Minister: Death To My Tax Status Critics

Calif. Clergyman Condemns Those Who Complained To IRS Criticizing His Political Endorsement Of Huckabee

(AP)  A California minister who used church stationery and an Internet radio program to endorse former Gov. Mike Huckabee for president is asking his followers to pray for the deaths of those who filed a complaint against him with the IRS.

The Rev. Wiley S. Drake of the First Southern Baptist Church of Buena Park, Calif., called for "imprecatory prayer" targeting Barry W. Lynn, Joe Conn and Jeremy Leaming of Americans United for Separation of Church and State.

"The prayer does call for serious, serious punishment on people. But I didn't call for that, God did," said Drake, a native of Magnolia who completed a term in June as second vice president of the Southern Baptist Convention.

Huckabee is a Southern Baptist minister.

The Americans United for Separation of Church and State asked the IRS to investigate whether it was proper for Drake to endorse Huckabee. Churches that endorse candidates are subject to losing their tax-exempt status.

Drake said in a telephone interview Thursday that neither he nor the church violated the law and insisted he could use church stationery and the Internet program to "personally" endorse a political candidate. He said the Bible calls for imprecatory prayer when someone "attacks the church."

On his Internet show, in a news release on ChristianNewsWire, and in an e-mail to Americans United, Drake called on others to pray that the Americans United officials be punished.

He gave as examples of imprecatory prayer:

"Persecute them. ... Let them be put to shame and perish."

"Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow."

"Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg."

Americans United, a nonpartisan group based in Washington, D.C., asked the Internal Revenue Service on Tuesday to investigate whether Drake violated federal law by endorsing the Republican candidate on church stationery Aug. 11 and on his Internet program Aug. 13.

In a letter to the IRS, the liberal group said the California church seemed to have "run afoul" of the tax law that bans political campaign involvement by nonprofit groups.

Nancy Mathis, a spokeswoman for the IRS, said Thursday the agency could not comment on matters regarding specific taxpayers. She also would not confirm whether the agency received the request.

Huckabee was campaigning out of state Thursday. Alice Stewart, a campaign spokeswoman, said the campaign did not coordinate with Drake on any of the material he's distributed regarding the Americans United complaint.

"We certainly don't condone the evil comments he's made," she said.

Lynn, executive director of Americans United and an ordained minister of the United Church of Christ, said in a telephone interview that the group had filed about 60 complaints with the IRS in the last 10 years. About half involved Republicans and the other half Democrats, he said.

"Many times, the candidates don't even know what's going on and repudiate it if it happens," Lynn said, adding that he had not spoken to Huckabee and didn't know if he was aware of the group's complaint.

Lynn said Americans United wasn't taking issue with Huckabee or his Iowa campaign manager, Eric Woolson, who appeared on Drake's radio show and promised to arrange an appearance by Huckabee at a later date.

Lynn said, "A prayer for death seems to be a little harsh just for trying to get the tax laws enforced equally and fairly."

Sing Oldham, a spokesman for the Southern Baptist Convention, said the group "exercises no ecclesiastical authority over any individual Baptist or any local church.

"Thus, any Baptist, as an individual, may make pronouncements which reflect his or her own thoughts," he said.

Oldham said the convention also has no record of having discussed or adopted any guidelines on imprecatory prayer. He said imprecatory prayer is mentioned in the Psalms when people called upon God to carry out punishment that they believed was God's to inflict.

[sgtrds]

"Persecute them... Let them be put to shame and perish."

Rev. Wiley S. Drake

At last the religious right wing exposes it''s ugly face. I thought Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson were bad, but this guy is the new poster child for being the most unChristian Christian in America.

On the bright side at least now we know what singingrick''s real name is.

;-)

[harp1963]

"Praise the Lord and burn crosses in your neighbors yards who don''t agree with you or look different, that is if you can''t lynch''em first."

This mentality must be a curse on the south for breeding human beings like horses and cows for generations.

[brianbwb-2009]

Ok, this clown was either too cheap to use his own stationary, and decided to steal the church''s in order to print his endorsement, or he wanted people to think that the church endorsed Huckabee, or the church really does endorse Huckabee.

None of these scenarios makes the church look like a proper church, and if I were Huckabee, I wouldn''t wait to see if it "blows over", I would call for a 5 year audit of the church, and an examination of the text on the stationary, to determine whether the church should lose its tax exempt status, otherwise, another candidacy bites the dust.

Actually, all churches should lose their tax exempt status, but that is another subject.

[cbs_oliver]

It sure seems like the Rev. Wiley S. Drake of the First Southern Baptist Church of Buena Park, Calif., is inciting terrorist activity and should be arrested.

While lots of people shoot their mouth off now and then and don''t really mean it, this fellow does mean it, and this type of appeal for murder or other harm should be prosecuted.

I don''t think that pretending to be a Christian should be proof against prosecution.

[seven-pesos]

bush loving, flag waving, bible thumping, war making, evangelist creeps and republican snakes.

the south never does good for america.

always war, hate, arrogance, belligerent, ignorant pieces of anti-american snakes.

the south should secede again...

i''m sure no one would stop them .

ha,ha,ha.

america''s getting a good look at you dixie snakes...

and they don''t like what they see.

nothing good comes out of the south.

[brianbwb-2009]

So what about it, Huck, where are you on this?

[zorlacskates]

wonder what the sermon topic is for sunday''s service: how islam preaches violence and death and must be stopped? how pro-choice advocates murder? how homosexuals are breaking down the fabric of civilized society? oh, and a really smart way of supporting your already fringe candidate, minister. should be smooth-sailing for huckabee now.

[toshi43]

What amazes me is that a lot of you people actually take these over-the-top religious nutballs seriously. Only in America, and please stay there, OK?

[ringading3]

My christian church forbids it''s clergy to run for any public office. I would never vote for any minister or clergyman who ran for any public office.

[brianbwb-2009]

Notice the slightly wall-eyed gentleman in the photo? Whoever he is is quite possibly on medication, like Valium, Quaalude, or Codeine, any of these depressants and relaxants frequently produces a wall-eyed, unfocused gaze in the user.

Testing, anyone?

[seven-pesos]

christian creeps got their man, bush, into the white house.

only natural that they think they can get their man, huckabee, into the whitehouse.

that''s how those scheming, hypocrite christian creeps operate.

war, hate, christians, republicans...

nothing good comes out of the south.

[jsilver2th]

oh the voice of moderation... sounds like iraq mentality is rubbing off on us- shame shame- i don''t blame huckabee he only backs eternal damnation- and in the name of Christ...

[ringading3]

And as a typical Southerner (The South Will Rise Again!) I am a registered DemonCrap, but admit that I voted for JFK and Carter, and saw the error of my ways! I now only vote for Republican candidates, and never vote for a minister or clergyman. Every religion should forbid their rabbi, minister, clergy, and iman from running for political office.

[zorlacskates]

canajan3, 3-4 years ago i would have agreed with you, but it''s now pretty apparent that we have to take these people seriously. look what they''ve gotten away with while the rest of us were telling ourselves that a bunch of religious nutjobs could never do any real damage. how wrong we were.

[seven-pesos]

not one southern state will vote for hillary...

guaranteed,
warranteed,
money back guarantee,
double your money back guarantee,
will kizz yo'' azz guarantee,
bet my life on it guarantee,
bet my wife on it guarantee,
bet my daughter''s virginity on it guarantee.

ha,ha,ha.

bush loving, southern, republican christian snakes...

nothing good comes out of the south.

[seven-pesos]

all the christians thought jimmy swaggart was a man of gawd...

until he got caught in a hohouse with a sk@nky ho.

then all the christians thought ted haggard was a man of gawd... until he got caught doing meth with his homosexual lover...

then all the christians elected and supported republican senator vitter, ''til his name showed up on a ho'' house guest list.

my gawd... what''s a christian to think?

ha,ha,ha.

ho''s, drugs and redemption...

christians get off on that *****, huh, christians?

war, hate, evil christian snakes...

nothing good comes out of the south!

[usayesterday]

KNOW RELIGION... NO PEACE.

NO RELIGION... KNOW PEACE!

[dumndumer1]

robertkjjj, I don''t know what a ''liberal brain-dead death-worshipper is. Seems to me that a believer in a fairy tale religion is more of a death-worshipper than your average liberal (not that all liberals are atheists). But yea, the Muslim Jihadists are just as bad as the Christians and Jews. Thats the trouble with ''faith'' and revelation as knowledge, anybody''s brain-dead beliefs are immune to reason.

[toldyouso21]

In all of his supposedly biblical teachings, Drake fails to remember the tenet of Jesus himself concerning God''s law and Man made law. When questioned on this very subject, Christ stated that unless a manmade law conflicted with what God said in his commandments must be done, that followers were to submit to the rule of man''s law.

Scripture never stated that Churches were to try to intefere into wordly business or to become so grounded and invested in this earth that they took on the mantle of trying to remake the world.

In fact, in Ephesians scripture states that Christians are not to conform to the world at all, but they are to be transformedby the renewing of their minds.

Drake--Jesus said to render unto Cesaer what is Cesaers (his reply on the issue of law and taxes) when you break the law, you pay the price and stop thinking YOU are the church--you are not--the Church is the entire Christian body that actually upholds Christ''s teachings, the "church" is never a single man. Churches are trying to become to powerful and too involved in trying to take over and remake as to punishments...better go back and re-read scripture and this time don''t cherry pick. someone will indeed be punished for overstepping themselves--but I seriously doubt it will be people who uphold the law.

[djconklin]

"NO RELIGION... KNOW PEACE!"

Actually, no one cannot have a religion. Your religion is simply your value system of reality. Collect ab''t 250 definitions of religion and you''ll see.

[pepperp1]

This is an excellent sample of the new Repug fringe sect voter and what is clearly the new paid for voter paid for with anit social rhetoric by Party leaders and operatives.. They have essentially rounded up and brought into the fold legitimizing and giving voice to the fringe anti American mentally ill in this country with clear anti social personality disorders and tendencies. This wing nut and by the way that is a Terrorist Thereat he has made and can be charged criminally. Check out those fox noise shows Hannity,Evangelicals the hate they spew. Just like that geezer McCain who was schocked shocked that he received threats many threats from the base on the Immigration issue, guess what you people have rounded up the comet chaser who flock to religious sect that appear to be legit, and the operative owrd is appear they are cults and you have the cultist.

You reap what you sow, take a sociology class 100 and you would know, Whoops forgot you do not accept science no wonder..

Look when this guy called Micahel Moore fat in and interview, and turst me I could care less about Moore, butyou knwo that is code hate talk, a true man of god a statesman would not attack another about a physical flaw.

Look when this guy Huch alled Michael Moore fat in and interview, and trust me I could care less about Moore, but you know that is code hate talk, a true man of god a Statesman would not attack another about a physical flaw, ever in public.

[samrensho]

I love these religious looney tunes.

[mediabrat60]

It''s just plain frightening when people try to manipulate the Word to justify their behavior.

[starleo146]

well Pesos the south will certainly vote for this guy. How many southern Baptist in the south?

[toldyouso21]

RingADing3 at 02:34 AM : Aug 18, 2007

Why should an imam, rabbi, minister or clergy even bother to run for office, when they can handpick and token and have sheep like you vote for them anyway, simply by "preaching" about who the right candidate is in the pulpit?

You might want to stop picking candidates by party and start picking them by what they do, not what they say--lest you AND your Pastor AND your church be misled. YOu can start by understanding scripture for yourself.

Since scripture say those that are liars have their true father in Satan...you might want to rethink your choices. And since Christ said we are to forgive our enemies, 70 X seven, turn the other cheek and treat them with kindness (which is like heaping coals upon their heads) you may want to rethink any candidate that endorses torture, wars and lies to win or stay in power.
And finally, a liar has no qualms about calling themselves Christians just to fool those who are not really grounded in faith. The bible says in the last days many of the elect will be fooled and fall away--so maybe people like you are just fulfilling scripture..but..."By their fruits, you will know them" this means that the actions of people will tell who they really are.

Remember that the next time your Republican or Democrat leaders LIE to you, want to torture, kill people based on lies and will not obey the law.

[itgranny]

robertkjjj: "Muslim Jihadists are killing thousands of people every week, worldwide. Week after week after week. It goes on forever, and not a PEEP from the liberal brain-dead death-worshippers on these CBS forums."

Perhaps the reason for there being so many of the muslim Jihadists is because they don''t have enough mouthy liberals in their religion to keep their crazy ideas from far out leaders in check. This Drake guy is teaching hate, just like some of the muslim clerics. The difference is, we''re calling this guy out and revealing him as a crazy. When the muslim religion starts doing the same, things will settle down in their religion too.

[johnshaft4]

A true Christian along the likes of George Bush, Tom DeLay, Pat Robertson, Dobson...

[toldyouso21]

It is most important for you to understand what will happen in the last days. People will laugh at you. They will live doing the evil things they want to do. Posted by shammock112 at 09:26 AM : Aug 18, 2007

And Christians should not forget one of the most horrible signs for them of the last days--that many shall be fooled or misled and by their being fooled, cause many more to fall away from the Church. Then the Church will be reviled soooo much that those who still belong will be persecuted and hunted.

Consider that some Christians are fulfilling scripture by becoming so involved in politics that destroy people (like illegal wars and torture) that it will not be hard to see how later, much of the world will hate them and wish them finished as a group). How blind many so called Christians are--and how disobedient... because they fail to come to God and learn of him for themselves--instead they expect a pastor to spoonfeed them. But what exactly does any one pastor put on that spoon. Could be meat, or maybe pablum or maybe arsenic or blasphemy--the unlearned Christian would never know but would eat up without question.

[starleo146]

Posted by toldyouso21 at 09:23 AM : Aug 18, 2007

Read your post with great interest and all I can say is I am so glad you are back. I almost couldn''t post today even though I showed logged in wouldn''t take my post had to go to cbs for recognition.Something is going on but I reported all I''ve seen.

[starleo146]

Posted by JohnShaft4 at 09:38 AM : Aug 18, 2007

Don''t forget Ted Haggard and Swaggart and Fallwell etc. etc.All so precious in the eyes of the Lord Right? Yea Right.

[dhadaway]

Why is it that Obama, Hilary, John Kerry, Al Gore, campaign in churces and these so called church state watchdogs lay silent?

Well, duh, we all know why. Because they are partisan hacks and want to silence conservative voices!

I don''t care whether you are a church, mosque, jew, daycare, healthcare, whatever your organization is, don''t let anybody tell you to shut up. Nobody. They can threaten your tax status, certainly. But if you truly believe in what you are saying, then say it. The liberals are soooo good at defending free speech, yet demand that conservatives gag themselves. News for you left wingers--we are not going to shut up, so deal with it.

[starleo146]

Posted by SgtRDS at 12:11 AM : Aug 18, 2007

HI SARGE GOT A KICK OUT OF YOUR POST THIS MORNING. i KNEW THIS GUY WOULD BRING THEM OUT NO SINGINRICK YET she might be having the same problem I am having . what is going on. crazy

[my2centss]

I cannot believe how many posts think that California is a southern state.

[klingon69]

not one southern state will vote for hillary...
What, not even Arkansas, she helped them so much when she and Bill were there.

will kizz yo'''' azz guarantee,
Ain''t letting you get that close

bet my life on it guarantee,
Now there''s an option

bet my wife on it guarantee,
If she''s married to you, no decent man would want her.

bet my daughter''''s virginity on it guarantee.
Yeah, right, with you as daddy. Sure she is.
ha,ha,ha.

nothing good comes out of the south.
Posted by seven-pesos at 02:39 AM : Aug 18, 2007
Actually that should read : Nothing good comes out of 7-pissant''s mouth.

[donnie900]

One day I''m going to laugh at a republican joke. Just not fer a long time yet..

[klingon69]

You reap what you sow, take a sociology class 100 and you would know, Whoops forgot you do not accept science no wonder..
I took 2 sociology courses in college, the only thing I really remember is according to the teacher, all men were wrong and women were right. All the evils in the world that are visited upon women come from men. Basically the same drivel that TruProgress spews forth on here.

Look when this guy called Micahel Moore fat in and interview, and turst me I could care less about Moore, butyou knwo that is code hate talk, a true man of god a statesman would not attack another about a physical flaw.
But, Michael Moore is fat.

Posted by pepperp1 at 09:29 AM : Aug 18, 2007

[donnie900]

wrote thunder thighs a bochman''s note say''n: "Don''t come look''n again, my wife gits jealous".

[usayesterday]

-the unlearned Christian would never know but would eat up without question.
Posted by toldyouso21 at 09:44 AM : Aug 18, 2007
...........

Your post is so accurate.

It goes to one of my sayings:

"Religion without education is very dangerous for humanity."

It has been proven time and time and time again. And it is always proven when a clergy, (as you described), only allows their faith to be spoonfed to them by a pastor (or whatever religious leader). And that religious leader could very well be feeding his clergy poison...

...figuratively or even literally!

[donnie900]

You people have changed separation of church and state into licensed inspirations.

Don''t need no license fer inspirations pal. And don''t need yer advise neither.

[klingon69]

A true Christian along the likes of George Bush, Tom DeLay, Pat Robertson, Dobson...
Posted by JohnShaft4 at 09:38 AM : Aug 18, 2007
I doubt any of those named or this "minister" are truly men of GOD. Never have trusted tele-evangelists, politicians.

[donnie900]

You let people believe what they wanna believe witout so much as a whine from dat crack in yer face you call a mouth, jack.. or you''ll always lose every war you fight but de loser one..

[bigsk8fan]

I don''t see much difference between this Baptist calling for god to punish his critics and the militant arabs who make the same types of claims.

[usayesterday]

I often wonder about some of the "rules" that these various sects of the Christian faith put on their clergy.

I believe that Southern Baptists do not allow dancing. Again, I don''t understand why, but it probably has something to do with ''movements of the devil'', or some krap like that.

Well, that''s just fine...


...because having a bunch of old white men dancing is surely an abomination in any sense!

[donnie900]

Guess everybody where you come from is ikabob crane.

[fredegrar]

"Why is it that Obama, Hilary, John Kerry, Al Gore, campaign in churces and these so called church state watchdogs lay silent?

Well, duh, we all know why. Because they are partisan hacks and want to silence conservative voices!"

Posted by dhadaway at 10:00 AM : Aug 18, 2007

Did you read this paragraph in the article:
"Lynn, executive director of Americans United and an ordained minister of the United Church of Christ, said in a telephone interview that the group had filed about 60 complaints with the IRS in the last 10 years. About half involved Republicans and the other half Democrats, he said."

Besides that, campaigning in the churches isn''t what the complaint is about - endorsement of specific candidates by church hierarchy is the issue. Said hierarchy can make whatever statements they wish, but not as representatives of their tax-exempt religious organizations. Separation of Church and state is NOT a liberal issue anyway. It''s just as much in the interests of conservatives to maintain it as it is the liberals. If this were not the case, there wouldn''t be any separation in the first place.

[donnie900]

Now I''m not so against no more taxing churches who wanna use my government as a bully pulpit. Everybody gits taxed. So why not them?

We should tax the eevangelicals. And every other church who wants to be represented in my government. Until such day comes when taxes are gone fer everybody.

[starleo146]

UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL. Thats all

[toolmangler-2009]

This guy is either mistaken or a LIAR! my GOD would not have you or anyone do that (pray for death of someone other than yourself)

[donnie900]

Fella just gits too fulla hisself stand''n up on dem der stages, all those people cry''n at him: "Praise the Lord!" He just gets a little sick in de senses, see.. starts think''n he can do things other people can''t. And thats one of the primary roles of a government. To make dog gone sure everybody''s treated fairly.

Taxes for everybody else? Taxes fer them too.

[donnie900]

Ask quazzi motto about dem der priests think''n they can do stuff others can''t. He knows.. He''s seen it prit near every day. Heck, dey even git to think''n they can wear nylons and garter belts..