Agreed: Something Needs To Change In Iraq

Whether It's Now Or In The Fall, Both Sides In Congress Say Conditions Must Change

(CBS)  The troops for the "surge" strategy, which started in January, are now all in place. While the Bush administration and congressional Republicans say they are waiting to see how well it will work, critics say that the United States' increased military presence will do little to build a stable Iraq.

Appearing on Face the Nation, Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., said that members of his party believe judgment of the surge's effectiveness should be withheld until Ambassador Ryan Crocker and Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, deliver a progress report to Congress.

"I think the proper time to really make a serious evaluation of the direction we ought to head is in September," McConnell said.

Crocker, the U.S. Ambassador to Iraq, and Defense Secretary Robert Gates have said that the outlook for Iraq is a mixed picture but is not hopeless. Polls show, however, that public support for the war among Americans is dwindling, and violence in Iraq shows no signs of slowing.

Democratic Senator Carl Levin, the Chairman of the Armed Services Committee, said now is the time to go a different direction.

Although President Bush vetoed legislation passed by congressional Democrats setting a timetable for withdrawal, Levin said his party will try again to begin an American troop withdrawal. This time, he said, Democrats will be successful because they have support from more frustrated Republicans.

"We are going to be offering an amendment which will, in one form or another, set a timetable for the reduction of American troops starting in about 120 days," Levin told Bob Schieffer. "We have got to change this course. We have got to change the Iraqi mentality [of] thinking that they have got some kind of an open-ended commitment, which is what the president promised them a few months ago."

McConnell said he expects a change in policy to come, but he said he wants to see how the surge strategy works.

"I don't think we'll have the same level of troops, in all likelihood, that we have now," he said. "The Iraqis will have to step up, not only on the political side, but on the military side, to a greater extent."

It is the Iraqi government, McConnell said, that deserves the lions share of the blame for the chaos in Iraq.

"The Iraqi government, so far, has been a big disappointment," he said. "They've not done the things that they know they need to do to hold their country together."

But, former Congressman and chair of the Iraq Study Group, Lee Hamilton, told Schieffer that U.S. forces can't withdraw from Iraq until Iraqi forces can take over responsibility for security.

"Our primary mission today is the surge," Hamilton said. "We're not going to get out of Iraq unless we train better than we have the Iraqi forces and let them take over some of the responsibilities we now have."

McConnell said he thinks there is growing support for the recommendations made by Hamilton and James Baker in the Iraq Study Group report.

Released last year, the report stressed more dialog with regional powers like Syria and Iran while maintaining a strong military presence at Iraq's borders. It recommended against a troop surge.

"There is still no military solution to Iraq," Hamilton said on Face the Nation. "The military plays a hugely important role, but you must have vigorous, robust efforts to get a national reconciliation."

Both Levin and McConnell said that the Iraqi government has failed to live up to its part of the bargain and hasn't assumed control of the country.

"What's required here is for the President of the United States to tell the Iraqi leaders that we're going to begin to reduce our troops as the message to them that the responsibility for their own country is in their hands, not ours," Levin said.

The Iraqi congress is also thinking of taking a two-month summer vacation.

"You cannot do that while our troops are dying and being wounded and your troops are dying and being wounded and your people are being blown up," Levin said.

[brianbwb-2009]

to tbweb,

Gotta go to a meeting, nice discussing ideas with ya, hope to see ya on another post soon...

[brianbwb-2009]

to tbweb,

Now you got it, let them have it, bring our loved ones home NOW, not after September, and lets take our laws back and heal our own country's problems.

Let those cultures sort out their problems, it is their business.

It's a cold thought, knowing we let our president screw the place up, but hey, if the Germans can learn to live with their guilt, we can also.

I believe that holding Mr Bush personally responsible, in full view of the world, will do more to help rebuild America's image as a nation of law than anything else, and failure to do so will have the exact opposite effect...

[brianbwb-2009]

to tbweb,

I am currently in southeast Asia, it is early evening here, and the CNN news is different outside the US, I don't even turn of Fox.

The same words were said about the Communists, back then as yours are now about Radical Islam, but know that, while they are willing to die on orders, only the lower level "grunts" do this, when is the last time you heard of a high level schmuck, or a rich one blowing himself away?

The suicide bombers can be likened to the KKK, a bunch of brainwashed poor, barely educated people who represent Islam to the same degree that the KKK represents Christianity. They are a fringe group, more active than the KKK today, but the KKK in their heyday were just as despicable, and also hid their misdeeds behind their religion.

Our ability to cover news in more detail makes it seem worse, but how many of these incidents are really "Islamist motivated" as opposed to some local mafia-like activity in a land where anarchy is the rule, and just about everybody is Muslim?

We'll never know, the media doesn't want us to.

It is all just a sick game...

[tbweb]

brianbwb,,,

The Cuban missile Crisis, yes I remember that time. But the Russians are not fanatical Islam, the Russians can be reasoned with, the Russians know how to listen to the voices of reason, not radical Islam, there is no comparison, none! Radical Islam is suicidal, radical Islam are death lovers, they worship death, they see a sick honor in death.

[tbweb]

brianbwb,,,

I have the news on now, MSNBC just reported 111 died in Iraq on Monday, 111 deaths in a single day! Iraq is in a tail spin, speeding nose first into the ground. The horror of Iraq is unbelievable! I agree, let them have it, lets come home and circle the wagons and prepare for 9/11 part II.

[brianbwb-2009]

to tbweb,

Maybe I'm a little older than you, I remember the Cuban missile crisis, and the ensuing Russophobia that made many build bomb shelters. The TV played public service announcements on "duck and cover", so if nuked, you would be vaporized in a smaller package, news stories about alerts and saber rattling, and testing of ever more powerful bombs.

My parents felt the water cannons and police dogs unleashed on us during civil rights demonstrations, and older brother's friends were going to somewhere called "Vietnam", and coming home acting strange.

It seemed that the end was near then, but as my friend's father used to say "the white man is too greedy to actually use the bombs, its no good being king of a graveyard".

I still believe that, but not just for the "white man" but for all men. A cynical faith, you might say...

[brianbwb-2009]

to tbweb,

I was actually there just before the Bush madness, and things were peaceful even then. I was assisting in the organization of a Jazz festival(!) in Turkey, and an Iraqi entrepreneur contacted us to ask if we could extend the program to Baghdad. For the record, by the way, I am a Black American, and not Muslim.

The ensuing problems canceled our efforts, but nowhere was there the destruction and misery that is there now, despite Bush's claims to have made Iraq a better place.

All religions want to shape the world to their view, including Christians, the deal is do they have what it takes to make it so, the Shia do not.

They could not overcome resistance from Saudis, Israelis, Sunni Iraqis, and not to mention the other Muslim countries of the region, the vast majority Sunni.

The best Iran can hope for is control of the oil fields, and we should be ending our oil addiction anyway, let them have it, we can buy their dates and figs and carpets, but we should be using alternative energy anyway.

And this is the true heart of the matter.

[tbweb]

brianbwb,,,

I hope nothing I've written comes true! Like they say, prepare for the worst and hope for the best and don't get caught with your pants down! Bill Clinton once noted that Osama bin Laden was the worst criminal mind on the planet and must be stopped at all cost. We can't get no where near bin Laden, and who knows whats he's cooking up and he's had a lot of time to cook too! The Shiites in Iran and the Shiites in Iraq are one, the only thing that separates them is degrees of moderation, I don't trust that alliance as far as I can see it. I think the U.S. is severly underestimating their connection and bond, its a religious bond, stronger than the national bonds of Iraq and Iran. Shiites are Shiites first and Iraqis and Iranians second! The Shiites want to build a Shia cresent across the Middle East, don't think they don't and will with a U.S. exit and power vacuum in Iraq. I was looking at some old travel magazines from 1960 recently, the world and its cultures were happy, traveling and everything looks so peaceful in those old travel magazines. Wow, what the hell happened, this current world is far from that dream land and unreal, very scary and the end seems near with all these powerful weapons of mass destruction. Its only a matter of time before new horrors appear on the world stage and while I hope they don't they will, its inevitable, there is too much hate and revenge in the air, so thick you can cut it with a knife!

[brianbwb-2009]

to tbweb,

The reason I think so is that the Shia are fighting the Sunnis in a local battle only, it is part of the power struggle for control of Iraq. Even if the Shia succeed, they would not dare take the battle out of their own yard, don't confuse a local power struggle with what would surely be a global Muslim war.

I don't posit that the situation will immediately calm down after the US leaves, it will be messy, but now we are simply delaying the process of the factions sorting it out, trying to impose our own will on a people who don't want it.

As you yourself say, "other side wants war "like they do big time" the U.S. has little choice in the matter!" Exactly my point, they are going at it anyway, our being there just adds players to this obscene game.

As far as "normal", what we called "normal" was our own artificially imposed structure, that's gone forever.

If "this enemy wants a piece of our a s s," picture yourself as the victim of US sanctions, and later bombs, kidnappings, torture, murder, and all we have done to them since Bush started his lies, (and in Iran's case, the Shah even earlier), then answer truthfully, wouldn't you also want a piece of those who did such to you?

Lest we forget, the alleged hijackers were all Saudis, not Afghanis, Iraqis, or Iranian, so wouldn't you be at least a little peeved at being made to pay for the deeds of others?

Especially since 9/11 is really starting to smell like an inside job?

[tbweb]

brianbwb,,,

Interesting you think the Shiites will not go after the Sunnis when they are doing exactly that now! What makes you think that will calm down if the U.S. leaves? It will get much worst! The U.S. does not get to decide if its at war or peace, Pres. Bush nor Congress controls that! War and peace is a 2 way street and if the other side wants war "like they do big time" the U.S. has little choice in the matter! The U.S. is at war whether it wants to be at war or not so people should just accept that fact and deal with it! This idea that leaving Iraq and everything will go back to normal is total b u l l s h i t, this enemy wants a piece of our a s s, serious business and the Democrats are blowing smoke making Americans think peace will come with an Iraq pull out, it won't! I want what all Americans want, peace and quiet, but I know the deal, we are at war and it won't take another 9/11 to convince me. So since thats the case, we might as well get ready and play to win, like survival kits, food supplies, weapons to protect valuables from those roaming and unprepared, not to mention the 12 million illegals roaming the U.S. with no ID, what will they eat, not mine. I'm talking worst case and not being extreme or paranoid either, this enemy wants to rock our world and thats the deal! Be unprepared at your peril.