PORT-OF-SPAIN, Trinidad, June 5, 2007
4th JFK Terror Suspect Surrenders
Guyanese Suspect In NYC Terror Plot Turns Himself In To Police In Trinidad
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Foiled Terror Plot Analysis
Two of four suspects in an alleged bomb plot against NYC's JFK Airport will appear in court in Trinidad, where they were arrested. Terrorism consultant Paul Kurtz discusses the case with Julie Chen.
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Abdel Nur, a suspect in the JFK bomb plot, surrendered to authorities in Trinidad on Tuesday. (CBS/Gov. of Trinidad)
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Storage tanks on the grounds of John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York. Offficials say a federal informant was key to stopping an alleged plot to blow up fuel lines at the airport. (AP)
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Abdel Nur turned himself in this morning around 11 a.m., according to the official. He said Nur was on his way to a police station in Port du Spain, Trinidad, and may have a court appearance this afternoon.
Nur, 57, is originally from Pakistan but is a citizen of Guyana.
He is the fourth man arrested in the alleged plot, including a former opposition member of Guyana's parliament and a former airport air cargo employee who was arrested in New York.
Nur is reportedly the uncle of former world welterweight boxing champion Andrew "Six Heads" Lewis, one of Guyana's most famous citizens.
U.S. authorities claim the alleged plotters unsuccessfully sought support in Trinidad from Jamaat al Muslimeen, a radical Islamic group that staged a deadly coup attempt in the Caribbean nation in 1990.
In addition to Nur, Trinidadian authorities are holding two suspects: Abdul Kadir, the former Guyanese lawmaker, and Kareem Ibrahim of Trinidad. They are fighting extradition to the United States.
The other suspect named, Russell Defreitas, is former JFK air cargo employee who was arrested in New York. He is a U.S. citizen native to Guyana, a former Dutch and British colony on the northern coast of South America.
While the intent to inflict major damage was apparent, CBS News terrorism consultant Paul Kurtz said the men were "a long way off from actually being able to carry out the plot."
A senior federal official told CBS News on Sunday the U.S. government considered the JFK cell operational "in the sense that they were taking affirmative steps to move forward with the planning" — undertaking surveillance, seeking to obtain funding — "but not in the sense that they had the explosives already or had selected a date to strike."
The leader of Jamaat al Muslimeen told The Associated Press on Monday that his group had no connection to the plot. "I know nothing about these men and I have nothing to do with whatever they are being charged for," said Yasin Abu Bakr, the longtime head of Jamaat al Muslimeen.
Bakr would not say if he knew any of the suspects.
The case was broken open by an informant — a twice-convicted drug dealer who found himself in the midst of what investigators called a terrorist plot conceived as more devastating than the Sept. 11 attacks.
"Would you like to die as a martyr?" the informant was asked, according to the indictment.
He unhesitatingly replied yes and soon was making surveillance trips around the airport — the "chicken farm," as the planners dubbed their target.
Authorities said the JFK scheme was an example of homegrown terrorism. Defreitas, 63, immigrated to the U.S. more than 30 years ago, but he told the federal informant that his feelings of disgust toward his adopted homeland had lingered for years.
"Before terrorism started in this country," he said in one secretly recorded conversation.
Defreitas was arrested Friday night outside Brooklyn's Lindenwood Diner — a spot once bugged by federal officials tracking former Gambino family boss John A. "Junior" Gotti.
Jamaat al Muslimeen, known for launching a bloody 1990 coup attempt in Trinidad that involved taking the prime minister and his Cabinet hostage, is not accused of offering the suspects any support. The group, whose followers are largely black converts to Sunni Islam, has faded as a political force in Trinidad while Abu Bakr fends off criminal charges of inciting violence.
© MMVII, CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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See all 59 Comments- You can put a ciggerette out in jet fuel, most of the piping was underground & thier explosives wouldn't have done much... Reality, it wasn't much of a threat at all.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pqOja0Bw9RE&mode=related&search=
Posted by j-whitman at 02:18 PM : Jun 05, 2007
Spoken like a kid who touched his tongue to a flagpole in 20 degree weather. Actually, the stuff is kerosene and it burns quite nicely as it has done in home furnaces for decades.
See, the thing is, that as a NeoCon and/or Bush supporter, you are by definition too stupid to understand that not everything is divided on party lines, people on both sides have both good and bad ideas, and that our president is not always right.
As far as you are concerned, anything more complicated than "You're either with us or you're with the terrorists" is too tough for you.
With that in mind, let me make a statement you might just be capable of grasping:
"You're either against Bush, or you're a moron."
And by the way - I'm not a "lib" or any other 3-letter package. It will almost certainly be beyond your ability to comprehend this, but plenty of conservatives hate Bush too. And plenty are capable of realizing that you don't fight terror by invading a country that had nothing to do with it.
Posted by mbcsmith at 02:39 PM : Jun 05, 2007
These guys are not inclined to give Bush any kudos for foiled plots. Here's how it works:
A) A plot is foiled. "Well, it wasn't much of a threat. Hardly worth mentioning."
B) An attack occurs. "See, with all of Bush's DOMESTIC SPYING, he STILL can't protect us."
It's a lose-lose for Bush. Just passing this on in case you want to ever save yourself some time/ grief.
Yes, you are correct. What it does NOT do, though (by a factor of about 500 degrees C) is burn hot enough to melt steel.
Anyone want to hazard a guess as to why all the support beams were pulled out of the wreckage of the towers, over the protests of the FBI, and shipped out of the country to be scrapped before the forensics team ever got to look at them?
2 words for you: explosives residue.
We are being lied to about 9/11: either lied to hide incompetence on an even greater scale than was obvious, or to hide the fact that the Towers were brought down by Bush and his administration, knowing that in the wake of such a calamity, they could play on the patriotism of Americans to do whatever they like.
And boy, have they. No more habeus corpus. Internal spying. (And it turns out, by the way, that according to the US government's own records, less than 1% of the warrantless wiretaps newly allowed under the Patriot Act have been for purposes of spying on suspected terrorists.) The country in massive debt, and hated around the world. The terror threat magnified. Gas at $4 a gallon ... just a coincidence, of course, that the Bush family are oilmen.
If that does not scare the hell out of you, especially given Bush's record, there is something very wrong with your head. In the US, it should not be possible for a man to name himself dictator.
Men like King George II of the USA are why we have the 2nd Amendment.
According the article, this guy Nur "is reportedly the uncle of former world welterweight boxing champion Andrew "Six Heads" Lewis, one of Guyana's most famous citizens. " Well, thats 6 heads more than George W Bush has!!! (sorry, couldn't resist!)
Flash point: 38 0C
Autoignition temperature: 210 0C
Freezing point: -47 0C (-40 0C for JET A)
Open air burning temperatures: 260-315 0C (500-599 0F)
Maximum burning temperature: 980 0C (1796 0F)
Density at 15 0C (60 0F): 0.775-0.840
melting point of typical structural steel; ~825:C (1517:F)
Now the black smoke, ever see insulation burning? Concrete exploding, plaster exploding, carpet burning in these temperatures?
It makes no difference if it rains it is the governments fault, they conspired for it to rain.Bush maybe many things namely a poor excuse for Howdy Doody but he is not responsible for every thing that goes wrong in the US let alone the world. No supporter of Bush or his ill begotten war in Iraq. It rains and sometimes it pours misery upon our nation, misery created by other individuals or nations.
- Believe only half of what you see.
- Believe nothing that you hear.
I find it convenient that these "terror" plots are being uncovered. A grand diversion and an easy way to remind us "that we are at war" so be very afraid.
And, I'm becoming very cynical in my old age.
I believe that Bush will go down in history as the living example of the BOY WHO CRIED WOLF. His blind pushing us into war without thought, without UN mandate, without sense, without even reading his own father's book on why it would have been a mistake to invade Iraq during the first Gulf War has forever tarnished his presidency. And, it is really all of his fault. Many people have gone to prison for years for having done less. He's lucky he isn't in jail.
My response was to the endless posts on 9-11 that it was contrived by the government.Bush is without a doubt the worst president this nation has had. He is not intelligent enough or sinister enough though to have planned 9-11. As in your own post where you stated that Bush did not even read his own father book on the Gulf War and Bush own claims of not being a reader, how could he be knowledgeable enough to pull off 9-11?
Posted by radiob at 03:45 PM : Jun 05, 2007
+ report abuse"
If 9-11 was an inside job, it was (of course) not done by one man alone.
If (and it is indeed an if) 9-11 was orchestrated by the gov't, Bush had help.
Bush is evil and stupid. Those around him are just evil. Cheney & his pals could pull off a 9-11 without a problem.
maximum burning temp of aviation fuel (as you state): 980C
And bear in mind that the only way to achieve that high of a temp is for the fuel to be under pressure and under constant ignition (as when in an engine). Open air burn temps are lower.
HOWEVER:
Steel is just the element iron that has been processed to control the amount of carbon. Iron, out of the ground, melts at around 1510 degrees C (27500F). Steel melts at around 1370 degrees C (25000F).
So, it is in fact not possible for burning aviation fuel to have melted the support beams in the Twin Towers as the government claims.
Posted by dfazio21 at 04:03 PM : Jun 05, 2007"
All you to do is look at your pathetic command of the language to see which of us is more knowledgable, dfazio21.
It's not just according to me that you're a moron. The fact that you don't know what I am talking about means that you, not I, are ignorant.
The world may indeed be full of terrorists. Unfortunately, the worst of them is in the White House.
Posted by notblue at 03:07 PM : Jun 05, 2007:"
Idiot: it was very clear that I was making a point that people who support Bush lack the ability to process complex ideas and think beyond sound bites. That is why I used a para-phrasing of Bush's own moronic statement to make that point.
The fact that you didn't get that is simply further proof that you truly do have to be stupid to support George Bush.
I will offer you some advice which you desperately need: It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove it.
I haven't made light of this attempted terrorist attack, so the rest of your post is just more of your usual meaningless babble.
Not lying the temperatures are from wikipedia.
I think even you should be able to handle a copy and paste, but just ask for instructions if you need them.
I promise to try to keep it simple, as you are clearly a child who got left behind.
Posted by ubrew12 at 04:10 PM : Jun 05, 2007"
Thank you, ubrew. Exactly on the money.
Another thing the NeoCons refuse to realize is that Bush's method of fighting terror not only doesn't work, but actually makes the problem far worse by breeding hatred throughout the world. Fighting terror as a law enforcement action is the only effective method, as shown by these arrests.
And, I see, so is mine - I meant 2,750 F, not 27,500 - oops! But in any case - the hottest temp aviation fuel can reach is still about 400 degrees Celsius below the melting point of steel.
There were actual pools of re-solidified molten metal at ground zero. If a fire manages to overcome the heat resistant properties of steel, raising that steels temperature to 2,800 degrees Fahrenheit, the steel will melt. If the fire fails to raise the steel's temperature to 2,800 degrees Fahrenheit, the steel will not melt. (Keep in mind, we're not talking about the temperature at which steel weakens and loses its structural integrity, we're talking about the temperature at which it is reduced to a molten state.)
Again, we call on common sense to answer a simple question: Under what circumstances can temperatures less than 2,800 degrees Fahrenheit reduce steel to a molten state? The answer is: Under no circumstances.
To date, nobody has suggested the fires on 9/11 reached temperatures of 2,800 degrees Fahrenheit. Perhaps that is because, just as steel has a maximum temperature it can withstand before it melts, fuel sources have a maximum temperature at which they can burn. NONE of the known fuel sources burning on 9/11 could have reached the required temperature to melt steel.
JET A-1
Flash point: 38 0C
Autoignition temperature: 210 0C
Freezing point: -47 0C (-40 0C for JET A)
Open air burning temperatures: 260-315 0C (500-599 0F)
Maximum burning temperature: 980 0C (1796 0F)
Density at 15 0C (60 0F): 0.775-0.840
Read this Jimibear
http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/WTC/MannyHerraResponse.htm
Posted by notblue at 05:05 PM : Jun 05, 2007
+ report abuse"
I respond to everything I see you say, notblue.
I fully realize the threat of terrorism. It is a legitimate threat, yes. However, the threat posed by terrorists is miniscule compared to the massive, mis-directed military effort designed (supposedly) to fight it. More damage has been done, more money spent and more lives lost in the so-called "war on terror" than could possibly have resulted from terrorist attacks.
$500 billion and counting fast. 3,400 dead and counting on our side, countless thousands in Iraq - a country with no ties to 9/11.
And for what? According to every report (and this should surprise no one) there are now more terrorists than when we started. We are killing innocents and creating hate. This will not stop terror; it will just lend it a legitimacy it does not deserve.
We need to fight terror as it was fought in this instance: law enforcement, investigation and arrest. The Bush War on Freedom in Iraq is sheer madness unless viewed as a money-making venture, whereupon it has a sick, evil logic.
Posted by notblue at 05:05 PM : Jun 05, 2007
+ report abuse"
I respond to everything I see you say, notblue.
I fully realize the threat of terrorism. It is a legitimate threat, yes. However, the threat posed by terrorists is miniscule compared to the massive, mis-directed military effort designed (supposedly) to fight it. More damage has been done, more money spent and more lives lost in the so-called "war on terror" than could possibly have resulted from terrorist attacks.
$500 billion and counting fast. 3,400 dead and counting on our side, countless thousands in Iraq - a country with no ties to 9/11.
And for what? According to every report (and this should surprise no one) there are now more terrorists than when we started. We are killing innocents and creating hate. This will not stop terror; it will just lend it a legitimacy it does not deserve.
We need to fight terror as it was fought in this instance: law enforcement, investigation and arrest. The Bush War on Freedom in Iraq is sheer madness unless viewed as a money-making venture, whereupon it has a sick, evil logic.
While it is true that in order to bring down the buildings, only weakening of the steel/welds would have been necessary, there were actual puddles of molten steel found. This is impossible if the official story is true, but there they were.
Once one has ruled out the impossible, one must consider other options, however apparently far-fetched and distasteful. Since the official story cannot possibly be true as presented, one of those options is that they did it themselves and are lying.
Another is that the way it happened would make them look even more incompetent (such as if the attacks combined explosives planted in the towers by terrorists with the plane attacks, which would be an even greater security lapse than the one that clearly took place) and they are lying about that.
Either way, our government is lying to us; I guess we should be used to that by now, though.
Posted by jimibear
Tell me in your courses in physics did you actually ever work with steel? Have you ever melted steel? Have you ever witnessed a fire from the inside of a building? I learned alot in college (theory) life has taught me theory is not always practical nor does it include variables. Secondary fires inside the WTC occured, insulation, wiring, pcs, printers,hydraulics,common cleaning supplies etc.
the south doesn't pay!
poor slave states don't have any money.
the rich, hardworking, educated blue states pay.
the south provides the wars!
ha,ha,ha.
war, hate, arrogance, phony christian republican creeps...
nothing good comes out of the south!
And for what? According to every report (and this should surprise no one) there are now more terrorists than when we started. We are killing innocents and creating hate. This will not stop terror; it will just lend it a legitimacy it does not deserve.
We need to fight terror as it was fought in this instance: law enforcement, investigation and arrest. The Bush War on Freedom in Iraq is sheer madness unless viewed as a money-making venture, whereupon it has a sick, evil logic.
Posted by jimibear at 05:48 PM : Jun 05, 2007
Reposting, because it deserves it. Good one, jimibear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIgoXQWiSlM#t51rEH3AtIY
1) well a lot of players on Wall Street knew something was up on Mon 9/10 with the level of activity on United and American airline options ... through the roof -
2) is it coincidence that the company in charge of security (Securacom/Stratesec) at the WTC and Dulles Airport (where Flight 77 supposedly flew out of) was headed by Marvin Bush (W's little brother) and Wirt Walker ... Marvin left in 2000, Walker left Securacom on 9/10/01 ... hmmm - coincidence - the day before 9/11 ?
The firm was financially backed by an investment firm, the Kuwaiti-American corporation..
do your research people ! why don't we hear about these things in the mainstream press ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm73wOuPL60&mode=related&search=
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