Debate Showcases Clinton-Obama Rivalry

Analysis: Showdown On Urban Issues Spotlights Intense Battle For Black Voters

(CBS)  This analysis was written by CBSNews.com's David Miller.

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Thursday night's Democratic debate had little in common with the two that preceded it besides the eight candidates on stage — the venue was in Washington; each hopeful got a crack at answering every question; no one was ever asked to raise their hands; and instead of focusing on Iraq, the questions revolved around issues like education, inner cities and racism.

But even though this debate was unlike those that came before it, the Democrats on stage seemed more comfortable and confident. They were in front of a crowd largely composed of blacks, who have been one of the Democratic Party’s most dependable voting blocs since the Depression. Also, they were addressing issues that have been the bread and butter of their party’s platform for decades.

Even the news events of the day allowed for an easy jumping-off point in a debate held at historically black Howard University, thanks to the Supreme Court’s 5-4 ruling that rejected racial integration plans in two school districts and could have sweeping effects nationwide.

Despite this most friendly atmosphere for Democrats, an intense battle was under way between Hillary Clinton, who has seen the support her ex-president husband enjoyed among blacks carry over to her campaign, and Barack Obama, perhaps the most viable black presidential candidate in U.S. history.

While Obama's appearance on the debate stage caused a swell in the opening applause in the auditorium, it was Clinton who drew the night's loudest cheers in discussing the spread of AIDS among black women. "If HIV-AIDS were the leading cause of death of white women between the ages of 25 and 34, there would be an outraged, outcry in this country," she said, prompting an enthusiastic audience response.

Throughout the evening, Clinton spoke with the forceful words and aggressive tone that, in previous debates, she used in discussing the war in Iraq and combating terrorism — two subjects that received scant attention in a forum almost entirely devoted to domestic, urban issues. When one international issue — the crisis in Sudan's Darfur region — was raised, however, she was quick to show she would not hesitate to use military force to enforce a no-fly zone over the country. "We should make it very clear to the government in Khartoum," she said. "We’re putting up a no-fly zone. If they fly into it, we will shoot down their planes. It's the only way to get their attention."

Obama, on the other hand, did something none of the other candidates, including Clinton, could do by emphasizing his membership in the black community. In his first words of the night, he invoked the Supreme Court's landmark decision in Brown v. Board of Education. "This is where Thurgood Marshall and the team from Brown crafted their strategy," he said, referring to the late justice who argued Brown before the Court prior to serving on it. "If it hadn't been for them, I would not be standing here today."

But Obama saved most talk about his common kinship with the audience for discussing HIV-AIDS, softly admonishing the black community for not being more open about the epidemic. "One of the things we've got to overcome is a stigma that still exists in our communities," he said. "We don't talk about this. We don't talk about it in the schools, sometimes we don't talk about it in the churches. It has been an aspect of, sometimes, our homophobia that we don't address this issue as clearly as it needs to be."

[uffdaron]

Typical pandering by Hillary saying that if Aids were the leading killer of white women between 20 and 30 something there would be an outrage implying that the white women were shifting this disease to others. What a bunch of low brow politics.

Does anyone in the Democratic party know how aids ravages a population and how to prevent the spread or is it the fault of George Bush?
Disgusting.

[infidel_us]

"I'm no ways tired.......Iz comes too farrrrrrrrr." - Hillary pandering to black clergy. Guess she's trying to pretend that she has "been to da mountain top and seen da promised land."

[huskerarmy]

"Typical pandering by Hillary saying that if Aids were the leading killer of white women between 20 and 30 something there would be an outrage..."
Posted by uffdaron
Typical righty response of denial and a pretense of equality.

[huskerarmy]

"...pretend that she has "been to da mountain top and seen da promised land."
Posted by infidel_us
"...to da mountain top..." Is that really how Dr. King spoke there infidel? Or is that really just you?

[texas468]

Sen. Gravel's responses were a hoot! I got a kick out of the whole thing......Very interesting debate....

[briannorwood]

Each time I see Barack Obama, I come away more impressed.

Hillary always seems to me to be a panderer.

[keeblers69]

Has anyone really seen a good presidential candidate out of all these flakes? I haven't seen any yet.

[gunownerdan]

Ron Paul is the only candidate I've seen so far who would actually obey the presidential oath of office to protect and defend the Constitution.

[pepperp1]

Funny I am the opposite, the more I see of Obama the less impressed I am he dose not have the presence in a crowd, and the more I see of Hillary the better she is looking screams competent. Edwards is a pass, same Richardson, not sure on my views about Dodd or Biden but cabinet positions may be plausible for them. On the Repug side a total pass no one looking good there. Bloomberg may be an interesting candidate. Glad it is a long way off.

And oh by the way, what politician does not pander, I haven't seen one, but she does have just the right position on most things I agree.

[heyswids]

i would like to see a debate where the moderator FORCED (by keeping on question) the candidate to answer the question at hand; without all the other BS

[texas468]

Or without them saying, "You know I love you, but....."

[funkiwiteboy]

i've got a horrible hangover but i still think hillery is married to a lieing pervert how many lives have they ruined by their abuse of intrusted power. like 50 have died of questionable causes

[lawandorder7]

I hope Hillary wins. If Obama wins, all of you who vote for him, make sure you live with your vote and go down with the rest of us. It will be a sad day in the US and we will go down, real fast.

[funkiwiteboy]

i wish colin powell were runnin

[throwdown78]

As a member of the Black community I am infuriated by Hillary%u2019s constant pandering to minority groups. Last week in D.C she was kissing up to Hispanics using the immigration bill as her peace offering. Earlier this year she was in a Carolina church preaching to a Black congregation about the struggles in the Black community. When will this woman realize she is not her husband? The Black community is not going to put her on a pedestal just because her last name is Clinton. To all the candidates trying to win the Black vote, including Barack Obama; just tell us what you have done to help the Black community. Don%u2019t compliment us on being %u201Cclean cut%u201D or remind us of the press conference you help in the lower 9th ward after Hurricane Katrina. List the facts; tell us what you have done, give us your plan for the future and how all of us as American can get there. Because the 9th ward has not changed since your press conference ended Mr. Edwards.

[jack3213]

For one, are we going to remember the specifics of this debate six months from now? If we do, we should be impressed with ourselves. For two, the fact that the audience was primarily black and the topic of AIDS was a prominant subject strikes me a bit curious: Is Clinton saying that if it were young women with aids they would be noticed more? What a cheap shot. Do remember, folks, she voted for the immigration bill. Tell your friends. PS. I am strong believer that if Fred Thomson officially runs, he will win.

[infidel_us]

Or is that really just you?
Posted by huskerarmy at 09:11 AM : Jun 29, 2007

In all honesty, I really can't remember. It's probably "tha." Given the poor fidelity of the video at the time, it sounds to my ear like "da"....but it's probably just me being prejudiced. :)

[gunownerdan]

Will Americans be dumb enough to let the Bush/Clinton crime families buy their votes once again????

[realpatriot1]

huskerarmy,

Infidel is milking the fact that when Hillary went to Alabama to attend the commemoration of the Selma March she pandered to the crowd by effecting a phony southern accent. It was pretty crass and showed her general pandering nature but was no worse than Guliani pandering to the Confederate flag wavers in South Carolina(a divisive issue that the state had recently reached a compromise on).

He should just go fawn over his own candidates, they apparently have no flaws.

[infidel_us]

throwdown78,

So true. There is SO MUCH involving race that goes unsaid. So much resentment and mistrust running below the facade of "can't we all just get along" and political correctness.

A real cards on the table, honest dialog is needed, and we will never have it. No candidate, republican or democrat, has the stones to bring it up.

We're a lot like an egg left in the sun. Looks great on the outside, but stinks like a mo-fo on the inside! :)

[realpatriot1]

throwdown78,

Excellent post! It's rare that anyone of these candidates(or anyone on this blog,for that matter) talks about the future and where we go from here.

So far, all these candidates are doing nothing more than pandering to their base to raise funds and staff their campaigns with activists, and occasionally holding a photo opp to show that they care, but forget specifics.

That's why i'm not supporting or eliminating anyone yet(on the democratic side that is).

[infidel_us]

He should just go fawn over his own candidates, they apparently have no flaws.
Posted by realpatriot1 at 10:08 AM : Jun 29, 2007

I have "fawned" over them......I don't see ONE worth my vote. Some are higher on the food chain than others, but Rudy G is NOT one of them. Neither is McCain.

In his defense, at least Rudy didn't sitck a wad of chew in his mouth and pretend he had a southern drawal.

[prinzowhales]

It is telling..."a frowning Sharpton"...the Establishment's race-baiting clown...the buffoon who showed up in Durham North Carolina to inflame an already tense situation arising from the lies of a stripper...the lies that she was raped by the Duke Lacrosse team...tests showed that she had intercourse that night with just about everyone else in Durham BUT those young men.

Devil take Sharpton's smiling face, the plagirist Biden, 'Cattle Futures Payola' Clinton, 'Blast Iran for Israel' Obama, New World Order Richardson, "My Daddy had to Work" Edwards.

Now, how much discussion was there about gunning down of black children in Los Angeles by Latinos who vow to drive blacks and whites from the city? See LA's radio host, Terry Anderson for the details on what is really going on in the 'Other America' that tea-sipping Establishment types like to chat about from the perspective of Park Avenue.

[infidel_us]

In his defense, at least Rudy didn't sitck a wad of chew in his mouth and pretend he had a southern drawal.
Posted by infidel_us at 10:20 AM : Jun 29, 2007

Oh, and he didn't quote from negro spirituals in a fake black accent......like he was part of the struggle or something. That is race baiting and pandering to a nauseating degree. Even below a democrat's dignity! :)

[infidel_us]

Prinzowhales,

Like I said....so much resentment lies beneath the facade. And no one contributess to the dialog....the democrat candidates only fan the flames or racial strife for political gain.

If they only realized the damage they are doing. Too selfish to see it, I guess.

[realpatriot1]

infidel,

OK, I took a bit of a cheap shot.

Actually, I'd like to see Rudy with the wad of tobacco, it might be as much fun as Kerry in a wetsuit.

[bogusbones]

Kucinich was the only one bold enough to tell the audience the real truth about the war - that it is crippling the country. He is not getting his just due in the media. The man has a message and all the press can do is continue to work the Clinton/Obama rivalry.

[nottellin1]

Does anyone other than me think that Hilary's Presidential run and maybe her Senate seat was promised by the Democratic party as pay back for her standing by Bill when he was in the White House? I think it is a possibility.

[texas468]

"Does anyone other than me think that Hilary's Presidential run and maybe her Senate seat was promised by the Democratic party as pay back for her standing by Bill when he was in the White House? I think it is a possibility. "
Posted by nottellin1 at 10:48 AM : Jun 29, 2007

nottellin1 - those are JUICY ponderings there!!!!

[vancouverboo]

Tweedleedum vs. Tweedledee.

They both voted in favor of the ******* amnesty bill.

They both care more about Mexicans and the Rich People than they do about America.

A pox on both their houses.

[dan9111]

It is time for conservatives to seriously consider voting in the Democratic primary. If it is safe to say a "third party" is off-the-table, and voting for one is "throwing your vote away", the similarly conservatives should do something beside waste their time.

On the other had, the Democrats have plenty of time to self-destruct before the election. What a waste of our money.

[prinzowhales]

Americans have real candidates in both major parties: Mike Gravel and Dennis Kucinich in the Democratic Party; Ron Paul in the Republican. If Americans haven't had a bellyfull of the 'mainstream' war party candidates, then they can continue to see their borders overrun, their children tagged and bagged or crippled for life in the Stupid Peoples' War until their children get sick and tired of being IED fodder for Oil and Israel and take a terrible and just vengence on the Regime that put them through this 'ell.

If Ohio had not been stolen from Kerry last time, we would have had a president whose policies were even more bellicose than those of Bush. You can either vote for what the MSM calls the "fringe" or you can vote to continue the wars that the MSM supported from the outset with lies, lies and more lies.

[mcdonaj3]

It was reassuring to learn that both Obama and Biden have been tested for HIV. Is this some sort of liberal "red badge of courage"?

[throwdown78]

If any of the candidates want to effectively tackle the race issue in America, they will need to bring the American people together as one. I don%u2019t care what the numbers illustrate; AIDS is a virus that affects all communities without discrimination or prejudice with the common denominator being humanity. With that said; research and funding for education on how to prevent the spread is needed. Not Hillary%u2019s pandering or Mr. Biden%u2019s %u201CI got tested%u201D so I am clean statement. Far as race baiting in politics, just because %u201Cthey all do it%u201D that should not make it the status quo. I feel once a politician or candidate has played the race card or %u201Cwent there%u201D, his or her integrity needs to be questioned. In this day and age it is far too easy for a candidate to bring up race issues to get five minutes of fame. The new statue quo should be if you bring up race, you should be required to also provide a solution to the problem. That would eliminate this constant pandering by the wife of former President Clinton.

[mcdonaj3]

It was reassuring to learn that both Biden and Obama have been tested or HIV. Is this some sort of liberal "red badge of courage"?

[prinzowhales]

If you think that mainstream Democratic candidates are going to move away from "business as usual" in the Stupid Peoples' War, then you learned nothing from the 2006 elections where the war pig, Rahm Emanuel chaired the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. From this office he funneled funds to war pig Democrats and torpedoed funding for peace candidates.

The 'mainstream' has become a running sewer-- step out of it and support real candidates for the American people. The same media that told you there were WMDS in Iraq, that Saddam was working on a nuclear weapon, that he had ties with al Qaeda...they are the same trash denigrating Paul, Gravel and Kucinich as "fringe" candidates.

[gunownerdan]

Clinton has more support from big money so she will be able to buy more votes than Obama.

[infidel_us]

Actually, I'd like to see Rudy with the wad of tobacco, it might be as much fun as Kerry in a wetsuit.
Posted by realpatriot1 at 10:38 AM : Jun 29, 2007

You know what...YOU'RE RIGHT!!! LOL

[ajmarine1]

Prinzowhales,

"If Ohio had not been stolen from Kerry last time"

I live in Ohio, It was not stolen from Kery; he lost.

[ajmarine1]

"it was Clinton who drew the night's loudest cheers in discussing the spread of AIDS among black women. "If HIV-AIDS were the leading cause of death of white women between the ages of 25 and 34, there would be an outraged, outcry in this country," she said, prompting an enthusiastic audience response."

If Black men were not running around and having unprotected *** with every woman they can their hands on, maybe there wouldn't be so many Black women with HIV-AIDS.

Another thing, it wasn't just Black people effected by Katrina, white people lived there too.

[red164]

Mike Gravel for President

Our founders' legacy did not stop Hillary from voting for the Patriot Act and then supporting its renewal in 2006 despite revelations that the government was using it to infringe on the very liberties that our founders held sacred. Where was her commitment to our founders when she voted to gut our habeas corpus protections?

As for cronyism -- Hillary has repeatedly authorized billions that the Pentagon gave in no-bid contracts to Halliburton. Even though the Democrats have been in control of Congress for months, they still haven't summoned Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld and the other usual suspects to account for the missing millions in reconstruction funding.

When I think about how Congress enabled Bush's corruption and cronyism, I'm reminded of the lines from Shakespeare's Julius Caesar:

And why should Caesar be a tyrant then?
Poor man! I know he would not be a wolf,
But that he sees the Romans are but sheep:
He were no lion, were not Romans hinds.

[red164]

Former Senator Mike Gravel: Why Hillary Scares Me
June 25, 2007

During one of the debates I mentioned that my fellow Democratic candidates scare me. Hillary's speech last week to the Take Back America conference gives me yet another reason to be afraid.

In an indignant voice she decried the Bush administration's ''stunning record of secrecy and corruption, of cronyism run amok. . . It is everything our founders were afraid of, everything our Constitution was designed to prevent.'' Actually, our Constitution grants Congress the power to prevent these ills but Hillary and her colleagues weren't up to the task.

[realpatriot1]

AJMarine1,

Poll workers in Cuyahoga County have been criminally convicted for not counting all vote. Voting
machines were disproportionately unavailable in Cuyahoga County(the most highly Democratic county in the U.S. and the most populous in the state) and in college communities that vote heavily Democratic while affluent areas in the suburbs had extra machines but no effort was made all day to move them. The electronic machines mandated by The Secretary of State who was Bush's state campaign manager and who refused to recuse himself were manufactured by a comapny owned by a top Bush contributor. ALL voting problems involving undercounts involved these machines.

Maybe the vote wasn't stolen, but I hope we never have aonther election run like that.

We now know from Monica Goodling's sworn testimony and the Rove e-mails that've surfaced that The White House was involved in stealing votes in Florida during the 2004 election..we have it straight from Karl Rove. They sent targeted mailings to the homes of African-American soldiers serving in Iraq marked "do not forward",knowing that the mail would come back. When it did they challenged their registrations so they could have their votes thrown out.

Of course,even though the smoking gun is readily available to the media they aren't reporting it.

They may not have stole Ohio but the evidence shows they were trying to steal Florida again.

[red164]

Mike Gravel for President

The inability to admit a mistake and assume responsibility is not just a morally bankrupt way to walk through life; it is a dangerous and deadly way to lead a nation. When I am president, I will open up all secret files relating to the Iraq war and expose all officials who lied to the public in promoting it. (That's right, *** Cheney, your files too.) My Justice Department will prosecute everyone who lied under oath or ripped off the American taxpayer by exploiting the Iraq reconstruction effort. And I will pardon to no one.

[prinzowhales]

AJ Marine-- People have already been prosecuted for elements of this crime. Kerry, with millions in his campaign chest let a theft worse than the 2000 election go by with hardly a protest...even feckless Al Gore put up a fight in 2000. Here's the evidence that Ohio was stolen. Its not going to change anything-- any more than the fact that the 16th Amendment was never ratified is going to make the feds give up the income tax.

http://ohioelection2004.com/evidence.htm

[red164]

Evidence Of A Stolen ElectionMiller describes considerably more election fraud than voting machines ... The outcome of the 2004 presidential election has always struck me as strange. ...
www.rense.com/general69/evi.htm - 26k - Cached - Similar pages

Cover-Up Of 2000 And 2004 Florida Vote ContinuesThis system of fraud, if still in place, can be used again in the 2004 general election this coming Tuesday, November 2. Dr. Piotr Blass, a U.S. senatorial ...
www.rense.com/general59/FLORID.HTM - 16k - Cached - Similar pages

Something Is Rotten In DenmarkFirst, he was able to sample 2004 exit poll data that was not meant to be .... The untouchable topic is that election fraud rather than gay marriage turned ...
www.rense.com/general59/weu.htm - 25k - Cached - Similar pages

Tell Tale SignsAn Associated Press article, dated November 28, 2004, stated that President ... In the United States, cries of election fraud are still in their infancy. ...
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Purposely Corrupted Diebold Voting TerminalsFindings:; The GEMS central tabulator program is incorrectly designed and highly vulnerable to fraud. Election results can be changed in a matter of seconds ...
www.rense.com/general59/diebold.htm - 21k - Cached - Similar pages

[ajmarine1]

Prinzowhales,

This is something I found.

Steal our votes and you've stolen democracy, July 12, 2006
By Robert Moore (Chicago, IL USA)

So if votes were stolen, how were they? This is a harder question to answer. We know that there was vast voter suppression on the part of the GOP, but actual theft of votes is more in the way of speculation. The data definitely suggests THAT votes were stolen but does not describe HOW it was stolen. The book describes many ways that the votes could have been stolen.

[donnie900]

You listen to me you liberals. I saw that dag gum debate, and it was disgusting!

[ajmarine1]

realpatriot,

"Of course,even though the smoking gun is readily available to the media they aren't reporting it."

It just blows my mind, if stuff like this is happening, and it seems from what you say, everyone knows it; it should be headline news and people should be going to jail, but in Congress,for the last two months,
they have been going on about some attorneys being fired, go figure.

[donnie900]

Dag gum nodding committee meeting.. "uh-huh uh-huh.. agree.. clap. Nod.. nod nod.." Buncha bullshyyt.

Do you guys do dope before the meeting?