Bush Pushes Vietnam Leader On Human Rights

Hundreds Protest Outside White House As Nguyen Minh Triet Makes Historic Visit

(CBS/AP)  As hundreds of protestors across the street called for the release of political prisoners in Vietnam, President Bush voiced similar concerns at the end of his Oval Office meeting with Vietnamese President Nguyen Minh Triet.

"In order for relations to grow deeper, that it's important for our friends to have a strong commitment to human rights and freedom and democracy," he said.

The Vietnamese leader said he's willing to discuss those matters — but hopes they don't impair the larger overall relationship with the U.S., CBS News White House correspondent Mark Knoller reports.

Neither leader took questions during the appearance.

Triet is the first leader of his country to visit the White House since the end of the Vietnam War. But some fellow Vietnamese were not rolling out the welcome mat.

Hundreds were outside the White House carrying the flag of the old South Vietnam, as well as banners calling the Vietnamese president a criminal. CBS News correspondent Peter Maer says it was certainly one of the largest demonstrations against a visiting foreign leader in Washington in a long time.

"The young generation, they just want freedom, they just want freedom of speech, they just want freedom of expression," one woman told Maer.

"Minh Triet, go home! Minh Triet, go home!" others shouted.

Republican lawmakers have urged Mr. Bush to encourage President Triet to make stronger efforts to stop what they describe as widespread abuse of Vietnam's citizens.

"Societies are enriched when people are allowed to express themselves freely or worship freely," Mr. Bush said in the Oval Office after the meeting with Triet.

Mr. Bush said he told Triet, "We want to have good relations with Vietnam."

As dozens of protesters outside the White House waved flags, Triet said the two presidents had a "direct and open" conversation about human rights.

"Our approach is that we would increase our dialogue so that we will have a better understanding of each other," Triet said through an interpreter.

He said he is determined not to let differences on the issue damage overall relations.

Triet has attempted to keep the focus on vibrant trade ties between the United States and one of Asia's fastest-growing economies. The countries began a bilateral trade agreement in 2001; trade reached nearly $10 billion last year.

Triet is leading a delegation of more than 100 Vietnamese businessmen. He signed with the United States on Thursday a Trade and Investment Framework Agreement, which sometimes acts as a road map to eventual free trade negotiations.

But during an hour-long private meeting Thursday, senior U.S. lawmakers repeatedly took Triet to task for claims by rights groups that Vietnam has ramped up repression of political activists and religious leaders.

"Human rights was overwhelmingly the dominant issue," Republican Rep. Ed Royce said. "We've got to see a stop to this conduct if this relationship is going to improve."

When asked about Triet's response, Royce answered: "Evasion."

Vietnam tolerates no challenges to Communist one-party rule; it insists, however, that only lawbreakers are jailed. In recent months, Vietnam has arrested or sentenced at least eight pro-democracy activists, including a dissident Roman Catholic priest who was sentenced to eight years in prison.

Rep. Roy Blunt, the No. 2 House Republican, said Triet told lawmakers that Vietnam "had lots of human rights, but the dissidents were somehow endangering the security of the country. We pressed hard for more information about exactly what that means."

Triet, in a speech to business leaders before the congressional meeting, avoided any mention of human rights. He called for more U.S. business investment in his fast-growing country and said the government was working hard to smooth out difficulties that some U.S. companies have experienced.

"We will do our best to help you," Triet told the audience. "We are striving to create a friendly business environment."

Triet said talk of the war was outdated. "Vietnam is peace. Vietnam is friendship. Vietnam is developing dynamically and creatively," he said through an interpreter.

Sherman Katz, a senior associate in international trade at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, said Vietnam has "got to be aware that part of the price of doing business with the United States, if you expect the U.S. government to help you, is to clean up some of these" human rights problems.

In Los Angeles, Triet's next stop, hundreds of protesters, most of them Vietnamese émigrés critical of the communist leader and his government's human rights record, are expected to demonstrate.

[realpatriot1]

Good for Bush. Now we need to say the same thing to China, we want good relations but we want them to stop enslaving their people.

We should also be asking both countries to open up their prisons for international inspections. I don't expect that would ever happen; I wouldn't be surprised if some of out P.O.W.s aren't still languishing in Chna or Laos or hidden prisons in Vietnam.

[space_poet]

We are secretly imprisoning supposed 'enemy combatants', advocating the use of torture, extraordinary renditions, opting out of the Geneva Conventions, pulled from the International War Crimes Court, bombing anything that happens to get in the way, invading and illegally occupying a sovereign nation, backing despots around the globe, and this President scolds someone else on their human rights violations, just unbelievable...

[randalds]

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!!!

[kevboom]

Meanwhile at Abu Ghirab and Guantanamo...

[randalds]

Meanwhile at Abu Ghirab and Guantanamo...
Posted by kevboom at 03:14 PM : Jun 22, 2007

Amen. Bush and Cheney "get off" on torture.

[t_ham]

Amen kevboom

[sharncedar]

Hold on a minute, all of you are taking little Georgie's lecture seriously - obviously it was staged for the cameras. Little Georgie and the butcher of Vietnam are exactly on the same page with regards to human rights, or as they call it personnel rights, which is that the little people like us have no rights and ought not to have rights, other than to slave for corporations until our bodies gve out, then to die quietly without pensions or health care or retirement benefits. This is the corporate line, the globalist line, and Vietnam is ahead of the US on this one. As soon as the cameras go away, it goes back to talks on "trade" which means how can the same corporations institute a Vietnam-like prison camp here in the US. They are good chums when the cameras leave, partners in globalization.

[sharncedar]

"He signed with the United States on Thursday a Trade and Investment Framework Agreement,"

That's what actually happened, another agreement to undercut American workers and bring them to such poverty and pain they will accept Vietnam-style treatment. Georgie is moving full steam ahead with the global race to the bottom, using Vietnam to attack American's standard of living again. If you talk to these rich folks and bankers and such, they openly admit that the "big problem" is that Americans have too high of a standard of living, and too many expectations about human rights and rights and so forth, they sue too often when injured on the job, they don't want to work 100 hour weeks for subsistence pay without health care, etc. The talk about human rights is Bush's cr*p, an attempt to disguise the agreement he just signed to further destroy America's prosperity and civilization, his agreement signed in the blood of Americans now and to come. His document of betrayl of a nation, of course he throws BS smoke out there about "human rights". If he were serious, he wouldn't have just signed another giveaway trade deal with one of our historic enemies.

[pepperp1]

Poll results show only 26 percent approval rating which puts Bush lower than Jimmy Carter....lol,... Oh please the Shrub lecturing someone else on rights. He should resign and save the tax payer the cost for those 24 White House lawyers he just hired to keep him in office until Jan 09 and out of jail.

[antoniof123]

What is wrong with this picture.

[hypnotoad72]

guyfrompa45 - I agree with your points. Now read what SharnCedar said just after you made your comments.

If you ask me, the truth is in the middle.

[forthepeopl1]

GO AHEAD AMERICA, BOW TO YOUR DICTATORS. TIME TO TAKE ACTON AMERICA,BEFORE WE LOSE EVERYTHING
ALL OUR RIGHTS AS AMERICANS ARE ONLY GOOD IF YOU DONT TIP OVER THE SCUM.


the people party is here already,are you ready

JULY 21 2007 IS WHEN AMERICANS WILL BE FREE AGAIN

EVERYONE THAT WANTS TO HELP WITH THIS SHOULD BE TALKING TO ALL MEDIA OUTLETS AND TELLING THEM THAT AMERICANS ARE READY TO TAKE WASHINGTON ON AND ITS NOT A FEW AMERICANS ITMILLIONS OF AMERICANS THAT WILL TAKE BACK THERE COUNTRY..

I AM WILLING TO GIVE MY BLOOD FOR ALL AMERICANS TO GET OUR COUNTRY BACK TO WHAT OUR FORFATHERS WANTED.

AM A VET AND AM READY TO TAKE CHARGE OF THIS AMERICAN BOYCOT/COOP IF WE THE PEOPLE DONT DO THIS NOW WE WILL BE GIVENING UP ON OUR CONSTITUTION AND WHAT ALL OUR VET HAVE DIED FOR..

DAVID A BELANGER,VET US ARMY,[e-mail]

ok so wants to join in on this great american REVOLUTION


they cant kill millions of americans at once so if we charge them all at once we will win and take them out and hang them all..

just like in the old days of the west...hang them from the trees in front of the whitehouse and see how many start telling the truth about what they have done to all us americans..


if the american NOW dont stand up and start a NATIONAL REVOUTION ON THIS WASHINGTON BULL S/H/I/T/ THEN we as TRUE AMERICANS can say nothing!!!

its time to take all this *** and take our government back now..

[bushduh]

What a load of you know what. All of this human right BS. I don't see Gorgie and all of the demonstrators talk about what they're going to do clean up the land of Vietnam that has been soaked with Agent Orange which is the cause of millions of birth defects.

http://www.vietnamfriendship.org/

Dumping chemicals on civilian areas is crime against humanity and forget about the human rights yadiya. Triet was weak not to push back with this question. Abu Ghirab, Guantanamo,& blatant labeling of anyone as a terrorist as they wish...and we are talking about human rights? Give me a break. What hypocrysts. Just like the US wanting to disarming Iran's nuclear weapon. Why don't we disarm ourselves and Isreal's nuclear weapon arsenals before calling these countries to disarm. In fact we continue to build new type of nuclear weapons.

[tuckerndfw]

George Bush lecturing others on "human rights" is similar to Al Capone lecturing on the evils of bootlegging and tax evasion.

If Bush wasn't the president of the US, the irony of the headline would be hilarious.

[rickstas]

Bush and Company sure have a lot of nerve lectureing anybody about human rights, freedom or democracy!

[aaabee-2009]

"Societies are enriched when people are allowed to express themselves freely or worship freely."
President Bush

...as long as they aren't liberals......

[jntlw-2009]

Bush is shameless and so ignorant! If I was the premier of Vietnam I would laugh in his face. Go home George and attempt to try Human Rights at home first. How about GITMO Mr. Bush? Try some human rights out there - like habeas corpus or right to an attorney! How about revoking any use of torture, and use the definition of torture used by the Geneva standards - and not the humiliating Bush standards. Start there!

[aaabee-2009]

All you liberals do is complain how bad this counrty is. How dare you. Posted by guyfrompa45 at 03:24 PM : Jun 22, 2007

Applause! Well put.

Almost as good as Mother England when the pilgrims left for America.

Almost as good as the South when it wanted to secede from the rest of this nation.

Almost as good as the conservatives when blacks wanted the right to vote.

Almost.

"Do everyone a favor and move to a counrty where you have no rights , no freedom and no protection...."

We won't have to, if we don't keep fighting the GOP, that will be America in a few years.

And..."I have never seen a bigger bunch of morons then I have on this site. Posted by guyfrompa45 at 03:11 PM : Jun 22, 2007

Yes, you have. There is one in your bathroom mirror. Thanks for seeing that not everyone gets the same opportunites as you do, even in this country. And thanks for not being willing to make life better for anyone. If you want the complaints to end, start with your own mouth.

[forthepeopl1]

GO AHEAD AMERICA, BOW TO YOUR DICTATORS. TIME TO TAKE ACTON AMERICA,BEFORE WE LOSE EVERYTHING
ALL OUR RIGHTS AS AMERICANS ARE ONLY GOOD IF YOU DONT TIP OVER THE SCUM.


the people party is here already,are you ready

JULY 21 2007 IS WHEN AMERICANS WILL BE FREE AGAIN

EVERYONE THAT WANTS TO HELP WITH THIS SHOULD BE TALKING TO ALL MEDIA OUTLETS AND TELLING THEM THAT AMERICANS ARE READY TO TAKE WASHINGTON ON AND ITS NOT A FEW AMERICANS ITMILLIONS OF AMERICANS THAT WILL TAKE BACK THERE COUNTRY..

I AM WILLING TO GIVE MY BLOOD FOR ALL AMERICANS TO GET OUR COUNTRY BACK TO WHAT OUR FORFATHERS WANTED.

AM A VET AND AM READY TO TAKE CHARGE OF THIS AMERICAN BOYCOT/COOP IF WE THE PEOPLE DONT DO THIS NOW WE WILL BE GIVENING UP ON OUR CONSTITUTION AND WHAT ALL OUR VET HAVE DIED FOR..

DAVID A BELANGER,VET US ARMY,[e-mail]

ok so wants to join in on this great american REVOLUTION


they cant kill millions of americans at once so if we charge them all at once we will win and take them out and hang them all..

just like in the old days of the west...hang them from the trees in front of the whitehouse and see how many start telling the truth about what they have done to all us americans..


if the american NOW dont stand up and start a NATIONAL REVOUTION ON THIS WASHINGTON BULL S/H/I/T/ THEN we as TRUE AMERICANS can say nothing!!!

its time to take all this *** and take our government back now..

[gkc99]

"The Vietnamese leader said he's willing to discuss those matters %u2014 but hopes they don't impair the larger overall relationship with the U.S."

Not to worry, we'll have some of the usual Bushspeak, then the exodus of US jobs to Asia will continue, the rights and conditions of US citizens will continue to deteriorate, and Bushit's handlers will continue to have their way.

Still, there is a bit of sulfur in the air when Bushit dares to lecture about human rights--the Devil quoting Scripture?

[randalds]

Posted by forthepeopl1 at 06:06 PM : Jun 22, 2007

Personally I can't wait until AFTER July 21, so we don't have to put up with you spamming every thread no matter the topic with this sh*it! We get your point dumbas*s now cut it out! Or at least confine it to on topic threads!!!

I hate Bush too, but there's about as much chance that you're going to start a one man revolution as there is of pigs (Rove) flying!

[aaabee-2009]

Oh, Randal. Just a touch gentler on forthepeople? Pretty please?

On a blog peppered with trolls, toads, and seven-pesos, our brother-in-arms is trying to take the higher road as best he can.

Let him fight the good fight?

:)

[randalds]

Posted by AaaBee at 06:51 PM : Jun 22, 2007

(sigh) I know AaaBee, but man it's gets frustrating paging through his posting the same thing over and over and over. I mean I agree with his position, but yee gods! Give it a rest once in awhile!

Still, out of deference to your request, I'll leave him alone. (I'll still be happy when the 21st has passed though).

;-)

[aaabee-2009]

Randal, straight to the head of the "Cool Dude" line, you.

[sevenveils]

Oh yeah, Bush, like you have room to speak.

[randalds]

Randal, straight to the head of the "Cool Dude" line, you.
Posted by AaaBee at 07:06 PM : Jun 22, 2007

Now you're going to make me blush. Be careful, swingingdick said it was my goal to be voted "Most Popular" on this site. I told him if that were true then I wouldn't have declared myself pro-amnesty on immigration! LOL! Still if he hates me (Or loves and prays for me) then I must be doing ok.

[starleo146]

I can tell you honestly I have never seen such an administration in my life, having hanky panky with Viet Nam. I honestly believe these guys would sell their mothers for a buck, the h*e*ll with the country they took an oath to defend, along with to obey the constitution. I believe they have both gone MAD. Can we declare them incompetent maybe?

[tucano2]

And where are at least 800 MIA USA aviators?

[aaabee-2009]

It was the first visit to the White House by a Vietnamese leader since the end of the Vietnam War. "


Bah, seems we let anyone into the White House these days. And let them wipe their feet on our constitution. Money and a good excuse is the Free Access Pass of the New Millenium.

Bastids.

[space_poet]

Dear Mr guyfrompa45, and anyone else that thinks we only imprison terrorists, here is your lesson for the day.

Most of the detainees still at Guantanamo are not scheduled for trial. As of November 2006, according to MSNBC.com, out of 775 detainees who have been brought to Guantanamo, approximately 340 have been released, leaving 435 detainees. Of those 435, 110 have been labeled as ready for release. Of the other 325, only "more than 70" will face trial, the Pentagon says. That leaves about 250 who may be held indefinitely - Source-wiki

I think if they were all terrorists, we wouldn't be letting them go, now would we?

And you see how I did that without calling you an idiot? I respect your counter opinions, but I tend to check my facts...

[freedomtalks]

Ask Mr. Minh Triet what does FREEDOM mean to him?

[wogerwabbit]

As a product of the Vietnam era army, many years ago I used to find it amusing to go up to people of Asian decent, look them in the eyes and in my most threatening and grizzled voice say, "Didn't I kill your brother?" and watch the emotions play through their heads.

Today, I'm a lot mellower and think it's a good thing that after 30 some years we should be talking to the Vietnamese on an equal level again. Unfortunately though, we're talking down to them as we talk down to everyone who isn't the worlds last remaining superpower.

In this ignoble point in American history, for Bush to be spouting off about Human Rights to the Vietnamese is one of the most hipocritical examples of political hipocracy I have ever witnessed. God bless 'em, Bush has got to be dumb as a bag of rocks to even bring up the subject.

Nonetheless, I'm praying our dipstick in chief stays alive, incontinent or otherwise, for at least another couple of years, lest the mad monk himself Cheney, get his hands on the Constitution.

[randalds]

Remember when they told us for years how if we left Vietnam "before the job was finished", we'd be fighting the Commies in Mainstreet USA??? Now we're sitting down to tea with them and China, (still Commies, dim-bulbs), is our largest trading partner and holder of most of our debt.

Posted by veteran71 at 09:51 PM : Jun 22, 2007

And of course these days we have a slightly different version of idiots preaching the destruction of America, except in this case it's loonies like swingingdick moaning that there's a Muslim terrorist in every closet, instead of the red under every bed from the 50's and 60's. the communists were supposed to defeat us back then and they did not. Yet these days we're told that in order for us to defeat this new threat we have to surrender all of our rights and freedoms to the government so they can protect them for us and that they'll give them all back when it's "safe'. Yeah. Right. This time the ones who are the biggest threat to us live in the White House, not Hanoi, Moscow or Beijing.

[cozzicon]

"Nonetheless, I'm praying our dipstick in chief stays alive, incontinent or otherwise, for at least another couple of years, lest the mad monk himself Cheney, get his hands on the Constitution." -- Posted by WogerWabbit

Amen... Brother preach it!

I'm not a praying man, but I'll pray for that just in case.

[cdfoxtrot]

"Bush Pushes Vietnam Leader On Human Rights".
What's this idiot up to now? He's going to p*ss off one of the few international heads who isn't already steamed at us. And I would think the "Vietnam leader" would have a thing or two to push Bushie on, in terms of human rights (Guantanamo, use of the death penalty in US states, Iraq prison abuse, torture of terror "suspects", flying detainees to overseas torture centers, and so on). Where does Bushie get off on lecturing ANYONE on human rights?

[maedean]

I hope all you people who voted for this idiot are proud of yourselfs. Never in the history of the US has there been such a looser for president.

[brianbwb-2009]

Ron Paul or Dennis Kucinich are the only alternatives.
Everyone else is already bought and paid for.
Posted by veteran71

Feel ya, Bro, except I don't yet believe Paul or Kucinich is untouchable, they just haven't been made the "offer they can't refuse".

The real power behind Bush (Bechtel, Halliburton, Carlysle, etc.) has enough money to buy anyone, even us. Those firms should be liquidated if any president is to stand a chance of not being bought.

[feelfree1]

Re: "Bush Pushes Vietnam Leader On Human Rights"

The Bush puppet-Fuhrer (heil) talking about human rights!

That is rich!

[brianbwb-2009]

to "WogerWabbit"

"used to find it amusing to go up to people of Asian decent, look them in the eyes and in my most threatening and grizzled voice say, "Didn't I kill your brother?" and watch the emotions play through their heads."

Vietnam's Rumsfeld, McNamara, has himself admitted that the Vietnam threat was also based on lies, and also an unnecessary war.

There were those who knew it then, and protested, but were called "pinkos", "dirty hippies", "the lost generation", etc., turns out we were right all along.

Knowing what you now know, do you still take pleasure in retraumatising Asians, or have any regret for doing so, knowing you just might have killed someones' brother, and for no good reason?

[sharncedar]

"Triet is leading a delegation of more than 100 Vietnamese businessmen."

"He signed with the United States on Thursday a Trade and Investment Framework Agreement,"

Do you folks even read the articles. Trust me, this event has nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing whatsoever to do with human rights. The "human rights" angle means nothing at all, it is a smokescreen to get really, really, really stupid people like yourselves to ignore the actual purpose of the Vietnam butcher's visit, which is to get a massive new trade concession from the United States. Which they got. They came here to sign a document giving them more access to take American jobs. They did that. The "human rights" talk is nothing, its not a document, its not genuine, its for the cameras only. Did ya even read the article?

"Triet is leading a delegation of more than 100 Vietnamese businessmen."

What about that don't you get? Do you really actually think anyone in America's leadership is concerned about "human rights" in Vietnam? They are concerned about getting reelected, and to get reelected, they need money from business, and business wants a free trade agreement with Vietnam. So the butcher of Vietnam came here to meet with businesses and sign an agreement.

[toldyouso21]

Torture/Gitmo/rendition/WP on civilian boy pushing for human rights? Almost as hypocritical as him and Blair pretending to be brokers for peace in the Middle East while giving Israel bombs to kill civilians in Lebanon.

[my2centss]

Let's stop worrying about human rights in Cuba, Vietnam, Venezuela, and the rest until we stop supporting the biggest violator of them all China.

[oldpilot954]

I keep hearing two themes in this thread -- Gitmo and money. While I do not approve or in anyway condone the mistreatment of prisoners, I know of no past war or conflict when such things did not occur. This isn't something Bush dreamed up -- he just didn't stop it when he should have. We have information reporting today that was not available in the past. When the Cherokees were pushed out of their homes in the late 1840s, or Sherman marched to the sea during the civil war, or the Native Americans were captured in the west, or people of German descent were abused during WWI, or people of Japanese descent were held in WWII nobody really knew about it and most (as today) didn't care. That doesn't mean we shouldn't change it but let's drop this idea that it is new. It's just more formalized and better reported now.
As for financial motivation -- I was mad when we opened trade with China and I'll probably be mad about Vietnam too. But if I want to buy my new shirt for $15 instead of $45, someone in a foreign country is going to be enslaved. You can't pay union wages and deliver a product as cheap as we can buy them now. Until America's social conscience gets so sensitive that it says "I" will do without new clothes and live within my income, people in other countries wiil have to work in the sweatshops of the world.

[hungry1968]

"Triet has attempted to keep the focus on vibrant trade ties between the United States and one of Asia's fastest-growing economies. The countries began a bilateral trade agreement in 2001; trade reached nearly $10 billion last year."

Oh good - another trade deficit for the US. Pretty soon we won't be exporting any of our products anywhere.


"In order for relations to grow deeper, that it's important for our friends to have a strong commitment to human rights and freedom and democracy," he said.

Bush said that? Did he get hit by lightening? Did his lips start on fire? Frigg*in hypocrite.


Rep. Roy Blunt, the No. 2 House Republican, said Triet told lawmakers that Vietnam "had lots of human rights, but the dissidents were somehow endangering the security of the country. We pressed hard for more information about exactly what that means."

Sounds like the Bush and the people on this message board that support him. It's no problem for Bush though - he can just rip another chunk out of the Constitution.

[peacethinker-2009]

We should keep asking them to improve human rights and release political prisoners. We should also admit our spraying of Agent Orange caused thousands of sad birth defects and other problems to those people, apologize for it, i.e. knowing it was a dangerous chemical compound and doing it anyway.

[hypnotoad72]

How about the ability to have a job and earn a living?

Offshoring has only hurt Americans. And America.

[rharrin1]

bush is worried about peoples rights in Vietnam but has no concern about rights in the U.S.A.

[cybergrace7]

There are dated memos, actual proof, that US manufacturers of Agent Orange, knew that this so-called pesticide was contaminated with dioxin and an actual human poison. Why should chemical company executives be able to make so much money off of killing Vietnamese? The memos bluntly state "the dioxin is being dumped on 'the enemy'." Didn't the concentration camps in WWII teach us that we have to treat our enemy with the basics of humanity-- the right to life? Companies who profit off of war are immoral, but companies who make super-profits off of gross violations of human rights should have to give back the super-profits they made. All is NOT fair in war.

[cybergrace7]

Human rights start at home. If Bush really cares about human rights, the U.S. government should stop shielding the 37 U.S. chemical companies survivors of Agent Orange poisoning have sued in a brave class action suit. Widespread, knowledgeable, racist agent orange poisoning of the Vietnamese people is the largest human right violation going on in Vietnam today. Hundreds of thousands of severely deformed children of vets are living a life sentence, without resources for basic rehabilitation, or schools or healthcare for their needs. The unfathomable amount of suffering of deformed children of vets is an unbearable human right. Bush, listen and help these innocent victims.

[wfbdem]

"Bush Pushes Vietnam Leader On Human Rights"


Wait...
The only way this makes headline makes sense is if bush is complaning that Vietnam has too many human rights. He probably is complaining that they are not torturing their suspects enough.