A Secret Deal On Immigration?

Exclusive: Private Talks Between Congress And White House Auger A Bill That Some Will Call Amnesty

(CBS)  With protesters taking to the streets, and Americans looking to Washington for a solution, never before has immigration reform been tackled this way: Politicians at opposite ends of the debate collaborating in secret to devise a new comprehensive plan.

According to CBS News correspondent Sharyl Attkisson, the group, which includes Democratic Sen. Ted Kennedy and Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham, has met for hours several times a week since March — with Homeland Security chief Michael Chertoff acting as point man for the White House.

How unusual is it for Democrats, Republicans and White House Cabinet officials to be writing a bill together at the start? Sen. Graham said, "I've never done this before. I've been in the Congress now for over 12 years."

CBS News has been told the plan that could be announced next week attempts to please hardliners by spending billions to secure the border first. But all 12 million-plus illegal immigrants could stay. They'd have to register and pay fines for having entered illegally.

To become citizens, they'd go to the end of the line behind those who've already applied.

Under a new merit plan, points would be given for work skills and language: The more points, the faster they can become citizens.

And everyone — even U.S. citizens — would have to prove who they are when applying for a job.

The bottom line: An illegal immigrant here today could remain in the U.S., but would have to wait at least 13 years to become a citizen.

Negotiators agree some critics who call for mass jailings or deportations of illegals will call this compromise amnesty and oppose it, but with the House indicating it will follow the Senate's lead, it's still the last best hope for immigration reform any time soon.

"If we fail, if we cannot get this bill done, then this is it for years to come," Graham said.

That's because once this window of opportunity closes, all sides have said it'll be too close to presidential elections to tackle a subject that's such a lightning rod.

[loveusa2]

Oh yeah. Militias are not racist or terrorists? You better not say that in OKC. The KKK, Stormfront and the Minutemen not Racist? Dont tell all they4ve terrorized.

[lestb35]

No what's not being covered adequately is how neighborhoods especially small towns have been inundated over the past decade and the services are stretched thin and the system is nearly broken in some places. This is what's not being reported. So they've stopped the flow a bit the past year. So what. And you're estimte of 11million is small compared to what I've heard. The militia's are not racist. They're frustrated citizens.

[loveusa2]

The media, especially Dobbs, does not cover the issues. They show the same old tired footage from the 80s. They have these Mexican guys in striped shirts hopping over a barbed wire fence.

ICE reports the rate of people illegally crossing the border has significantly declined in the past year. It took 20 years for the 11M to accumulate to this number. American employers are inviting them here to work and giving them jobs. Most of the 11M have been here over 5 years. 40% are Visa overstays. Many of the Visa overstays are OTMs. Many come from war torn countries and these folks need sanctuary. Our current Guest Worker policies are insufficient for the extreme labor shortages we are facing. Bernanke says the 11M have positively impacted our economy and we would be in a severe recession without them. Bill Gates says we are losing jobs and contracts due to the shortage of H1b visas. Many of the MMs are violent as occured in San Diego and DC. John Tanton a known racist started most of the ANTI groups. None of this is being responsibly reported.

[lestb35]

It's surprising how we're tip-toeing around this issue. The media refuses to call it what it is (except for Lou Dobbs), the politicians make deals in the dead of night, secret bills negotiated, and corporate silence. The people are largely in the dark about this issue.

[loveusa2]

When I study the PROs and the ANTIs, I put them in several different categories. Both groups are comprised of strange bedfellows.

Of the ANTIs, the most intriguing are the recent Legal Immigrants, particularly the ones who have taken years to earn their citizenship. To me, they have the best argument, although not at same as the majority of ANTIs.

Toldyouso, you do have an interesting argument. You obviously have a different perspective than the majority of the ANTIs.

I4ve been studying this issue for about a year. I often debate on a PRO-ANTI debate website called MATT.org I4d be happy to discuss this issue at length on that website.

We have one or two legal immigrant ANTIs and they do have compelling arguments. You may know of the 11M, it is estimated that about 40% are visa overstays. Even thought the media portrays the %u201Cillegal issue%u201D as being a Hispanic jump over the fence issue, it is far more complex. The majority of the Visa overstays are other than Mexican (OTMs). We can discuss this further. I certainly would be interested in learning more about your perspective.

[loveusa2]

When I study the PROs and the ANTIs, I put them in several different categories. Both groups are comprised of strange bedfellows.

Of the ANTIs, the most intriguing are the recent Legal Immigrants, particularly the ones who have taken years to earn their citizenship. To me, they have the best argument, although not at same as the majority of ANTIs.

Toldyouso, I understand your plight. I understand your considerations for sanctuary for illegal immigrants from war torn countries. I understand the wait your relatives are experiencing.

One thing is clear, the current immigration policies and Guest Worker programs are not working and there is in fact a need for comprehensive immigration reform.

I post over at MATT.org
I would love to continue this discussion with you over on that site. It is not as cumbersome as this one and we can dialogue. If others are interested in this dialogue, come on over and we can chat.

I4ve been studying these issues for a year now and I am very interested in the recent legal immigrant perspective.

[toldyouso21]

Well, let's be fair on immigration.

Here are a few items in the books as "Immigration Law" you might not know.

1._ There will be NO special bilingual programs in the schools. No special ballots for elections and ALL government business will be conducted in our language.

2._ Foreigners will NOT have the right to vote, nor hold political office, no matter how long they are here.

4._ Foreigners will NOT be a burden to the taxpayers. NO welfare. NO health care or any other government assistance.

5._ Foreigners can invest in this country, but it must be an amount equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.

6._ Foreigners may NOT protest; NO demonstrations, NO waving a foreign flag.

7._ If you do come in this country illegally, you will be hunted down and sent straight to jail.

Harsh, you say????

The above laws happen to be the Immigration Laws of MEXICO.
Posted by nikosk1 at 04:16 PM : May 14, 2007

Worth posting again.

[toldyouso21]

Assuming one is not motivated by racist sentiments oneself....


Posted by HotInPhoenix at 04:14 PM : May 14, 2007


I think you may have hit the proverbial nail on the head. Though many will not admit it, they appear to be sympathetic to the plight on a specific demographic (hispanic) and try to cloak it as concern about all illegal immigrants or all "brown skinned people" and label everyone else a racist. The problem is, this group never, ever addresses why it is okay for the 12 to 20 million illegally here now to cut in front of the millions legally waiting in line and they also never seem to want to answer why it is okay for them to ignore or break the law (or as one poster wrote--to justify the law in the 'grand scheme of things') but not okay for the country to do it on other issues.

This is about self righteousness and pretending some are the definitive moral compass for the entire country and as such, can dictate to the rest of us when laws should obeyed and when (because they say so and due to their personal "grand scheme of things) the rest of us should ignore the laws and advocate subversion for the sake of a certain population.

[hotinphoenix]

The issue is what to do with the 12 to 20 million illegals already in this country.

Legally, it doesn't matter whether groups for or against illegal immigration are racist, no doubt elements on both sides are racist.

It doesn't matter, they all have a constitutional right to be racist. But, issues of public policy must be settled based on considerations of law and fact.

The fact is we had an amnesty, and it didn't work. It is irrational to believe that a second amnesty will achieve a better result.

Mexico and Israel, for example, deport illegal immigrants, and they don't have nearly the illegal immigrant problem that we do.

Unless one believes that Mexico and Israel consist of "racist" societies, one cannot be against deporting illegal aliens, too.

Assuming one is not motivated by racist sentiments oneself....

[toldyouso21]

"Now you, once you study the issue for 1 minute cry the same thing. Go to any ANTI site and say that. "

Like most pro illegal immigration posters--you let emotionalism and your self righteousness get in the way of actual dialogue. I have said previously that legitimate avenues to get into this country are acceptable and NOT 1 person has castigated me on that. Like another poster, you appear only to want a fight and want your way and revert to ugliness and silly remarks when it is not forthcoming.. Well...you certainly will not win over many people by being bellicose or ranting. The fact is, you still have not addressed why the people you want take priority over everyone else in the line and are afforded their own special track. From my perspective, as law breakers they should NEVER, ever be allowed citizenship under any circumstances. This is the only way to ensure we do not have 20 year cycles of double digit millions illegally coming here and waiting for their turn at the amnesty bar. As I stated before--you can be as generous as you like--but not if it depends on things that do not solely belong to you. I do see a problem with circumventing the law and with the failure to vet people. I have experienced some of these problems first hand. Perhaps this colors my view--but in the final analysis, I believe we either are a country of laws or not.

[gunnerv1]

RandalDS, I don't care, they all can go home and then come back as "LEGALS"!

[toldyouso21]

You say Sanctuary for some. That is precisely what the Catholic Church is requesting. Have you not heard of the missionaries in these devastated countries? They know what is happening in these war torn lands. Of course they are crying Sanctuary. Now you, once you study the issue for 1 minute cry the same thing. Go to any ANTI site and say that. They will hang you by your toe nails and call you an Open Border advocate. Lou Dobbs will rail you across the coals. Once you see the complexity of the issues you finally start to get it.
Posted by LoveUSA2 at 03:40 PM : May 14, 2007


There are members in my family that are from Pakistan and the islands, I assure you I "get it" in fact, since my 2nd husband's mom died waiting to get in--this is especially close to me. I still do not understand the advocacy of the present group at the expense of those waiting in line for years (she waited over 8 years before dying) The only thing I can think of is that those who ignore one group at the expense of another must have an emotional link. This is why I ask if you are Hispanic--because if you were for immigrants in general--surely you would also feel the plight of the people who are kept waiting and cannot get in due to the large and continual influx of illegals?

[loveusa2]

What boggles my mind is if anyone takes 30 minutes to study this issue, they begin to understand the complexities. Why doesn4t the media report any of this??
Study the MMs for 5 minutes and you see the connections with the other racist groups. Study Bay Buchanan and her affiliations and then know her brother Pat is a major media pundit with an ANTI bookdeal filling his pockets. Why doesn4t the media report any of this?
Instead you see the same old tired footage of illegals from some 804s movie crossing over a wire fence. Some guy in an 804s black and white striped shirt. Don4t you see the mullett for heavens sake?? It is so ridiculous. All to Pat Buchanan bugling NO AMnesty through his nose!! Deplorable!!

[hotinphoenix]

The issue is what to do with the 12 to 20 million illegal immigrants already in this country.

Arguments that suggest immigrant labor have a positive economic impact on the economy only support the idea of creating a guest-worker program. They do not justify an amnesty for those who broke and are already here.

There is no reason to give a "path to citizenship" to those who came here illegally. This will reward the law breakers and invite more illegal immigration.

The way to stop illegal immigration is to deny the law breakers their ill-gotten gains.

Any jobs should be done by guest workers can be done by those who enter the country legally, after the program is started.

As for the 20 million illegals already here, we should do what Mexico does to illegal immigrants, deport them.

[toldyouso21]

There are so many complexities to this issue. Yet, you are quick to say -- "Are you Hispanic." Get Real! Posted by LoveUSA2 at 03:36 PM : May 14, 2007

I was not quick to say anything. I have read your posts for a while and merely ASKED a question that you still have not chosen to answer. I can assure you that I do not have brown rage, though I do have my prejudices based on my own experiences. But there is no rage there and I can truthfully say that I tend to take people as they treat me--if you are kind or nice then I treat others accordingly. --I do think it interesting if what you say is true--that 20% arrested are Chinese--that this has never been reported. I also realize that many people face an inordinate amount of discrimination simply from being illegal. I mentioned the story in New Orleans where the temporary workers has been exploited. You still have not answered the question of why those in the line can be disregarded and why those who cut should get a preferential track. As for the number--you are right we do not know--but I do know the media continually reports 12 million and I do know that in 1986 the number we thought were amnestied and the number we ended up with was vastly different. But back to the question--I asked are you Hispanic because most of the illegals are said to be hispanic and most of the championing is not for all illegals but for a special sympathy to that group.

[loveusa2]

You say Sanctuary for some. That is precisely what the Catholic Church is requesting. Have you not heard of the missionaries in these devastated countries? They know what is happening in these war torn lands. Of course they are crying Sanctuary. Now you, once you study the issue for 1 minute cry the same thing. Go to any ANTI site and say that. They will hang you by your toe nails and call you an Open Border advocate. Lou Dobbs will rail you across the coals. Once you see the complexity of the issues you finally start to get it.

[randalds]

Start with John Tanton and his racist comments back in the 704s that Hispanics are uneducatable. He is the Godfather of the ANTIs. He formed F.A.I.R, NumbersUSA, ProAmericaPAC and You don4t speak for me (a phony mexican american group).
Then Chris Simcox, the head of the Minutemen. Google this headline: Minuteman Leader has Troubled Past
Then go to the San Diego MMs, the ones charged with terrorizing and brutalizing migrant camps. Google thisQ Jeff Schwilk Leader of the San Diego Minutemen reveals his Violent Nature

Next, during the May 1 marches, an MM terrorized the marchers and was arrested with a cache of weapons in his pickup truck.

I could go on and on all day with this stuff!!
Posted by LoveUSA2 at 12:39 PM : May 14, 2007

An extra bravo for exposing the racism of the Minutemen organization. There may be a few sincere people who are members, but they and others must be shown the truth, that the leaders of this organization are nothing but White Supremists of the worst kind. They are KKK without the sheets and are trying to put on a patriotic face to cover their disease.

[loveusa2]

You are also incorrect about the number. According to the Census Bureau, the best estimate is 11 %u2013 12M. No one actually knows the number, afterall, they are undocumented.

40% of the 11M are Visa Overstays. The majority of Visa Overstays are OTMs. They come from a variety of countries. Consider the Somalia example I provided in previous reference.

Additionally, those in the TX tent prisons (no bid contract by RNC Cronies) are OTMs. Remember the Cronies make $90 a head on each of their prisoners. Why do you think they arrest families and conduct these sweeps? Why do you think all of these prisons are full? Follow the Money.

I know an employee in one of these Tent Prisons. They told me 20% of the arrested are Chinese. But this is interesting: They carry $3000 in their pockets. What is interesting is the bond for anyone arrested for this is $3000. They bond themselves out immediately. Those from poverty stricken countries are stuck in these tent prisons pending their court date.

There are so many complexities to this issue. Yet, you are quick to say -- "Are you Hispanic." Get Real! All the majority of the ANTIs see is their Brown Rage.

[toldyouso21]

"Consider the land of origin of many of the 11M. Many countries, ex Guatemala are facing civil strife. Honduras and El Salvador face major devastation and health issues due to Hurricanes. What about refugee illegal immigrants from Somalia. ...."

I think any person suffering true and provable strife that makes it suicide to return to their homeland should be granted asylum. This is a legitimate way to enter the US and be allowed to stay here and I do not think many can argue with that. For those in any country that face certain death if they return, we should be and must remain a sanctuary. Having said this, those who simply face the normal rigors and hardships of their country must understand that America has millions of persons in that position already in line legally. Economic hardship, while terrible cannot mean that the group that can get here easier than anyone else should have the right to cut in line of those already there. it is about parity and fairness and yes--obeying the law. I do know quite a bit about immigration since my husband was an immigrant. But I do not know much about specifics of immigration as they pertain to each country. I have read that the waiting list out of Mexico is anywhere from 10 to 22 years. Similar timetables exist for people in other countries. What alarms me is that essentially the advocacy is for a certain group by sympathizers of that group --and little to no thought is given for the millions who already have been waiting for years.

[loveusa2]

Consider the land of origin of many of the 11M. Many countries, ex Guatemala are facing civil strife. Honduras and El Salvador face major devastation and health issues due to Hurricanes. What about refugee illegal immigrants from Somalia. (Google this headline: Detention Facility for Immigrants Criticized) Many of these refugees were brought here on temporary visas. Now that their visa dates have passed, they are considered illegal. Do you want to deport them back to the carnage and devastation?
Now ask yourself again: Do I know or have I studied the Immigration Issues?