Vietnamese Scoff At Bush's Iraq Analogy

Interviews Reveal Disbelief In President's Likening U.S. Pullout From Vietnam To Withdrawal From Iraq

(CBS/AP)  President Bush touched a nerve among Vietnamese when he invoked the Vietnam War in a speech warning that death and chaos will envelop Iraq if U.S. troops leave too quickly.

People in Vietnam, where opposition to the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq is strong, said Thursday that Mr. Bush drew the wrong conclusions from the long, bloody Southeast Asian conflict.

"Doesn't he realize that if the U.S. had stayed in Vietnam longer, they would have killed more people?" said Vu Huy Trieu of Hanoi, a veteran of the communist forces that fought American troops in Vietnam. "Nobody regrets that the Vietnam War wasn't prolonged except Bush."

He said U.S. troops could never have prevailed here. "Does he think the U.S. could have won if they had stayed longer? No way," Trieu said.

Vietnam's official government spokesman offered a more measured response when asked at a regular media briefing to comment on Bush's speech to American veterans Wednesday.

"With regard to the American war in Vietnam, everyone knows that we fought to defend our country and that this was a righteous war of the Vietnamese people," Foreign Ministry spokesman Le Dung said. "And we all know that the war caused tremendous suffering and losses to the Vietnamese people."

Dung said Vietnam hopes that the Iraq conflict will be resolved "very soon, in an orderly way, and that the Iraqi people will do their best to rebuild their country."

Although Vietnam opposed the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, Dung stressed that ties between Hanoi and Washington have been growing closer since the former foes normalized relations in 1995, two decades after the war's end.

In his remarks to U.S. veterans at the Veterans of Foreign Wars convention in Kansas City, Mo., Mr. Bush said a hasty retreat from Iraq would lead to terrible violence.

"One unmistakable legacy of Vietnam is that the price of America's withdrawal was paid by millions of innocent citizens whose agonies would add to our vocabulary new terms like 'boat people,' 're-education camps' and 'killing fields,'" Mr. Bush said.

Many people in Vietnam said Mr. Bush's comparison was ill-considered.

The only way to restore order in Iraq is for the United States to leave, said Trinh Xuan Thang, a university student.

"Bush sent troops to invade Iraq and created all the problems there," Thang said.

If the U.S. withdrew, he said, the violence might escalate in the short term but the situation would eventually stabilize.

"Let the Iraqis determine their fate by themselves," Thang said. "They don't need American troops there."

Ton Nu Thi Ninh, former chairwoman of the National Assembly's committee on foreign affairs, said Mr. Bush was unwise to stir up sensitive memories of the Vietnam War.

"The price we, the Vietnamese people on both sides, paid during the war was due to the fact that the Americans went into Vietnam in the first place," Ninh said.

Mr. Bush's comments drew criticism from politicians and historians who claimed he did not understand the lessons of the Vietnam War or was using the wrong historical lessons to sell our military's continued presence in Iraq.

"It's an untenable position," historian Douglas Brinkley told CBS News White House correspondent Bill Plante "It's divisive. It's not going to sell. You are not going to be able to sell the lessons of Vietnam as, 'We should have stayed a decade longer.'"

Mr. Bush, who has rejected Iraq-Vietnam comparisons in the past, linked the U.S. pullout back then to the rise of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia. Foreign policy analysts took issue with this argument.

"The president emphasized the violence in the wake of American withdrawal from Vietnam. But this happened because the United States left too late, not too early," said Steven Simon, a Mideast expert at the Council on Foreign Relations. "It was the expansion of the war that opened the door to (Khmer Rouge leader) Pol Pot and the genocide of the Khmer Rouge. The longer you stay, the worse it gets."

[infidel_us]

Of course they do. Their communists are just like our communists in congress. Can''t scoff at history. It is what it is.

[lucious9]

As a point of fact; weren''t Air America advisors aiding and arming the Khymer Rouge in Thai refugee camps in the late ''70''s. Only after the vietnamese takeover did the killing fields stop.

[grazinggoat]

like many others who said this is an idiotic comparison, Walking-Liar once again showed clearly he''s as clownesque as an brain-damaged ex-alcoholic immature president can be! Georges, it''s a NO GO with the American people, no more!

-The least you can do to preserve some dignity, is to resign. Leave Iraq, bring the troops home, they are needed here, among their family. Iraqi will no hate more you for that. They are already at their maximum sentiments toward you.

[vet999999]

"The only way to restore order in Iraq is for the United States to leave, said Trinh Xuan Thang, a university student."

By god, we finally found an expert.

[one_american]

To the Bush-bashers and anti-troop crowd:

You are losing your war against America.

Even your liberal Democrat leaders are changing their positions on the war.

Hillary Clinton says that the surge tactics are "working"; it%u2019s just a matter of days before more Democrats subtly, yet rapidly, change their position on progress of the surge.

Democrats already know that the Petraeus Report in September will without a doubt show all the real accomplishments that the liberal media has been hiding from the public. And, unlike the liberal press who simply spin news, or lie by omission of fact, Petraeus will have solid, unambiguous proof of the real progress on the ground, and of how the surge has made reconciliation in Iraq possible.

What I expect will happen after the report will be a groundswell of anger of Americans - Democrats, Republicans and Independents - against the liberal media and the anti-troop liberal activists for hiding and distorting the truth.

And your whining and seething will stop none of it - you%u2019ll just be a casualty of the crossfire, and the surge will simply continue until complete success in Iraq is achieved.

Nobody, especially me, is expecting you to change your position on the war; however, don''t think about blaming anyone but yourselves when you suddenly and permanently become the pariahs of society...it%u2019s a label you will have earned many time over, and will stick with you for a lifetime, and will be the embarrassment of your children.

[pepperp1]

Doesn''t he realize that if the U.S. had stayed in Vietnam longer, they would have killed more people?" said Vu Huy Trieu of Hanoi, a veteran

No nor does he care, stop projecting Bush may be an absent President but his speech writers are hard ball political experts.

This is blackmail an amoral threat to Congress and the American People that if we tell Bush NO, he will unleash the killing fields through a passive destructive not my fault self fulfilling predetermination of destruction..

Many will die but any military action this Commander in Chief has conducted has failed and in disengaging he has absolutely no political will or incentive to minimize the lose of life, in fact the opposite would have political impacts ..

Bush can not be trusted to extract our military from his mess in Iraq responsibly and safely;

Surely through either incompetence feigned incompetence or intent people would be slaughtered under his watch.

Congress needs to wait for our new President and her selections as Commander of the new Military Leadership that can effect a responsible disengagement of the military forces in Iraq and who have no design on the need for failure and blood.

[johnshaft4]

"Pol Pot Bush" has murdered 76,771 innocent Iraqi men, women and children (collateral damage).

By prolonging the inevitable reunification of N/S Viet Nam, indeed the US killed more civilians there.

By prolonging the INEVITABLE unification of Iraqi and Iranian Shiites, history will repeat itself.

[andrew_693]

The only conclusion about Vietnam Bush should have come up with is that had the US stayed longer in Vietnam that would have meant more deferments for Cheney and more time under daddy''s desk and falsifying service records for him. Either way, this war mongering coward, from the mouth out anybody is tough but when the sh''''t hit the fan, people some serve and some ask for deferments.

[inventagod]

The entire world scoffs at anything Bu$h says.

But it''s not funny.
He is truly a psychopath, a drug-addled liar.

Only one person''s opinion, and I never voted for him.

[johnshaft4]

Psycho Georgie why not spray tons of Agent Orange up and down the fertile Tigris and Euphrates river valleys to compliment your Viet Nam delusion? This will also dovetail with your "improvements" to Iraqi civilian infrastructure. The Bush administration is comprised of war criminals.

[mcv57]

I think Bush is trying to cover and justify the Iraq occupation as a Vietnam so that he can get war critics of his back. The Bushwacker couldn''t care less of his own troops, much less the Iraqi people. His LIES are getting BIGGER by the day.

I do not claim the Bush family as my national leaders. He is teasonist, and so are the govenmental checks and balances (GOP and Demcrats impotent action).

I recognize George W. Bush as a corrupt political opportunitist who has created a regime (White House Staff and U. S. Supreme Court) that has undone everything that this country has fought and died for, justice and freedom. What is more horrifying is that Bush did this in the name of GREED.

[cybervigilante]

Hmm, and what about the discredited Domino Theory? The reason we had to stay was that all of SE Asia would fall to Communism, and America would lose face. Neither thing happened. And, if we leave Iraq, all of the Middle East will fall to Al Quaida and we''ll lose face. Sure, play it again, Sam. Bush and co are lucky the public has such a bad memory for well-worn lies. Wait until he creates another Gulf of Tonkin as a pretext for invading Iran. Too bad the wussy Deadocrats won''t stand up to him.

[cybervigilante]

How is it that the "liberal" press were in Total support of the drummed up war on Iraq, which had no WMDs and no Al Quada connection. That info was out there - I saw it - but the "liberal" press ignored it. What a crock. The press is Corporate and corporations supported Bush, especially Halliburton and Bechtel, which are making billions out of this war.

And what about that precious gigabillion no-bid contract for Cheney''s Halliburton? Transparent corruption. And even after the are caught cheating the govt of millions in war profiteering they get to keep the contract. What a bunch of tawdry bums and ****** this Administration of dunces and crooks is. Hillary is an idiot, too. She thinks insurance companies should still run health care after their utter failure in that regard. All that''s working is the mouths of liars and frauds.

[cybervigilante]

Hmm, Bush is going to re-fight the Vietnam war. Just like Southerners elected him to re-fight the civil war.

Personally, I think the solution to the problems of America, given how many rotten politicians have come from there, is to give Texas back to Mexico.

[johnshaft4]

With his "Vietraq" analogy, our Christian Leader is setting the stage for an attack on Iran. Like Nixon blamed Laos/Cambodia and invaded, our Commander blames the Iranian Rev. Guards as his new terrorist bogeymen, solely responsible for HIS failures. Here it comes...

[kyrockbkgold]

The lying North Vietnamese negotiated an end to the war after Americans took the gloves off and FINALLY started bombing Hanoi proper after 15 years of picking outhouses as targets in order to save civilian lives.

The Communists agreed to let the people of South Viet Nam determine their own destiny and not to invade the South. Both they and the U.S. Congress failed to keep their promises. I''m glad President Ford tried to help the South Vietnamese while the rest of the world did nothing.

[kyrockbkgold]

If so many Americans don''t like President Bush then why is America celebrating President Abraham Lincoln''s birthday in 2008? Lincoln did far worse than George W. Bush ever did. Democracy survived Lincoln''s assaults on the Constitution but the nation is not the same any more because the central government in Washington, D.C. is stronger than the rest of the states.

[incog-nito]

KyRockBkGold: "Lying North Vietnamese"? You are extremely naive. Do you really think that any enemy will be truthful to you? The fact is, the U.S. caved in to the Chinese and abandoned North Vietnam, just like it abandoned North Korea. Unlike Korea, we also abandoned the South. This is looking more and more like an American tradition, abandoning allies and losing wars.

[kyrockbkgold]

When the last American helicopters left South Viet Nam, U.S. troops had been gone for TWO YEARS. So tell me again that the Communists ran us out of South Viet Nam. The small embassy staff, U.S. Marines mostly, and the Navy helped evacuate thousands of South Vietnamese before the Communists overran Saigon.

[incog-nito]

The communists did not run the U.S. out of VN. We just got a two-year headstart.

[cdfoxtrot]

Glad to see the Vietnamese weigh in. As others have said, the lesson of Vietnam is to get out of Iraq now. The lesson of Vietnam is it initially went through a troubled period after the Americans were kicked out, but then peace broke out, and prosperity ensued. Today it is a friend to the US, despite the terrible atrocities committed by US forces there.

[kyrockbkgold]

"Doesn''t he realize that if the U.S. had stayed in Vietnam longer, they would have killed more people?" said Vu Huy Trieu of Hanoi...

----------

After South Viet Nam fell, unknown numbers of South Vietnamese were killed by the Communists. A million or more Cambodians were killed by Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge. So what''s the difference!

[kyrockbkgold]

"Hell, we kept giving back everything we won there before we even won it. Take a hill, get 50 or 60 of our guys killed and leave before the smoke cleared."

---------

Why in heck hold onto a hilltop in the middle of the jungle? Viet Nam was not the typical war Americans are accustomed to fighting. The only time we fought the Communists in the cities was during their Tet offensive in 1968 and we kicked their butts! Mostly, they set booby traps like the so-called "insurgents" are doing in Iraq. The Communists rarely fought us like the Germans did in WW2, head-on.

[kyrockbkgold]

incog-nito --

No, I''m not naive. But the American people are. Congress negotiated an end to the Vietnam War and guaranteed that America would help the South Vietnamese if the North Vietnamese invaded the South again. President Ky knew the whole treaty was a bunch of b.s. when it was signed. As history would later prove, so were the promises of the United States Congress.

[j-whitman]

KyRockBkGold,,,, Launching the Viet Nam War created the condition for the Khmer Rouge to start their genocide --
--- Iraq War created the condition for Arab Sunni''s, & Al Queda to start thiers --------- Of course Bush didn''t mention that part.

[kyrockbkgold]

JohnShaft4 --

Nothing in war is inevitable.

[kyrockbkgold]

j-whitman --

Hamstringing our armed forces creates the conditions for these atrocities to be committed. When President Nixon allowed American forces to pursue the Communists in their lairs in Cambodia, the uproar by the anti-war factions was deafening. But not a peep was heard from the anti-war bunch when the Khmer Rouge slaughtered Cambodians by the tens of thousands.

[incog-nito]

KyRockBkGold: That agreement was a sellout that gave the North the time to reconstitute its strength to attack another day. Either you fight to win, or not go in at all. Half-hearted efforts don''t work and just cause more bloodshed.

[kyrockbkgold]

Darfur, Darfur, that''s all I hear. The Khmer Rouge murdered a million or more Cambodians and the U.S. did nothing. Why do Americans think that the U.S. will get involved in Darfur?

[kyrockbkgold]

incog-nito --

I agree. Finish what you start. Congress voted for this war and we cannot pull out now no matter what happens. The British fought the Irish Republican Army for 30 years or so before ending the terrorism there.

[kyrockbkgold]

ainttaken --

The same line of thinking could be applied to World War Two. Germany didn''t bomb Pearl Harbor so we didn''t have any business fighting the Nazi Germans.

[kyrockbkgold]

To the anti-war bunch --

You and your kids don''t fight our wars. You and your friends weren''t in harm''s way back then and your kids are not in danger of dying in Iraq now. You hid out on some college campus and protested against the Viet Nam War until you finally convinced the American public we were losing the war. America won the battles in South Viet Nam and lost the war on the streets of America.

[j-whitman]

KyRockBkGold,,,, You''re right most were not there,,,, I was submerged somewhere off the coast ---
-- Now Bush has sold our Brave & left behind in Viet Nam to the very same communism you we fought to stop.

[incog-nito]

KyRockBkGold: LOL. You are naive. The US didn''t have a goal in VN just as it does not now in Iraq. Doesn''t even know what constitutes "victory". BTW, stop blaming the "antiwar" crowd. Nixon knew that VN was a lost cause and campaigned on an "honorable exit". Also, unlike the South Vietnamese, almost nobody in Iraq asked us to be there, and most want us to leave. Rest assured, when this is all over the Bushies will always have somebody to blame other than themselves.

[kyrockbkgold]

You don''t know what you''re talking about when you say the U.s. was losing the Viet Nam War. I walked around Da Nang by MYSELF with only an M-16 for protection. How many G.I.s will do the same in Iraq? My friend and I went on a bus tour of Da Nang and ate a fancy meal on a restaurant on a boat docked alongside the river. I visited a Catholic church in Da Nang and I still have a photograph of the moment.

[incog-nito]

KyRockBkGold: Just listen to the Nixon recordings that are available to the public. I will say no more.

[kyrockbkgold]

If a president who never fought in a war doesn''t measure up to your ideal of a good president then why is senator Hillary Clinton a favorite of the Democrats.

[kyrockbkgold]

incog-nito --

Just read the Paris Peace Accords of 1973 - which is online. I rest my case.

[kyrockbkgold]

President Bush is right about pulling out of the Viet Nam War damaging our credibility. If we do the same in Iraq, then we might as well pull all of our armed forces back to the United States and deactivate them all because we will not fight a war to its conclusion anymore.

[j-whitman]

KyRockBkGold,,,, Come off it,,, Bush hasn''t been right on 1 damm thing on Iraq & you know it.

[j-whitman]

KyRockBkGold,,,,, You aren''t even a Viet Nam vet,,, You aren''t old enough... LYING IS NOT A GOOD CHRISTIAN VIRTUE NOW IS IT ????

YOU WANT TO READ SOMETHING REAL ???? READ FOREIGN POLICY MAGAZINE -- EVERY DIPLOMAT & EXPERIANCE FOREIGN POLICY EXPERT HAS ONE ON THIER TABLE ------- BUSH IS LOSING THE WAR ON TERROR
AND THEY WILL NOT FOLLOW US HOME

[cyberbare1]

I don''t know what scares me more. The thought of this cerebrally destitute dogmatist being in the Whitehouse. Or the thought that so many unperceptive voters put him there ... NOT once, but twice. YIKES!!!!!!

[brianbwb-2009]

Amazing, that before we started murdering Iraqis, Bush vehemently and consistently denied any similarities of comparison to Vietnam, or the "quagmire" we got ourselves into back then, now he is quoting the very similarities he formerly denied, to justify sinking deeper into the "quagmire".

Also, I find it interesting that I have asked pro war posters on several topics here to define "victory", or how "the surge is working", or even what are the signs that they consider appropriate for the US to end this madness, and bring our children home.

So far, none of them have given even so much as a poor answer.

[brianbwb-2009]

"wonder if he knows how to spell diplomacy, god I wish somebody would duct tape his mouth.
Posted by rharrin1"

and his nose.

[karlimhof]

"The price we, the Vietnamese people on both sides, paid during the war was due to the fact that the Americans went into Vietnam in the first place," Ninh said.


That''s the lesson of Vietnam -

THE MISUSE OF AMERICAN POWER FOR PURPOSES OF ECONOMIC, POLITICAL, OR MILITARISTIC :

D O M I N A T I O N

Our forefathers warned us against foreign entanglements, or adventures because they knew it is not in the interest of the American people. Confronting direct threats (real ones) is another matter.

Those "democratic imperialist" neocons whose philosophy rests on using our Nations military power to make the world in "their" image is wrong and has been proved wrong both in Nam and Iraq.

[whatithink-2009]

George Bush is the poster child for why religious fanatics should stay out of politics.

[truthspeake2]

This man, and his entire administration, is such a world embarrassment...

[formrusmcsgt]

"Mr. Bush''s comments drew criticism from politicians and historians who claimed he did not understand the lessons of the Vietnam War or was using the wrong historical lessons to sell our military''s continued presence in Iraq."

As Dubya was protected from putting his behind on the line where he could have actually learned something about Viet Nam, he had to rely on Cheney''s version of events which was written by the Swift Boaters.....

[meboard]

brianbwb: I have a freezer magnet that has a picture of bush with his mouth duct taped. It read, "Suggested use of duct tape as a means of increasing homeland security!"

[bobnjersey]

["Doesn''t he realize that if the U.S. had stayed in Vietnam longer, they would have killed more people?" said Vu Huy Trieu of Hanoi, a veteran of the communist forces that fought American troops in Vietnam. "Nobody regrets that the Vietnam War wasn''t prolonged except Bush." ]

interesting ... a universally worldwide understanding ... that bush is delusional.