NRA, Democrats Team Up To Pass Gun Bill

After Virginia Tech Shootings, House Passes Bill To Strengthen National Background Check System

(CBS/AP)  After 52 years in Congress, John Dingell knows it sometimes takes a "rather curious alliance," such as between the National Rifle Association and the House's most fervent gun control advocate, to move legislation.

That's what took place Wednesday when the House, by voice vote, passed a gun control bill that Rep. Dingell, D-Mich., helped broker between the NRA and Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, D-N.Y.

With the NRA on board, the bill, which fixes flaws in the national gun background check system that allowed the Virginia Tech shooter to buy guns despite his mental health problems, has a good chance of becoming the first major gun control law in more than a decade.

"We’ll work with anyone, if you protect the rights of law-abiding people under the second amendment and you target people that shouldn't have guns," NRA chief Wayne LaPierre told CBS News Correspondent Sharyl Atkisson

"As the Virginia Tech shooting reminded us, there is an urgent national need to improve the background check system" to keep guns out of the hands of those barred from buying them, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said.

The measure would require states to automate their lists of convicted criminals and the mentally ill who are prohibited under a 1968 law from buying firearms, and report those lists to the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System, or NICS.

Seung-Hui Cho, who in April killed 32 students and faculty at Virginia Tech before taking his own life, had been ordered to undergo outpatient mental health treatment and should have been barred from buying the two guns he used in the rampage. But the state of Virginia never forwarded this information to the national background check system.

The House action came as a panel ordered by President Bush to investigate the Virginia Tech shootings issued its findings, including a recommendation that legal and financial barriers to NICS submissions be addressed.

Mr. Bush, in a statement, said the report made clear that better information sharing between federal and state authorities "is essential in helping to keep guns out of the wrong hands and to punish those who break the law." He said he was "closely following legislative efforts to strengthen the instant background check system."

The panel also urged federal agencies to expand programs to prevent school violence and said the Health and Human Services Department should focus on college students in its mental health public education campaign.

Virginia Tech President Charles Steger said the report disclosed "the deep complexities of the issues facing college campuses today" and would advance government scrutiny of issues related to safety vs. personal freedoms.

The House bill next moves to the Senate, where gun control advocate Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., says he is talking to NRA ally Sen. Larry Craig, R-Idaho, and there is a "very strong" chance of passage.

"When the NRA and I agree on legislation, you know that it's going to get through, become law and do some good," says Schumer.

The legislation requires state and federal agencies to transmit all relevant disqualifying records to the NICS database. It also provides $250 million a year over the next three years to help states meet those goals and it imposes penalties — including cuts in federal grants under an anti-crime law — on states that fail to meet benchmarks for automating their systems and supplying information to the NICS.

Virginia's Democratic Gov. Tim Kaine said Wednesday that in ordering state executive branch agencies to upgrade background check reporting last month he found that Virginia was one of only 22 states reporting any mental health information to the NICS. He said the House bill was “significant action to honor the memories of the victims who lost their lives at Virginia Tech.”

[gunownerdan]

"Today we need a nation of minute men; citizens who are not only prepared to take up arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as a basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom. The cause of liberty, the cause of American, cannot succeed with any lesser effort."
-- President John F. Kennedy, January 29, 1961
a-human-right.com

[samthetvcat]

Interesting constitutional question - the Brady Bill requirement that States report disqualifying records to the Federal database was struck down on 10A State sovereignty grounds leaving open the door if Federal funding had been provided to cover administration costs. It would seem to be ok if the NRA has endorsed the bill, but maybe Bush will veto it . . .

[infidel_us]

It's about time! If Kennedy-McCain's amnesty bill can do a thorough background check on an illegal alien with 24 hours, why should a law abiding US citizen have to wait 7 days for a weapon?

[drummer94]

Perhaps if there was just one pistelero on that campus the toll would have been less.

[lfitts1]

How sad--the congress when it comes to gun policy is bought and paid for by the NRA. Our leaders instead of doing what is best for the country, do what is best for their contributors and the special interests. Corruption and special interest overt or covert has become the currency of government.

Any way you figure it the US population is less safe because of the availability of guns and ammunition--don't believe it--please see the murder statistics in Canada. Forget all the other BS--just compare gun violence in those 2 countries and then rationalize some cockamamy arguement about how 'packing' makes you safer.

[ubrew12]

I still think they should reinstate the assault weapons ban.

[fascistusa]

The Neo-Con Fascists in Power want your Guns.

The NRA is a tool of the Government.

[duffyn]

I agree with John Kerry. If you want to shoot an assault rifle - join the Army. Plenty of opportunity there! I do support gun ownership and doing the background check on mental problems will help eliminate some problems. Although if cho couldn't get a gun, as violent as he was, he probably would've figured out some other kind of weapon.

[donnie900]

The first amendment isn't a right to insanity. Nor is it a protection for gun companies. Its about time we closely looked at our governing of these people. Who think that they're immune to prosecution like everybody else. Who think that they're tough because they carry a pistol and bully people around in the name of freedom.

These things should be scrutinized and criticized as much as any other piece of property is. And that man should not have had the capability to carry out his psychosis.

[donnie900]

Flag after flag is raised, again and again. And nobody listens until its too late. This is unacceptable. This system is going to function, whether liberal or conservative. It is going to function. It is going to work! That a man who is insane does not carry in his hands the capability to hurt anybody. And this will happen in my lifetime!

Something around here .. IS GOING TO WORK!

[robertr121]

If this bill is approved by the NRA you know it isn't worth the ink it's written with.

[infidel_us]

I agree with John Kerry. If you want to shoot an assault rifle - join the Army.
Posted by Duffynight at 02:05 PM : Jun 13, 2007

And if you want to vote for someone who shoots fleeing combatants in the back, then keep electing John Kerry.

[ubrew12]

Assault guns have made the news here in Hawaii twice recently: Two guys were caught trying to convert theirs to fully automatic, and two drug dealers killed another guy with fully automatic MAC10s. These guns are massacre's waiting to happen.

[lfitts1]

Kerry was a bad candidate, but he served. Meanwhile the chickenhawk brigade of the republicans got deferments and went AWOL--but when they are sending other peoples children---now they become quite brave.

[gunownerdan]

"The NRA is committed to constitutional rights. While most people think of us as focused on firearms, we are rather more focused on freedom. Yes, we concentrate on the Second Amendment, but the Second Amendment is about liberty. It's an insurance policy for all of your constitutional rights. The purpose of the Second Amendment is to make sure that you have the ability to protect your life, liberty and property, and those of your loved ones, against any who would try to take them from you. That includes your freedom to speak, worship, protest and vote. It includes the things you hold most dear."
- Sandy Froman, Former NRA President
http://www.nra.org

[ubrew12]

" 'the Second Amendment is about liberty.' Sandy Froman." Posted by GunOwnerDan at 03:07 PM : Jun 13, 2007

No, its about a 'well-regulated militia'. We the people have plenty of arms. We keep them in the hands of our military, ie our militia. It, and the national guard, are as 'well-regulated' as you can get. Anything less is a mob, and clearly not the intent of the 2nd Amendment.

[gunownerdan]

Amendment II
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

"The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age..."
-- Title 10, Section 311 of the U.S. Code.

Any questions?

[lorinkundert]

I never buy weapons from anyone required to report the transaction as that is none of the Governments business.

[gunownerdan]

If high-capacity semi-automatic pistols and "assault rifles" are only good for killing, shouldn't the President be worried about the Secret Service?

If the Government doesn't trust us with our guns, why should we trust them with theirs???

[lorinkundert]

"No, its about a 'well-regulated militia'." Patently incorrect, the second Amendment is comprised of 2 separate clauses each having a different application. The first clause deals with a militia the second clause deals with the people who are the individuals. The Constitution has always when using the word people pertained to the individual, as upheld in the recent appellate ruling in DC.

[gunnerv1]

ubrew12- You are not reading the first ten amendments in their entirty. Each and every one of them are about the INDIVIDUAL's rights, not a group, militia, military or in your words "mob". You are not allowed to pick and/or choose how you please or ignore parts. If you read each one completly, you will see that it's for the person. It's is not a "living" document, it's set in "stone" and there is only one way to change it. Also Washington D.C. just had their gun "rights" restored.

[gunownerdan]

"MILITIA" and the "PEOPLE".
What's the difference?

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
- George Mason

"To disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave them."
- George Mason

%u201CWho are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American.%u201D
- Tench Coxe, of Pennsylvania, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788

www.a-human-right.com/effective.html

[gunnerv1]

Gunownerdan; Thats why I have M.G.'s
ubrew12 A fact that their are over a quarter og a million Regerstered Machine Guns in private ownership (I have 3), guess how many have ever been used in a crime. 1 (one) and it was stolen by a rouge cop in Florida and used to kill a rival drug dealer. It's a fact, you may vet it with the NRA, SAR, BATFE. So your argument fails to hold water.

[gunnerv1]

lorinkundert - Don't brag about your transactions/dealings. you never know who's listening

[mike71067]

A perfect example of the liberal media's ignorance of the subject of gun laws:

"If the bill moves through the Senate and is signed into law by the president, it would be the most important gun control act since Congress banned some assault weapons in 1994, the last year Democrats controlled the House."

The "most important" gun law? That 1994 "assault weapons" ban was completely silly and did nothing to stop violent crime. I purchased an AR-15, 3 AK-47's, 2 SKS, an FN-FAL, and many other "assault-style weapons" legally during that ban. The only thing I couldn't own was a flash supressor or a bayonet lug.

[rushlimpdrug]

Yeah they can jump on this, but it takes foreeeeeeeeevvvvveeeeeeeeer to do anything about the border.
More laws on the LEGALS.

[xzavierbrown]

wow!! new gun law..now if we can only get the criminals to abide and if we can get the anti-gun liberals to support the law INSTEAD OF THE CRIMINAL. then we should all be okay..

[ubrew12]

"You are not reading the first ten amendments in their entirty. Each and every one of them are about the INDIVIDUAL's rights" Posted by gunnerv1 at 03:31 PM : Jun 13, 2007

It seems pretty clear to me what a 'well-regulated militia' is referring to, and that language is IN THE AMENDMENT (not an adjoining one). And if that is all able-bodied males above the age of 17 then re-institute the draft.

[gunownerdan]

mike71067,
One thing the ban did do was make high-capacity magines more than triple in price! It's a good idea to stock up on high-cap mags so if they pass another ban you can sell some of them for a huge profit.

[gunownerdan]

ubrew12,
A 'well-regulated militia' refers to armed civilians who can safely and properly use their weapons.
a-human-right.com

[lfitts1]

Yes--everyone is entitled to bear arms--from now on you can only have the guns that were available in 1776--knock yourselves out.

Right to bear arms--not an idividual right--right to raise a militia--why do you guys think tht all of social ills will be cured by more guns--there are more guns now than 5, 10 or 20 years ago and there is more violence--for the answer look to Canada--many fewer guns--much less violence--do you see a trend ?? Probably not--don't confuse you with the facts--your minds are made up !!!

[gunownerdan]

Yes--everyone is entitled to free speech--from now on you can only have quill pens and manual printing presses that were available in 1776--knock yourselves out.

[ubrew12]

"A 'well-regulated militia' refers to armed civilians who can safely and properly use their weapons." Posted by GunOwnerDan at 04:29 PM : Jun 13, 2007.
I favor annual firing range, cleaning capability, and police home inspections for proper storage and condition. I also favor a $500 reward for anonymous disclosure to police of any gun kept in irresponsible fashion (reward to be paid by the gun owner, who also loses it for a year). I think machine guns and assault guns that can be converted to machine guns should be illegal, 'cept maybe in rural areas where the chance of use in anger is less.

[gunownerdan]

"There is no doubt in my mind that millions of lives could have been saved if the people had not been 'brainwashed' about gun ownership and they had been well armed. Hitler's thugs and goons were not very brave when confronted by a gun. Gun haters always want to forget the WarsawGhetto uprising, which is a perfect example of how a ragtag, half starved group of Jews took up 10 handguns and made ***** out of the Nazi's."
- Theodore Haas, former prisoner of the infamous Dachau prisoner concentration camp

"At that time, a gun and a million dollars, the gun was worth more than a million dollars, because you could, at least, you could defend yourself with something."
- Frank Bleichman, Polish Jew who resisted the Nazis during WWII

For more information on the importance of civilian ownership of effective weapons, please visit:
www.a-human-right.com/effective.html

[rajani1-2009]

Why did they not do this before so many students got killed. NRA wants to make money so they will make any foolish phrase that "Guns don't kill people" and people listen to them.

[xzavierbrown]

Posted by Rajani1 at 05:12 PM : Jun 13, 2007
+ report abuse
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and who do you think kills people? but people, and these people needs to be regulated and not admired ..like some bleeding heart liberal

[sjc_1]

The NRA could not get on the other side of this issue, it would have made them look like the buffoons that they truly are. So they figured that if they get in on the legislation, at least they could shape it the way they wanted. I would like to think the the NRA does not want loonies to have guns, but some past positions have shown otherwise.

[gunownerdan]

sjc1 said:
"I would like to think the the NRA does not want loonies to have guns, but some past positions have shown otherwise."

Well sjc1, one man's loony is another man's president.

[susanhelit]

Well, aside from my own point of view on gun control - this is a Duh! bill, and it's a pity they couldn't pass it earlier! No one with mental health issues should be able to own a gun, and the only way for that to have meaning is to make sure the information is communicated between the appropriate agencies!


How hard is it to see that when someone has serious enough mental health issues, it does have to be, to some degree, society's business to know about it. At least enough that they can't buy guns, or work in a few sensitive fields (I wouldn't want Cho driving a school bus either).

[gustavo22-2009]

It is obvious that those speaking ill of the NRA and their "supposed" about face on this bill are uninformed on the NRA's stand on this issue for over a decade. The Brady group claims a victory in this matter when it is a victory for Americans across the board, ESPECIALLY THE NRA. The NRA has pushed for mental record checks AND the NICS checks on gun buyers. They are the ones who are for this common sense legislation without trampling the rights of law abiding citizens. To get the facts straight on the history of this issue go to NRANEWS.com and under the archives you will find Charlton Heston TV adds during the Clinton re-election campaign. Mr Heston clearly calls for mental record checks on gun buyers that Clinton fought AGAINST! Let's all get the facts straight! Especially you CBS news!

[dresser72]

I think everyone should be checked out throughly before they can buy a gun and also before they apply and get a concealed weapons permit. Why would anyone drawing a Social Security check for being mentally ill have the right to possess a concealed weapons permit and an arsonal of guns, living with his Alzheimer's diseased Mother. I look forward to the day they take his guns and permit away. Yesterday wouldn't have been soon enough for it to have happened to him. I've had him in court and the judge just acted like I was the bad person in the situation and so did the social worker. I hope this country wakes up soon.
Dresser72

[sparks224]

I think everyone in America should be required to carry a loaded, fully automatic, weapon on them at all times. Then everything would be great..........what er you lookin at

[evanesce7]

Almost all mental patients are not violent. Most are victims of trauma, including abuse, loss of a loved one, and shock from tragedies like war. If grieving VT students sought mental help, should they have less rights than other citizens? I have read there is a greater percentage of violent people in the general population than in the population of mental patients. It is psychologically abusive to frame mental patients in general as dangerous. People are often considered mental patients because they have strong emotions. However, emotions are not dangerous. Actions are dangerous. People who have been proven to be violent should not have guns. However, mental hospitals are allowd to lock up and diagnose people who have not done anything violent. Studies show mental health professionals are no better than chance at predicting who is a danger to self or others. So, people are locked up without probable cause. This is unconstitutional. We need proof before declaring people guilty enough to remove their rights. Just because someone is a mental patient does not mean they aren't a law-abiding citizen. Many people seek mental help now. Laws should not discriminate against them.

[susanhelit]

To be involuntarily committed, you have to be found to be a threat to yourself or others. Yeah, they should not be allowed to buy guns - it's not discrimination, it's common sense!


Sure, many may not be violent - at the moment. But to have an altered sense of reality, who knows what you will do with a gun?

Guns are an evil reality of life that will never go away at the hands of man.

Guns should be controlled as to the type of guns that can be pruchased and by whom.

I would never agree to a complete ban on guns leaving me and family defenseless in the face of a mad man depending solely upon the police to protect me.

That in itself is insane.

[evanesce7]

The point is that many mental health professionals have an altered sense of reality, because they are often wrong when they declare people are a danger to themselves or others. This is why they are no better than chance at determining who is a danger. This gun law should apply only to people who are actually violent. If all mental health professionals who make these judgments were reliable, they would inform judges that their opinions are often not reliable. This is why psychiatrists frequently can't agree on what's going on in a patient. Our laws should be based on better proof than this. Mental patients are declared guilty without proof. One patient diagnosed with depression talked about suicide while wandering around with a gun. This would have been enough to commit him involuntarily today. This man was Abraham Lincoln.

[erasmus6]

If no one was allowed to own a gun then there would be less reason to have to protect yourself.Where I live no one is allowed to own a gun, so I do not have to live in fear of being shot.

And as for not allowing someone that is mentally disturbed to own a gun, are you serious? Do you know how many mentally disturbed people are out there that haven't been DIAGNOSED as mentally disturbed? I can guarantee that there would be many that would be undetected. If the U.S. hadn't been so free with handing out guns the mentally disturbed wouldn't ALREADY have them.

[cfin5]

One problem that I did not see in the article, like I figured would not be there anyway. It is the "ANTI-DEPRESSANT DRUG" factor involved in all of these high profile killings from Columbine to Virginia Tech......I believe this was left out intentionally. Would'nt want the news media to rock the FDA's boat now would we! I'm surprised that it has not sunk already.

[gunownerdan]

"One man with a gun can control 100 without one. Make mass searches and hold executions for found arms."
- Lenin

"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We wouldn%u2019t let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?"
- Joseph Stalin

"Every Communist must grasp the truth, political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. Our principle is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the Party."
- Mao Zedong

"On the morrow of each conflict I gave the categorical order to confiscate the largest possible number of weapons of every sort and kind. This confiscation, which continues with the utmost energy, has given satisfactory results."
- Benito Mussolini

"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing."
- Adolf Hitler

"All military type firearms are to be handed in immediately...The SS, SA and Stahlhelm give every responsible opportunity of campaigning with them. Therefore anyone who does not belong to one of the above-named organizations and who unjustifiably nevertheless keeps his weapon...must be regarded as an enemy of the national government."
- SA Oberfuhrer of Bad Tolz, March, 1933

[lorinkundert]

No big deal, I'll just keep ignoring unconstitutional acts and go about my business.