Most Couples OK Giving Embryos To Research

Infertility Patients With Unused Embryos Say They Would Give Them To Stem Cell Research

(AP)  A majority of couples with stored embryos from fertility treatments say they would be willing to donate unused embryos for stem cell research, says a doctor who surveyed patients.

“Large numbers of infertility patients ... support using embryos for research, and these are people who have invested emotionally and financially in these embryos,” Dr. Anne Drapkin Lyerly of Duke University said in a telephone interview Wednesday.

Use of stem cells derived from embryos is a moral issue that has troubled politicians, religious and medical leaders and couples with stored embryos. And it's an issue with strong advocates on both sides.

The problem is, obtaining stem cells kills the embryo.

Many see this as wrong and argue that they are protecting life. That's what led President Bush to veto a bill Wednesday that would have eased limits on using embryos in research.

Others point out that many stored embryos will be destroyed anyway, and letting them be used in research could lead to lifesaving treatments.

So Lyerly and Ruth R. Faden of Johns Hopkins University decided to ask the opinions of couples who had undergone fertility treatments and who had frozen embryos in storage at treatment centers.

“We knew that infertility patients were facing the morally difficult and very personal decision of what to do with remaining embryos, but we didn't have a lot of data,” Lyerly said. They thought that by hearing from these people they might be able to improve counseling and clinical care in the future.

In addition, she said, while there has been a very vigorous public debate on the issue, it has been dominated by lawmakers and religious authorities while the people “most personally and intimately involved have been underrepresented, if at all, so we wanted to bring their voices to the center.”

They chose nine fertility centers around the country and randomly selected more than 2,000 couples to be sent questionnaires.

Of 1,020 people who responded by saying they still had embryos in storage, 49 percent said they were likely to donate some or all of them for research. When asked specifically about stem cell research, the portion willing to donate embryos rose to 62 percent.

“It suggests that people are more willing to pursue research when they know more about it and how it might benefit their fellow citizens,” Lyerly said.

She added that research was preferred over donating the embryos to other infertile couples, “which brings into question the idea that the more you care about an embryo, the more you want it to become a child.”

“This has significant implications for potential policy change on stem cell research,” said Lyerly, an obstetrician-gynecologist and bioethicist. She noted that research donations could provide thousands of new stem cell lines for study.

The findings are published in this week's online edition of the journal Science and will appear in the journal's July 6 print edition.

Stem cells have attracted research attention because they can develop into any type of cell present in the body. Thus, scientists hope to find ways to use them to treat diseases ranging from autoimmune disorders to cancer, by generating healthy cells to replace damaged ones.

However, federal funding for embryonic stem cell research is limited to research on stem cell lines derived from embryos before August 2001, and may not be used for research in which an embryo is destroyed. Funding from private or state funding sources is growing, but is still insufficient, Lyerly said.

[christiansin]

George Bush can't even spell stem cell. He's seeing to it that countries like China get ahead of use technilogically. Next thing you know, someone in China will develope some revolutionary healthcare technology as a result of stem cell research that is being held up in the U.S. and they'll show up on our doorstep with a patent.

Meanwhile we'll be rubbing two sticks together wishing all of our money wasn't going over seas so that we can access technology that should have been developed and owned by someone in the U.S. What kind of a capitalist is Bush anyway?

They are Blastocysts by the way, not embryos. Twits! Embryos are blastocyssts that have implanted and could survive to viability. Embryos are not sacrificed in the production of stem cells. Seems to me that a few reporters should go back to school and take a biology class.

Apparently in the U.S. we like to pass laws while listening to sarcastic songs and taking them literally...

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
G0d gets quite irate...

-from Monty Python's The Meaning of Life

[randalds]

"A majority of couples with stored embryos from fertility treatments say they would be willing to donate unused embryos for stem cell research, says a doctor who surveyed patients."

Well I'll be! A survey that shows that the majority of married couples are godless heathens who are willing to destroy the little tiny humans buried deep inside of their embryos to help save mankind! This is going to come as a shock to god....er...I mean George Bush and his followers.

[opfor311]

Based on the ratio that the Rand Institute established for donated embryos to successful stem-cell lines (which was 1 stem-cell line for every 40 donated embryos), there would be about 5,000 lines if half of the estimated 400,000 frozen embryos were donated. This would barely be enough for serious studies to be done, much less have any left for actual treatments.

Also while there are currently treatments using adult stem-cells, embryonic stem-cells are at least 10 to 15 years from having any pratical use.

We need to be careful to not disparage what is bringing treatments to people today, because we are over-hyping something down the road. Some research does indicate that we may be able to reprogram adult stem-cells to behave like embronic stem-cells.

If we have limited dollars to spend on research, we should concentrate on what is the most likely to bring cures in the short run while providing ground work for the future.

[randalds]

Based on the ratio that the Rand Institute established for donated embryos to successful stem-cell lines (which was 1 stem-cell line for every 40 donated embryos), there would be about 5,000 lines if half of the estimated 400,000 frozen embryos were donated. This would barely be enough for serious studies to be done, much less have any left for actual treatments.

Posted by opfor311 at 12:09 AM : Jun 21, 2007


Well considering that there are only 11 lines available for government research under the bush plan (link below), one would think that having 5000 lines would be manna from heaven and certainly plenty for serious research. Also the idea that since practical treatments may be as far as 15 years down the road, so let's not go in that direction is assine. Research takes decades to complete sometime, so going strictly for a quick fix makes no sense at all. Open up the government funding and there'll be more then enough lines to go in both directions!


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/05/09/tech/main553079.shtml

[macktruck22]

www.felonymills.com has bazar news clip

[opfor311]

RandalDS,

What makes more sense to invest your money in, an investment that will return 20 percent in one year with 95 percent certainty, or an investment that will return 75 percent in fifteen years with 25 percent certainty?

What you are not considering is that research into amniotic and adult stem-cells will provide nearly as much background research into stem-cells as embryonic while still providing cures in the short run. We need to be careful not to put much of our resources into transmuting lead into gold, while we can pan gold from the stream.

[opfor311]

Oh, by the way, I forgot to mention that 88 percent of the frozen embryos currently in storage will be used for implantation in order to have children. (according to the 2003 Rand Institute study). If that figure holds up, the 5000 potential stem-cell lines dwindle to 600.

If that happens, we'll be seeing the researchers have to find other methods to obtain embryos. However, since the extraction process is painful and expensive (somewhere around $3,000 or more), very few women are willing to donate at their own expense.

[randalds]

We need to be careful not to put much of our resources into transmuting lead into gold, while we can pan gold from the stream.
Posted by opfor311 at 12:54 AM : Jun 21, 2007

And I'm saying it's stupidly shortsighted not to be doing both. Esp when as it is in this, turning lead into gold can be done. Open the government funding and there will be plenty of gold for those who want to pan for today and lead for those who want to turn it into gold for tomorrow. This is a case where we really can have it both ways, if the fundamentalists will just get the hell out of the way.

[feelfree1]

"Most Couples OK Giving Embryos To Research"

Great!!!

Hopefully they won't mind if I patent and own the rights to their genetic sequences, and make a few clones here and there...for research purposes, of course!

[tnt1954]

teleology or the study of the means to the
end is important. some people it doesn't
matter how you get your money, just as long
as you have it. to them the end justifies
the means. its how you get there to some though.
and not whether you win or lose the game but
how you play the game. did ya play fair
and square? did ya cheat your friend, sabotage
his efforts? did ya give a fair day's work
for what was offered, what the boss could afford?
was the boss really down and out with a 8 trillion dollars public debt, and you just kept
running up the bill, higher and higher and
higher and said, let the future pay the bills,
i've got my time, and i aim to have a blast
on the future. michael j. fox should go
back to the future where he belongs, way in
the future, when his problems and everyone
else's are finally solved. i think he'll
find out when he arrives, way, way in the
future, say about 2525 when man is still alive,
its still the same basic problems with the
same basic solutions. its like my survivalist
neighbor who is building a spaceship in his
underground garage. he's got a planet all
bought and paid for in the andromeda galaxy.
he's taking off pretty soon he says, with
his family, so he and his family can be safe.
i told him, be sure and drop us a line, when
ya get there, tell us how things are. i never
really worry about his mental health.

[cozzicon]

"George Bush can't even spell stem cell. He's seeing to it that countries like China get ahead of use technilogically. Next thing you know, someone in China will develope some revolutionary healthcare technology as a result of stem cell research that is being held up in the U.S. and they'll show up on our doorstep with a patent."


Correct.

And then we'll start a war over it to "protect American Interests".

When something like that happens just WATCH- we'll not uphold a patent like that.

[acauble1]

I wish that God, through some means, would command all of his religious followers to commit suicide...

... so that way, us intellectuals can finally have a planet to ourselves!

[uceslady]

God forgive us to trying to play you. There are lot of Abraham/Sarah's in our world today. Jehovah did not intend for sperm/ovum to be stirred up in a petrie dish or test tube to make a baby. Then if that is not enough, we will make a few extras to have on down the road or do whatever with....who knows maybe stem cell research when we got tired of paying someone to store them for us.

Sarah has caused a lot of trouble through the ages...we are paying the price today...because she jumped ahead of GOD as she wanted a child so bad. I know there are a lot of children alive today that would not have been here if not for INVITRO, but that is playing GOD. This is just one of the dangerous things humans are doing just because they want their way and will stop at nothing to get it. We are no better than Sodom and Gomorrah. Heaven help us when he has had enough of us and our evil, sinful ways.

[mcvet]

What you are not considering is that research into amniotic and adult stem-cells will provide nearly as much background research into stem-cells as embryonic while still providing cures in the short run. We need to be careful not to put much of our resources into transmuting lead into gold, while we can pan gold from the stream.
Posted by opfor311 at 12:54 AM : Jun 21, 2007

So ALL our scientist and greatest minds are just lying to us huh? Shouldn't we be trusting such decisions to people OTHER than Religious Nazi's? Sieg Heil and Amen

[mcvet]

When one looks at ALL and I do mean ALL the issues that divide us and those that create all the hatred today, ALL of those issues belong to and are created by the Religious Reich. Now how many of those Issues does the Religious Reich show ANY willingness to compromise on? Want to know what is wrong with America today? You need only look as far as the American Taliban!

[antoniof123]

I love it so many people trying to get their point across and thinking I will scream loud enough until my wheel gets the oil. The real problem with that though process is there comes a point when you stop trying to fix something that is broken and you replace the whole car.

You can't change people and sooner or later if the majority of people want this then it will happen. For the left things happen when it is the right time. For the right the more you try to force people the more they fight back.

If you don't believe in it then don't do it. So here is the real solution. Those who want to go fight in Iraq pay for it those who want stem cell researc pay for it. Thay way everyone gets their way.

Of course the benefit should only go to those that support it so what ever goods comes out of the war it should go to those who support it and what ever good comes out of stem cell research should go to those who support.

Pretty simple....

[sandy19731]

"She added that research was preferred over donating the embryos to other infertile couples, %u201Cwhich brings into question the idea that the more you care about an embryo, the more you want it to become a child.%u201D

I can't wait to read the research. This is very interesting. My guess is that it has to do with not wanting your offspring out there being raised by strangers and/or maybe them seeking you out some day.

Any other ideas? Any actual persons with this situation who cares to comment?

Academic curiosity....

[pwrslm]

This story is nothing more than a one sided, politicization of an issue by CBS.

The press is supposed to be impartial, giving the public the whole story, coverage for both the pro and the con on issues.

Instead, CBS casts Bush's veto of this bill in a bad light, and then back to back, side by side, issued this story, demonstrating a bias in the press that violates the public confidence in professional journalism.


and....Is there lie here? "Most Couples". There is absolutely no grounds for this to be stated as fact. The headline is lying.

[rafterman1]

pwrslm, that's because there is no sane reason for supporting the incineration of unused embryos over using them for research. Only the farthest right wing whacko can justify that.

[realpatriot1]

pwrslm,

So you say. It stands to resoon if the overwhelming majority of all Americans supports this that a majority of those actually owning the embryos also do. Deal with it.

The real point is that Bush the decider won't allow the couples whose bodies the embryos came from to make their own moral decision on what to do with them.

At the same time, he's doing nothing to "save" these embryos from being destroyed. There's no moral point to this policy whatsoever.

Maybe those couple who feel the need to make reproductive decisions for others should adopt the frozen embryos and use their bodies to try to bring them to term. While there at it, they should collect all the discarded sperm and menstruated eggs and use their bodies to bring them to term as well.

[rafterman1]

===At the same time, he's doing nothing to "save" these embryos from being destroyed. There's no moral point to this policy whatsoever.===

Correct. You might be able to justify the position somewhat if Bush wanted to save the embryos. But he hasn't done a thing except veto the bill. It's a veto for the sake of a veto.

[hungry1968]

"Instead, CBS casts Bush's veto of this bill in a bad light, and then back to back, side by side, issued this story, demonstrating a bias in the press that violates the public confidence in professional journalism."
Posted by pwrslm at 08:11 AM : Jun 21, 2007

That's because IT IS BAD. The same people that think we should throw these embryo's in the garbage, rather than using them to cure some horrible diseases are all hypocrites anyway.
These are the same people that oppose abortion, but are for the death penalty.
They are against Jack Kevorkian, even if the people who are seeking his help are sane and competent, and just want to die pain free and with dignity from their horrible diseases.
By the way, most of the people that were seeking Kevorkian's help could possibly be cured by research performed on embryonic stem cells. Cerebral Palsy patients, MS, cancer, etc, etc.

[pwrslm]

Posted by realpatriot1

You have a very shallow arguement. When you want to ignore 99% of the truth, the 1% left that you try to cleave to is meaningless.

Either argue the whole truth, or ****.

Any child can do what you are trying to do. Bush has stated his possition, and it is one that is well founded in historical ethics. These people want to experiment on our society, to remove the value of life for the purpose of experimenting by destroying life itself. Similar things happened in Germany during WWII, and frankly, its truely immoral. Recent research has demonstrated that there are alternative possibilities, which you totally ignore. Thats willful ignorance, and, just like CBS in thier choice of how to lay these two issue out, has no place in society being represented as truthful nor responsible.

It doesnt matter what the "couples" think, what matters is that we recognize what both sides of the debate truely are, instead of this charade that you are defending.

[pwrslm]

So, exactly how did the medical field make you grow a new heart Mr Doe?

"well, they killed 10 thousand embryo's until they got the right mix of cells to do it."

so, that heart you now have came from the embryo of a human being?

"absolutely"






An embryo is alive, and contains every bit of DNA that it takes to be you, or me...lets not make "Frankenstien" into a reality.

[realpatriot1]

uceslady,

You seem to be saying that couples who can't conceive on their own without available medical assistance should just not have children because that would be playing God.

Would it be better if these children wern't born then? Did God not play a role in the discovery of the invitro process and in the ultimate success of that process? Is it playing God to offer other forms of medical assistance such as heart bypass surgery to save lives?

It's not about playing God, it's about playing human with God's assistance.

[pwrslm]

That's because IT IS BAD. The same people that think we should throw these embryo's in the garbage, rather than using them to cure some horrible diseases are all hypocrites anyway.
Posted by hungry1968

Hogwash. You are presenting absolute lies. The only people who argue that all of the embryo's are killed and thrown in the garbage are the ones that want to kill them for stem cells.

The reality of it is that its exerimentation with living human embryos', and it takes far more than would be currently destroyed to accomplish what these frankenstien doctors think they can accomplish.

The fact is, recent developments have shown that its just as likely that they can get these same stem cells without killing any embryo's.

Ignoring the whole truth, and convicting Bush on a lie, is an insult to America. Bush did what was right. You folks actually have to omit facts to prove he is wrong, making everything that you are posting nothing more than proof that this is not about the truth, but the flex of egotistical minds in the middle of a Bush Bashing party.

[hungry1968]

"It doesnt matter what the "couples" think, what matters is that we recognize what both sides of the debate truely are, instead of this charade that you are defending."
Posted by pwrslm at 09:20 AM : Jun 21, 2007

That's Bush's position in a nutshell. It doesn't matter what the people think. Or Congress. Or the Senate. Or the scientists. Or the doctors.

I find it terrifying that you compare what Germany did in the holocaust, to scientists and doctors that are trying to cure some of the most horrible diseases ever known. It's typical of a Bush backer though to try and use fear to make their point. "The scientists and doctors are like Nazi's!!"

[pwrslm]

Embryonic Stem Cells Can Be Created Without Eggs

Adapted from the Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research

Now, scientists at Whitehead Institute have demonstrated that embryonic stem cells can be created without eggs. By genetically manipulating mature skin cells taken from a mouse, the scientists have transformed these cells back into a pluripotent state, one that appears identical to an embryonic stem cell in every way. No eggs were used, and no embryos destroyed.

http://www.stemcellresearchfoundation.org/WhatsNew/June_2007.html#1






Oh ya, and another lie;

That's Bush's position in a nutshell
Posted by hungry1968

[Geneius]

George Bush is extremely ignorant and he forces his opinions, born of ignorance, on us.

To destroy embryos instead of using them for something to help humanity is ignorance.

[pwrslm]

I find it terrifying that you compare what Germany did in the holocaust, to scientists and doctors that are trying to cure some of the most horrible diseases ever known. It's typical of a Bush backer though to try and use fear to make their point. "The scientists and doctors are like Nazi's!!"
Posted by hungry1968 at 09:33 AM : Jun 21, 2007


I find it offensive that you defend the disregard for human life, just like the Nazi's did.

But then again, you ignore half the truth, and try to make the other half fit into some twisted sense of morality that is devoid of the respect for the very life you promote killing.



pwrslm, that's because there is no sane reason for supporting the incineration of unused embryos over using them for research. Only the farthest right wing whacko can justify that.

Posted by Rafterman1 at 08:22 AM : Jun 21, 2007


The production of such an excessive number of embryo's (by the same doctors who would profit from it) is the real immorality here. It only takes a few to solve a couples infertillity issue. The fertilized embryo "is" human, and "is" alive. They are not a toy, and just like I documented, they dont even need them.

[hungry1968]

Hogwash. You are presenting absolute lies. The only people who argue that all of the embryo's are killed and thrown in the garbage are the ones that want to kill them for stem cells.
The reality of it is that its exerimentation with living human embryos', and it takes far more than would be currently destroyed to accomplish what these frankenstien doctors think they can accomplish.
Posted by pwrslm at 09:31 AM : Jun 21, 2007

Isn't it also funny that whenever anyone disagrees with you on anything it's all "lies"? Don't you find it just a little bit odd that Bush is ignoring every single piece of scientific evidence and proof in favor of his faith? The Bible has as much truth as Aesop's fables. Who's following the truth and who's following the stories?

And yes there are alternatives to embryonic stem cells. But the scientists all say that the actual embryonic stem cells offer more promising research potential than umbilical cords, embryonic fluid, or skin cells. Why didn't you state that in your argument? An omission of facts is as bad as a lie.

There he is with the fear angle again. This time the scientists aren't nazi's - now they're frankenstein doctors. What will they turn into next?

[realpatriot1]

pwrslm,

The fallacy in your argument is that it only takes a few eggs to be "harvested" for the process to be successful and that somehow these "Frankenstein" doctors are making money off the others.

They remove several eggs for "hatching" because they don't all develop to the point of being useful for continuing the process but sometimes they get more than can be used to place back in the uterus and be brought to term.

I don't know how you think that doctors can make money off of these. They have to pay for the cryopreservation but the couples control the embryos.

The only way to save these frozen embryos is to find enough uteruses to house them and bring them to term. So get to recruiting.

[mbcsmith]

Gee, do you think this "Dr" has self interest here? I'm sure this was a scientific survey of ALL his patients in his little corner of the world. How much federal money does this "Dr" stand to gain? Typical CBS propaganda promoting their views.

[pwrslm]

Isn't it also funny that whenever anyone disagrees with you on anything it's all "lies"?

Don't you find it just a little bit odd that Bush is ignoring every single piece of scientific evidence and proof in favor of his faith? Posted by hungry1968

An omission is a lie. When you omit information that contradicts what you want to represent, having full knowledge of that information omitted, then you have committed a blatant lie. SO yes, if you purposely omit facts that demonstrate that embryonic stem cells may not be needed, then you have lied.

And I note, that every time you pro death advocates who promote social experimentation with out regard to that societies morality, and you further set forth to insult the religions which we credit for bringing so much morality to our society, then you are not working for the benefit of society, as much as you are for the destruction of the morality which it represents.

The bottom line is this, if there is no value in human life, then we, as human beings, are making the statement that humanity itself is useless.

In the face of factual proof that embryonic stem cells may not even be needed for this research, in a scientific endeavor to cure many of mankinds worse medical problems, the veto that Bush executed on this issue was totally correct.

[pwrslm]

Posted by realpatriot1

There you go, pushing ignorance with omissions again.

I feel sorry for people like you who cant pay enough attention to discussions so they have to omit what others have said to make invalid points.

[abbe7]

Gee, do you think this "Dr" has self interest here? I'm sure this was a scientific survey of ALL his patients in his little corner of the world. How much federal money does this "Dr" stand to gain? Typical CBS propaganda promoting their views.
Posted by mbcsmith at 10:16 AM : Jun 21, 2007

Talking about self interest ...

Bush wants only to stop the "federally-funded" research, whose results would be public domain and would not allow his corporate friends to make the money they would get from our wallets.

[infidel_us]

This is a very misleading article! Of course, people who have no regard for fertilizing and destroying tiny humans would have no problem donating the "surplus" to medical research.

If there was EVER a case for an example of BIASED reporting, this is it!

Bush is wrong about a LOT of things, but he's right in vetoing this.

[pwrslm]

Bush wants only to stop the "federally-funded" research, whose results would be public domain and would not allow his corporate friends to make the money they would get from our wallets.
Posted by abbe7

Thats a petty self serving statement, which ignores most of the real facts in the issue.

ITs people like you that end up confusing the real issue, making witless comments in a political context to cover up for your shallow thoughts.

[pwrslm]

These "polls" they conduct dont really expose the feelings of the polled as much as you would think. To assume that the people whom are polled are fully informed, and answer in the context that the polsters format the results, is an illusion.

If this "poll" reported on is based on misrepresentation and material deceptions, you will never know, because they dont give you the whole truth that would demonstrate the candor in which the questions were asked.

[abbe7]

"ITs people like you that end up confusing the real issue, making witless comments in a political context to cover up for your shallow thoughts.
Posted by pwrslm at 10:59 AM : Jun 21, 2007"

Unlike Queen Bush, I don't have any scandal to "cover up". This reminds me the Schiavo story ... all republicans trying to save Terri Schiavo when she was a vegetable but a little bit before, in another state, passing a bill to allow hospitals to unplug patients when the family couldn't pay anymore.
With Bush & co, issues like ethics, "protecting America", etc ... stop where money starts.

[abbe7]

"These "polls" they conduct dont really expose the feelings of the polled as much as you would think. To assume that the people whom are polled are fully informed, and answer in the context that the polsters format the results, is an illusion."

Guess what, they didn't even have to swear on the bible that they expressed their true feelings.

Following your line of thought, the 30- percent of people still thinking Bush is doing a good job are not fully informed either.

[realpatriot1]

pwrslm,

You keep saying that I'm making invalid points and that i'm ignoring others yet you never give examples of what you mean.

Tell me what you think is invalid and what you think I'm ignoring and I'll respond.

You're the one whose trying to avoid issues.

[pwrslm]

Guess what, they didn't even have to swear on the bible that they expressed their true feelings.

Following your line of thought, the 30- percent of people still thinking Bush is doing a good job are not fully informed either.
Posted by abbe7


Your right about the people expressing thier true feelings. The problem is, that in what context they describe thier true feeling is not verifiable by this story, so those feelings are irrelevant to the truth because they are 100% hidden.

Is this some kind of heroic attempt for you to demonstrate that you dont like Bush? Bush bashing is the only defense you have presented that has any relevance to the truth your trying to represent. I can compare your arguement to a bucket that your pouring water into, except the bottom of the bucket has a huge, huge hole in it.

So it doesnt matter how far from reality that you strike, your omissions demonstrate that the only thing your doing here is spreading gossip, rumor, and lies.

[pwrslm]

You seem to be saying that couples who can't conceive on their own without available medical assistance should just not have children because that would be playing God.

Would it be better if these children wern't born then? Did God not play a role in the discovery of the invitro process and in the ultimate success of that process? Is it playing God to offer other forms of medical assistance such as heart bypass surgery to save lives?

It's not about playing God, it's about playing human with God's assistance.
Posted by realpatriot1

There is your irrelevance RP.

Its a choice men have to make. God said thou shall not kill. He didnt make exceptions, life is life, no matter how young it is. An embryo is human, and it is alive.

Dont play twist Gods morality to fit the purpose, the truth is, research has proven that they can aquire the same stem cells without using embryo's.

If you want to cleave to a Gods assistance theme, then do so in context with Gods Commandments, thou shall not kill....we dont need to, that is all the help we need from God.

[realpatriot1]

The people being polled are the people whose bodies were used to create the embryos, the embryos are part of them.

How should they become more informed on the issue?

[pwrslm]

The people being polled are the people whose bodies were used to create the embryos, the embryos are part of them.

How should they become more informed on the issue?
Posted by realpatriot1

That doesnt justify hiding behind anonymity, making unverifiable claims about unverifiable polls.

[realpatriot1]

pwrslm,

What are you talking about?

If you want to verify the claims you can call the Doctor at Duke Med and ask her about the methodology.

Was a sample of 2,000 not large enough for you, because all those Rasmussen polls you all like to trumpet only sample about 500-800 respondents.

[realpatriot1]

pwrslm,

God said thou shalt not kill and there are no exceptions. But people who think like you make exceptions all the time(war,death penalty,hunting,etc.).

To follow your reasoning in this instance, we would have to leave these embryos in their frozen state for eternity.

Sort of like leaving Terri Schiavo's soul in limbo rather than setting it free to be with god.

[sy2502]

An embryo is human, and it is alive.
Posted by pwrslm at 11:40 AM : Jun 21, 2007

These are embryos that are a few days old. They are a lose collection of cells some of which will become a fetus, some will become the placenta. Is the placenta a human being? Don't be ignorant.

[pwrslm]

pwrslm,

God said thou shalt not kill and there are no exceptions.

Posted by some realputz1

No I did not. You need to pay more attention, and try to stay within the boundries of reality, instead of making this stuff up as you go along. Not only do you fail to account for all of the facts about killing embryo's for stem cell research, which is not even needed, but you are totally ignorant of what this commandment means.