"Monumental" Climate Change?

Global Warming May Threaten Civilization's Future; Could It Soon Wipe Out Landmarks Of The Past?

(CBS)  The stress that climate change can have on people is beginning to be felt. But a new international study has warned that there may be other victims as well, CBS News correspondent Mark Phillips reports.

From the rising waters of Venice to the ancient temples of Greece to the archeological grandeur of Rome, and to the more modern wonders, global warming may hasten the destruction of some of the world's most treasured buildings and heritage sites.

"The building is that canary in the mine that we can see and appreciate in terms of the change," said study author May Cassar of University College, London.

And the canary is beginning to look decidedly ill. The study concluded that higher temperatures and humidity will speed up the corrosion of the Eiffel Tower's ironwork, for example. And the warm, moist salty air will attack the fine stonework on buildings from the Parthenon to the Tower of London to Westminster Abbey.

"So what we will get within a hundred years is the fine detailing on buildings being lost," Cassar said.

The damage, the report's authors say, may in fact go much deeper and affect the very structure of the buildings.

"It will produce on the masonry and within the building's material fracture and deterioration of the material itself," Sabbioni said.

The point of the new study is that climate change may not only threaten our future, it may also threaten some of the most inspiring and important touchstones of our past. We may have to choose which of these monuments we try to preserve and which we allow to crumble and be lost forever.

"The notion that we can save everything for all time is, I think, one that we have to seriously think about because it's unrealistic — we cannot," Cassar said.

The message: See them now, because within 50 to 100 years, treasures that have lasted for centuries may look very different, or not be there at all.

[montraville]

This is terribly tragic, but it dwarfs the human cost, which is already being felt. I think the developed world will probably find money to save their precious buildings, but we have to remember that it was human genius that built these monuments, and we should worry most about the displacement of human populations (and the desctruction of the environments that sustain us all!)

There are a lot of people working on reversing the climate change process by C02 sequestration and limiting CO2 pollution into the future. A lot of the former deniers have now changed their jobs. Now they say its inevitable and irreversible. They were wrong on the science back then, its safe to assume their wrong on their forecasting into the future now.

I have faith we can beat this, if we put our effort into it. There's sacrifice involved, but millions are already on board. My favorite site, Treehugger.com, has a dozen great ideas posted daily, from lifestyle adjustment to new tech to plain consciousness raising. Check it out. Republicans welcome too!

[weareone2]

I found this on the Nasa web site, for Mars.
I couldn't find a reference to Jupiter warming.
Could you provide us with a link?

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/research/2007/marswarming.html

05.14.07

For the past 30 years, NASA scientists have been using high-tech satellite equipment to study features on the face of Mars. It appears a slight change in the planet%u2019s surface luster has caused its temperature to rise.

To determine the extent of surface changes on Mars, scientists took images from the Viking (launched 1975) and Mars Global Surveyor (1996) satellite missions and mapped them into a climate model developed at NASA Ames Research Center. They discovered that a wind-whipped, dusty surface has a measurable effect on the amount of sunlight that is reflected by the planet. The results of this research show that an increase in darkened surface areas may account for a one degree Fahrenheit rise in the surface air temperature of the planet.
=================================
It has been noted that one of the reason's the earth is warming faster than older computer models predicted, is that as ice melts, the ground underneath, which is darker, is exposed, and thus does not reflect as much solar radiation back into space as the ice did.

[weareone2]

Today is the summer solstice. If the greenhouse effect does not exist, then I guess we could expect the temperature to start getting cooler, since the amount of sunlight will be getting less. Also, we would expect the temperature to start getting warmer after the winter solstive, Dec. 20 or 21. Of course, that doesn't happen.

http://cires.colorado.edu/events/lectures/ruddiman/
William Ruddiman proposes that we would be in an ice age by now if it hadn't been for global warming caused by human activity, going back thousands of years ago.

processor2 What does this have to do with "America's fault"? This is a problem accidently caused by humans. If we continue, it won't be accidental any more, it will be because of irresponsible people who are too lazy and uncaring to change their ways; that would be unpatriotic.

[infidel_us]

"Read the sunspots
The mud at the bottom of B.C. fjords reveals that solar output drives climate change - and that we should prepare now for dangerous global cooling"

DANGEROUS GLOBAL COOLING!?!?!?!? Ohhhh noooooooo!!!!!!! LOL

[bobebenson]

"And the warm, moist salty air will attack the fine stonework on buildings from the Parthenon to the Tower of London to Westminster Abbey. "

Hey wait a minute. If you boil salt water until all the water is gone, THE SALT STAYS! I learned this in grade school! "Moist salty air??".....Hmmmmmm

[octavianfdlr]

Actually, weareone2, the information on other planets comes from NASA, which has attempted to explain it away (at least on Mars) by attributing the melting polar caps to increased levels of dust in the atmosphere. The higher than usual dust, of course, is caused by increased winds, driven by (oh-oh) global warming on Mars.

Indeed, it would seem that increased solar output could explain all three phenomena; observations that temperatures are not rising on Venus, Mercury, Saturn, Pluto, etc. would suggest that solar output is not increasing. Have we heard any such observations? Or just a lack of information? (Pluto has been reported to be warming, too -- even as it moves further from the sun.)

Regardless of the cause for heating on Mars, Jupiter, etc., the fact that global warming is also happening on these other planets, which are not experiencing anthropogenic increases in greenhouse gases, disproves the assertion of the Global Warming propagandists that only anthropogenic greenhouse gases can explain global warming.

We are then left with the somewhat weaker argument that anthropogenic greenhouse gases *must* be increasing temperatures on Earth. This argument recieved little attention a few decades ago when global temperatures were falling, and deserves no more attention now.

[processor2]

I heard this similar *** in the 1970's, when all the
Liberal NeoCommies were WHINING about "GLOBAL COOLING".

I still have National Geographic's from the 1970's that has articles about "global cooling"

The same rhetoric existed then as it does today,
and it goes like this:

"Global Cooling is going to destroy the earth,
and it's America's fault".

Not much has changed in the last 30 years, EXCEPT, it's now "global warming" instead of "global cooling", but it's still the USA's fault according to these liberal idiots!!!

STOP GLOBAL WHINING,
STOP GLOBAL WHINING,

HEY,HEY,HO,HO, GLOBAL WHINING HAS GOT TO GO.
HEY,HEY,HO,HO, GLOBAL WHINING HAS GOT TO GO.

If you NeoCommies think I'm being ridiculous
with the above chants,
CONGRATULATIONS, you get my point

...

[processor2]

I heard this similar *** in the 1970's, when all the
Liberal NeoCommies were WHINING about "GLOBAL COOLING".

I still have National Geographic's from the 1970's that has articles about "global cooling"

The same rhetoric existed then as it does today,
and it goes like this:

"Global Cooling is going to destroy the earth,
and it's America's fault".

Not much has changed in the last 30 years, EXCEPT, it's now "global warming" instead of "global cooling", but it's still the USA's fault according to these liberal idiots!!!

STOP GLOBAL WHINING,
STOP GLOBAL WHINING,

HEY,HEY,HO,HO, GLOBAL WHINING HAS GOT TO GO.
HEY,HEY,HO,HO, GLOBAL WHINING HAS GOT TO GO.

If you NeoCommies think I'm being ridiculous
with the above chants,
CONGRATULATIONS, you get my point

...

[weareone2]

It is a fact of physics that some gases have a greenhouse effect. See the post by ubrew12 for a good explanation of what that means. It is a fact of physics that humans are causing an increase in these gases. Whatever natural processes there are that are affecting the earth's temperature, this man-made increase in greenhouse gases must cause the earth to be warmer than it would be w/o the extra gases, just like the inside of a car sitting in the sun with the windows up will be hotter than the outside temperature, whatever it is. Yes, when the temperature outside the car is hotter, it will be hotter inside the car, but that doesn't mean the windshield glass does not have a greenhouse effect.

octavianfdlr says that Mars and Jupiter have warmed. The implication seems to be that this is caused by the Sun. If this is the case, what about the other planets? After all, Mercury and Venus are closer to the sun. From my experience, this "fact" might be something that was made up by people like Mobil/Exxon.

Incidentally, Venus is so hot because of a runaway greenhouse effect, caused by water vapor, another greenhouse gas. Venus is closer to the sun than the Earth, which caused an increased evaporation of water, and water vapor is a greenhouse gas. So that caused warming, which caused more evaporation, etc.

[tdavid6]

Anyone who doubts that Global Climate Change is real only needs to open their eyes and look around. It may be too late anyway. The glaciers and icecaps are melting. The sea will rise. The ocean will warm up and the ocean currents will change. The whole earth will warm up, faster and faster. Mellowdaddy has it right. Enjoy life now, while you can.