May 12, 2007

The Abstinence Follies

The Nation: Those Who Preach Abstinence Are Often Hypocrites, But The Policy Itself Is Even Worse

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    Meg Oliver reports on a new report that calls abstinence-only education ineffective; more healthy foods in school lunchrooms; and government changes to reduce prescription drug costs.

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(The Nation)  This column was written by the editors of the Nation.


So far, the most significant player to show up on Washington madam Deborah Jeane Palfrey's much-discussed client list is USAID chief Randall Tobias, the former pharmaceutical company CEO who ran Bush's global AIDS initiative for its first three years. His ignominious tenure as AIDS ambassador was marked by a preference for pricey brand-name HIV drugs over cheap generics, which sharply reduced the number of people who could be treated. Ironically, given his regular "massages" from call girls, when we can surmise he ignored the abstinence-only instruction to "keep all of your clothes all the way on all of the time," Tobias was also an avid defender of the President's puritanical approach to HIV prevention.

Tobias was the hatchet man who forced every U.S. grant recipient to publicly condemn prostitution — even struggling outfits doing the sensitive work of persuading destitute sex workers to use condoms. A forthcoming study from the Center for Health and Gender Equity of five Asian countries where commercial sex is driving the AIDS epidemic found that the policy has resulted in the closure of drop-in centers for street prostitutes and a scaling back of other successful prevention efforts.

It was Tom DeLay's ethically challenged Congress that slapped the global AIDS initiative with a one-third abstinence earmark on prevention. Tobias promoted this approach so zealously that in some countries, like Nigeria, nearly 70 percent of all U.S. dollars granted to prevent the sexual transmission of HIV were channeled toward abstinence.

Tobias is not the first abstinence czar to leave his job after running afoul of the moral agenda he promoted. Claude Allen, once the leading White House abstinence advocate, stepped down as domestic policy adviser last year after he was caught stealing. Ted Haggard, once head of the National Association of Evangelicals — powerful boosters of abstinence-only spending — resigned last fall after a gay hustler named him as a client. But Tobias's fall comes as momentum is finally building against the $2.5 billion-and-counting abstinence boondoggle.

Though the Institute of Medicine called for the elimination of abstinence-only programs in 2000, Bush set about doubling their budget instead. Last month the Administration's own study — mandated by Congress a decade ago but delayed while ideological spinmeisters handicapped the criteria to help produce favorable results — was finally released. Posted quietly on the web without even a press release, it affirmed what every academic study had found before: Preaching abstinence doesn't produce it. Numerous studies show that contraceptive access cuts teen pregnancy rates and condom education dramatically reduces HIV transmission.

As with opposition to the war, the American people are ahead of Congress on this issue. A recent study found that 82 percent of Americans want comprehensive sex education for their kids. Nine states have now turned down the tempting pot of abstinence money, including "red state" Montana. Abstinence funding should go the way of Randall Tobias. Legislation like the Pathway Act, which would revoke the abstinence earmark on global AIDS spending, and the Real Act, which would allocate funds for comprehensive sex ed, both introduced by Barbara Lee, need muscle from Democratic leaders. When the President's AIDS initiative comes up for reauthorization in two years, Congress should strike the prostitution pledge and the ban on needle exchange.

The moral contradictions of the abstinence-mongers speak eloquently to the folly of basing public health decisions on religious injunctions and fantasies of social control. It's time for Congress to stop this dangerous crusade, both here and abroad.

By the editors of the Nation
Reprinted with permission from the The Nation.



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Add a Comment See all 44 Comments
by hsinco-2009 May 12, 2007 7:36 AM PDT
If Republicons stopped breeding all together, this country would be way better off!
Reply to this comment
by victoriarum May 12, 2007 8:28 AM PDT
Being abstinate shows self-restraint of the human will, God Bless you for being in control of your own self-will instead of letting the worldly desires draw you there.

Pray for Peace.
Reply to this comment
by blazercoach1 May 12, 2007 8:38 AM PDT
Those who preach environmentalism are often hypocrites as well.

As an environmentalist AND an advocate of abstinence, I hope that the humanity (some call this "hypocrisy") of those who recognize the value of both doesn't cause others to devalue their importance.

Remember, MLK wasn't spotless, Ghandi beat his wife, Al Gore lives in a mansion. This doesn't mean that their messages are bogus.
Reply to this comment
by blazercoach1 May 12, 2007 8:42 AM PDT
Those who preach environmentalism are often hypocrites as well.

As an environmentalist AND an advocate of abstinence, I hope that the humanity (some call this "hypocrisy") of those who recognize the value of both doesn't cause others to devalue their importance.

Remember, MLK wasn't spotless, Ghandi beat his wife, Al Gore lives in a mansion. This doesn't mean that their messages are bogus....just that their spokespersons are HUMAN.
Reply to this comment
by blazercoach1 May 12, 2007 8:45 AM PDT
Those who preach environmentalism are often hypocrites as well.

As an environmentalist AND an advocate of abstinence, I hope that the humanity (some call this "hypocrisy") of those who recognize the value of both doesn't cause others to devalue their importance.

Remember, MLK wasn't spotless, Ghandi beat his wife, Al Gore lives in a mansion. This doesn't mean that their messages are bogus....just that their spokespersons are HUMAN.

By the way....PREACHING environmentalism, PREACHING safe driving, PREACHING financial responsibility doesn't produce it either. PRACTICING does.
Reply to this comment
by victoriarum May 12, 2007 9:29 AM PDT
Being abstinate shows self-restraint of the human will, God Bless you for being in control of your own self-will instead of letting the worldly desires draw you there.

Pray for Peace.
Reply to this comment
by hypnotoad72 May 12, 2007 10:01 AM PDT
blazercoach1 - precisely. Folks on both sides of the aisle fail their own standards. And expect everyone else to live by them. Now I don't mind cleaning up my own act, but if these same congresscritters want to be treated seriously, they need to clean up their own act.

Especially Gore; his excuse of "carbon credits" to justify his supersized lifestyle is a joke. If you equate "carbon credits" to "credit cards", complete with annual fee and 25% APR... and the company he works for, their record is less than stellar too... (http://www.badapple.biz - very informative.)
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by hypnotoad72 May 12, 2007 10:10 AM PDT
VictoriaRum - I must agree, and the concept of self-restraint transcends sexuality as well.
Reply to this comment
by hypnotoad72 May 12, 2007 10:27 AM PDT
What's wrong with abstinence anyway? *** should be special between two people; not just a free giveaway that encourages the spread of disease and/or emotional grief. (Don't get me started on people who cheat...)

The sad part is, so few treat it that way - with everyone else laughing at them.

It seems we will have the last laugh. Which is an odd sort of shame; we're watching everyone else suffer or die from the various forms of VD.
Reply to this comment
by sankekorafi May 12, 2007 11:54 AM PDT
The same study showed, however, that teenagers subjected to this rediculous Abstinance education still knew about birth control and condom use, and used them about as often as teenagers that had gone through common sense *** education programs. Thank goodness for the internet!

At any rate, I really regret that my school was one of those that preached abstinance. I've discussed *** ed with many peers who did not go through such a program and I feel like I missed out on a lot of real information. Scare tactics, in the case of a normal physical phenomenon, apparently don't work very well. Too bad the religious people of this country will continue to cheat our kids out of real *** education.
Reply to this comment
by chalres-2009 May 12, 2007 12:09 PM PDT
blazercoach1, I can agree with you about the message. However, actions speak louder then words. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. Here is what we do. Before passing out condoms, put a warning on the pack that says (*** can kill you and Abstinence is the only to avoid death by ***).
Reply to this comment
by mcvet May 12, 2007 12:59 PM PDT
What's wrong with abstinence anyway? *** should be special between two people; not just a free giveaway that encourages the spread of disease and/or emotional grief. (Don't get me started on people who cheat...)

The sad part is, so few treat it that way - with everyone else laughing at them.

It seems we will have the last laugh. Which is an odd sort of shame; we're watching everyone else suffer or die from the various forms of VD.

Posted by hypnotoad72 at 10:27 AM : May 12, 2007

A better question is when will Religious Nazi's stop with their social control idea's. It doesn't WORK period! It's PROVEN not to work and your RELIGIOUS BELIEFS have nothing what so ever to do with it. Every time we allow the Religious Nazi's to take control and you do NOT have to look hard at history to see this, we find Bigotry, Hate, Shame and just plain STUPIDITY as a result. SEPERATION of CHURCH and STATE is the best thing this nation can do to heal itself right now! Sieg Heil and Amen.
Reply to this comment
by cozzicon May 12, 2007 1:05 PM PDT
I see things like this:

Human intimate relations are something that everyone *needs*. Very few people abstain and many of those who claim to- don't.

It's best to give people all the facts, and the biblical "facts" need to come from a church and not the government. People should be at liberty to make their own decisions without being manipulated by selective omissions from government programs designed to usurp the separation of church and state.

As far as the whole prostitution thing goes... for Pete's sake... legalize it. Who cares? Whatever two people consent to in private is ok with me.
Reply to this comment
by roger3815 May 12, 2007 1:09 PM PDT
Yet another reason to ban religion.
Reply to this comment
by cozzicon May 12, 2007 1:14 PM PDT
This is so sad it's funny.

Abstinence should be in the curriculum along with modern protection methods. Information from the government shouldn't omit information because of the religious bias of anyone. This is information that saves lives. And for those who do not/or cannot abstain dispensing information in a biased manner is discrimination.

As far as prostitution goes... for Pete's sake let's just legalize it. We waste too much time in this country arguing about how many angels fit on a pinhead. Can we move on now?

It's always been fairly interesting to me that I can legally get a massage from a licensed therapist- as long as they don't touch me "there".

What two people do in private in a consensual manner doesn't seem to me to be something we should be legislating.
Reply to this comment
by soldat44 May 12, 2007 2:55 PM PDT
Yet another reason to ban religion.
Posted by roger3815 at 01:09 PM : May 12, 2007

Nobody's forcing you to go to church. Why do you even care to comment.It doesn't affect you.
Reply to this comment
by soldat44 May 12, 2007 2:59 PM PDT
Yet another reason to ban religion.
Posted by roger3815 at 01:09 PM : May 12, 2007

Nobody's forcing you to go to church. Why do you even care to comment.It doesn't affect you.
Reply to this comment
by soldat44 May 12, 2007 3:02 PM PDT
Yet another reason to ban religion.
Posted by roger3815 at 01:09 PM : May 12, 2007

Nobody's forcing you to go to church. Why do you even care to comment.It doesn't affect you.
Reply to this comment
by soldat44 May 12, 2007 3:04 PM PDT
Yet another reason to ban religion.
Posted by roger3815 at 01:09 PM : May 12, 2007

Nobody's forcing you to go to church. Why do you even care to comment.It doesn't affect you.
Reply to this comment
by soldat44 May 12, 2007 3:45 PM PDT
Yet another reason to ban religion.
Posted by roger3815 at 01:09 PM : May 12, 2007

Nobody's forcing you to go to church. Why do you even care to comment.It doesn't affect you.
Reply to this comment
by soldat44 May 12, 2007 4:29 PM PDT
Yet another reason to ban religion.
Posted by roger3815 at 01:09 PM : May 12, 2007

Nobody's forcing you to go to church. Why do you even care to comment.It doesn't affect you.
Reply to this comment
by kprom828 May 12, 2007 8:22 PM PDT
Abstinence should still be taught in school's today, along with "safe" ***. One does not have to be religious to abstain, especially in high school where most teenagers are not ready for the responsibilities that come with an unwanted pregnancy.

Condoms and other birth control methods are not 100% effective. There is only one sure way to avoid getting pregnant, absitence. That is a scientific fact. Also it's really difficult to get a STD if one abstains.

Teenagers need to know that they have a choice, that they do not have to give into peer pressure. They need to know that their choices do come with consequences, be they good or bad.

I believe that parents should be the ones talking to their kids, and they need to start a lot sooner than they think. Unfortunately a lot of parents have dropped the ball on this one, so it's up to schools to fill in the gap.
Reply to this comment
by ubrew12 May 12, 2007 11:10 PM PDT
Christian conservatives never met a scientific discipline they didn't want to ignore and go with their divine inspiration instead: biology (evolution), climatology (global warming), counter-terrorism (Iraq Wars effect on the Islamic terror threat), *** education (abstinence). Put 'em all together and these people are costing society ALOT. Folks, we get the fact that you love God. But ignoring the advice of people WHOSE BUSINESS IT IS to scientifically study certain disciplines is wrongheaded and increasingly expensive to the rest of us.

Find another way to feel powerful about your conversion to Christ.
Reply to this comment
by scorp79 May 12, 2007 11:29 PM PDT
You know.. the start of this article says the american people were ahead of congress on the war, and the farse of abstinance. Human nature dictates that teens will engage in sexual behavior with or without *** education, and with or without religious morals. Its documented in study after study.

Christianity teaches us that we should turn the other cheek and the leaders use a "holier than thou" approach to preaching to the masses. Yet our leaders who are overwhelmingly christian will still war for frivilous and immoral purposes.

But I guess religion as a whole has its purpose. After all. Our leaders might just have told the truth and said we are taking out saddam for financial reasons rather than masking the truth with a moral lie..

Kids are ahead of adults just as the people are ahead of congress. kids won't will heed the calls of abstinance about as much as our leaders heed the teachings of christianity.. So I say.. if they are going to do it, the best we can do is educate them!
Reply to this comment
by scorp79 May 12, 2007 11:33 PM PDT
You know.. the start of this article says the american people were ahead of congress on the war, and the farse of abstinance. Human nature dictates that teens will engage in sexual behavior with or without *** education, and with or without religious morals. Its documented in study after study.

Christianity teaches us that we should turn the other cheek and the leaders use a "holier than thou" approach to preaching to the masses. Yet our leaders who are overwhelmingly christian will still war for frivilous and immoral purposes.

But I guess religion as a whole has its purpose. After all. Our leaders might just have told the truth and said we are taking out saddam for financial reasons rather than masking the truth with a moral lie..

Kids are ahead of adults just as the people are ahead of congress. kids won't will heed the calls of abstinance about as much as our leaders heed the teachings of christianity.. So I say.. if they are going to do it, the best we can do is educate them!
Reply to this comment
by nativewoman May 13, 2007 3:12 AM PDT
No one may be forcing anyone to go to church, but religious beliefs are being forced on our children with the use of our tax dollars. To the detriment of our children, I might add.

Abstinence should surely be included in any "s.e.x" education programs but not as the only option or the only subject discussed in such programs. It is an unrealistic expectation that all teenagers will remain abstinent until marriage.

Our children shouldn't have to die or become teenage parents because they may make a mistake and engage in "s.e.x.u.a.l" activity too early.

They should have all available information to be able to protect themselves.
Reply to this comment
by mcvet May 13, 2007 6:56 AM PDT
Noone is pointing a gun to your head and forcing you to believe in anything. There are other countries in the world who take part in this absurd practice, however. See radical Islam.
Posted by singinrick at 06:32 PM : May 12, 2007

No, not yet, but you clowns have tried that in the past thats for sure. NOTHING and I repeat NOTHING good has ever come out of the Christian Right. They have NEVER put forth ONE thing to promote anything beneficial in this nations history. If you look back at the history of the Religious Conservatives you find a list of the most Immoral acts ever served on people. Child Labor, Unsafe Working Conditions, Slavery, Bigotry, and hate the likes of which we all forget as time moves on. When you start down the list of things this nation stands for, those things called the Bill of rights and you look at where the "Christian Right" stood during the debate on them, you will find they opposed EVERY LAST ONE of our freedoms.... EVERY LAST ONE. Sieg Heil and Amen.
Reply to this comment
by mcvet May 13, 2007 7:01 AM PDT
Teaching ***-ed in school systems only opens up the windows of curiousity for youngsters and intices them to have pre-marital ***, unwanted pregnancies, diseases, the whole nine yards.

PARENTS should teach their kids about ***, not a CLASSROOM.
Posted by singinrick at 06:23 PM : May 12, 2007
+ report abuse

LOL Right Rick! LOL I remember those day's, grew up in them. You know the days when "Gasp" S-E-X was never mentioned outside the home. When "bad girls" just suddenly turned up PG and everyone kind snickered. What we need is MORE not LESS education. Hiding S-E-X or pretending it doesn't exist isn't going to help. Expecting people who were brought up as I was to educate kids isn't going to work either. There is no such thing as to LITTLE Knowledge. What Rick and the Religious Nazi's want is for us to do it tell our kids don't do it, make up reasons why they shouldn't do it and ignore the FACTS of life. It's stupid and we already KNOW it does NOT work. Sieg Heil and Amen.
Reply to this comment
by bwright923 May 13, 2007 8:23 AM PDT

...Teaching ***-ed in school systems only opens up the windows of curiousity for youngsters and intices them to have pre-marital ***, unwanted pregnancies, diseases, the whole nine yards...
Posted by singinrick at 06:23 PM : May 12, 2007

By the time the age that *** ed would be taught, our children/young adults are ALREADY curious about ***. They need to get proper information somewhere. Alot of them probably are here because THEIR parents didn't recieve the proper information little on have the knowledge or tools to pass it on to the kids. Kids are going to talk to each other about *** and wild stories are told like the whole "do it on white sheets" and "pull out". They need real information they can use to protect themselves.

Alot of the abstinence argument is pie in the sky ideas. If we think about preventing disease and teen pregnancy as war, "you go to war with the army you have, not the one you wish you had"
Reply to this comment
by soldat44 May 13, 2007 8:37 AM PDT
Please, please do not equate the teachings and doctrine of the Catholic Church with the Protestant Christian Fundamentalists. They have very different views on most social issues - Catholics tend to be more liberal and fundamentalists tend to be much more conservative. Obviously we could right a book here. My point being that you simply cannot lump all religions and all religious peoples together.

BTW - Happy Mother's Day and Peace be with you all.
Reply to this comment
by grumpas May 13, 2007 10:29 AM PDT
Noone is pointing a gun to your head and forcing you to believe in anything. There are other countries in the world who take part in this absurd practice, however. See radical Islam.
Posted by singinrick

Perhaps you have failed to notice singinrick but we are coming in a close second to the radical Islamic's! When we have a President who is more of a teleevangelist than he is a leader! Who takes his directions from God rather than the American people! Who is shoving his radical Christian belief's down American's throats wholesale in the form of his Christian agenda! It is really sad that most of your ilk do not see yourselves as you really are! Not much better than the Taliban who is trying to take over Afganistan again! If they were left to their dirty work, we would be a radical Christian nation! I am sure there are people like yourself who would be happy to point a gun to my head and say 'convert' or else! So come off of the high and mighty attitude and see yourself for what you really are! Little more than what you rail against!
Reply to this comment
by grumpas May 13, 2007 10:37 AM PDT
Noone is pointing a gun to your head and forcing you to believe in anything. There are other countries in the world who take part in this absurd practice, however. See radical Islam.
Posted by singinrick

Perhaps you have failed to notice singinrick but we are coming in a close second to the radical Islamic's! When we have a President who is more of a teleevangelist than he is a leader! Who takes his directions from God rather than the American people! Who is shoving his radical Christian belief's down American's throats wholesale in the form of his Christian agenda! It is really sad that most of your ilk do not see yourselves as you really are! Not much better than the Taliban who is trying to take over Afganistan again! If they were left to their dirty work, we would be a radical Christian nation! I am sure there are people like yourself who would be happy to point a gun to my head and say 'convert' or else! So come off of the high and mighty attitude and see yourself for what you really are! Little more than what you rail against!
Reply to this comment
by soldat44 May 13, 2007 12:12 PM PDT
Please, please do not equate the teachings and doctrine of the Catholic Church with the Protestant Christian Fundamentalists. They have very different views on most social issues - Catholics tend to be more liberal and fundamentalists tend to be much more conservative. Obviously we could right a book here. My point being that you simply cannot lump all religions and all religious peoples together.

BTW - Happy Mother's Day and Peace be with you all.
Reply to this comment
by soldat44 May 13, 2007 12:23 PM PDT
So come off of the high and mighty attitude and see yourself for what you really are! Little more than what you rail against!
Posted by grumpas at 10:29 AM : May 13, 2007

By what or who's moral authority do you 'come off' telling people how to think. The Grumpas Authority? It is isn't it? You believe in your own personal 'religion' and no one else is right. Correct? Don't let your Pride get the best of you. A little humility and compassion go a long, long way.
Peace be with you
Reply to this comment
by elz523 May 13, 2007 12:53 PM PDT
Right wing Christians don't want people to be educated or think for themselves, witness the evolution debate. They stand in the shoes of those who carried on the persecution of the scientists during the dark ages. Bush's mission has been to bring a new dark ages to our world. He has not succeeded, but because of him, those he has empowered will be a stronger force in the future than they were in the past.
Reply to this comment
by elz523 May 13, 2007 12:56 PM PDT
Right wing Christians don't want people to be educated or think for themselves, witness the evolution debate. They stand in the shoes of those who carried on the persecution of the scientists during the dark ages. Bush's mission has been to bring a new dark ages to our world. He has not succeeded, but because of him, those he has empowered will be a stronger force in the future than they were in the past.
Reply to this comment
by soldat44 May 13, 2007 1:56 PM PDT
'Right wing Christians don't want people to be educated or think for themselves, witness the evolution debate.'
Posted by elz523 at 12:56 PM : May 13, 2007

So Darwin wins hands-down? No discussion - no debate. Is that what you are saying? How do you know that Darwin is completely correct? Because someone told you so...isn't the right? How different is that from a religious point of view? Does science trump everything? We have not been around long enough to actually witness evolution in progress and scientifically analyze. Have we? Once again, human pride gets in the way of thinking objectively. It will be our great downfall. Please consider ALL sources of information, including religious ones. They were here along time before Darwin.

Peace be with you.
Reply to this comment
by elz523 May 13, 2007 3:21 PM PDT
soldat, God gave me a mind to go out and explore nature and to beleive what I bring to my senses. I have considered the religious views on creation. I went to a Catholic school through the 8th grade so I have a pretty solid understanding of the Christian point of view. I myself am a Christian.

What I don't agree with is the religious rights suggestion that we suspend our understanding of the evidene brought to our senses. I'm not sure what type of education you have had, but it you aren't aware of the evidence that supports evolution then I am guessing you have not explored the arguments of the scientific community. I can't countenance the ignorance that the religious right asks us to accept.
Reply to this comment
by elz523 May 13, 2007 3:24 PM PDT
soldat, God gave me a mind to go out and explore nature and to beleive what I bring to my senses. I have considered the religious views on creation. I went to a Catholic school through the 8th grade so I have a pretty solid understanding of the Christian point of view. I myself am a Christian.

What I don't agree with is the religious rights suggestion that we suspend our understanding of the evidene brought to our senses. I'm not sure what type of education you have had, but it you aren't aware of the evidence that supports evolution then I am guessing you have not explored the arguments of the scientific community. I can't countenance the ignorance that the religious right asks us to accept.
Reply to this comment
by elz523 May 13, 2007 3:30 PM PDT
What I don't agree with is the religious rights suggestion that we suspend our understanding of the evidene brought to our senses. I'm not sure what type of education you have had, but it you aren't aware of the evidence that supports evolution then I am guessing you have not explored the arguments of the scientific community. I can't countenance the ignorance that the religious right asks us to accept.
Reply to this comment
by crowepps May 13, 2007 6:58 PM PDT
These comments are interesting. This article doesn't have anything to do with 'Darwinism' or even bashing religion. It is discussing the fact that these government and religious functionaries who get paid big bucks to spend a lot of time insisting that OTHER people follow a 'moral code' don't seem to feel any impulse to stick to it themselves. Surely if they sincerely and honestly believed that it was vitally important, for instance, that prostitution be eliminated, they would stop paying money to prostitutes themselves. Their idea seems to be that prostitutes deserve to get AIDS because they are 'sinful' without considering the fact that in the countries in question, prostitution is forced on children sold by their families and the women now have no other survival options. Women do NOT deserve to die because they have had *** without being married.
Reply to this comment
by crowepps May 13, 2007 7:05 PM PDT
These comments are interesting. This article doesn't have anything to do with 'Darwinism' or even bashing religion. It is discussing the fact that these government and religious functionaries who get paid big bucks to spend a lot of time insisting that OTHER people follow a 'moral code' don't seem to feel any impulse to stick to it themselves. Surely if they sincerely and honestly believed that it was vitally important, for instance, that prostitution be eliminated, they would stop paying money to prostitutes themselves. Their idea seems to be that prostitutes deserve to get AIDS because they are 'sinful' without considering the fact that in the countries in question, prostitution is forced on children sold by their families and the women now have no other survival options. Women do NOT deserve to die because they have had *** without being married.
Reply to this comment
by usbrit-2009 May 14, 2007 9:50 AM PDT
Actually soldat44, we have been around long enough to witness evolution. The development of drug-resistant diseases is a perfect example of the survival of the fittest.
Reply to this comment
by usbrit-2009 May 14, 2007 9:59 AM PDT
Actually soldat44, we have been around long enough to witness evolution. The arrival, over the last 20 years, of drug resistant bacteria is a perfect example of the survival of the fittest in action.
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