"Reform Math" Leaves Some Perplexed

New Curriculum Has Some Parents So Concerned, They're Taking Matters Into Their Own Hands

(CBS)  Remember when there was only one right answer to a math problem?

Not anymore.

“What does estimating mean?” a teacher asks a student.

“It's something like, reasonably close,” says a student.

“Good I like the word reasonable, 'It’s reasonably close,' he said," says the teacher.

And that is good enough here in Abington, Penn., where they’re teaching “reform math.”

Instead of endless memorization and multiplication tables, in this kind of math, “reasonably close” is good enough.

“There's a time when you want to do mental arithmetic, where something works much more quickly in your head. There's a time for paper and pencil computation, and there's also a time to use a calculator,” says Amy Dillard, author of “Everyday Mathematics,” a reform math textbook.

About a quarter of the nation's schools are now teaching reform math. But some parents say it's just "fuzzy" math, and it's bringing down scores on tests mandated by the No Child Left Behind act.

Carol Rounds is trying to get her son’s school to switch to a more traditional math program.

“There are no numbers in this homework. It's just amazing — for math homework,” says Rounds.

She says her son Emerson, a second grader in New Jersey, is just not getting the basics.

She shows her son a flash card that has the problem 10 minus 7.

“How much is this one?” she asks.

“I don't know,” Emerson says.

So she has taken matters into her own hands, and is teaching him the old fashioned way.

“It's ok, how do you get there? You can use your fingers,” Rounds says.

“Do kids get bored by drilling? Yes. Do they get empowered by getting the knowledge they ultimately gain from memorization? Yes, they get empowered,” she says.

Reform math isn’t exactly new. It’s been around for about 15 years. It was inspired by a group of educators to combat slumping math scores and sleeping students. But today even some of those educators say some school districts have taken it too far.

Still, reform math supporters say their studies show that their programs help kids score higher.

“We're preparing kids now for jobs that we don't even know are going to exist, and we can't be teaching them the same mathematics that we did years and years ago, we really have to prepare them for the workforce that they'll be headed to,” says Dillard.

Both sides are trying to give kids the tools they need for the future, the two sides just can’t agree on the best way to solve the problem.

[omega39-2009]

I certainly wouldn't want to cross a bridge or fly on a plane designed by someone who did the math and came "reasonably close".

[pixelslinger]

I see it now.... the WTC Memorial - architected to be reasonably close to structurally sound.

How about those new smart missiles? Guaranteed to hit reasonably close to what you were aiming at!

[lochlan-2009]

How much more evidence do you need American sheeple? They are dumbing you down.

WAKE UP!!!!!

[sharncedar]

On the other hand, wouldn't it be nice to have a budget that was reasonably close to balanced (or in surplus as any prudent country would do). Wouldn't be nice to have a war that was reasonably close to victory. Wouldn't it be nice if we had a democracy in which we were reasonably close to having elections based on substance instead of money.

Reasonably close would be really, really improved for our government, maybe that's why they are teaching this stuff.

I use my multiplication tables every day in some form or another. I am so glad I memorized them in grammar school. It saves me a great deal of time. Also, I'm not a slave to a calculator. I think it is a mistake not to learn them!

[hypnotoad72]

"%u201CWe're preparing kids now for jobs that we don't even know are going to exist, and we can't be teaching them the same mathematics that we did years and years ago, we really have to prepare them for the workforce that they'll be headed to,%u201D says Dillard. "

Well if they're not going to exist thanks to offshoring or computer automation, isn't it not cost effective to teach it? What happened to standardization, planning for the future, and so on?

Regardless of new methods, the old methods lay down the groundwork for all math - and I'm sorry some children don't want to learn it. We'll always need people to collect the garbage... even if the kid was the world's foremost genius at it, the job would still be offshored anyway.

BTW: 10-7=3. If a kid can't understand something so blasted fundamental, there's a fundamental problem going on. And it's not about rote memorization, it's about applying a formula. Those instructional tables are useful only to a certain degree.

[barbaraf4]

"I certainly wouldn't want to cross a bridge or fly on a plane designed by someone who did the math and came 'reasonably close'."
Posted by omega39 at 09:04 PM : May 26, 2007

I agree. I have always thought that math was an exact science. Everything from medicine to engineering require exact calculations. If this is the norm, then NASA will need to look elsewhere for scientists and engineers for future generations.

[justfacts2]

Ever wonder why kids and teenagers today cannot add, subtract, multiply, divide, do fractions, or count back change? THIS IS THE REASON! All of these so-called "A" students that graduate from high school, that have been taught this math, have to take remedial math when they get into college because colleges believe in the tried and true traditional math. And if you ever wonder why so many other countries are surpassing us, you don't have to look any further than this article. This has to be one of the dumbest ideas ever created. No wonder people homeschool their kids or send them to a private school.

[retmilspouse]

Wow I this subject was available way back in my elementary school days then I would have made all A's in math!!!! Somehow I just can't see the Nuns at my school going for this type of math.

[poeticreator]

On the Lincoln Memorial:

%u201CIf a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be%u201D

[poeticreator]

On the Lincoln Memorial:

%u201CIf a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be%u201D

[poeticreator]

On the Lincoln Memorial:

%u201CIf a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be%u201D

[poeticreator]

On the Lincoln Memorial:

%u201CIf a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be%u201D

[poeticreator]

On the Lincoln Memorial:

%u201CIf a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be%u201D

[poeticreator]

woops, sorry, about the repeats

[incog-nito]

Maybe they should call it "flunkie math" instead.

[glaciersurf]

I know this new way seems disturbing to most parents; mostly because this is so drastically different. The ideas of reform math is to teach why we do multiplication and why we do division. As a university student, most students can do the math but have no understanding of why they do the calculations that they do. In order to solve problems we haven't answered yet that understanding needs to be there. That is the point of reform math.

[guest173]

you have to learn the exact math, if people rely on estimates for everything, the math is only going to get even harder, and this kind of guessing math is way to prone to errors. Are the teachers purposely encouraging laziness and dumbness? This guessing is not the way to learn math, math is work, but all studying is, and being accurate in the details often makes a big difference.

[kaiyo4u]

When I'm bidding a job and they want a ball park figure, I tell them it's a guestimation... Sounds like the new math... I wouldn't do a job based on my guestimation, nor would I expect my customer to either. The bid is done with rock solid math done the tried and true way with pencil and paper. The figures are at the least double checked before a proposal is sent and contract is signed.

[ullamike]

This is nonsense created by math education faculty with no appreciation of what real mathematicians do. There is no royal road to mathematics; the dues must be paid. However, at the same time, students should be given hard, interesting problems with simple statements, and they should be challenged to work those problems out totally by themselves. For example, "If there are 14 people in a room, how many handshakes must take place if everyone has shaken all the others hands?" Give a formula for n people. Argue that your formula is correct. 11 year-old work.

[andor3]

An excellent idea. People who oppose this idea simply don't understand math. There is no such thing as exact math in the real world, and students who are (mis)led to believe that there is are badly educated. I work in science and graduates believing in exact math is a huge problem in scientific fields these days--most technical managers and educators are familiar with the issue. Basically people trust any answer they get from a calculator or computer, without any feel for how reasonable it is, what it means, or how it was calculated. This wastes huge amounts of time when young engineers report results that make no sense, with no "feeling" for the numbers.

[jiohdi]

most people now have cell phones which mostly all have calculators built in, so they are resonably close to a calculator at all times and just as we lost phenomenal memories with the invention of type set that made books availible to all, we will lose significant math understanding, yet that does not mean we cannot open up new areas of thought such as fuzzy logic, which contrary to most thought is actually far more useful to computers doing real time math for real time applications than traditional logic.

"Close" only counts with nukes and hand grenades

[ullamike]

Estimation is useful as a topic in math education. It is totally inappropriate as a method to teach foundations. What we need are teachers that can reveal the beauty and depth of mathematics and its historical importance to science and the arts. Those of us who became mathematicians had the good fortune to have such teachers somewhere along the way.

[phil-in-fin]

Can't wait to pay my taxes using this "new" method ...

[bobgee_1999]

I don't blame people for being upset by this article, because it is extraordinarily poorly written. What we need is reform journalism. Either the school system or the news network here is being hugely irresponsible. Probably both.

"Fuzzy" or "reform" math is more along the lines of math theory, and that's a good thing, but it should be taught as such, not as a replacement for basic math skills. This article doesn't explain that at all.

[aegle55]

These people who think they are teaching or advocating a system, Try this: If they are married and produce two kids, is there only a 'Reform' child in the family? Math is an exact science. 2 + 2 is 4 whether a person is in Antarctica or Notrees, Texas. If a population count is taken, lets take all the people who believe in the 'Reform' thing and ship them to Antarctica or Notrees. That way, these territories will only have an increase in 'Reform' citizens. I hope my grammar, punctuation and spelling is correct or maybe we should have 'Reform' language and syntax.

[mizpah63]

How many teachers who teach reform math will be satisfied with a paycheck that is reasonably close? Let's see those hands!

[btree50]

Education is in a sorry state today in this country. My step-son is being dumbed down himself. Any "homework"he does, all he has to do is turn it in to get an A, it makes no difference if the work is correct or not. One year they taught him a math process called skinnies and flats. THE most stupid thing I have ever seen. It has to be fun to learn today, rewards, parties etc. The reward should be you do the work well and you get to move on in grades, no more. Its more like advanced day care.

[drummer94]

OH come ON! I mean,really, how much advanced math do you need on a daily basis? Write a check for 75 bucks for a few gallons of gas, deduct that from your 100 dollar balance and, wa-la, 25 bucks left. DUH! "Don't fix it if it ain't broke."

[ullamike]

How much advanced maths do you need?

Answer: All that you are capable of achieving.

Mathematics is the language of science, and the one sure ticket to the future. With a sound mathematical and logical foundation, everything else (except perhaps human relationships) is learnable.

The ability to abstract, to argue correctly, and to communicate ideas is the most sought after human quality. The US (and several other Western countries) are dumbing down on mathematical training, and they will all pay the price.

[ullamike]

How much advanced maths do you need?

Answer: All that you are capable of achieving.

Mathematics is the language of science, and the one sure ticket to the future. With a sound mathematical and logical foundation, everything else (except perhaps human relationships) is learnable.

The ability to abstract, to argue correctly, and to communicate ideas is the most sought after human quality. The US (and several other Western countries) are dumbing down on mathematical training, and they will all pay the price.

[ullamike]

How much advanced maths do you need?

Answer: All that you are capable of achieving.

Mathematics is the language of science, and the one sure ticket to the future. With a sound mathematical and logical foundation, everything else (except perhaps human relationships) is learnable.

The ability to abstract, to argue correctly, and to communicate ideas is the most sought after human quality. The US (and several other Western countries) are dumbing down on mathematical training, and they will all pay the price.

[ullamike]

How much advanced maths do you need?

Answer: All that you are capable of achieving.

Mathematics is the language of science, and the one sure ticket to the future. With a sound mathematical and logical foundation, everything else (except perhaps human relationships) is learnable.

The ability to abstract, to argue correctly, and to communicate ideas is the most sought after human quality. The US (and several other Western countries) are dumbing down on mathematical training, and they will all pay the price.

[ullamike]

How much advanced maths do you need?

Answer: All that you are capable of achieving.

Mathematics is the language of science, and the one sure ticket to the future. With a sound mathematical and logical foundation, everything else (except perhaps human relationships) is learnable.

The ability to abstract, to argue correctly, and to communicate ideas is the most sought after human quality. The US (and several other Western countries) are dumbing down on mathematical training, and they will all pay the price.

[ullamike]

How much advanced maths do you need?

Answer: All that you are capable of achieving.

Mathematics is the language of science, and the one sure ticket to the future. With a sound mathematical and logical foundation, everything else (except perhaps human relationships) is learnable.

The ability to abstract, to argue correctly, and to communicate ideas is the most sought after human quality. The US (and several other Western countries) are dumbing down on mathematical training, and they will all pay the price.

[drummer94]

Oh! You mean you use it to tell you when to take your paw off the publish button?

[prelgovisk]

Use fuzzy math for writing contracts and paychecks for those teachers.

[pseudosig]

Maybe this will inspire the subject of "insignificant figures" for scientists and engineers. That'll keep America dead last in this technological era.

[dmitch115]

It makes me wonder who told those "teachers" to teach this curriculum. Most of the time those who set the curriculum are those who don't teach and some have never taught. Do you think those who support No Child Left Behind did the "fuzzy" math when they decided that by a certain year 100% of students would pass the Standards of Learning test even if the child is a special needs student with limited academic ability? The stress of No Child Left Behind has demanded that school systems leave no stone unturned as to the methods in which they teach the skills and facts that are going to be tested. The stakes are too high not to. Ask any system that has been sanctioned. They will tell you what it is like for someone to come into their classroom and tell them what they can and cannot teach. Nine year old children being asked to identify Greek and Roman architecture, seven year old children being asked to understand interest from stocks, bonds and real estate, etc. What are we doing? I really don't think it's the teachers here, I think it's those who set the policy. They are the ones doing the "fuzzy math".

[jt_lancer]

Another reason not to send your kids to publick skoolz.

[jt_lancer]

Imagine cashiers at the grocery or convenience store practicing 'reform math' when giving you change for your purchase! I doubt they would remain employed for long. Soupport yer publick skoolz!!!

[kesac4650]

I will just bet, that we will find out in the future that their is no more substance to this story than the original "ebonics" story that we were first fed..

[a3avon]

As unbelievable as it may seem, Everyday Math is teaching amost 3 million children in the US alone. There are other standards based programs like Investigations (TERC), Connected Math, and others that are being used on even more. They are clearly curricular experiments (National Research Council) and last time I checked no one asked my permission to use my children as guinea pigs. These programs have been around long enough to know that they are not working. They are failed experiments that are only beneficial to the publishing companies that continue to line their pockets at the expense of future generations. As long as this fallacy continues to gain momentum,we will surely continue to see our nations standings in math and science in a frenzied spiral to the bottom.

Can you imagine a math teacher taking his 30 kids on a field trip and does a head count on the way back and only counts 29 and decideds that is close enough?

[vancouverboo]

Is it easier for the schoolteachers? Yes. Then it will be done.

[ne_patriot7]

Can you imagine a math teacher taking his 30 kids on a field trip and does a head count on the way back and only counts 29 and decideds that is close enough?
Posted by ncolsens at 10:17 AM : May 27, 2007


Not a problem... at the rate we are going, in another 30 years teachers won't be able to count that high...

[andor3]

My concern is that reform math needs to be required quickly in ALL schools to keep the US competitive. Talk to managers in the workplace or any science or tech industry leader and you find the problems caused by traditional math teaching.

Students today graduate with no appreciation for the application of math, no feeling for the numbers, and often have no interest in math or science careers because they have been forced to spend ridiculous amounts of time in rote memorization and calculation.

Should architects start building houses with half-bedrooms because average families have 2.5 kids? [since other commenters are confused between exact math and integer math as it applies to people].

Why is it that the older generation wants to be sure that current students are as badly educated as they were?

[a3avon]

Reform math is not a new concept. It is quickly approaching it's second decade thanks to NCTM. In those years the US has seen it's students place on international assessments such as the TIMSS (Trends in International Math and Science Study) sprial downward.

In those years countries like Singapore, Japan and certain Eastern European countries have raced to the top. So, how are these top tier countries teaching math to their students... it's NOT reform math, it's much more traditional. Who do you think is getting all the high tech jobs that require advanced math/science? It's not many Americans. How could that possibly prove that our reform math is working?

Something for the "younger" generation of educators to think about from an "older" generation parent who wants her children to have opportunities for success in a global economy.

[MIpapaof4]

square root of 64 divided by 4 plus 8-5=unknown quantity Guess I'll guess a number less than 12 close enough