter Pace is going to say" before anyone else. Guess you got a copy of his recommendations before anyone else.

continue your drinking and name calling from your jihad headquarters.

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by nexgen99 August 24, 2007 9:24 AM PDT

MCVet wrote America lets all agree to NEVER EVER again elect a Southern Fascist to lead this nation.
-------------------------
Do you mean never elect another Jimmy Carter? or Bill Clinton? I agree.

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by walt1944-2009 August 24, 2007 9:24 AM PDT

The chairman of the joint chiefs has stated he would like to see troop levels in Iraq cut by half next year. This runs counter to the Great Emperor Bush''s plan that troop levels should remain the same (and maybe increase) THRU next year. And, since the Great Emperor is the Cin C and the Great Decider (among other grand titles), any hope that troops will be returning home for Christmas and trop levels reduced is like expecting the Cubs to get into the World Series!

SIG HEIL, BUSH!!!

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by micma-2009 August 24, 2007 9:27 AM PDT

Poor mudrose. He looks dummerer and dummerer every day.

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by king77shaw August 24, 2007 9:27 AM PDT

Why is Israel not offering to send troops or help finance the war? After all, aren''t they our ally? Isn''t this what allies do?

The entire Iraq war plan was crafted, promoted and implemented by a select group of Zionists who run the Bush administration (Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, Kenneth Adelman, Scooter Libby, Elliott Abrams, Robert Zoellick, Ari Fleischer, James Schlesinger, David Frum, Joshua Bolten, John Bolton, Michael Chertoff, Bill Kristol).

Why is the sacrifice not being shared ?

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by rushlimpdrug August 24, 2007 9:28 AM PDT

Do you mean never elect another Jimmy Carter? or Bill Clinton? I agree.
Posted by nexgen99

Are they running?

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by mudrose-2009 August 24, 2007 9:30 AM PDT

Sounds like you know what "Peter Pace is going to say" before anyone else. Guess you got a copy of his recommendations before anyone else.

continue your drinking and name calling from your jihad headquarters.
Posted by rushlimpdrug

Now, isn''t that my point dimwit?

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by mudrose-2009 August 24, 2007 9:34 AM PDT

Poor mudrose. He looks dummerer and dummerer every day.

Posted by micma

Well, considering the likes of your postings micma, you aren''t the brightest of light blubs to be criticizing anyone. Some of us do have a point of view.

Posted by king77shaw

Here micma, here''s someone who is as intellectually challenged as you.

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by nyckate August 24, 2007 9:35 AM PDT

Well its about time someone took a stand against Bush -- it''s not like he''s made any right decision yet - you can''t let complete and utter incompetents run a war - too many pay too high a price -- and it is never anyone from the Bush/Cheney cabals.

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by rafterman1 August 24, 2007 9:36 AM PDT

Mudrose,

You thought Nazis were left wing because you saw the word socialist in their official name. So getting analysis from you, talking like you think you know something, is pretty laughable. You accuse everyone else of not understanding, yet it is you who are the clueless one. Nothing is worse than a simpleton who thinks they are smarter than they really are. Like you and Bush for instance. So you make up for it by calling everyone else who shows you up as "enemy sympathizers" - as if that somehow puts you ahead of everyone. Pathetic.

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by nyckate August 24, 2007 9:39 AM PDT

mudrose -- you can''t seriously be trying to infer that you a Bushit Moron actually has the inside scope on what General Pace is going to say???

Or is it that you''re waiting to hear your talking points on Pace from Hannity and Rush??

Bush''s Talking Heads are out in droves - they''re hitting every station that''ll have them - they''re talking in soundbites, lies, fallacies,, fantasies and delusions. TOuting areas that are now almost completely deserted as "safe regions". Of course their frigging safe - nobody lives there anymore.

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by mudrose-2009 August 24, 2007 9:39 AM PDT

Do you mean never elect another Jimmy Carter? or Bill Clinton? I agree.
Posted by nexgen99

Are they running?
Posted by rushlimpdrug

Why, is George Bush running again? All you ever hear of the loonies on the left is the differences between their candidacy and George Bush. Is George Bush running limpy?

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by nyckate August 24, 2007 9:42 AM PDT

mudrose - I watched all of God''s Warriors - and yeah - its was frightening to see God''s Law School -- and worse again to know that Buch hired close deputies from that school - lawyers with wacked out version of morals, values and ethics re-interpeting the laws of the nation - scarier and scarier.

Next President''s first job is going to have to to through each and every department Bush effed up and get rid of God''s Warriors on US payroll.

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by mudrose-2009 August 24, 2007 9:42 AM PDT

Posted by nyckate

Dearie, limpy drug rush said it, not me. See, that''s how you people process information. Not fact but hearsay and then you go on your virtual rants talking about soundbites and lies and fallacies. Right up your alley.

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by nyckate August 24, 2007 9:46 AM PDT

mudrose - HEY STUPID -- WAKE THE EFF UP.

The problem most of the country has with Bush is not that he''s running for office - but that he''s president and is running the country into the ground.


Sheesh - what the heck is wrong with you?? Too many generations of inbreeding???

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by wfbdem August 24, 2007 9:46 AM PDT

In everyone''''s haste to translate all that is being said as a mandate for pulling the troops out of Iraq, because Southern Fascists according to certain rabid bigots who perceive themselves to be the keeper of freedom with their intolerant perceptions and, without a doubt, who are muslim sympathizers who have no knowledge of history, communism, socialism, nazism but only what they perceive in their little pea brains to be tyranny because if tyranny smacked them in the face they''''d wouldn''''t be able to identify it, I say, not so fast.

-Mudrose.

Dear freaking lord, someone teach this poor child punctuation. I actually think this proud member of the 101st Fighting Keyboardist is getting dumber by the day.

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by missingamerica August 24, 2007 9:47 AM PDT

I have to admit that when I consider everything Iraq coldly and dispassionately, the primary beneficiary to our continued presence there is not America but Israel.

For starters, our presence in Iraq makes us a bigger and more brightly painted target, distracting those who would harm Israel.

But more to the point, Israel would appear to have been the true beneficiary from the day the WMD argument lost all credibility and Bush changed his justification to regime change across the Middle East (although I believe he phrased it as "spreading democracy").

What matters it to America what kind of government sells oil to us, as long as they keep selling it to us? We have a long history of "doing business" with absolutely anybody if a profit potential exists.

But on the flip side of the kind, our oil money enables governments that are not friendly to Israel to buy all kinds of nifty weapons.

Which would certainly motivate some to, say, argue for the spread of democracy in the Middle East...particularly since Israel sits astride "The Holy Land".

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by mudrose-2009 August 24, 2007 9:47 AM PDT

Posted by Rafterman1

Nazis as left wing socialists. Just like you. So get use to it. Fascism came into being through Mussolini. Nazis and Fascists were great friends. Hitler was a dysfunctinal homosexual who, because of his inability to come to terms with his imperfect seld, killed any homosexual in sight. He was excommunicated from the Church and he murdered 6 million Jews and 2 million Christains. We don''t know how many homosexuals he murdered, because no one counted. So sorry to burst your little pea brain, but get a grip, your analogies are irrelevant, useless rants.

And nyckate, don''t worry Liberty University won''t eat all the faires.

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by king77shaw August 24, 2007 9:49 AM PDT

gee mudrose - I''ve never attacked you personally - so why am I intellectually challenged ?

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by lochlan-2009 August 24, 2007 9:49 AM PDT

Give me a fricken break, I don''t think the criminals could be any more obviouse. Now we''re going to see all the GOP come out saying "it''s time to bring the troops home", or "I agree with the general", possibly even attacking Bush to try to save their own hide (Bush doesn''t mind, he might even encourage it, he''s leaving office and they stole every dime from Iraq and the tax payer that they could).

Hhmmm!!! I wonder if elections are next year.

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by mudrose-2009 August 24, 2007 9:51 AM PDT

Dear freaking lord, someone teach this poor child punctuation. I actually think this proud member of the 101st Fighting Keyboardist is getting dumber by the day.
Posted by wfbdem

I don''t see why people like you have a problem with run on sentences, that''s how you people think. Should have been as easy as pie for the likes of pseudo-intellectuals like you.

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by roger_inkart August 24, 2007 9:53 AM PDT

Well, I wonder who we should believe in regards to Iraq? The O''Hanlon (I''m a war supporter) and Pollack (let''s invade Iran) report or General Pace and Rep. Warner?

I hope you pro-war folk enjoyed the week or two of "the surge is working" glory. My guess is it''s the closest you''ll ever come to fooling the nation back into this war. It''ll all be downhill from here.

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by nyckate August 24, 2007 9:53 AM PDT

mudrose - ROTFLMAO -- hon - you know how the rest of us don''t know what Rush said as you do? We aren''t stupid enough to tune him in nevermind listen to his stupidies!!!

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by blueskysc August 24, 2007 9:54 AM PDT

Please don''t call Bush a southerner. It''s an insult to any self-respecting southerner. He''s from Connecticut. Not all idiots are from the south. I hope Mudrose isn''t. He certainly doesn''t reflect my views.

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by mudrose-2009 August 24, 2007 9:54 AM PDT

gee mudrose - I''''ve never attacked you personally - so why am I intellectually challenged ?
Posted by king77shaw

Fair enough. I take it back. I apologize.

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by abbe91 August 24, 2007 9:55 AM PDT

"Nazis as left wing socialists."

BS: Nazis were definitely right wing.
Would you say that Korea is a democracy because it''s got "democratic" in its name ?

"Hitler was excommunicated from the Church."

Wrong again. But please post a link to prove it.
By whom ? Pius XII ? God, the guy blessed Hitler''s troops ...
Posted by mudrose at 09:47 AM : Aug 24, 2007

What about posting on topic ?
Tell us what you think of democrats like John Warner or cut-and-run apologists like General Pace ... That''s gonna be fun.

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by rushlimpdrug August 24, 2007 9:56 AM PDT

mudrose - yeah, we''ve read all that you''ve written about hitler and the nazi''s before.
Make the documentary and put it on the discovery channel or fuux.
The story people are posting about here is about
"Joint Chiefs Chairman Expected To Tell Bush Iraq Force Should Be Cut Almost In Half"

so keep drinking - today is Friday after all.

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by nyckate August 24, 2007 9:56 AM PDT

mudrose - ROTFLMA - there''s a reason most of us don''t know that Limpy Rush said it -- unlike you we are too intelligent to tune him in nevermind listen to his stupidities -- now you on the otherhand not only listen but you memorize and repeat them!!! As I said, you bushits get dumber by the second!

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by drummer94 August 24, 2007 10:02 AM PDT

And the house of cards continues to crumble. Will the general be replaced now? And by whom? Shrub has got to be running out of lackeys.

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by micma-2009 August 24, 2007 10:04 AM PDT

What''s up with all these cut and run Republicans?

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by omega39-2009 August 24, 2007 10:05 AM PDT

And the house of cards continues to crumble. Will the general be replaced now? And by whom? Shrub has got to be running out of lackeys.
Posted by drummer94

Barney the dog is still available, he''s too smart to throw himself on Bush''s sword though.

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by drummer94 August 24, 2007 10:10 AM PDT

Aw don''t be so hard on mud. At least he''s got the gonads to come back when his chips are down, unlike some of the others who puke out nonsense then run home to mommy.

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by pepperp1 August 24, 2007 10:12 AM PDT

mudrose - ROTFLMA - there''''s a reason most of us don''''t know that Limpy Rush said it -- unlike you we are too intelligent to tune him in nevermind listen to his stupidities -- now you on the otherhand not only listen but you memorize and repeat them!!! As I said, you bushits get dumber by the second!
Posted by nyckate at 09:56 AM : Aug 24, 2007




Well said nyckate. The adoration of the women on the right for those bad boys born again losers in America who have clinical disorders like Rush and Bush amazes me, and they have no qualms repeating the trash talk of an opiate head, what do you think do they know he was high for years when they were listening to his rantings, they guy is a drug addict. What would Jesus think? LOL

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by mudrose-2009 August 24, 2007 10:14 AM PDT

Posted by abbe91


"We are socialists, we are enemies of today''s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." --Adolf Hitler

(Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)

There''s more dearie and you will have to bear the fact that I was on topic but since you have a good command of Hitler, I thought I''d enhance it for you.

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by nyckate August 24, 2007 10:14 AM PDT

roger_inkart - apparently some are deeming that the "surge" is working in some areas - problem is that many of these areas are now pretty much deserted - since the surge an additional 100,000 persons are fleeing the country each month - some areas can''t even handle the sheer number of displaced persons -- it''s a country totally out of control from every aspect and every angle - they have less of everything from food to electricity to safety - they actually had more under Saddam.

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by jowand August 24, 2007 10:17 AM PDT

roger_inkart - apparently some are deeming that the "surge" is working in some areas - problem is that many of these areas are now pretty much deserted - since the surge an additional 100,000 persons are fleeing the country each month - some areas can''''t even handle the sheer number of displaced persons -- it''''s a country totally out of control from every aspect and every angle - they have less of everything from food to electricity to safety - they actually had more under Saddam.
Posted by nyckate at 10:14 AM : Aug 24, 2007

You sound like that CBS idiot/bigot Dan Rather, he used to make it up as he went along.

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by mudrose-2009 August 24, 2007 10:17 AM PDT

Hitler and all his top lieutenants were hard-core socialists who hated everything about the old Europe, including small states, the monarchs, the Church, the landed aristocracy, peace, and the free economy of the 19th century. They imagined themselves running a centralized, protectionist, and statist Germany under the executive-branch "leadership principle." They talked constantly of a proletarian revolution that would destroy the bourgeois class.

Furthermore, the Nazis were health fanatics who banned cigarette smoking, promoted vegetarianism and organic gardening, engaged in abortion and euthanasia, frowned on all capitalist excess, and even promoted animal rights. They were environmentalists who locked up land from development to promote paganism.

The Nazi government introduced socialized medicine and government-mandated vacations at government spas, imposed handgun control, and expanded unemployment "insurance" and Social Security. The Nazis opposed the traditional calendar and wanted to replace it with one centered on race and nation rather than faith and family.

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by nyckate August 24, 2007 10:19 AM PDT

mudrose - yeah - and like Bush Hitler also said he was a christian -- but you know what sociopaths like Bush, Cheney and Hitler do? They lie.

The thing you can''t provide is factual evidence of Hitler''s socialism. Problem isn''t it? See how meaningless soundbites and useless rhetoric is? Nothing to back it up -- you can''t back up hitler''s claim that he was a socialist and Bush can''t back up that his Invasion & Occupation of Iraq was justified.

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by jowand August 24, 2007 10:20 AM PDT

And the house of cards continues to crumble. Will the general be replaced now? And by whom? Shrub has got to be running out of lackeys.
Posted by drummer94

Barney the dog is still available, he''''s too smart to throw himself on Bush''''s sword though.
Posted by omega39 at 10:05 AM : Aug 24, 2007

At least Bush has a full deck, unlike most of you NEOSIVS on this site.

Reply to this comment

by nyckate August 24, 2007 10:22 AM PDT

mudrose - LMAO - socialized medicine is NOT socialism you fool. Ireland has socialized medicine yet is a fabulously successful country of capitalism - as is German, France, Britian, etc. The depth of your stupidity is bottomless.

THis is what happens with simpleminded persons trying to comphrend things well beyond they ability. We get you touting foolishness, Bush touting fallacies and both failing the US badly.

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by mudrose-2009 August 24, 2007 10:22 AM PDT

Hitler and Excommunication. The allegation is sometimes made that the Catholic Church never excommunicated Hitler from membership. It is unknown whether Hitler was formally excommunicated or not, but it doesn''t matter. Hitler was already excommunicated ipso facto under the canon law of the Catholic Church for his numerous sinful crimes. He could only have returned to the Catholic faith, even assuming that he would ever have wanted to, by having his excommunication removed by the Pope himself. The lifting of such excommunication is reserved to the Pope, latae sententiae.

Furthermore, the conference of German bishops excommunicated all Nazis in 1930, and in the 1932 elections forbade Catholics to vote for a Nazi. By being the leader of the Nazi party, Hitler had already put himself outside of the Church.

Finally, it should be noted that the whole purpose of excommunication is to help the sinner recognize the enormity of his sins, so he will seek forgiveness. As St. Paul wrote: "If any one refuses to obey our word by this letter, note that man, and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed. Do not look on him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother." (2 Thes 3:14-15). Someone like Hitler, who did not believe in the truth of Christianity, would simply shrug it off.

http://www.geocities.com/chiniquy/Hitler.html

And lastly abbe dearie, what exactly does Peter Pace say in the article. I would like an exact quote?

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by rafterman1 August 24, 2007 10:24 AM PDT

===Nazis as left wing socialists. Just like you. So get use to it. Fascism came into being through Mussolini. Nazis and Fascists were great friends. Hitler was a dysfunctinal homosexual who, because of his inability to come to terms with his imperfect seld, killed any homosexual in sight...So sorry to burst your little pea brain, but get a grip, your analogies are irrelevant, useless rants.===

First of all, Hitler wasn''t believed to be a homosexual though he was perverse in his sexual habits. So right there, you prove you don''t know c r a p about Hitler and Nazism. Try reading "Explaining Hitler" by Ron Rosenbaum. Strike One. Also, you don''t know c r a p about history, otherwise you would realize by the experiences of the French in Vietnam, the US in Vietnam, the Russians in Afghanistan and the Israelis in Lebanon that Iraq won''t be any more successful than any of those other misadventures. Strike Two. And you are right. Some people (like you) don''t know tyranny when it hits them in the face (like in Bush peeing on the Constitution). Germans didn''t realize tyranny was at hand until it was too late. Just like you not realizing tyranny in America from the far right is also at hand. Strike Three, you''re Out.

So please stop trying to pass yourself off as an intellectual. Also, your Hitler = left wing insistence is laughable. You against a million historians, huh? At least have the courage to admit you are wrong about that.

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[mcvet]

America lets all agree to NEVER EVER again elect a Southern Fascist to lead this nation. They can not govern and know no other method than arrogance and dictating. That will never work in America and gives the enemy an advantage that our troops can never overcome. Who doesn''t like to see a slimy Southern Fascist fall on their face? That''s how the rest of the world looks at our leader, thus we face terror and a fight ALONE, completely and totally alone. That is NOT the strenght of this nation and that is NOT what made it great. Sieg Heil Bush!!

[omega39-2009]

The Times says administration and military officials have told the paper that Pace will express concerns of his subordinate Joint Chiefs that leaving more than 100,000 U.S. troops in Iraq through next year could put too much of a strain on the military.

Looks like Gen Peter Pace is about to "retire" so he can "spend more time with his family".

[briannorwood]

The entire purpose of the "surge" was to give the Iraqi government "breathing room" to settle their internal squabbling.

Clearly, with the entire government on vacation during the most part of the summer and virtually no progress made whatsoever -- this strategy cannot be thought of as anything other than a complete and utter failure.

Now, we know that we cannot maintain the current troop levels there for much longer.

So, once again, the "decider" decides wrongly!

[panhandlpete]

So, the elections of 2008 are approaching, and just as the Decider promised his rubberstamps, he will bring home SOME troops, and declare that "mission accomplished" all over again.

WARNER should have to go. He is more interested in the Iraqi people and his Republican party than he is interested in the lives of American soldiers. How would they select the 5,000 from the 160,000 there???

Warner, and many other relics in Congress, seem to think that ALL Americans have 30 day memory spans. As the 5,000 come home, you will see news coverage like we have not seen in 6 years. The stories will begin to show ''victory''. Our SAFETY will be the number one Republican buzz word.......vote Republican or risk an attack. NOT BUYING IT EVER AGAIN.

[bluestardad]

DONT TELL US BUSHITS BOBBLE HEAD GENERAL IS GOING TO DO SOMETHING ACTUALLY TO SUPPORT THE TROOPS?

[tomar0317]

The president and his "team" haven''t listened to anyone but themselves. They may say they guide themselves by what the military says but don''t. Let''s not forget also that Bush put the military commanders he wanted where he wanted them!

[mudrose-2009]

In everyone''s haste to translate all that is being said as a mandate for pulling the troops out of Iraq, because Southern Fascists according to certain rabid bigots who perceive themselves to be the keeper of freedom with their intolerant perceptions and, without a doubt, who are muslim sympathizers who have no knowledge of history, communism, socialism, nazism but only what they perceive in their little pea brains to be tyranny because if tyranny smacked them in the face they''d wouldn''t be able to identify it, I say, not so fast. There will be many recommendations coming down the pike now some good, some not so good. But any massive redeployment as is stated in the NIE report would be devastating for Iraq. Aside from our own stupidy, there must be a sustainable force in Iraq if we are not to repeat what the yellow belly Congress did to Vietnam. Pace is retiring. What CBS says and what Peter Pace is going to say will be two different things since he is expected to make recommendations which he hasn''t made yet. So for all you democratic lock-step morons, I''m suggesting that you wait and see. Hope you all caught CNN''s God''s Warriors last night so you can rant about that too.

[missingamerica]

That is pretty funny.

Bush, Cheney & Gonzo, LLP appear to have wagered on the military reacting just like their own close circle of friends and supporters do where the taxpayer''s money is concerned: Suck as much money as you can out of the Treasury even if it means creating the demand yourself.

They''ll never understand honor.

[rushlimpdrug]

What CBS says and what Peter Pace is going to say will be two different things . . .
Posted by mudrose

Sounds like you know what "Peter Pace is going to say" before anyone else. Guess you got a copy of his recommendations before anyone else.

continue your drinking and name calling from your jihad headquarters.

[nexgen99]

MCVet wrote America lets all agree to NEVER EVER again elect a Southern Fascist to lead this nation.
-------------------------
Do you mean never elect another Jimmy Carter? or Bill Clinton? I agree.

[walt1944-2009]

The chairman of the joint chiefs has stated he would like to see troop levels in Iraq cut by half next year. This runs counter to the Great Emperor Bush''s plan that troop levels should remain the same (and maybe increase) THRU next year. And, since the Great Emperor is the Cin C and the Great Decider (among other grand titles), any hope that troops will be returning home for Christmas and trop levels reduced is like expecting the Cubs to get into the World Series!

SIG HEIL, BUSH!!!

[micma-2009]

Poor mudrose. He looks dummerer and dummerer every day.

[king77shaw]

Why is Israel not offering to send troops or help finance the war? After all, aren''t they our ally? Isn''t this what allies do?

The entire Iraq war plan was crafted, promoted and implemented by a select group of Zionists who run the Bush administration (Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, Kenneth Adelman, Scooter Libby, Elliott Abrams, Robert Zoellick, Ari Fleischer, James Schlesinger, David Frum, Joshua Bolten, John Bolton, Michael Chertoff, Bill Kristol).

Why is the sacrifice not being shared ?

[rushlimpdrug]

Do you mean never elect another Jimmy Carter? or Bill Clinton? I agree.
Posted by nexgen99

Are they running?

[mudrose-2009]

Sounds like you know what "Peter Pace is going to say" before anyone else. Guess you got a copy of his recommendations before anyone else.

continue your drinking and name calling from your jihad headquarters.
Posted by rushlimpdrug

Now, isn''t that my point dimwit?

[mudrose-2009]

Poor mudrose. He looks dummerer and dummerer every day.

Posted by micma

Well, considering the likes of your postings micma, you aren''t the brightest of light blubs to be criticizing anyone. Some of us do have a point of view.

Posted by king77shaw

Here micma, here''s someone who is as intellectually challenged as you.

[nyckate]

Well its about time someone took a stand against Bush -- it''s not like he''s made any right decision yet - you can''t let complete and utter incompetents run a war - too many pay too high a price -- and it is never anyone from the Bush/Cheney cabals.

[rafterman1]

Mudrose,

You thought Nazis were left wing because you saw the word socialist in their official name. So getting analysis from you, talking like you think you know something, is pretty laughable. You accuse everyone else of not understanding, yet it is you who are the clueless one. Nothing is worse than a simpleton who thinks they are smarter than they really are. Like you and Bush for instance. So you make up for it by calling everyone else who shows you up as "enemy sympathizers" - as if that somehow puts you ahead of everyone. Pathetic.

[nyckate]

mudrose -- you can''t seriously be trying to infer that you a Bushit Moron actually has the inside scope on what General Pace is going to say???

Or is it that you''re waiting to hear your talking points on Pace from Hannity and Rush??

Bush''s Talking Heads are out in droves - they''re hitting every station that''ll have them - they''re talking in soundbites, lies, fallacies,, fantasies and delusions. TOuting areas that are now almost completely deserted as "safe regions". Of course their frigging safe - nobody lives there anymore.

[mudrose-2009]

Do you mean never elect another Jimmy Carter? or Bill Clinton? I agree.
Posted by nexgen99

Are they running?
Posted by rushlimpdrug

Why, is George Bush running again? All you ever hear of the loonies on the left is the differences between their candidacy and George Bush. Is George Bush running limpy?

[nyckate]

mudrose - I watched all of God''s Warriors - and yeah - its was frightening to see God''s Law School -- and worse again to know that Buch hired close deputies from that school - lawyers with wacked out version of morals, values and ethics re-interpeting the laws of the nation - scarier and scarier.

Next President''s first job is going to have to to through each and every department Bush effed up and get rid of God''s Warriors on US payroll.

[mudrose-2009]

Posted by nyckate

Dearie, limpy drug rush said it, not me. See, that''s how you people process information. Not fact but hearsay and then you go on your virtual rants talking about soundbites and lies and fallacies. Right up your alley.

[nyckate]

mudrose - HEY STUPID -- WAKE THE EFF UP.

The problem most of the country has with Bush is not that he''s running for office - but that he''s president and is running the country into the ground.


Sheesh - what the heck is wrong with you?? Too many generations of inbreeding???

[wfbdem]

In everyone''''s haste to translate all that is being said as a mandate for pulling the troops out of Iraq, because Southern Fascists according to certain rabid bigots who perceive themselves to be the keeper of freedom with their intolerant perceptions and, without a doubt, who are muslim sympathizers who have no knowledge of history, communism, socialism, nazism but only what they perceive in their little pea brains to be tyranny because if tyranny smacked them in the face they''''d wouldn''''t be able to identify it, I say, not so fast.

-Mudrose.

Dear freaking lord, someone teach this poor child punctuation. I actually think this proud member of the 101st Fighting Keyboardist is getting dumber by the day.

[missingamerica]

I have to admit that when I consider everything Iraq coldly and dispassionately, the primary beneficiary to our continued presence there is not America but Israel.

For starters, our presence in Iraq makes us a bigger and more brightly painted target, distracting those who would harm Israel.

But more to the point, Israel would appear to have been the true beneficiary from the day the WMD argument lost all credibility and Bush changed his justification to regime change across the Middle East (although I believe he phrased it as "spreading democracy").

What matters it to America what kind of government sells oil to us, as long as they keep selling it to us? We have a long history of "doing business" with absolutely anybody if a profit potential exists.

But on the flip side of the kind, our oil money enables governments that are not friendly to Israel to buy all kinds of nifty weapons.

Which would certainly motivate some to, say, argue for the spread of democracy in the Middle East...particularly since Israel sits astride "The Holy Land".

[mudrose-2009]

Posted by Rafterman1

Nazis as left wing socialists. Just like you. So get use to it. Fascism came into being through Mussolini. Nazis and Fascists were great friends. Hitler was a dysfunctinal homosexual who, because of his inability to come to terms with his imperfect seld, killed any homosexual in sight. He was excommunicated from the Church and he murdered 6 million Jews and 2 million Christains. We don''t know how many homosexuals he murdered, because no one counted. So sorry to burst your little pea brain, but get a grip, your analogies are irrelevant, useless rants.

And nyckate, don''t worry Liberty University won''t eat all the faires.

[king77shaw]

gee mudrose - I''ve never attacked you personally - so why am I intellectually challenged ?

[lochlan-2009]

Give me a fricken break, I don''t think the criminals could be any more obviouse. Now we''re going to see all the GOP come out saying "it''s time to bring the troops home", or "I agree with the general", possibly even attacking Bush to try to save their own hide (Bush doesn''t mind, he might even encourage it, he''s leaving office and they stole every dime from Iraq and the tax payer that they could).

Hhmmm!!! I wonder if elections are next year.

[mudrose-2009]

Dear freaking lord, someone teach this poor child punctuation. I actually think this proud member of the 101st Fighting Keyboardist is getting dumber by the day.
Posted by wfbdem

I don''t see why people like you have a problem with run on sentences, that''s how you people think. Should have been as easy as pie for the likes of pseudo-intellectuals like you.

[roger_inkart]

Well, I wonder who we should believe in regards to Iraq? The O''Hanlon (I''m a war supporter) and Pollack (let''s invade Iran) report or General Pace and Rep. Warner?

I hope you pro-war folk enjoyed the week or two of "the surge is working" glory. My guess is it''s the closest you''ll ever come to fooling the nation back into this war. It''ll all be downhill from here.

[nyckate]

mudrose - ROTFLMAO -- hon - you know how the rest of us don''t know what Rush said as you do? We aren''t stupid enough to tune him in nevermind listen to his stupidies!!!

[blueskysc]

Please don''t call Bush a southerner. It''s an insult to any self-respecting southerner. He''s from Connecticut. Not all idiots are from the south. I hope Mudrose isn''t. He certainly doesn''t reflect my views.

[mudrose-2009]

gee mudrose - I''''ve never attacked you personally - so why am I intellectually challenged ?
Posted by king77shaw

Fair enough. I take it back. I apologize.

[abbe91]

"Nazis as left wing socialists."

BS: Nazis were definitely right wing.
Would you say that Korea is a democracy because it''s got "democratic" in its name ?

"Hitler was excommunicated from the Church."

Wrong again. But please post a link to prove it.
By whom ? Pius XII ? God, the guy blessed Hitler''s troops ...
Posted by mudrose at 09:47 AM : Aug 24, 2007

What about posting on topic ?
Tell us what you think of democrats like John Warner or cut-and-run apologists like General Pace ... That''s gonna be fun.

[rushlimpdrug]

mudrose - yeah, we''ve read all that you''ve written about hitler and the nazi''s before.
Make the documentary and put it on the discovery channel or fuux.
The story people are posting about here is about
"Joint Chiefs Chairman Expected To Tell Bush Iraq Force Should Be Cut Almost In Half"

so keep drinking - today is Friday after all.

[nyckate]

mudrose - ROTFLMA - there''s a reason most of us don''t know that Limpy Rush said it -- unlike you we are too intelligent to tune him in nevermind listen to his stupidities -- now you on the otherhand not only listen but you memorize and repeat them!!! As I said, you bushits get dumber by the second!

[drummer94]

And the house of cards continues to crumble. Will the general be replaced now? And by whom? Shrub has got to be running out of lackeys.

[micma-2009]

What''s up with all these cut and run Republicans?

[omega39-2009]

And the house of cards continues to crumble. Will the general be replaced now? And by whom? Shrub has got to be running out of lackeys.
Posted by drummer94

Barney the dog is still available, he''s too smart to throw himself on Bush''s sword though.

[drummer94]

Aw don''t be so hard on mud. At least he''s got the gonads to come back when his chips are down, unlike some of the others who puke out nonsense then run home to mommy.

[pepperp1]

mudrose - ROTFLMA - there''''s a reason most of us don''''t know that Limpy Rush said it -- unlike you we are too intelligent to tune him in nevermind listen to his stupidities -- now you on the otherhand not only listen but you memorize and repeat them!!! As I said, you bushits get dumber by the second!
Posted by nyckate at 09:56 AM : Aug 24, 2007




Well said nyckate. The adoration of the women on the right for those bad boys born again losers in America who have clinical disorders like Rush and Bush amazes me, and they have no qualms repeating the trash talk of an opiate head, what do you think do they know he was high for years when they were listening to his rantings, they guy is a drug addict. What would Jesus think? LOL

[mudrose-2009]

Posted by abbe91


"We are socialists, we are enemies of today''s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." --Adolf Hitler

(Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)

There''s more dearie and you will have to bear the fact that I was on topic but since you have a good command of Hitler, I thought I''d enhance it for you.

[nyckate]

roger_inkart - apparently some are deeming that the "surge" is working in some areas - problem is that many of these areas are now pretty much deserted - since the surge an additional 100,000 persons are fleeing the country each month - some areas can''t even handle the sheer number of displaced persons -- it''s a country totally out of control from every aspect and every angle - they have less of everything from food to electricity to safety - they actually had more under Saddam.

[jowand]

roger_inkart - apparently some are deeming that the "surge" is working in some areas - problem is that many of these areas are now pretty much deserted - since the surge an additional 100,000 persons are fleeing the country each month - some areas can''''t even handle the sheer number of displaced persons -- it''''s a country totally out of control from every aspect and every angle - they have less of everything from food to electricity to safety - they actually had more under Saddam.
Posted by nyckate at 10:14 AM : Aug 24, 2007

You sound like that CBS idiot/bigot Dan Rather, he used to make it up as he went along.

[mudrose-2009]

Hitler and all his top lieutenants were hard-core socialists who hated everything about the old Europe, including small states, the monarchs, the Church, the landed aristocracy, peace, and the free economy of the 19th century. They imagined themselves running a centralized, protectionist, and statist Germany under the executive-branch "leadership principle." They talked constantly of a proletarian revolution that would destroy the bourgeois class.

Furthermore, the Nazis were health fanatics who banned cigarette smoking, promoted vegetarianism and organic gardening, engaged in abortion and euthanasia, frowned on all capitalist excess, and even promoted animal rights. They were environmentalists who locked up land from development to promote paganism.

The Nazi government introduced socialized medicine and government-mandated vacations at government spas, imposed handgun control, and expanded unemployment "insurance" and Social Security. The Nazis opposed the traditional calendar and wanted to replace it with one centered on race and nation rather than faith and family.

[nyckate]

mudrose - yeah - and like Bush Hitler also said he was a christian -- but you know what sociopaths like Bush, Cheney and Hitler do? They lie.

The thing you can''t provide is factual evidence of Hitler''s socialism. Problem isn''t it? See how meaningless soundbites and useless rhetoric is? Nothing to back it up -- you can''t back up hitler''s claim that he was a socialist and Bush can''t back up that his Invasion & Occupation of Iraq was justified.

[jowand]

And the house of cards continues to crumble. Will the general be replaced now? And by whom? Shrub has got to be running out of lackeys.
Posted by drummer94

Barney the dog is still available, he''''s too smart to throw himself on Bush''''s sword though.
Posted by omega39 at 10:05 AM : Aug 24, 2007

At least Bush has a full deck, unlike most of you NEOSIVS on this site.

[nyckate]

mudrose - LMAO - socialized medicine is NOT socialism you fool. Ireland has socialized medicine yet is a fabulously successful country of capitalism - as is German, France, Britian, etc. The depth of your stupidity is bottomless.

THis is what happens with simpleminded persons trying to comphrend things well beyond they ability. We get you touting foolishness, Bush touting fallacies and both failing the US badly.

[mudrose-2009]

Hitler and Excommunication. The allegation is sometimes made that the Catholic Church never excommunicated Hitler from membership. It is unknown whether Hitler was formally excommunicated or not, but it doesn''t matter. Hitler was already excommunicated ipso facto under the canon law of the Catholic Church for his numerous sinful crimes. He could only have returned to the Catholic faith, even assuming that he would ever have wanted to, by having his excommunication removed by the Pope himself. The lifting of such excommunication is reserved to the Pope, latae sententiae.

Furthermore, the conference of German bishops excommunicated all Nazis in 1930, and in the 1932 elections forbade Catholics to vote for a Nazi. By being the leader of the Nazi party, Hitler had already put himself outside of the Church.

Finally, it should be noted that the whole purpose of excommunication is to help the sinner recognize the enormity of his sins, so he will seek forgiveness. As St. Paul wrote: "If any one refuses to obey our word by this letter, note that man, and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed. Do not look on him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother." (2 Thes 3:14-15). Someone like Hitler, who did not believe in the truth of Christianity, would simply shrug it off.

http://www.geocities.com/chiniquy/Hitler.html

And lastly abbe dearie, what exactly does Peter Pace say in the article. I would like an exact quote?

[rafterman1]

===Nazis as left wing socialists. Just like you. So get use to it. Fascism came into being through Mussolini. Nazis and Fascists were great friends. Hitler was a dysfunctinal homosexual who, because of his inability to come to terms with his imperfect seld, killed any homosexual in sight...So sorry to burst your little pea brain, but get a grip, your analogies are irrelevant, useless rants.===

First of all, Hitler wasn''t believed to be a homosexual though he was perverse in his sexual habits. So right there, you prove you don''t know c r a p about Hitler and Nazism. Try reading "Explaining Hitler" by Ron Rosenbaum. Strike One. Also, you don''t know c r a p about history, otherwise you would realize by the experiences of the French in Vietnam, the US in Vietnam, the Russians in Afghanistan and the Israelis in Lebanon that Iraq won''t be any more successful than any of those other misadventures. Strike Two. And you are right. Some people (like you) don''t know tyranny when it hits them in the face (like in Bush peeing on the Constitution). Germans didn''t realize tyranny was at hand until it was too late. Just like you not realizing tyranny in America from the far right is also at hand. Strike Three, you''re Out.

So please stop trying to pass yourself off as an intellectual. Also, your Hitler = left wing insistence is laughable. You against a million historians, huh? At least have the courage to admit you are wrong about that.