Catholic Bishop Raps Rudy On Abortion

Providence, R.I., Bishop Calls GOP Frontrunner's Position "Pathetic And Confusing"

(AP)  A Roman Catholic bishop is criticizing Rudy Giuliani, a Republican presidential candidate of the same faith, for statements on abortion that he labeled hypocritical.

"Rudy's public proclamations on abortion are pathetic and confusing. Even worse, they're hypocritical," Thomas J. Tobin, the bishop of Providence, R.I., wrote last week in a column in the Rhode Island Catholic.

Giuliani has stressed that while he's personally opposed to abortion, he believes women should be able to decide for themselves whether to terminate a pregnancy.

Tobin, who says he is not a Republican and tries to avoid partisan politics, said he would never back a candidate who supports legalized abortion, and he questioned Giuliani's integrity.

"As Catholics, we are called, indeed required, to be pro-life, to cherish and protect human life as a precious gift of God from the moment of conception until the time of natural death," Tobin wrote. "As a leader, as a public official, Rudy Giuliani has a special obligation in that regard."

The former New York City mayor's campaign declined to comment.

In 2004, Archbishop Raymond Burke caused a stir when said he would deny Communion to Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry, a Catholic who supports abortion rights. Burke later clarified the statement to say Catholics can vote for such candidates if they believe the candidate's stance on other moral issues outweighs the abortion-rights stance.

[catholickat]

Bishop Tobin was correct to speak about Rudy Giuliani

[pfmdad]

I don't see anything wrong with the bishop's comments. The Church said the same things about Kerry. I think he was intending to guide his flock as best he could. If you don't like it, ignore him. The real question is why we don't hear much from the leaders of the other pro-choice candidates' religions.

[kansas1946]

Unless Rudy has had an abortion, then the bishop needs to back off. We are not responsible for other peoples sins, only our own.

[smasterb]

Find if the Bishop wants to have a private conversation with Rudy about his moral values public and private. But for the Bishop to speak publically which can only one purpose to persuade catholic voters is active politics and as such he, the bishop and his diocease should pay taxes! If they are going to engage in politics!

Posted by ozilot

I really would appreciate if you would point out in the constitution where it says a religious leader may not express their views or sway opinion, taxpayer or not. Or how in doing so constitutes a State Sponsored Religion. Rudy Giuliani, like all of us has beliefs and they are not the ones we profess for the benefit of others they are the ones we live out in our daily lives. Being a politician is irrelevant in matters of character. Being in a position of authority requires greater commitment to integrity, not double standards. The Bill Clinton defense of what one does in there personal life doesn't affect how they perform in their public life is not only irrational it is immature.

[smasterb]

Find if the Bishop wants to have a private conversation with Rudy about his moral values public and private. But for the Bishop to speak publically which can only one purpose to persuade catholic voters is active politics and as such he, the bishop and his diocease should pay taxes! If they are going to engage in politics!

Posted by ozilot

I really would appreciate if you would point out in the constitution where it says a religious leader may not express their views or sway opinion, taxpayer or not. Or how in doing so constitutes a State Sponsored Religion. Rudy Giuliani, like all of us has beliefs and they are not the ones we profess for the benefit of others they are the ones we live out in our daily lives. Being a politician is irrelevant in matters of character. Being in a position of authority requires greater commitment to integrity, not double standards. The Bill Clinton defense of what one does in there personal life doesn't affect how they perform in their public life is not only irrational it is immature.

[smasterb]

So, don't let their people have abortions, even if it means that the child will be hungry all their lives, that they will be born with defects, that it may kill the mothers. Even if a mother does die, allowing an abortion for one reason might allow an abortion for another. Thus allow NO ABORTIONS. Logical, right?

Posted by Consciousnes

Finally... I know who decides when life is or is not worth living. Should we begin the killing of all those who fit your description of not being fit for life.

Thanks for more pseudo-altruism from the secular progressive religious extreme dogma.

[soldat44]

Actually, to correct an incorrect post, the Church has been unified against infanticide and abortion since the 1st century, when Roman women were content to either abort the results of their loose sexual escapades, or leave those children, newly born, to die in the elements.

The Church, out of very limited resources, cared for every abandoned child they came across-- and one might argue, that they do the same today in their many relief organizations and orphanages. One could argue, that no other institution in the history of mankind, has done as much good for people (child or otherwise) than the Church... for nearly 2000 years and counting.
Posted by Prolegomena at 03:15 PM : Jun 05, 2007

Beautiful! Thanks Prolegomena!

[soldat44]

When you deny the Church you deny Christ.

BTW - Where do you think our laws came from? They came from old English law which is based on the Magna Carta written by Charlemagne, a devout Catholic, after consulting with the Vatican, who's tenets are based on the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Ten Commandments.

[soldat44]

Nancy_Naive,

If you are Catholic, you really need to go talk to someone. If not, you need to read up on the church and it's teachings, dogma, etc., before rendering judgements on things you really don't understand.

Regards,

XOXOX :)
Posted by infidel_us at 02:27 PM : Jun 05, 2007

Perfect! Very well put.

Peace be with you.

[prolegomena]

Every philosophical perspective, across the religious landscape, are welcome in this nation's circle of debate. The marketplace of ideas, so to speak, is where we come together to discuss what is right, what is wrong, and what is useful in our Constitutional Republic. We are a mosaic of smaller assemblies, working together to ascertain truth, as it might be applied in the political and social instruments of our culture.

Giuliani is not only a member of our nation, but he is also a member of a particular ideological community. As such, he is under their jurisdiction for as long as he voluntarily desires to remain. Roman Catholics have every right to engage in the politics of a democratic republic, just as anyone else does. Everyone has a religion, and they all have consequences-- even the atheist who worships himself must see this, as he seeks to impose his will on the political process.

[soldat44]

The Catholic Church is the height of hypocrisy on Earth's. Peter is flipping on his X.

The Pope could walk down one flight of stairs, open a door, sell whatever is in the one room and end AIDS. So much wealth... what part of "render unto Caesar" do Catholics not understand?

Regards,
Posted by Nancy_Naive at 01:58 PM : Jun 05, 2007

If you are not Catholic it is none of your business to comment.

Yep, Nancy, that's the answer. Have ALL the Churches sell everything they own and feed the poor for a couple of days...then what? Tell me...what would you do besides complain and not take an active role in solving the world's problems...or are you just content to let others try and you just sit back and bit#h about it.
God help us.

[sy2502]

Why should his bishop give him trouble? Because he added that he will not pass laws to force his belief onto others?
Posted by sy2502 at 01:47 PM : Jun 05, 2007

There are no easy answers. The church believes in the sanctity of life and that life begins at inception. Libs should be more upset about this than anyone. After all, you all are aborting your future lib generations! You be extinct in your own time. :)
Posted by infidel_us at 02:19 PM : Jun 05, 2007

You still haven't answered my question. Is the bishop giving Giuliani trouble not because he doesn't subscribe to the church's position on abortion (which he said he does) but because he won't pass laws to force everybody else to act according to the church's position?

[soldat44]

Like any other obident Priest, he writes what the Pope would want him to write.
The catholic church has been against abortion since it found out that the more children that catholics have, the more money and power the catholic church has.
It is a classic dictatorship. Without the catholic congregations they have, the Pope would be nothing, no money, no political or any other kind of influence. So, don't let their people have abortions, even if it means that the child will be hungry all their lives, that they will be born with defects, that it may kill the mothers. Even if a mother does die, allowing an abortion for one reason might allow an abortion for another. Thus allow NO ABORTIONS. Logical, right?
Posted by Consciousnes at 01:37 PM : Jun 05, 2007

Wow!

[susanhelit]

The Catholic Church (along with other religions trying to do the same things) is ramming it's religion down my throat when they try to pass laws based on religion, to force me to live by their religious laws rather than my own. It's pretty simple - seperation of church and state! We've known it for many hundreds of years, but the churches keep pushing to put their laws into our government.

[soldat44]

Catholoic church should not be trying to ramm it's beliefs down my throat.
Posted by lfitts1 at 01:20 PM : Jun 05, 2007

And how are they doing that to you personally? Just curious.

[susanhelit]

(cont'd) The bishop is either a hypocrite or an idiot, not to see this. I suspect a hypocrite - he's playing confused to try to put pressure on Rudy to mix his religion into our country's laws.


I wonder where the bishops and such are for all the other candidates, with regards to their position on the death penalty? Funny how that never gets mentioned.

[susanhelit]

As Catholics, you are supposed to cherish and preserve life. As a politician, you are supposed to preserve the Constitution, including freedom of religion, separation of church and state. I don't see the conflict. So long as Rudy doesn't have an abortion (pretty impossible), nor force one on someone else, he's a good Catholic. As a politician though, he can't push for laws that merge church and state, laws based on a religious position.

[infidel_us]

Nancy_Naive,

If you are Catholic, you really need to go talk to someone. If not, you need to read up on the church and it's teachings, dogma, etc., before rendering judgements on things you really don't understand.

Regards,

XOXOX :)

[infidel_us]

Why should his bishop give him trouble? Because he added that he will not pass laws to force his belief onto others?
Posted by sy2502 at 01:47 PM : Jun 05, 2007

There are no easy answers. The church believes in the sanctity of life and that life begins at inception. Libs should be more upset about this than anyone. After all, you all are aborting your future lib generations! You be extinct in your own time. :)

[sy2502]

Good! As a Catholic, I was happy when a bishop stood up to Kerry and would not offer him the Sacrament of Communion. Why should he? Either live the faith and make it apply or stand aside and let it deteriorate.
If Kerry didn't deserve it, then neither should Rudy or any other pro choice candidate who is Catholic.
Posted by infidel_us at 01:08 PM : Jun 05, 2007

Giuliani already said his belief is in line with that of the Catholic Church, that abortion is wrong. Why should his bishop give him trouble? Because he added that he will not pass laws to force his belief onto others? Of course, with the Catholic Church's past of Inquisition, torture and burning at the stake of those who don't agree with them, I can see why the bishop is still not happy.