"Monumental" Climate Change?

Global Warming May Threaten Civilization's Future; Could It Soon Wipe Out Landmarks Of The Past?

(CBS)  The stress that climate change can have on people is beginning to be felt. But a new international study has warned that there may be other victims as well, CBS News correspondent Mark Phillips reports.

From the rising waters of Venice to the ancient temples of Greece to the archeological grandeur of Rome, and to the more modern wonders, global warming may hasten the destruction of some of the world's most treasured buildings and heritage sites.

"The building is that canary in the mine that we can see and appreciate in terms of the change," said study author May Cassar of University College, London.

And the canary is beginning to look decidedly ill. The study concluded that higher temperatures and humidity will speed up the corrosion of the Eiffel Tower's ironwork, for example. And the warm, moist salty air will attack the fine stonework on buildings from the Parthenon to the Tower of London to Westminster Abbey.

"So what we will get within a hundred years is the fine detailing on buildings being lost," Cassar said.

The damage, the report's authors say, may in fact go much deeper and affect the very structure of the buildings.

"It will produce on the masonry and within the building's material fracture and deterioration of the material itself," Sabbioni said.

The point of the new study is that climate change may not only threaten our future, it may also threaten some of the most inspiring and important touchstones of our past. We may have to choose which of these monuments we try to preserve and which we allow to crumble and be lost forever.

"The notion that we can save everything for all time is, I think, one that we have to seriously think about because it's unrealistic — we cannot," Cassar said.

The message: See them now, because within 50 to 100 years, treasures that have lasted for centuries may look very different, or not be there at all.

[montraville]

This is terribly tragic, but it dwarfs the human cost, which is already being felt. I think the developed world will probably find money to save their precious buildings, but we have to remember that it was human genius that built these monuments, and we should worry most about the displacement of human populations (and the desctruction of the environments that sustain us all!)

There are a lot of people working on reversing the climate change process by C02 sequestration and limiting CO2 pollution into the future. A lot of the former deniers have now changed their jobs. Now they say its inevitable and irreversible. They were wrong on the science back then, its safe to assume their wrong on their forecasting into the future now.

I have faith we can beat this, if we put our effort into it. There's sacrifice involved, but millions are already on board. My favorite site, Treehugger.com, has a dozen great ideas posted daily, from lifestyle adjustment to new tech to plain consciousness raising. Check it out. Republicans welcome too!

[weareone2]

I found this on the Nasa web site, for Mars.
I couldn't find a reference to Jupiter warming.
Could you provide us with a link?

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/research/2007/marswarming.html

05.14.07

For the past 30 years, NASA scientists have been using high-tech satellite equipment to study features on the face of Mars. It appears a slight change in the planet%u2019s surface luster has caused its temperature to rise.

To determine the extent of surface changes on Mars, scientists took images from the Viking (launched 1975) and Mars Global Surveyor (1996) satellite missions and mapped them into a climate model developed at NASA Ames Research Center. They discovered that a wind-whipped, dusty surface has a measurable effect on the amount of sunlight that is reflected by the planet. The results of this research show that an increase in darkened surface areas may account for a one degree Fahrenheit rise in the surface air temperature of the planet.
=================================
It has been noted that one of the reason's the earth is warming faster than older computer models predicted, is that as ice melts, the ground underneath, which is darker, is exposed, and thus does not reflect as much solar radiation back into space as the ice did.

[weareone2]

Today is the summer solstice. If the greenhouse effect does not exist, then I guess we could expect the temperature to start getting cooler, since the amount of sunlight will be getting less. Also, we would expect the temperature to start getting warmer after the winter solstive, Dec. 20 or 21. Of course, that doesn't happen.

http://cires.colorado.edu/events/lectures/ruddiman/
William Ruddiman proposes that we would be in an ice age by now if it hadn't been for global warming caused by human activity, going back thousands of years ago.

processor2 What does this have to do with "America's fault"? This is a problem accidently caused by humans. If we continue, it won't be accidental any more, it will be because of irresponsible people who are too lazy and uncaring to change their ways; that would be unpatriotic.

[infidel_us]

"Read the sunspots
The mud at the bottom of B.C. fjords reveals that solar output drives climate change - and that we should prepare now for dangerous global cooling"

DANGEROUS GLOBAL COOLING!?!?!?!? Ohhhh noooooooo!!!!!!! LOL

[bobebenson]

"And the warm, moist salty air will attack the fine stonework on buildings from the Parthenon to the Tower of London to Westminster Abbey. "

Hey wait a minute. If you boil salt water until all the water is gone, THE SALT STAYS! I learned this in grade school! "Moist salty air??".....Hmmmmmm

[octavianfdlr]

Actually, weareone2, the information on other planets comes from NASA, which has attempted to explain it away (at least on Mars) by attributing the melting polar caps to increased levels of dust in the atmosphere. The higher than usual dust, of course, is caused by increased winds, driven by (oh-oh) global warming on Mars.

Indeed, it would seem that increased solar output could explain all three phenomena; observations that temperatures are not rising on Venus, Mercury, Saturn, Pluto, etc. would suggest that solar output is not increasing. Have we heard any such observations? Or just a lack of information? (Pluto has been reported to be warming, too -- even as it moves further from the sun.)

Regardless of the cause for heating on Mars, Jupiter, etc., the fact that global warming is also happening on these other planets, which are not experiencing anthropogenic increases in greenhouse gases, disproves the assertion of the Global Warming propagandists that only anthropogenic greenhouse gases can explain global warming.

We are then left with the somewhat weaker argument that anthropogenic greenhouse gases *must* be increasing temperatures on Earth. This argument recieved little attention a few decades ago when global temperatures were falling, and deserves no more attention now.

[processor2]

I heard this similar *** in the 1970's, when all the
Liberal NeoCommies were WHINING about "GLOBAL COOLING".

I still have National Geographic's from the 1970's that has articles about "global cooling"

The same rhetoric existed then as it does today,
and it goes like this:

"Global Cooling is going to destroy the earth,
and it's America's fault".

Not much has changed in the last 30 years, EXCEPT, it's now "global warming" instead of "global cooling", but it's still the USA's fault according to these liberal idiots!!!

STOP GLOBAL WHINING,
STOP GLOBAL WHINING,

HEY,HEY,HO,HO, GLOBAL WHINING HAS GOT TO GO.
HEY,HEY,HO,HO, GLOBAL WHINING HAS GOT TO GO.

If you NeoCommies think I'm being ridiculous
with the above chants,
CONGRATULATIONS, you get my point

...

[processor2]

I heard this similar *** in the 1970's, when all the
Liberal NeoCommies were WHINING about "GLOBAL COOLING".

I still have National Geographic's from the 1970's that has articles about "global cooling"

The same rhetoric existed then as it does today,
and it goes like this:

"Global Cooling is going to destroy the earth,
and it's America's fault".

Not much has changed in the last 30 years, EXCEPT, it's now "global warming" instead of "global cooling", but it's still the USA's fault according to these liberal idiots!!!

STOP GLOBAL WHINING,
STOP GLOBAL WHINING,

HEY,HEY,HO,HO, GLOBAL WHINING HAS GOT TO GO.
HEY,HEY,HO,HO, GLOBAL WHINING HAS GOT TO GO.

If you NeoCommies think I'm being ridiculous
with the above chants,
CONGRATULATIONS, you get my point

...

[weareone2]

It is a fact of physics that some gases have a greenhouse effect. See the post by ubrew12 for a good explanation of what that means. It is a fact of physics that humans are causing an increase in these gases. Whatever natural processes there are that are affecting the earth's temperature, this man-made increase in greenhouse gases must cause the earth to be warmer than it would be w/o the extra gases, just like the inside of a car sitting in the sun with the windows up will be hotter than the outside temperature, whatever it is. Yes, when the temperature outside the car is hotter, it will be hotter inside the car, but that doesn't mean the windshield glass does not have a greenhouse effect.

octavianfdlr says that Mars and Jupiter have warmed. The implication seems to be that this is caused by the Sun. If this is the case, what about the other planets? After all, Mercury and Venus are closer to the sun. From my experience, this "fact" might be something that was made up by people like Mobil/Exxon.

Incidentally, Venus is so hot because of a runaway greenhouse effect, caused by water vapor, another greenhouse gas. Venus is closer to the sun than the Earth, which caused an increased evaporation of water, and water vapor is a greenhouse gas. So that caused warming, which caused more evaporation, etc.

[tdavid6]

Anyone who doubts that Global Climate Change is real only needs to open their eyes and look around. It may be too late anyway. The glaciers and icecaps are melting. The sea will rise. The ocean will warm up and the ocean currents will change. The whole earth will warm up, faster and faster. Mellowdaddy has it right. Enjoy life now, while you can.

[lavampire]

Even the mighiest stars in our universe, even in our own milky way that is 100,000 light years across and about 2,000 lightyears in width, have an end, a supernova for some. Nothing last forever, not even the greatest love. In time, even the greatest ideas of Galileo, Newton, Einstein, and Jefferson will disappear like tears in the rain. Regardless of what is causing the global climate change, we must enjoy the present and our past; we must enjoy our family, our friends, our co-workers, our neighbors, our pets, our Walmarts and HomeDepots, our radio stations, our rock stars and movie stars and athletes, because in the end, nothing, nothing my friends, lasts forever. We too will come to our end, regardless of the Growth Hormone injections, Botox treatmenst, plastic surgeries and hormonal replacement therapies. We too will have our end.

[octavianfdlr]

"Something has to be causing the warming trend, the people that say it is a hoax and scam, must have the answer, share it with the rest of us."
Posted by j810nts21 at 11:22 AM : Jun 20, 2007

Something must, indeed, be causing the warming trend. Something must, indeed, have caused the warming trend at the end of the Younger Dryas, a warming that was just as abrupt, but nearly ten times as big, as the one at the 19C-20C boundary. No one, including the "Global Warming" propagandists, knows what caused the warming trend at the end of the Younger Dryas, but we all know it had nothing to do with anthropogenic greenhouse gases.

Perhaps the same thing is causing this one? What makes the "Global Warming" propagandists so certain that the current warming must be caused by man? The Midieval Optimum certainly wasn't! (Or there would have been no Little Ice Age)

Why should we believe the computer models of the "Global Warming" propagandists, when these models can't explain the Younger Dryas, the Elder Dryas, the Oldest Dryas, of the Midieval Optimum? Because they used a computer? That's how they do the special effects in (fictonal) movies!

If you, j810nts21, feel it is incumbant upon those who don't believe the "Global Warming" propagandists to disprove propagandists' claims by explaining all climate changes, please disprove my statement that anthropogenic global warming was not responsible for the end of the Younger Dryas. Include utility records from 11000 BC to 9000 BC.

[sy2502]

Regardless of the whole global warming discussion, when the article says that climate changes will damage ancient monuments, it is obviously forgetting that they have stood for thousands of years, surviving earthquakes, fires, weather. Saying that now, out of the blue, they are going to be irreparably damaged is quite ridiculous.

[octavianfdlr]

Once again, folks:

"Global Warming" is a public relations effort to persuade us to give away our rights to governments.

Earth, Mars, and Jupiter have warmed noticably over the past few decades. Human activity had nothing to do with the warming on Mars and Jupiter, so the assertion that only human activity can explain what is happening on Earth is false.

Those who object to the flawed logic of the "Global Warming" propagandists are not hiding their heads in the sand. Those who believe we must give up our rights to stop this natural warming are hiding their heads in the sand.

Denying the anthropogenic aspect of global warming is not the same thing as denying climate change. It's been happening for more than a million years, without any anthropogenic input. Earth's biosphere will continue to warm and cool, regardless of governmental regulation of greenhouse gases.

[mellowdaddy]

PLEASE people..the earth has been going through warming and cooling cycles long before we were here. It will continue to do so, not matter the impact or lack of impact by people, cows, gases, cars, trucks factories etc. We are just a mere speck in the sum of time. Live life, be kind, enjoy the ocean, heavens, flowers, trees and all that we have. Don't worry aboout something that you have no control over. Stop expecting others to live the way YOU think they should.

[ubrew12]

"Something has to be causing the warming trend, the people that say it is a hoax and scam, must have the answer, share it with the rest of us."
Posted by j810nts21 at 11:22 AM : Jun 20, 2007

Earth absorbs visible radiation from the Sun, and dumps infrared radiation to Space. The balance between heat in and heat out is what determines our ocean/atmosphere temperature. Greenhouse gases, like CO2, absorb infrared radiation but not visible radiation. CO2 concentrations have gone up 50% in the last 150 years, hence less infrared radiation leaves Earth while the same visible radiation is absorbed. So, the Earth heats up, temperature rises, glaciers melt, etc.

[j810nts21]

If Global Warming is a hoax and a scam, then explain this to me. When the Earth started it was a firey ball of rock. Since then the Earth should be cooling and it has. Now, the Earth has stopped Cooling and getting warmer. Why is this happening? It goes against the Laws of Nature. Something has to be causing the warming trend, the people that say it is a hoax and scam, must have the answer, share it with the rest of us.

[infidel_us]

newster1,

You missed the point. We all agree that the overall average temp has risen something like 1 degree C over the last 50 or so years.

The isuue at hand is whether or not it is man made. True scientific data does not support the "man made" ALGore model. Sorry, but those dots just won't connect.

[dontb_stupid]

The online piece here does not do justice to the hysteria attempt that aired last night. It was broadcast in a segment titled "Saving our World."

At least a full minute of video footage containing hurricanes & fires. Mark Phillips (that icon of intellectual honesty), narrating over the pictures about how we have all seen the devastation global warming can bring.

Then, without referring to ANY source that we can check for ourselves he states that "leading scientists" (who are these people?) now estimate that the melting polar ice caps will raise the ocean levels by more than 16(?) feet. Oh, and we need to cut green house gases within the next 10 years to start reversing the trend.

Philips does not tell us how much cutting needs to be done. Nor does he give any evidence that this cutting will have any effect. If greenhouse gases are really THE cause in the small global temperature increase we see so far, then drastic cuts in production would need to be done in order to reverse it. Cuts like NO MORE FLIGHTS to England or anywhere else in the world, No more car production. No more travel with petrol cars -- or electric for that matter (since electricity is created from oil or natural gas).

Such a cut back would cause much more harm to humanity than if the earth's temperature increased.

Finally, would journalists STOP insulting our intelligence by showing local weather phenomena, and claiming its cause was due to global warming?

[jm_rvel]

processor2,

If you seriously believe that global warming is a result of a vast liberal conspiracy or whining. Then the acceptance of the entire world, all of our allies, and all climate scientists not currently on Exxon's payroll; then you must be a blinded fool.

The Bush Administration has just accepted climate change, EPA, NOAA, Reagan's climate study group, and the international board of scientists all agree we are going to have major problems. Everyone knows that we are a major contributor to this problem, if you cannot accept it then you must be one of the few remaining ignorant a$$holes left proclaiming that the world is flat. Get with the program genius.