Immigration Ruling Could Have Broad Impact

Judge's Ruling Against Local Anti-Immigrant Law Could Affect Similar Laws Nationwide

(CBS/AP)  A federal judge's ruling that a Pennsylvania city may not enforce its tough anti-illegal immigration law could decide the fate of copycat measures adopted in other communities around the U.S.

U.S. District Judge James Munley found fault with just about every aspect of Hazleton's Illegal Immigration Relief Act, which he struck down Thursday in a 206-page opinion that declared states and municipalities have no business trying to stem illegal immigration.

Munley's decision applies only to Hazleton, but legal experts say it could lead to similar rulings elsewhere.

The decision is a road map for judges "inclined to find in favor of immigrant advocates," said Peter Spiro, who teaches immigration law at Temple University.

"This is a big victory for immigrants rights advocates ... in the first major case addressing one of these ordinances," he said. "They could hardly have asked for more."

Hazleton sought to impose fines on landlords who rent to illegal immigrants and deny business permits to companies that give them jobs. Another measure would have required tenants to register with City Hall and pay for a rental permit.

Hazleton's Republican mayor started pushing for the strict laws last summer after two illegal immigrants were charged in a fatal shooting. Mayor Lou Barletta argued that illegal immigrants brought drugs, crime and gangs to the city of more than 30,000, overwhelming police and schools.

"When you start seeing serious crimes being committed, very violent crimes being committed and time and time again those involved are illegal aliens, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that you're experiencing a problem here that you've never had before, nor do you have the resources to deal with it," Hazleton Mayor Lou Barletta told 60 Minutes correspondent Steve Kroft in November.

More than 90 communities across the United States have considered or approved measures similar to Hazleton's. But Munley said such laws usurp the federal government's exclusive power to regulate immigration and deprive residents of their constitutional right to due process.

"Even if federal law did not conflict with Hazleton's measures, the city could not enact an ordinance that violates rights the Constitution guarantees to every person in the United States, whether legal resident or not," Munley wrote.

Munley also wrote that Hazleton's law was at odds with current federal immigration policy, which he said avoids "excessive enforcement" against illegal immigrants so as not to jeopardize foreign relations. Hazleton, he said, failed to consider "the implications of the ordinances on foreign policy."

Hazleton Mayor Lou Barletta pushed for the strict laws last summer after two illegal immigrants were charged in a fatal shooting. The Republican mayor argued that illegal immigrants brought drugs, crime and gangs to the city of more than 30,000, overwhelming police and schools.

Hispanic groups and illegal immigrants in Hazleton sued, denouncing the measures as racist and divisive.

Hazleton's act was copied by dozens of municipalities around the country that believe the federal government has not done enough to stop illegal immigration.

Because the Hazleton ordinance was the first to go to trial, Munley's opinion will almost certainly be studied by judges determining the validity of similar measures, experts said. A federal judge in Texas, for instance, is considering a legal challenge to a law in the Dallas suburb of Farmers Branch that prohibits apartment rentals to illegal immigrants.

"Any judge is going to have to look at what Judge Munley has written and take it into consideration in deciding how they want to rule," said Jan Ting, a former federal immigration official and Temple University law professor. "A judge would be negligent" not to, he added.

Hazleton plans to appeal Munley's decision to the Philadelphia-based 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals within 30 days. The city's lawyer, Kris Kobach, has said Munley ignored Supreme Court precedent and existing federal law.

In defending the ordinance, Kobach relied heavily on a 1976 Supreme Court decision in which the high court upheld a California law prohibiting businesses from employing illegal immigrants.

But Munley said the Supreme Court's ruling in that case was no longer applicable, because a decade later Congress enacted sweeping legislation that made it unlawful for businesses to employ illegal immigrants — and expressly pre-empted states and localities from imposing their own civil or criminal penalties.

Angelo Paparelli, president of the Academy of Business Immigration Lawyers and an opponent of the Hazleton law, predicted that courts will use Munley's decision as a template. "He rebutted and threw down as wrongheaded every legal argument the city made," he said.

But Ting, who is critical of Munley's ruling, said its value to other judges would be diminished if an appeals court reverses it. "I don't think anyone can foresee with certainty what the ultimate outcome will be," Ting said. "I think we have miles to go before we sleep on this one."

Even Spiro, who opposes the Hazleton law, said Munley's decision is vulnerable because it is an unsettled area of the law. "The court ruled that localities such as Hazleton simply can't regulate immigration policy. It's not as clear as the district court made it out to be," he said.

[stokeybob]

I'm not so sure the overturning of the Hazleton ordinance has anything to do with being unconstitutional. I mean look at whom we are dealing with here. The Federal Government routinely violates the U.S. Constitution.

It is all about taking what they want.

When they seized control of California after the passing of Proposition 187, they claimed it was unconstitutional. Then they had someone park it on their desk to keep it from moving up through the courts.

We have been dictated to ever since.

I wish you all luck with your attempt to restore law and order. Be ready to act. You've seen recent history unfold before you. We have no excuse like that we forgot!

[kaiyo4u]

Typical of our government, aiding and abetting. It's all they can do

[shortybbc]

that judge is just looking for votes

[txlakeside]

My wife was a legal immigrant who had to jump through many hoops and go by the rules to become an American citizen!

Illegal immigrants should have no rights at all as they are illegal ..... period!

BTW ... my wifes color, ethnic background or race is not a material subject regading illegal aliens .... illegal is the only relevant subject to the discussion.

[aznyron-2009]

the American people are up against the wall on this one Now the illegals are hiding behind our Constitution what happened to this country when my grand father entered the usa in the 1800 he enlisted in the U S Navy during the Spanish American war that how he got his citizen ship my very dear friend came from croatia in 1961 and he enlisted in the US Army and serverd for 28 years retired as a E 7 these are the kinds of people we want not some who come here to feed off our welfare system because there Goverment can not or will not provide for them sadly the Rep want them for cheap labor namely chamber of commerce and the Dem want them for cheap votes I guess we lost as the saying go money talks bull sh** walks or is it the other way round LOL God Bless America

[flash2368]

Who is America? We have lost our national identity. Every illegal should be summarily kicked out of the country. We have given away the "keys to the store" and it is being ransacked by the whole world.

[tnt1954]

i met a woman once who came to america
from nazi yugoslavia, she was born in
a concentration camp, in 1944. she became
an expert counterfeiter. she made 700 quintillion dollars an hour, counterfeiting all currencies
of the world and laundering it through her vast
empire. at first i thought she was a poor
lady, just eking out a living. how wrong i
was. omerta. she helped us formulate policy
on bosnia with the aid of a serb philosopher
and social worker. during bush one. she stopped advisement when clinton came in. he was one
of the hated fonda people. she x'd him out
entirely. being liberated from the camps
in yugoslavia was the happiest moment of
her families life. if you only knew. and clinton never did have a clue to even a clue.

[tnt1954]

if you liked clinton's bosnia policy you'll love
shirley roper phelps as secretary of gay rights.
a new cabinet position.

[tnt1954]

what countries will the union of soviet
america enslave next?

[us18988]

Just what do you expect from a Clinton appointee?

Hear that, Lefties who scream (and rightfully so) about Bush's pro-ILLEGAL amnesty policies? Your friends the Clintons, Obama, Pelosi, Reid want to shove MS-13 and other non-English speaking, anti-citizenship aliens down your silly throats.

And the rest of us too.

"Judge" (and he ain't one in my book) Monkey should be hung from a telephone post, and Mayor Barletta should ignore the ruling. Our citizens COME FIRST...

And Libs, those of you who support the ILLEGALS sans citizenship, think about what your lives would be like if you tried to pull their cr&p in their countries, or anywhere else. Try insisting on speaking ONLY English in Mexico...or amongst your Islamo friends.

Again, Libs, this b&stard who twisted the Constitution to favor non-citizens and also the criminals who killed a young man there was A CLINTON APPOINTEE. Think about it when you want to vote for either Hillary or the other pro-ILLEGAL idiots like Obama, Dood, Biden, and Richardson.

[brianbwb-2009]

Most of you are blaming the wrong problem.

The illegals come here because business loves the slave labor, and they bribe the politicians and police to look the other way. Why pay a decent wage to an American, if you can pay slave labor at one third the wage?

Here is the only solution, make it a crime punishable by large fines,($250,000 per person) and (not or) long jail terms, (7 to 15 years) to pay anyone less than the federal minimum wage for full or part time jobs. Give the sentencing judge no latitude to reduce sentences, and give 10% of the fine to whoever reports the violation.

Then watch the unemployment rate drop drastically, as Americans fill the jobs currently being done by slaves. The illegals disappear voluntarily, as there will be no work to be had.

[atldog]

My cousin (19 yo) was killed by an illegal alien about two months ago. I called my Representative and Senators and told them that her blood was on THEIR hands for not enforcing the laws and getting that animal off the streets.

[sharncedar]

It seems our "judges" only rule popular laws "unconstitutional" these days. These are laws enacted by the common people through initiatives or by small towns where there is more direct democracy. We never see the laws of Congress, or the obvious illegal acts of the president, being ruled unconstitutional. That's their game, that's how these "judges" get rich. But there is a price for everything.

These judges are at war with America. This phony, murderous judge has fired his shot at our country, he has made his attack on our right to democracy. He has disgraced us, done his dirty work for the rich and the elite. Let's not forget. Let's remember the names of every traitor (a web site would help) and see that we the people reward and punish as well, so that these "judges" are served with proper respect for America.

We are not their garbage. Though they treat us that way, this garbage can fight back.

[prinzowhales]

Over two decades have passed since the Reagan Administration 'solved' the illegal immigration problem with a host of open border, free trade nonsense. If anyone doesn't like the open border, there has been ample opportunity to elect people who will secure the border...You just won't vote for them...You tell yourself that they "can't win"...that you have to "pick the lesser of two evils"...

If Americans lack the moral and intellectual stamina to stand up for what they believe in... then, maybe that border should stay wide open and maybe American wages should stagnate and maybe we should all pay more taxes so our noble corporations, that we exist only to serve, can increase their profit margins with cheap non-unionized labour.

[formrusmcsgt]

It seems our "judges" only rule popular laws "unconstitutional" these days.
Posted by SharnCedar at 07:46 AM : Jul 29, 2007

Illegal eavesdropping is real popular, eh Sharncedar?

Torture is also popular these days.

I agree with those who wish to see our border protected, of course.

Where I part company with many here is when they call for 15 to 20 million people in the country and repatriating them.

And here are my reasons:

1. Cost. The American Center for progress estimates that the average cost per alien for detection, apprehension, detention, processing, and deportation to be a little over $17,000.

Multiply that by 15 million and see what you get.

2. Children. Many of these illegals are established and have children who are legal American Citizens. Who will assume the responsibility for ll these children should their parents be deported?

3. World perception. At a time where much of our moral authority and respect around the world has been corrupted by neocon policy, we can hardly afford to be seen as a country who shows no compassion in this matter. The ramifications with out latin allies would be horrendous.

We need to close the border, require Mexico to step up and do their part on their side and integrate these families into the fabric of our society.

Oh yeah, putting aside the racism would do us no harm, either.

[reel-crazy]

America has sold out to corporate greed and these monsters need to be SEVERELY fined AND imprisoned.

These ILLEGALS are going to learn to speak English and become valuable assets to the American way? Get real. I am sick of driving down the street in my area and seeing gaudy Spanish advertising on construction trucks, roadside billboards, and the few business store fronts left while having to scan past Spanish radio stations on the airwaves of my FM dial while passing these ILLEGAL'S homes.

Did I mention these once fine homes are tainted with several yardcars parked on their unmowed lawns, doors agape with concrete blocks, window screens torn, unsupervised kids in the streets, trash on the sidewalks, and boom boxes blaring, too? Oh yea, I WANT MORE ILLEGALS. Keep them coming. I am happy my property values are progressively nosediving and these ILLEGALS are living a better life. PFFFFFF

You lazy law enforcement agencies need to get off your butts, do your job, and corral these people up and SEND THEM BACK from whence they came from as the LAW dictates instead of making LAME excuses that there is too many of them. THAT'S BU11SH1T and you know it....

[formrusmcsgt]

Reel-Crazy-

You apparently think only hispanics can have trashy houses, eh?

What do you propose we do about the anglos and blacks who live in homes where every car they've ever owned is sitting out in the front yard rusting away? Deport them too?

Deporting illegals will not rid the country of Spanish speaking people. Everyone who speaks Spanish is not an illegal.

Help for xenophobia can be found at www.psych.org, the American Psychiatric Assocoation site.

[reel-crazy]

They just happen to be Hispanic in my area so I used them as examples.

Hopefully they will arrive in your neighborhood soon so you can enjoy a little of their freedom from the LAW, too, formrusmcsgt....

[mrhoppy-2009]

There is a real easy solution to the judges solution. States that want to stop the flow of illegal workers can succeed from the Union.

I am guessing that before one state even completes that move the government will stop using illegal labor to destroy labor unions and push labor prices down in order to impoverish the working class.

The first state to leave the union will have a huge economic upsurge since they are no longer paying far more then the income tax from the fruit of their labor. Everything they buy has also been taxed sometimes hundreds of times.

A loaf of bread - The farmer gets 5 cents for the wheat, then there are over 100 different taxes placed on the wheat as it goes through the process of becoming a loaf of bread.

A gallon of gas - Oil companies pay little or no taxes and like many corporations, actually get tax rebates. If you payed at the pump everything that you ultimately pay for a gallon of gas, you pay some of the highest prices anywhere.

Succeed from the union and become a little Switzerland and you will be rich beyond your dreams.

[iceman_1960]

"Immigration Ruling Could Have Broad Impact"

Of course it will have an impact on women.

That goes without saying.





( j/k )

[akpals]

I think the bottom line should be that if you look at all the gangs,drugs,homeless, and those on welfare you can plainly see that we have enough problems here already. Why anyone would expect us to be happy about adding more? Those that see this country as always having room for one more need to remove the blinders. This *** about giving illegals more rights is crazy. When you start thinking of Lady Liberty as a single working parent in debt up to her ***, you'll be able to be less generous to all of those showing up to dinner uninvited.

[jameslouiky]

It's the greedy who move here, it they were not greedy they would stay in the countries they came from. (As a general rule). Just like greedy people it's never enough, when they find an easier way to make money selling drugs, stealing and murdering people in their way it's not much of a step for them. When on the run, they run back to the country they are from.

It's the greedy here who keep promoting loose border policies, for money, political power, phony religious ideals which have more to do with the first two reasons adding in greed for god.

Isn't it funny that the news never talks about what the countries these people come from like Mexico who is also a nation of immigrants? They treat immigrants much different then we do.

In Mexico if your an American working illegally, they arrest you place you in jail and fine you $10,000. They don't deport you out until you pay up. This includes confiscating your property. If we employed that policy they would be gone in a decade.

Once they become legal here they are not going to pick tomatoes. They are going to get real jobs starting a whole new round of illegals!

They can%u2019t even run their own lives in their own country, I%u2019ll be dammed if they%u2019ll run mine%u2026.sunshine.

[mo005]

formrusmcsg: We forced the black people into this country, and they do speak english. They don't live ten familys to a house, and have a child ever 9 months just to get more free money. These mexicans are moving here just so they can get a free life here. They are expecting us to learn their language, and to change for them. They don't care that american already has a language, and its own customs. If we don't do something soon they WILL out number us and take over this great nation of ours and it will never recover.

[coffeehead-2009]

You HAVE to sit down study and research the WHOLE picture and write to, phone, or march on your state/nat'l representatives. You have to do it YOURSELVES. This democracy is slipping away. You better wake up!

xxxxxx

It is definately getting better. BUT - this is the policy of capitlaism laz faire. It requires just what they are doing. Making our lives so miserable and peasant-like that we are just too busy,paranoid and subliminally blind. America has lost not only it's pride but is raped of it's courage.

In a sense, it is understandable that the ruling class within capitalism desires to manipulate unemployment in this way and deflect questions about their profit, property and power onto the labour market. Managing depression (as indicated by high unemployment levels) allows greater profits to be extracted from workers as management hierarchy is more secure. When times are hard, workers with jobs think twice before standing up to their bosses and so work harder, for longer and in worse conditions. This ensures that surplus value is increased relative to real wages (indeed, in the USA, real wages have stagnated since 1973 while profits have grown massively). In addition, such a policy ensures that political discussion about investment, profits, power and so on ("the other institutional factors") are reduced and diverted because working class people are too busy trying to make ends meet.


http://www.capitalism.net/Laissez-Faire%20Capitalism.htm

[sharncedar]

I think it is reasonable to find out where this judge works and picket his office. His home would be out of bounds, but his office is a constitutional political statement. Make it miserable for him to come to work, make him feel the pain instead of us. If we make an example out of this crooked judge, maybe some of the other elitists will pause before attacking America. It's going to have to be like that - they don't listen to us, they don't respect us, they aren't on our side and never will be.

I can see a mob of protesting and angry citzens harrasing this illegal clown of a judge wherever he goes. Let's make an example of this guy. At the supermarket, at his office, in the airport, at the bank where he tries to spend his bribery money - let's have activists there, protesting him, making him know he is unwelcome in our country. Making an example out of one crook like this will put the fear of God into the rest of these thieves, most likely, as they are the most abject kinds of cowards.

I can also see some enterprising video artist shooting video of the illegal alien slaves leaving this piece of garbage judge's home. Since it is close to a given that he himself has illegal alien slaves in his home, probably raising his children for him while he parties with his liberal wife. When you post the video, let me know, put it up on you tube I would find it interesting.

[likeitis5050]

Take note of any judge or politician that agrees with giving illegal immigrants full rights and exemption from immigration laws and make sure they know who you are in the process. Profiling is a concern, especially if you are an American. It's time Americans, of all heritage, step up and demand OUR immigration laws be obeyed without regard to ACLU threats. What the judge is basically doing is cowering under the ACLU. What he is actually doing is declaring SOME criminals exempt from our laws. Another corrupted judge. One of thousands making decisions in OUR country today. The ACLU is operating from loop holes that our politicans and judges know exist but make no effort to correct. Until we stand up and show we are in control...the ACLU rules.

[likeitis5050]

SharnCedar I'll be looking forward to YOUR video on Utube.

[prinzowhales]

Mo005--I blame both parties--and the people who have ignored the open borders and voted for pro-free trade, pro-open borders, pro-New World Order candidates. Both parties have had control of the Executive and Legislative branches during the last two decades--they did nothing...and the people just kept re-electing them...and as long as people keep voting for the mainstream candidates...the Clinton-Thompson-Obama-Romney-Edwards candidates...and as long as the people and their state and local leaders won't stand up against these black-robed, bench-squatting vermin on the federal bench, nothing is going to change.

California could have stood up when the bench monkey put the will of the people at naught and threw out the proposition that was passed to protect them from the costs of illegal immigration. No, it didn't because it had a governor and legislature were to spineless to cause a stink. Its time that the states and municipalities have leaders that will stand up to the usurpers in Washington and make them go through the effort of quashing them.

[njman4]

Check out NumbersUSA website and join. Send the emails to the politicians who represent you. Complaining here doesn't accomplish much.

[strombi30-2009]

If people would go to numbersusa.com website, they would find sane sensible ways to deal with our immigration problems. If more people joined, our government would have to find ways of dealing instead of rhetoric upon rhetoric. Numbers faces the problem head on, and also advocates non violence when dealing with the problem. Its time to band together with numbers usa, and move forward on the immigration issue.

[grammawhamma]

Posted by nvhorseman at 10:45 AM : Jul 29, 2007

Excellent post!!

[bhappy2-2]

formrusmcsgt
1. Cost. Confiscate all money, vehicles and homes (whether rented or not) and USE THEIR MONEY to send them home.
2. Children. They can take them with them. I wouldn't want to break apart a family just to acheive JUSTICE.
3. World perception. I couldn't care less about what the world thinks of us PROTECTING OUR COUNTRY, ENFORCING OUR LAWS and PROTECTING OUR BORDERS.
Oh yeah, putting aside the racism would do us no harm, either. When will you ILLEGAL ALIEN LOVERS come to understand it is not racism; it is our desire to see the LAWS of OUR country enforced at the same level for ALL.

[randalds]

Constantly arguing and re-arguing these local laws is ridiculous. We need real, comprehensive immigration reform, including a real path to citizenship for those already here (and yes, call it amnesty if you want, but the idea of mass deportation is an excersise in ignorance and an assine fantasy that will not work), a real Guest Worker program for those who just want to come here to work and a complete rebuild of the immigration department so those who want to immigrate here don't have to wait 10 or 15 years to do it.

[randalds]

Oh yeah, putting aside the racism would do us no harm, either. When will you ILLEGAL ALIEN LOVERS come to understand it is not racism; it is our desire to see the LAWS of OUR country enforced at the same level for ALL.
Posted by bhappy2-2 at 07:00 PM : Jul 29, 2007

Enforce our laws? Are you kidding? Your option one violates our constitution and many of our laws itself. You can not confiscate their property or money without a court hearing to determine exactly what it is each one of them owns. That ought to take, oh let's see....I'd say about two or three generations of court time...80 to 100 years. then each one of the ones you want to deport gets a day in court, if for no other reason then to determine legally if they are or are not citizens so we don't accidentally deport legal Americans. Now that ought to take...oh say another generation or two. Now as for your next come back that they're here illegally so they don't deserve a day in court, look at Amendment 14 of the Constitution and you'll see that every person, here legally or not is guaranteed due process of law. Of course I suppose you could change that...that ought to take...oh well...you get the idea.....

[randalds]

Below is why they can not just be kicked out without due process of law. Any person and that means ANY person within the territory of the United States is entitled to due process of law and equal protection under that law. Mass deportations would take decades and fill the jails by 12 to 15 million. We have a little over a million in jail now and our system is about to split at the seams now. It would cost several trillion dollars to deport the ones that are here now, plus it would be a body blow to our economy that depends on them.



Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights. Ratified 7/9/1868. Note History

1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

[likeitis5050]

RandalDS The Constitution works great when our leaders follow it. But lately we have leaders picking and choosing which parts they want to follow and which parts just don't suit them. When it comes to terrorists...nah...Bush and his buddies don't see why they should have benefit of Constitutional rights..doesn't suit them. Toss the Constitution...replace with executive privilege. When it comes to giving our country away to criminals who work for less money...yeah...that works...make sure they follow our Constitution on that one! We, the people, prefer to follow, to the letter, our Constitution...and the laws that have been created around it. That includes our immigration laws. Just follow the immigration laws..PERIOD...and we won't have to have this discussion every 20 years!!!!

[randalds]

Just follow the immigration laws..PERIOD...and we won't have to have this discussion every 20 years!!!!
Posted by likeitis5050 at 08:01 PM : Jul 29, 2007

Hey you'll get no argument from me that Bush sucks when it comes to following the law. I think he needs to go to prison. However just because the chimp ignores the Constitution in some cases doesn't make it right for us to. Of course we shouldn't have to have this fight every 20 years and we wouldn't have to now if after the last amnesty they'd actually enforced the rest of the immigration laws then, but they didn't and now we're stuck with 12-20 million people that we can NOT deport. Just because they scre*wed it up last time doesn't mean the idea itself was wrong, just badly done. Besides there IS no other answer except the grant amnsety and this time do it right!

[jameslouiky]

RandalDS your absolutely wrong, it's not done through the court system. You're one of those guys who are always saying it can't be done. "Going to the moon can't be done". "Curing polio can't be done". "Man was not made to fly can't be done." Typical one dimensional thinker.

It starts with shows on TV showing they are no longer welcome.

Then, a few raids on large employers (sound familiar) first to capture and deport. Then start arresting and convicting the employers who hire them with laws already on the books and make sure they serve jail time.
Employment would overnight disappear for them, no place to work they will begin a mass exit. A combination of peer pressure on congress and employers. Example, public prosecution of large employers who turned a blind eye. More then half of them would be gone within 10 years. And before you start blabing about how hard it would be to tell if they are illegal, a five minute conversation which is what they train border guards to do works very well.
The raids last year and earlier this year have slowed the influx by nearly half.

[jameslouiky]

RandalDS your absolutely wrong, it's not done through the court system. You're one of those guys who are always saying it can't be done. "Going to the moon can't be done". "Curing polio can't be done". "Man was not made to fly can't be done." Typical one dimensional thinker.

It starts with shows on TV showing they are no longer welcome.

Then, a few raids on large employers (sound familiar) first to capture and deport. Then start arresting and convicting the employers who hire them with laws already on the books and make sure they serve jail time.
Employment would overnight disappear for them, no place to work they will begin a mass exit. A combination of peer pressure on congress and employers. Example, public prosecution of large employers who turned a blind eye. More then half of them would be gone within 10 years. And before you start blabing about how hard it would be to tell if they are illegal, a five minute conversation which is what they train border guards to do works very well.
The raids last year and earlier this year have slowed the influx by nearly half.

[jameslouiky]

Oh and by the way confiscation of property followed by deportaion was done sucessfully over sixty years ago. The only reason it's not being used now is because to many people are making billions of these people by keeping wages low.

Sending them back to their own country, would be the best thing we could do for their countries. They would demand change and kick out all those corrupt incompetent officials.

[randalds]

The raids last year and earlier this year have slowed the influx by nearly half.
Posted by Jameslouiky at 10:11 PM : Jul 29, 2007

ROTFLMFAO!!!!! Do you REALLY believe that horse shi*t? LOLOLOLOL!!! Who told you that? Lou Dobbs? LOLOLOL

Yes we were able to go to the moon and yes we were able to cure polio, but neither of those have anything to do with the question of deport 12-20 million people who do not want to leave, most of whom have productive jobs contributing to America and many of whom own their own businesses. Not only can you NOT deport that many people who don't want to leave, you'd be hurting the American economy by far more then helping it. So not only is deportation impossible, it's ignorant

"And before you start blabing about how hard it would be to tell if they are illegal, a five minute conversation which is what they train border guards to do works very well."

And how long until they all start demanding their rightful court hearing? LOLOLOL!!! Give it up! Deportation or running them out of the country is a right wing wet dream and nothing more.

[randalds]

It starts with shows on TV showing they are no longer welcome.

Then, a few raids on large employers (sound familiar) first to capture and deport. Then start arresting and convicting the employers who hire them with laws already on the books and make sure they serve jail time.
Employment would overnight disappear for them, no place to work they will begin a mass exit. A combination of peer pressure on congress and employers. Example, public prosecution of large employers who turned a blind eye.

Posted by Jameslouiky at 10:12 PM : Jul 29, 2007

And they ARE wanted! Every big business wants them. Every corporate farmer wants them. Every construction company wants them And you know who wants them the most? Every politician that gets campaign contributions from all of those businesses. So vote them all out and the next group you vote in will tell you the same da*mn thing. Ya can't deport that many people and it'd be a stupid thing to do if you could. You're not really naive enough to think those fines and punishments against big business are really going to happen are you? The undocumented workers are here to stay. Let's start dealing with this problem from that staring point because it's the only realistic way to do it.

[jameslouiky]

RandalDS once again your lack of history/ one dimensional thinking shows.

What we are really setting ourselves up for is, on the next down turn of the economy, civil strife. On a level that will make the 60's look tame. They are already flexing their muscle with these protests and it's only going to get worse.

On the illegal immigration down turn it was just reported by the border patrol/ICE two weeks ago when they were so stop blabbing like you know something. What a bore! Get the blinders off!

As far as the economy goes, it's in history too. It's allot of fear tactics mixed with a few facts. Example, during the black plague when workers were dying off wages went up for the average worker. They began to buy things only dreamed of before which made more work for others. More housing became available/affordable their standard of living rose.

The ones really being hurt are those who can most afford it. When people default on over priced home loans, then buy back at realistic prices. Every time the minimum wage is raised the rich predict doom but the economy shoots up. Twenty years ago an American asked a Communist why he belied his press since it came from the party, he answered why do you believe yours it came from a capitalist.

[jameslouiky]

During the 19th century there was heated debate over hard money (gold standard) which only helps the rich. When we came off the gold standard is when our economy took off.

You can sure keep beating that old drum but the bottom line is there are 300,000,000 of us we can sure show a few people the door. make that 299,999,999 minus the one who's too sacred and is spending all his time hand wringing.

[nottellin1]

You can sure keep beating that old drum but the bottom line is there are 300,000,000 of us we can sure show a few people the door. make that 299,999,999 minus the one who's too sacred and is spending all his time hand wringing.

Posted by Jameslouiky at 11:42 PM : Jul 29, 2007

You make good points and I agree with you.

[randalds]

"Example, during the black plague when workers were dying off wages went up for the average worker. They began to buy things only dreamed of before which made more work for others. More housing became available/affordable their standard of living rose."

OK...so kicking out all of the undocumented workers, which is impossible, would help us like the black plague helped the average worker because there were fewer of them. You do realize of course that this is a completely ignorant analogy, don't you? Even if I thought one dimensionally (which you have not shown) at least I still think within the realm of reality. The worldwide conditions are so different now(econonmically, health-wise, population distribution-wise, politically, etc) as compared to the early middle ages that the idea that you think there is any possible comparison makes me realize that you're stoned of your gourd. You're not thinking beyond one dimension, you're high.

[randalds]

You can sure keep beating that old drum but the bottom line is there are 300,000,000 of us we can sure show a few people the door. make that 299,999,999 minus the one who's too sacred and is spending all his time hand wringing.

Posted by Jameslouiky at 11:42 PM : Jul 29, 2007

There are not "a few" people to be "shown the door" like some house guests you wish would leave. There are 12 to 20 million human beings, the vast majority of whom do not want to leave. So unless you're going to resort to calling the army back from Iraq and violently rounding them up (which would be moral and political suicide in a democracy like ours) you're pissing in the wind. they're not going to leave willingly and the vast majority of the American people would turn on you the second TV shows one dead undocumented worker's child killed by trying to force them out. Again, put down the joint and come back to reality.

[knyghtwolf]

Remember the BIG "War on Drugs"? Administrative people were patting each other on the back about "victories" in stopping the big cartels & hurting them in their profits and such. In just ONE drug operation, the feds netted almost 5 million in drug operations including money, drugs and convictions, problem was the feds spent almost 30 million in total expenses. Hmmmm, spend 30 million to net 5 million in illegal drug trades, what's wrong with this picture? With all the issues going on in illegal immigration, who is REALLY listening to what's going on, and what is being done about it, why or why not, tell the truth here, and not speculate. REAL people want REAL answers. Civil and contiential wars are brewing in the horizon and somethings got to be done and soon because the alternative is not too pleasant at all as far as prospects go.

[njman4]

Blowhards arguing on blog sites accomplish nothing. Write your political reps, join numbersusa, do something to solve the problem of illegal immigration.

[jameslouiky]

RandalDS no Randal it's not Done with troops it's done slowly over time like I've already shown. You just have to make it uncomfortable for them, no jobs, no place to live cold shoulder wherever they go. In ten years no more problem. If you can think past last week you would see.

This tactic has been used successfully for centuries. Examples, You don't see the KKK having mass parades down every main street in the US anymore do you? You don't see Governors blocking schools anymore. You don't see water fountains with white only anymore. You don't see corporations dumping toxic chemicals into our rivers/streams anymore.

All of these things were accomplished with a information campaign and a few high profile arrests. They certainly didn%u2019t arrest EVERYONE as you suggest they would need to do. Like I said you%u2019re one dimensional thinker and general lack of history.