Mexico City Politicians In Hot Holy Water

Pope Denounces Those Who Voted To Legalize Abortion

(AP)  Pope Benedict XVI landed in Brazil Wednesday on his first Latin America trip as pontiff, determined to lay down church law on abortion and answer a "thirst for God" in the region.

Arriving at Sao Paulo's international airport, Benedict greeted Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva and gave a speech in an airplane hanger before heading to a monastery where he'll stay during his five-day visit.

"I extend my greetings to all the peoples of Latin America and the Caribbean in the words of the Apostle: 'Peace to all of you who are in Christ,"' Benedict said, speaking in Portuguese.

Hundreds of faithful waiting in the cold rain for a glimpse of Benedict Wednesday seemed not to care about the major challenges the Vatican says he hopes to confront during his visit, such as the church's declining influence in Brazil, the rise of evangelicism, or his inflight comments about politicians who legalized abortion in Mexico City.

Catholic officials have been debating for some time whether politicians who approve abortion legislation as well as doctors and nurses who take part in abortions would subject themselves to automatic excommunication under church law. The pope seemed to agree with Mexico City's bishops who declared that the city's pro-abortion lawmakers had excommunicated themselves.

"It's nothing new, it's normal, it wasn't arbitrary. It is what is foreseen by the church's doctrine," Benedict told reporters aboard a plane to Brazil in his first full-fledged news conference since becoming pontiff in 2005.

Benedict's spokesman, the Rev. Federico Lombardi, later said he wasn't aware that the pope was setting down a new policy.

In a statement approved by the pope, Lombardi said the pope did not intend to formally excommunicate anyone — a separate and rare process under church law. "Since excommunication hasn't been declared by the Mexican bishops, the pope has no intention himself of declaring it," said Lombardi, who was on board the plane.

But Lombardi said politicians who vote in favor of abortion should not receive the sacrament of Holy Communion. "Legislative action in favor of abortion is incompatible with participation in the Eucharist. ... Politicians exclude themselves from Communion,"

Pressed further by journalists if the lawmakers were excommunicated, Lombardi reiterated: "No, they exclude themselves from Communion."

Excommunication is the severest penalty the Roman Catholic Church can impose on its members. When someone is excommunicated "his status before the church is that of a stranger," the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia says. In practical terms, that means the excommunicated person is forbidden from receiving the sacraments and participating in public worship.

Church teaching says anyone who has an abortion is automatically excommunicated. "Being a conspiring or necessary accomplice" to an abortion also means excommunication under church law.

The Mexican politicians who supported the measure shrugged off Benedict's comments Wednesday. "I'm Catholic and I'm going to continue being Catholic even if the church excommunicates me," said leftist Mexico City lawmaker Leticia Quezada. "My conscience is clean."

Before leaving Rome, Benedict said the exodus of Catholics for evangelical Protestant churches in Latin America was "our biggest worry."

But he said the spread of Protestantism shows a "thirst for God" in the region, and that he intends to lay down a strategy to answer that call when he meets with bishops from throughout Latin America in a once-a-decade meeting in the shrine city of Aparecida near Sao Paulo.

"We have to become more dynamic," he said. Evangelical churches, which the Vatican considers "sects," have attracted millions of Latin American Catholics in recent years.

The Vatican also has promised that Benedict will deliver a tough message on poverty and crime during his five-day visit to Brazil — the world's most populous Roman Catholic country.

[mygramma]

The Vatican needs to get with the program. Society evolves, but for centuries the church has refused to come to grips with that fact. And for decades it has been a struggle to find enough priests and nuns and to keep schools open. The people of Mexico City love their city and take great pride in their own progressive ideals. If Mexico City lawmakers can do what they just did with abortion and gay alliances, it's just a matter of time until the rest of south and Central American catches up. Hello Vatican... anybody awake?

[gunownerdan]

Catholicism is alive and well in Mexico, that's for sure. I just hope Mexican parents have some sense and they don't let their kids be alone with the priests.

[mygramma]

The Vatican needs to get with the program. Society evolves, but for centuries the church has refused to come to grips with that fact. And for decades it has been a struggle to find enough priests and nuns and to keep schools open. The people of Mexico City love their city and take great pride in their own progressive ideals. If Mexico City lawmakers can do what they just did with abortion and gay alliances, it's just a matter of time until the rest of south and Central American catches up. Hello Vatican... anybody awake?

[tuckerndfw]

Given the fact the Vatican attempts to interfere with sovereign governments, the Catholic church should lose tax exempt status.

It's one thing to preach the gospel, it is quite another when the dictator (pope) of a sovereign nation (Vatican City, aka Holy See) attempts to coerce politicians of other sovereign nations to concede to their demands.

[lfitts1]

This pope will insure that the church and the vatican become completely superfluous--the major problem in the third world is over population and population control--if you you practice 'vatican roulette' and then have 8 children--it is harder to feed and clothe, much less educate them. If you practice birth control--the problems become easier to manage--mother theresa would have done better to hand out condoms than wash the feet of the poor!!!

We in the US should be less smug however, our 'right to choose' is bein eroded by the 'christian right' !!!

[lfitts1]

This pope will insure that the church and the vatican become completely superfluous--the major problem in the third world is over population and population control--if you you practice 'vatican roulette' and then have 8 children--it is harder to feed and clothe, much less educate them. If you practice birth control--the problems become easier to manage--mother theresa would have done better to hand out condoms than wash the feet of the poor!!!

We in the US should be less smug however, our 'right to choose' is bein eroded by the 'christian right' !!!

[lfitts1]

This pope will insure that the church and the vatican become completely superfluous--the major problem in the third world is over population and population control--if you you practice 'vatican roulette' and then have 8 children--it is harder to feed and clothe, much less educate them. If you practice birth control--the problems become easier to manage--mother theresa would have done better to hand out condoms than wash the feet of the poor!!!

We in the US should be less smug however, our 'right to choose' is bein eroded by the 'christian right' !!!

[lfitts1]

This pope will insure that the church and the vatican become completely superfluous--the major problem in the third world is over population and population control--if you you practice 'vatican roulette' and then have 8 children--it is harder to feed and clothe, much less educate them. If you practice birth control--the problems become easier to manage--mother theresa would have done better to hand out condoms than wash the feet of the poor!!!

We in the US should be less smug however, our 'right to choose' is bein eroded by the 'christian right' !!!

[lfitts1]

This pope will insure that the church and the vatican become completely superfluous--the major problem in the third world is over population and population control--if you you practice 'vatican roulette' and then have 8 children--it is harder to feed and clothe, much less educate them. If you practice birth control--the problems become easier to manage--mother theresa would have done better to hand out condoms than wash the feet of the poor!!!

We in the US should be less smug however, our 'right to choose' is bein eroded by the 'christian right' !!!

[lfitts1]

This pope will insure that the church and the vatican become completely superfluous--the major problem in the third world is over population and population control--if you you practice 'vatican roulette' and then have 8 children--it is harder to feed and clothe, much less educate them. If you practice birth control--the problems become easier to manage--mother theresa would have done better to hand out condoms than wash the feet of the poor!!!

We in the US should be less smug however, our 'right to choose' is bein eroded by the 'christian right' !!!

[nolalou]

I bet the church has no such 'automatic excommunication' for politicians who vote for or otherwise support the death penalty!

[afmca]

I applaud the Mexican politicans that realized that abortion will always be available; but safe ones don't have to be. They have now made the procedure safe and the women of Mexico should rejoice. This does not force one to get an abortion - it just makes it more probable that she will survive it. That is the logic missing in much of the US. All Roe v Wade did was give to the lower and middle class the same right to a safe medical procedure that the rich and connected had. Now if some states in the US ban the medical procedure, the rich folk will just take care of it when the go on vacation to Cancun.

[afmca]

I applaud the Mexican politicans that realized that abortion will always be available; but safe ones don't have to be. They have now made the procedure safe and the women of Mexico should rejoice. This does not force one to get an abortion - it just makes it more probable that she will survive it. That is the logic missing in much of the US. All Roe v Wade did was give to the lower and middle class the same right to a safe medical procedure that the rich and connected had. Now if some states in the US ban the medical procedure, the rich folk will just take care of it when the go on vacation to Cancun.

[clevercandi]

Religion is MAN's concept, not GOD's.

[ixoye_02]

The American catholics should break from Rome. If this pope is willing to wield excommunication to politicians who support abortion rights and not say anything public about those priests who abused children while bishops silently were complicit, then I say that the pope is seriously deluded about truth and the concept of forgiveness and counsel before punishment. It really saddens me because the church has lost it's focus and doesn't provide real leadership.

[ixoye_02]

The American catholics should break from Rome. If this pope is willing to wield excommunication to politicians who support abortion rights and not say anything public about those priests who abused children while bishops silently were complicit, then I say that the pope is seriously deluded about truth and the concept of forgiveness and counsel before punishment. It really saddens me because the church has lost it's focus and doesn't provide real leadership.

[afmca]

I applaud the Mexican politicans that realized that abortion will always be available; but safe ones don't have to be. They have now made the procedure safe and the women of Mexico should rejoice. This does not force one to get an abortion - it just makes it more probable that she will survive it. That is the logic missing in much of the US. All Roe v Wade did was give to the lower and middle class the same right to a safe medical procedure that the rich and connected had. Now if some states in the US ban the medical procedure, the rich folk will just take care of it when the go on vacation to Cancun.

[jairod]

This is not politics, this is religion. Quit thinking in temporal terms and think in terms of the everlasting. The church erred regarding the pedophiles among its ranks, never mind all the other religious and non-religious organizations frought with pedophiles. But, to think that you can advance your political agenda by attacking any religious organization is pure folly. Speak in terms of what they understand and in terms of what is important to them (and, please don't start on the money, etc). If you have a point to make, they will listen if you speak their language. For example: Jesus says that "it would be better to have a millstone around your neck and thrown into the sea than scandalize one of these little ones." How do the offending priests and bishops respond to that warning? As for abortion: how do you counter: Thou shalt not kill?

[rushman71]

I am a Christian conservative, born and raise Catholic, and still oppose abortion, but not 100%. I do not think that it would be fair for the woman to bare a child when she was raped or dying of some disease or sickness. Also I do support the use of condoms, not only for the protection from getting the woman pregnant, but also to help lessen the chance of exchanging STD. Disregarding rape or sickness, do I think that it is fair for a woman to have an abortion, she should have thought about that before she got under the sheets.

[rushman71]

I am a Christian conservative, born and raise Catholic, and still oppose abortion, but not 100%. I do not think that it would be fair for the woman to bare a child when she was raped or dying of some disease or sickness. Also I do support the use of condoms, not only for the protection from getting the woman pregnant, but also to help lessen the chance of exchanging STD. Disregarding rape or sickness, do I think that it is fair for a woman to have an abortion, she should have thought about that before she got under the sheets.

[afmca]

To jairod - "thou shall not kill" - killing is never ending; it is the one thing mankind works hard at and is always improving at. Church (especially Catholic church) sponsored killing has been going on since the beginning of the church. They have never had issues killing the infidel or their idea of the infidel. Look at the crusades and the slaughter sanctioned by the church; the Inquisition; the church standing by during the Nazi extermination of the Jews; and how many Catholoc missionaries have destroyed entire civilizations in the name of their God. Their answer centuries later, "I'm Sorry." Even if you see this as killing it is on such a small scale for a church with such a past. Abortion is whether you believe it is a life or the possibility or potential of life. Although the need to end the potential is sad and difficult, I leave that decision to the woman and her doctor.

[prolegomena]

I find this comment intriguing:

"This does not force one to get an abortion - it just makes it more probable that she will survive it."

I wonder what must come unhinged in the logic process of a person, who seeks to protect the life of one person who is actively killing another innocent person.

There is nothing safe or natural about intentionally killing a child in utero, and the fact that doing so is dangerous to the mother should provide a clue about the moral character of this activity. The Roman Church has taken an unequivocal stand on the value of human life, based in the imago dei and Holy Writ. I think it telling that secular humanists can come up with no comparable moral ethic for the dignity and preservation of man, but rather bring to the world stage the revolutionaries who made the 20th century the bloodiest in world history.

[ixoye_02]

Jairod, this is certainly a political question because secular law applies to religious and non-religious people. I am personally opposed to abortion and would try to counsel someone from having an abortion. BUT the choice is still up to the woman. If the woman decides to have the abortion, that doesn't make me complicit to her decision. So, to suggest that politicians who want to make abortion available and safe for women who decide to have them should be excommunicated is outrageous. It seems as though church leaders want to influence secular law by threatening politicians rather than reaching out to the general public. God gave each person free will to decide for himself what is right and what is wrong. Secular law sets boundaries for acceptable and non-acceptable behavior. This is something that is decided by society not the clergy.

[afmca]

Of course this is political - you don't think the inner workings of the Catholic church is all about politics. Popes don't become Popes just by their piousness; they have played hardball politics to get there. No politics and they are still some lowly parish priest in Yonkers. The societal sway that Catholicism held in Ireland and in many Hispanic nations was cemented through politics. The Catholic church is deathly afraid that if they start to lose control over the politicians they will lose the people and thus their revenue stream .. souls are secondary

[afmca]

You obviously did not live in the pre-Rowe era as I did. I distinctly remember deaths and/or maiming of young, scared women at the hands of back alley butchers or home chemical remedies. This is one of the reasons Rowe was looked upon favorably by many. Rowe made the procedure relatively safe - if Rowe gets overturned tomorrow the rich go to Europe and/or Mexico and the poor return to the back alley butcher and home remedies. You%u2019re naive to think differently.

[parsifly]

Too bad the poop wasn't aborted himself.

[parsifly]

Too bad the poop wasn't aborted himself.

[parsifly]

Too bad the poop wasn't aborted himself.

[parsifly]

Too bad the poop wasn't aborted himself.

[vet999999]

This is not a legal or political issue; this is an issue of morality and cannot be regulated, monitored or enforced by Federal Governments. The only ones that prosper from this entire debate are lawyers. I am opposed to abortion as a means of birth control or *** selection but there are not enough wherefores and thereby%u2019s in the English language to structure a law for 350 million such that an a very difficult decision not made more difficult. All that will happen is the clinics will go underground and become more dangerous. The pope needs to go back to what his job is and that is tending his flock and stay out of government.

[gunownerdan]

This Catholic said it best........

"To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin."
Cardinal Bellarmine (during the trial of Galileo)

[omded]

1. It's all about filling the pews, building the armies, and glutting the labor market. Maximize that Catholic population, and you'll always be able to find someone to sew shirts, work fields, or attack your enemies for 25 cents an hour.

2. How many of those unborn children would, if born, be sent marching off to their death in a war?

3. Why is it that this "Caring, Loving, Vicar of Christ", and so many of his non-catholic counterparts care so much about the unborn, but don't give a heck about them after they leave their mother's womb? While they're in their mother's tummy, they're their mother's problem. Once they're born, everyone is able to pitch in and help. So, once they're born, they forget all about them, preferring to "dedicate their lives" to saving those who are not yet born.

4. Perhaps the saddest thing here is how these people claim to be such glowing examples of what it means to love. They do not know love, and they do not know God.

[randalds]

But Lombardi said politicians who vote in favor of abortion should not receive the sacrament of Holy Communion. "Legislative action in favor of abortion is incompatible with participation in the Eucharist. ... Politicians exclude themselves from Communion,"

This goes directly against Catholic teachings! Anyone, absolutely anyone that shows up for Communion gets communion. Even if the Priest giving the communion KNOWS that the person looking to receive it is say divorced, is cheating on his or her spouse or marches for abortion rights, he can NOT refuse communion to ANYONE who comes to Mass for it. He is not allowed to refuse it, except if that person has been ex-communicated and even then I've never heard of a Priest who would refuse. The goal of the Priests is to save souls, not to judge who deserves to have their souls saved. My old Priest, Father O'Mera, once told me that if Satan himself knelt down and asked to receive, he would give it to him.

[gla1946]

The Pope is Christ's Represenative on Earth.Hate at your own risk.

[vet999999]

You forgot about all the catholic priest child molesters, and the infrastructure in the church that sheltered them for centuries. The pope is probably in that bunch also. What a hypocrite.

[vet999999]

You forgot about all the catholic priest child molesters, and the infrastructure in the church that sheltered them. The pope is probably in that bunch also. What a hypocrite, dont do as i do, do as I say.

[grazinggoat]

The goal of the Priests is to save souls, not to judge who deserves to have their souls saved. My old Priest, Father O'Mera, once told me that if Satan himself knelt down and asked to receive, he would give it to him.
Posted by RandalDS

-You are such a good believer. SickRick will like ya now...

[grazinggoat]

This Catholic said it best........

"To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin."
Cardinal Bellarmine (during the trial of Galileo)
Posted by GunOwnerDan at 05:30 PM : May 09, 2007

-For once we agree Dan! he was sooooo right. Actually this bellarmine was absolutely and ignorantly right. LOL.

[randalds]

The goal of the Priests is to save souls, not to judge who deserves to have their souls saved. My old Priest, Father O'Mera, once told me that if Satan himself knelt down and asked to receive, he would give it to him.
Posted by RandalDS

-You are such a good believer. SickRick will like ya now...
Posted by grazinggoat at 10:14 PM : May 09, 2007

Now that's scary! Hell I'd go back to praying if I thought it'd keep ricky away! lol!

I admit it, like many many many atheists I know I was raised Catholic. (sigh) The rules sort of stick with you even after you realize the main players aren't real.

[cbs_oliver]

The Pope has a moral problem. He, like most others who seek to exploit the issue of abortion, neglects to condemn the mothers who are - in the vast majority of cases -the instigators of abortions.

Most folks who say they oppose abortion don't suggest making the killing of a fetus murder. That would make the mother guilty of conspiracy to commit murder.

Abortion is a topic the Pope is eager to talk about - at least when the discussion is limited to doctors and lawyers - but not mothers. War on the other hand - an organized program of very late term abortions - is not something the Pope speaks forcefully about. The Pope will not suggest that a leader will excommunicate himself by going to war. He might whisper a pro forma comdenation but the reality id that the Church supports wars when it perceives them to be waged by the right folks - definitely by folks on the right.

Many people believe that the Pope excommunicated himself a long time ago and needs to redeem himself before he gives instruction to others.

[pensacola8-2009]

The Pope is not living in the real world. Most Latin world leaders mirror the Pope's oppresive style of leadership and the world sees what it gets in return - a mass of impoverished people starving for opportunity, education and liberation from their oppressors. It sickens me to the core!