Are Gang Members Using Military Training?

Military Police Have Briefed Local Police That Troops Could Be Sharing Their Skills

(CBS)  Like most American cities, Columbia, South Carolina, has its share of problems, but nothing prepared the Sheriff Leon Lott for what his department discovered last August.

Four U.S. Marines – who proudly snapped pictures of each other – were recruiting local kids, some as young as 13, into the Crips street gang. The leader was a lance corporal.

"We have enough problems with local kids and what they are doing," Lott, the Richland County Sheriff, said. "But to have the Marines – someone who is trained – to come up here and recruit and give them the training they've had in the military, it scares me to death cause it tells me we're at war with these gangs."

It's a concern also raised by the FBI. In a recent report the agency warned: "Military training could ultimately result in more sophisticated and deadly gangs ... as well deadly assaults on law enforcement officers."

CBS News has learned that military police have briefed local authorities in major cities, including New York, about the rising danger that gang members in the military could share their skills with gangs on the streets. That could include combat, logistics, and even emergency medical skills.

"We heard about it in other places," Lott said. "We didn't think Columbia, South Carolina would be a place where the military would have influence on our gangs, but we had it."

Army investigators tell CBS News that there is absolutely no evidence that soldiers are using their combat training in gang activity, nor proof that gangs are sending members into the military to learn such skills. They insist the threat is low.

"We're not seeing this in this particular time – we're just not," said Colonel Gene Smith of the U.S. Army's Office of the Provost Marshal. "It's just a theory."

But there was an incident in which a disturbed Marine used his training to kill two policemen. In January, 2005, the Marine, who police say was associated with the Norteno street gang, shot to death two policeman outside a convenience store in Ceres, California.

Surveillance video shows him using a technique marines call "cutting the pie" – instead of cowering, he boldly attacks.

"Gangs are gaining strength across the United States," said Hunter Glass, a retired police detective who tracks gangs. "The numbers are increasing like crazy around the U.S. and adding this extra fuel is just not going to help matters."

---

Part One: Gangs Spreading In The U.S. Military

---

The House of Representatives has passed legislation prohibiting service members from associating with street gangs. A Senate could vote could come next month. But there are also calls to raise enlistment standards, which have slipped to such an extent that one in 10 new army recruits has a criminal record.

"We were able in the 80's and into the 90's to say, 'you have to be special to serve your country because this is difficult work'," said Lawrence Korb, a former Assistant Secretary of Defense. "But now we are saying, 'we are so desperate for people, we are going to take anybody as long as you can walk through the door'."

A short term solution for the military and a future problem, some say, for police departments in their war against street gangs.

[tnt1954]

nowhere to run, nowhere to hide. dr. jekyll
could not cure mr. hyde, no matter how hard
he tried.

[savdavid]

Big thanks to Bush for this development. We are letting criminals into the military to fight a pointless and amoral war no one with brains will have anything to do with.

[nvhc]

I cannot believe that the Army is willing to completely ignore and deny the possibility of this especially when an individual was killed in a gang initiation in Germany after being discharged just a few days ago. This General that is making this careless statement needs to set aside his arrogance and take this threat as seriously as the threat of terrorism to this country.

[jjarden]

Very Simple...Put the word out that if you are caught as a member of a gang, you will go Leavenworth for LIFE...If you murdered someone, you will be Executed by a Firing Squad. What is the Problem People?...There IS NO Problem when the RIGHT CONSEQUENCES are put in place.

[nvhc]

jjarden:

You are exactly right! Unfortunately the liberals have taken those consequences out of the equation decades ago. Consider that they are putting American troops in prison for shooting back in the middle of a war zone! Yet they allow rapists' and child molestors' to roam free on the streets after enabling the actions of those animals by who picked on them in grade school, or how mean their parents were to them. It is sickening! Just think what it will be like if Clinton or any of those other left wing freaks gets elected next year!

[braceday]

Again, this has been going on forever. I was in the military. It's just precious white people always figure this stuff out late. There have been gangs in the military since before MS13 got worldwide. It was overlooked because at the time, those in power thought they could control it. However, the military is not as selective a process as you think, and nor is the training. I'd be more concerned if one of those gang leaders picked up a tactician's book. Then you'd have a problem.

[rafterman1]

===Just think what it will be like if Clinton or any of those other left wing freaks gets elected next year!===

Well, we already have seen the disaster that right wing freaks having control have unleashed upon us. It can't possibly be worse than Bush and company. Conservatives have unleashed a wave of dishonor upon our country that will take years to fix.

[braceday]

And Leavenworth is a joke. You are talking about people willing to give their life for a scarf. What makes you think jail is really going to prevent anything? Again, not thinking like the problem-makers. The only way to fully disperse is to integrate it into the mil culture. You already have them in a ready to die state of mind. Put them on front line. And don't blame any politician, because most of them are from suburbia so they are not prepared for any of this on any level. You just assume because one takes one side that he/she is? Doubtful.

[l8c6]

You are exactly right! Unfortunately the liberals have taken those consequences out of the equation decades ago. Consider that they are putting American troops in prison for shooting back in the middle of a war zone! Yet they allow rapists' and child molestors' to roam free on the streets after enabling the actions of those animals by who picked on them in grade school, or how mean their parents were to them. It is sickening! Just think what it will be like if Clinton or any of those other left wing freaks gets elected next year!
Posted by nvhc

I can't help it...this is the chatter of a nut....this is the nut talkin' nutsense that has harmed MY country you pile of feces. It's been right wing fascists in power for the past 25 years nut head!!

[michellem99-2009]

snideglass.true.
Now lay yer paw on that there reader
Now report to where yer to go
Just do as yer told
No whining as you belong to the state
Poor Dr Jekyl could not see today.
Yet he was lucky he didn't
The good Doc had a sidekick
Oh yes Mr Hyde
Eeah so differebt from nite and day
One was good and the other bad.
So Doc he could not help Mr Hyde.
Why my dear they are the same person.
So there is a new one today.
Just becareful as he here

[standlee5]

Don't blacks have anything better to do in this day and age of equal opportunity. This is what their grandparents and great grandparents fought for?

[rafterman1]

===I can't help it...this is the chatter of a nut....this is the nut talkin' nutsense that has harmed MY country you pile of feces. It's been right wing fascists in power for the past 25 years nut head!!===

As was already pointed out, there have always been gangs in the military, but since Bush has driven our military into the ground, forcing them to lower standards, the problem is even worse.

[loveliberty]

The first thing that comes to mind after reading this article, and the comments is; These military trained gangs are the USA's version of Al Qaeda and Taliban radicals.

[mrhoppy-2009]

Bush is the leader of the biggest gang on Earth and he didn't learn it in the military, he after all is a deserter along with draft dodger Cheney. (A man so heartless he needs a pacemaker to stay alive and he even killed the battery on that!)

The biggest most violent gang on Earth, are the people that kill more people through violence on Earth, and that is the US military and the merchants of death.

Bushes grandfather Prescott, was the person in charge of awarding military contracts during WWII and he lost his personal assets in 1942 under the Trading With The Enemies Act for giving IG Farben 100M to build 5 death camps in Germany.

So nothing has changed, the sheeple still get murdered by this virus on humanity and your congress, which are blackmailed and bought by the same people responsible should be held accountable.

Who is this invisible hand that earns TRILLIONS killing the innocents? They are the Ashkenazi Jews from Germany and Poland which have taken control of the US government on behalf of Israel. (The same people that did 911 and then blamed it on the innocents in Iraq.)

They have complete contempt for Americas uneducated masses that serve in the military and can't kill enough of them through war, mercury vaccines, aspartame, the war OF DRUGS and DEA.

What are you going to do about it rednecks? Nothing because you are all cowards and you know it.

[omega39-2009]

I can't help it...this is the chatter of a nut....this is the nut talkin' nutsense
Posted by l8c6

ROFLMAO!! Too funny!

[rafterman1]

===This is perhaps the most pointless newsless sensationalist story I have seen CBS post recently, and they've been running a pretty hard record of useless tripe....Another bit of useless bleating from CBS===

This may come as a shock to you, but many, if not most, Americans are probably surprised by this news story. It is certainly not "bleating" to make people aware of it. The only ones who think this is tripe are Bush supporters, who will go to any lengths to protect their boy. And make no mistake, Bush's abuse of the military has made this problem even worse.

[xzavierbrown]

well..if we dont then we would have the very same people whinning now that we dont take ni ggers because they are ni ggers in the military.
WE dont need more laws or whatever, we just need to implement what we have.
If they are a gangmember and they harm or kill anybody, then we should deal with them accordingly instead of listening to morons like al shaprton and jessie jackson

[mh4cbs1]

CULTURE OF WAR

CULTURE OF HATE

CULTURE OF REVENGE

CULTURE OF GREED

This is the American culture most recently catapulted to a new level by BUSH and CHENEY. How can we NOT expect gangs to thrive, when the example is set by the leaders at the top.

Consider instead....

CULTURE OF PEACE

CULTURE OF ECONOMIC JUSTICE

CULTURE OF COMPASSION

CULTURE OF A SUSTAINABLE ECONOMY

We would care about our fellow citizens, all would have health care without charge or bankruptcy. All would have free college tuition. Schools would all have strong liberal arts in addition to "math and science". The billionaires would not have a LOWER tax rate than average wage earners (which IS the case today).

We need a transformation of this society. VOTE OUT the Republicrats who gave us needless war ($500 BILLION), bloated Cold War military budgets - mre tha nall other nations combined, NAFTA sucking out our good jobs, huge tax cuts for the filthy rich...

ANOTHER WORLD IS POSSIBLE -- Green Party gp.org

[cyinzl8r]

Mr Hoppy, I see you managed to hit every paranoid conspiracy going. Good job my man, You wont just settle for the "Bush did it" line. You sir are a true nut case! Keep up the good work.

[stevex47]

Clinton left office with a surplus...think that Bush thanked him?

What will Bush say to the next guy....Sorry, I left you broke dude?

Where's seven pesos when you need him, ha

[stevex47]

I took us pretty far off topic. I apologize. Sorry.

[djmo1-2009]

mh4cbs1,

RE:

"CULTURE OF WAR"

"CULTURE OF HATE"

"CULTURE OF REVENGE"

"CULTURE OF GREED"

"This is the American culture most recently catapulted to a new level by BUSH and CHENEY. How can we NOT expect gangs to thrive, when the example is set by the leaders at the top."
Posted by mh4cbs1

Sorry, these are nothing new our culture has always been as such in varying degrees, recent times are seemingly worse though.

[incog-nito]

This is nothing new. Iraqi insurgents are joining the Iraqi army to get weapons and training. Same concept.

[samthetvcat]

Just thinking outside the box on this issue . . .

That first story about the guy who was just discharged who felt the need to join a gang - haven't there also been stories about the crappy job help soldiers are getting? Maybe instead of essentially booting our fine young vets to the curb as the pit stop to prison Bush ought to actually put his money where his mouth is and actually support the troops instead of giving them the 'Walter Reed' level of care.

This second story about active marines teaching what they've learned to gang members back in their old neighborhoods, maybe this says more about what it's like to live in these neighborhoods than the character of these soldiers . . . like haven't there been stories about how joining gangs is a survival mechanism where violence is rampant and opportunities are scarce? Maybe if kids saw the military as a viable alternative to the drug trade, gangs would lose some of their power and violence would go down . . . like maybe these marines recruiting gang members are role-modeling in a way that could go wrong, but with some refinement could be used to role-model in a way that would go right.

Guess it's the same basic message I'm always repeating - instead of writing these young men off as 'dangerous' and 'criminal' people should take a closer look to see whether there's potential as well . . . these are soldiers and veterans after all!

[tbweb]

Don't blacks have anything better to do in this day and age of equal opportunity. This is what their grandparents and great grandparents fought for?

Posted by standlee5 at 09:15 PM : Jul 29, 2007,,,

I hate racist, from all cultures, blacks, whites, it doesn't matter, with a passion. The retarded and stupid idea that a few bad seeds from any culture is an excuse to dis an entire culture is pure racism, and those who publicly spit this type of hate show just how uneducated they are.

[samthetvcat]

"one in 10 new army recruits has a criminal record"

Although if people are criminals before entering the service then yeah that's troublesome that they're being given combat and arms training only to be sharing that knowledge after they're discharged . . . it'd help to clarify the issue to know whether the soldiers involved in these incidents had criminal records.

Also, isn't the rise in crimes of all types being attributed to the fact that a good portion of the nation's police force are reservists who have been deployed to Iraq? This piece makes it sound like it's solely because of the proliferation of military knowledge into the inner city . . .

[dirtydog55]

Unfortunately the liberals...are putting American troops in prison for shooting back in the middle of a war zone! Yet they allow rapists' and child molestors' to roam free on the streets after enabling the actions of those animals by who picked on them in grade school, or how mean their parents were to them. It is sickening! Just think what it will be like if Clinton or any of those other left wing freaks gets elected next year!
Posted by nvhc at 08:16 PM : Jul 29, 2007


Well, let's analyze that statement. LOL!!! The military punishes its own. So you're saying the military is liberal? Bush has been in charge for over six years and these troops you are referring to were punished under his watch.

Bush's war also resulted in the lower standards for Army recruits, and ultimately pulling in more 'street gangsters.'

What will it be like is Clinton or any other democrapp is elected? It certainly can't get any worse.

LOL!!! Put your brain in gear before you turn your fingers loose on the keyboard.

[luigi999-2009]

Why is it that it's only blacks doing this ***? Why is it that these gangs are only black? No asian, white or other ethnic gangs. Is this where all the handouts and freebies the liberals have showered on these people has led us?

And blacks want respect?

Give me a break. Where are all the real black leaders?

[tbweb]

Why is it that it's only blacks doing this ***? Why is it that these gangs are only black? No asian, white or other ethnic gangs. Is this where all the handouts and freebies the liberals have showered on these people has led us?

And blacks want respect?

Give me a break. Where are all the real black leaders?

Posted by Luigi999 at 12:42 AM : Jul 30, 2007,,,

We have another one! I hate racist, from all cultures, blacks, whites, it doesn't matter, with a passion. The retarded and stupid idea that a few bad seeds from any culture is an excuse to dis an entire culture is pure racism, and those who publicly spit this type of hate show just how uneducated they are.

[dirtydog55]

Of COURSE if gang members leave the military they're going to remember, and hence use, their training. The military doesn't run you through a brain eraser to eliminate everything you've learned, and probably wouldn't be allowed too even if they could. Aside from which most basic and intermediate light infantry skills can be picked up by reading books and playing paintball, and studying both modern and classic texts on ground warfare. Another bit of useless bleating from CBS. Posted by clgl_fubar at 09:45 PM : Jul 29, 2007


Of course, you don't get it fubar, because you are FUBAR!! We're not just talking "light infantry skills" or ground warfare. The gangs are also using the same strict discipline that the military demands; strict adherence to the gang rules.

For example, last year the Ganster Disciples made over $100 million selling drugs. Yet they have a strict rule that no gang members may use drugs.

Research before you let your fingers hit the keys instead of shooting from the lip.

[dirtydog55]

The biggest most violent gang on Earth, are the people that kill more people through violence on Earth, and that is the US military and the merchants of death. Posted by MrHoppy at 10:09 PM : Jul 29, 2007


You're a sicko, hoppy. Are you still hopped up on drugs?

The military is only doing what it's told to do. Spew your hate at Bush and Cheney instead of the military.

[tnt1954]

dirty dog 55 is right. they say buy dope
or die, or dye, and fight the weirding way.
talk about the 'hard sell'. then there
is the 'soft sell', like its cool man, ya
wanna get high, ya wanna get down, if you
do ya do,if you don't you don't, but if
you don't, hey dudes, you'll have no friends
at all, even your own mother. and no
holes to put the shamus in. tuff luck
for the shucks. therefore secret agents
for govts. are hunting down dopers and
dope lords and murdering them in cold blood,
like in james bond. all cops are licensed
to kill, like 007. private vigilante groups
do it too. thou shalt not get stoned.

[dirtydog55]

I hate racist, from all cultures, blacks, whites, it doesn't matter, with a passion. The retarded and stupid idea that a few bad seeds from any culture is an excuse to dis an entire culture is pure racism, and those who publicly spit this type of hate show just how uneducated they are. Posted by tbweb at 12:21 AM : Jul 30, 2007


I second that...

[dirtydog55]

Why is it that it's only blacks doing this ***? Why is it that these gangs are only black? No asian, white or other ethnic gangs. Is this where all the handouts and freebies the liberals have showered on these people has led us? Posted by Luigi999 at 12:42 AM : Jul 30, 2007


The FBI's 2007 report on gangs states that "street gangs, including the Bloods, Crips, Black Disciples, Ganster Disciples, *** Angels Lating Kings, The 18th Street Gang, Mara Salvatrucha, Mexican Mafia, Nortenos, Surenos, Vice Lords, Black P. Stones and various white supremacist groups have been documented on both domestic and international military installations." Recruiting gang members violates military regulations.

I'll leave it to your bad reasoning abilities to determine which gangs are white.

Bigotry gets you nowhere.

[tnt1954]

prohibition now! it should not have been
repealed in 1933, that's the only reason
fdr won. and of course, the soviet caused
great depression. the doper, alcoholic
personality, calls anyone who separates
him from his dope or his likker a nazi.
he's the slave of his own dope and his
love of money which is the root of all
evil. they love business volume, repeat
business. i smoke three packs of cigarettes
a day. so what!! ya gotta die of something.
i'm not looking forward to it really.
the gun lords and the atomic weapons
lords are more important to worry about.
the weapons lords. real insanity.
rumor has it that there is now a weapon
that can annhilate 13 trillion cubic
parsecs of space in a nanosecond. whanna
a psycho to get hold of that?

[y2k4567]

I hate to stoop to the level of assinine idiots who I know behind it are cowards but some things I can't let pass. xzavierbrown huh some cover. You COWARD *** PROBABLY *** *** REDNECK RACIST CHUMP BECAUSE OF BLACKMEN EVERY SUCCESSFUL MILITARY CAMPAIGN OUTSIDE OF THE AIRSTRIKES WERE HEAVILY INFLUENCED BY BLACKMEN. AS A MATTER OF FACT THE TUSKEEGEE AIRMEN WERE HIGHLY NOTED FOR THERE STELLAR PERFORMANCE IN AIR COMBAT AND USHERED IN NEW METHODS OF PROTECTING BOMBERS ON BOMBING RUNS. You dont know sh*t to begin with you haven't stated one fact. I bet you and no one in your family ever raised a weapon to protect america but talk alot of sh*t and only your braindamaged friends are in agreement with you. There are more neonazis and skinheads in the military than any other gangs or criminal organizations combined. All throughout history even during times of a draft politicians have made sure a healthy amount of loudmouth cowards LIKE YOU get out of having to do battle. How do you bring the term whining into the discussion? Did you notice that I spelled the word right, I guess whining has given me a better command of phonics than your alcohol poisoned phonetically challenged brain. Your'e not amusing, you sound dumb as hell, and your'e definitely not scary either.

[andrew_693]

There are plenty of white gangs out there, the kkk for example is a gang criminal organization that has killed thousands. There is a tradition of gangs in the US....the italian (today made up of italian americans)mafia is also a gang. Asians?? asian have gangs like everyone else, they are called "yakkuza" they spread throughout Japan....the chinese are also involved in organized crime, illegal immigrant smuggle, they have a criminal organization that brings 100s of thosands of illegals from China en other Asian countries....the vietnamese also have gangs in the east coast.....so you see? the military has had gangs for a long time...gang members are rarely your educated university student or the person that makes the grades in class, gangs are usually made by loosers who cannot survive in the real world so they pick up a gun and rob someone. In jails you have your racial groups completely separated.

[y2k4567]

I SAW A PBS DOCUMENTARY AND I THINK AN EPOSODE OF 60 MINUTES TALKING ABOUT SKIN HEADS AND NEO NAZIS IN THE MILTARY. HOW DID THE PEOPLE WHO SAW THIS MANAGE TO MISS THAT. IF YOU LOOK AT THE RACIAL MAKE UP OF ALL ARMED FORCES FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS AND LOOK FOR TRENDS, THE STUFF THESE RACISTS SAY HOLD NO WEIGHT THE TRUTH IS RIGHT THERE. IT'S NOT AS WIDELY REPORTED BECAUSE THERE JOB IS TO MAKE BLACK FACES THE FACES OF CRIMINALS.

[chicagoboy22]

The pop-up adds on this site (all of CBSnews.com) are very unprofessional... i like how it covers the article.. guess paying the bills is more important than the news... everyone should send feedback to the site and tell CBS to stop

[y2k4567]

WHERE IN THE HELL IN THE INNER CITY OR URBAN AREA ARE GANGS GOING TO TEACH PARAMILITARY SH*T?
ON THE OTHER HAND IN RURAL AREAS THAT JUST SO HAPPEN TO BE DOMINATED BY NEONAZIS AND SKINHEADS WHO FREQUENT THE MILITARY NOTHINGS GOING ON. YOU EVER SEEN HOW MANY GANG MEMBERS BE AT GUN SHOWS? THEY RUN MOST OF THE BOOTHS AND SAY BACKGROUND CHECKS ARE A PROBLEM NOW. AND SKINHEADS ARE MORE FOCUSED ON TEACHING THERE CHARGES BOXING I BET.

[brianbwb-2009]

Here is a double edged sword, on one hand, military training presents increased difficulty for law enforcement to capture criminals, and increases the likelihood of "extra curricular war crimes" being committed during campaigns.

On the other hand, in light of Bush's tactics in committing crimes against humanity, i.e., using a staged incident to launch an illegal "war" against innocents, it is only a matter of time before he, or some future neo nazi madman, uses the same precedents to launch the "final solution" to America's "race" problem, in which case we will need as much military experience and intel we can get for the coming battles...

[yamuttya]

The pop up ads on this site are a joke.CBS you will not have anyone to read your ads if you don't clean up this site.
ENOUGH OF INTRUSIVE ADS ALREADY !!!!

Regarding US gangs in IRAQ.

For Bush to say the war is defending and spreading deocracy is absurd.
There are democracies in the world ( Canada , UK etc ) but this article documents the pathetic state of 21st century America.

Gangs , guns ,racism, republicants and other undemocratic institutions made America a mess before Bush.
Since Bush the US is a disaster and a laughing stock to the world.
Bush's America is a disgrace and an embarrassment to democratic ideals.Nobody believes or respects the USA.

An attorney general accused of perjury by congress ????
A white house sanctioning torture ?????
A psycho vice president in the pocket of the oil companies?????
The worst president in history ?????
A vice pres's chief of staff convicted of perjury???
A country sleepwalking into global warming while doing nothing but watch their car companies die ????

This is leadership ?
This is Obama's dream.
This is America's suicide.
This is Bush's America.

Thank you republicants, it's been real.....

US gangs in Iraq....please.
This isn't exporting democracy.
This is admitting to the world that you have failed and are too stupid to do anything about it.
Shame on you America, you created this mess yourselves.

[r9119111]

There is nothing worse than a gang of crooked partisan Republican politicians.

[gunownerdan]

Gangs, terrorists, politicians, and other dangerous criminals just love unarmed victims.
A defenseless victim is an easy victim.
Self Defense:
A-HUMAN-RIGHT.com

[rafterman1]

===As for the joker who posted all the wrongs of the Repbulicans, as soon as I get back from work I'll have time to post just SOME of the garbage from previous dems, particularly the couple who want back in the WH. What a joke.===

No matter what you come up with, it will never be as bad as 3500 American soldiers murdered under false pretenses. So, sorry, a stained blue dress doesn't compete.

[navyretired2]

Accountability...

That is the key ingredient to fix the current state of the US. The current administration believes they are above it, most gangs in the US don't feel it, congress talks about it yet dodges it and can do nothing but vote themselves more pay raises.

Its the duty of EVERY American to hold accountability where it's due. Starting from the top down. There was a time in this country where consequences and accountability were mainstays and pillars of our society. Today we have government that acts like it's "above" the law. They're supposed to be the example of good morals and discipline to the nation. With the current example we're shown, how do we expect people to act?

Side note: For those of you who say "why are blacks doing this" bla bla etc...take a second and do some searches on "gangs" in the US. You'll find there are tons out there that aren't black. The "producers" of this article only showed a few pictures, and those pictures happened to contain black guys. For that matter, there aren't any black guys in prominent positions in the country's most violent, destructive, modern day gang known as the Bush Administration.

[drinuk]

This debacle simply represents the attitude of the leadership. Wicked Bullies and rank bad management, from the top down they stink to high heaven of B S !

War Against Terror! they can not even manage the terror within the armed forces. Time they got down on their knees to a certain Arizona Sheriff and asked for help.

[tbweb]

The U.S. should bite the bullet and reinstate the Draft with a lottery to make it fair. The lower recruiting standards, while increasing bodies are not increasing the skill sets required to operate High Tech Weapons Systems. All able body Americans should serve their country anyway, instead of just sitting back enjoying the benefits of freedom without contributing to or helping earn those freedoms. Gang members of any persuasion should be kicked out of the military, keeping known gang members in the military because of shortages and being in a situation where the U.S. has no choice is even more reason for a Draft. It's now a matter of National Security.

[prinzowhales]

And the Mexican special forces are acting as enforcers for drug gangs with the inside edge... while Americans have restored opium production and NATO troops fight and die so that the addicts of the world can get their fix.

Keep supporting the butcher's war for oil, Israel and opium...the Stupid Peoples' War.

Down with the Regime! Troops Home Now!

[bkylws]

==No matter what you come up with, it will never be as bad as 3500 American soldiers murdered under false pretenses. So, sorry, a stained blue dress doesn't compete.==

Maybe if a previous pres. had taken care of the situation during his administration have to count the number of soldiers lives lost.

==The U.S. should bite the bullet and reinstate the Draft with a lottery to make it fair.==

What is fair about a draft with a lottery? Abraham Lincoln tried this during the Civil War and it didn't work out too well back then either.