U.S. Muslims Strive For Sectarian Peace

In Hopes Of Strengthening Sunni-Shiite Ties, U.S. Muslim Leaders Launch "Intra-Faith Code Of Honor"

(AP)  Muslim leaders are trying to strengthen Sunni-Shiite ties in the United States, hoping to head off conflicts between the faith's two major sects and get American Muslims to focus on common problems.

With sectarian divisions fueling violence in Iraq, Sunnis and Shiites in the U.S. are increasingly wary of a spillover effect. In one public example, leaders from both traditions have launched "Intra-faith Code of Honor" campaigns in three cities with major Muslim populations.

So far, 20 Sunni and Shiite leaders in Southern California have signed the first such code. The document denounces "takfir" — the labeling of another Muslim as a nonbeliever — forbids hateful speech about revered figures and urges debates at the scholarly level, not the street level.

Similar agreements are expected to be completed this month in Detroit and Washington, D.C.

"As technology has made information from across the globe and information from historical conflicts more available, people have been pondering their self-identity," said Salam Al-Marayati, executive director of the Los Angeles-based Muslim Public Affairs Council, which is helping organize the effort. "That has brought a requirement to appreciate the nuances, but it's also brought challenges."

Those include questions over how prayer is conducted, said Dr. Maher Hathout, spokesman for the Islamic Center of Southern California, which eschews Sunni or Shiite labels. The honor code urges congregations to follow worship traditions of whichever groups is in the majority locally, an issue that has arisen over the Shiite custom of combining some of Islam's five daily prayers, Hathout said.

Another concern is keeping virulently sectarian literature from the Middle East out of American mosques.

"As much as we can make clear the Muslim-American identity is not a natural extension of the Middle East, the better off we'll be," he said.

Other steps under discussion include gathering national Sunni and Shiite leaders, workshops at mosques and political analysis of Middle East trends "so people are not caught off guard," Al-Marayati said.

Although no reliable data exists, it is presumed America's estimated 2 million to 6 million Muslims are 85 percent to 90 percent Sunni and 10 percent to 15 percent Shiite, reflecting the global breakdown. Conflicts have been few, scholars say, in part because this country's Muslim population is relatively small. Plus, immigrant U.S. Muslims tend to be prosperous and are melding into society instead of clustering in poorer neighborhoods, which has caused conflict in Europe.

Theological divisions between Sunnis and Shiites are less pronounced than, say, those separating Roman Catholics and Protestants, Muslim scholars emphasize. The main dividing line: a disagreement over succession that began after the death of the Prophet Muhammad.

In the Detroit area — home to the nation's largest concentration of Muslims — Shiites blamed Sunnis for vandalism at Shiite-affiliated mosques and businesses after the execution of Saddam Hussein, a Sunni who repressed the Shiite majority in Iraq.

Shiite Imam Hassan Qazwini of the Islamic Center of America in Dearborn, Mich., the largest mosque in North America, said sectarian tensions are not a serious problem, and most Sunnis and Shiites get along.

At the same time, intra-faith efforts can address the graver problem of anti-Muslim sentiment, he said. Bias incidents against Muslims including harassment, violence and discrimination rose nearly one-third last year to a 12-year high, according to the Council on American-Islamic Relations.

"Shiites and Sunnis need to work together so we can face our joint challenges," Qazwini said.

Ihsan Bagby, an associate professor of Islamic studies at the University of Kentucky, said challenges posed by the terrorist attacks, the first Gulf War and the ongoing war in Iraq have united Sunni and Shiites in the United States more than divided them.

"There's never really been a very strong ecumenical movement in Islamic history that has really tried to forge understanding," he said. "Maybe this is the beginning of it."

[rushman71]

It is hard to understand why so many cultures in our past with all of these different religions teaching people that if you don't turn to our religion and the way we live, then you will die. I was born and raised Catholic (now attend a non-Denominational church) and see that in the Christian society around the world that Catholics, Protestants, Baptists, and other Christians are now accepting each others difference in religion. Why can't the Sunnies and Shiites? Just because the faith in the teachings of Mohammed are a little different out of the two different sects, is it truly right to go out and kill each other? Is that what God (Allah) truly wants?
I'm not trying to start a fight. I would like other person's opinion, though.

[afmca]

I applaud the Muslim leaders for their efforts. I do believe many non-Muslim Americans find it hard to comprehend the seeming hatred that the two groups show for one another in the Middle East. I wonder if that is more because of how political entities manipulate religion than the actual religious people. We have seen the same manipulations in American with the Republicans seeming to assist religious bigotry and intolerance for political gain. I would guess Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia politicians would do the same to Muslims if it assisted them in getting rich and retaining power. Americans can also help defeat the voices of unreason by treating American Muslims with the same respect and tolerance we grant to people of other religions.

[bellal-2009]

When have Muslims ever lived in peace. We should scrutinize very carefully any large Muslim group in this country. They don't appear to have any allegiance to the United States. They've just plopped down here to enjoy our freedoms not to contribute.

[infidel_us]

Why can't the Sunnies and Shiites?
Posted by rushman71 at 12:15 PM : May 07, 2007

Islam is VERY different. Based on my non scholarly study of islam, I am of the opinion that it is more of a 'cult' than a religion. It's entire basis or foundation is violence. It was born of violence. The precept of 'convert of die' has never been recended and is still in force today.

[shingles1]

rushman71 - some would say that because Christianity is a good 700 years older than Islam it has already gone through some of the stages that the muslim world is going through right now. We forget (some of us at least) that Protestants and Catholics were killing each other for hundreds of years, while at the same time BOTH groups were converting or killing unbelievers. (I can just hear the self-righteous Christians among us shout out "but that's different!") Islam is not inherently violent. However, like with many religions, a bunch of dirtbags have interpreted it in such a way as to condone violence.

[farmerbb]

I have seen comments from some muslims around the world that "infidels" or unbelievers should be killed, according to certain muslim teachings. If NOT true, this should be clarified by eminent muslim scholars, again around the world. It should be focussed especially at those muslims who may have thought their belief was accurate, for lack of a better word. If it IS true, then we in western societies need to have public discussions about how to deal with this. One can imagine all sorts of drastic measures that would be proposed.

It would appear the muslim faith/community needs to go through some sort of Reformation perhaps only slightly similar to the one that christian churches went through, several hundred years ago. Western religions no longer preach death to those from a different christian faith, or no faith at all. I can't even think of christian religions preaching death to non-christians or even atheists, although missionary activity is arguably interference. Maybe Jerry Falwell and people of that type may qualify - they are not representative of society at large, one hopes.

[sevenveils]

That's nice, a document denounces "takfir" in the US. That's real special. I think the crime of murder puts a negative slant on takfir.

Now what about all the Infidels these Islamic types are living with and enjoying the freedoms fought for and earned by them? Going to make a peace pact there too?

[lars008-2009]

NONE OF US IS FREE UNLESS ALL ARE FREE!!!

WHY DO MUSLIM COUNTRIES NOT GRANT EQUAL RIGHTS TO NON MUSLIMS???

FASCIST NAZI ISLAM SAYS UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATES ISLAM LAW...

Universal Declaration of Human Rights
http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

For example, in 1981, the Iranian representative to the United Nations, Said Rajaie-Khorassani, articulated the position of his country regarding the Universal Declaration of Human Rights by saying that the UDHR was "a secular understanding of the Judeo-Christian tradition", which could not be implemented by Muslims without trespassing the Islamic law.

http://www.un.org/terrorism/
http://www.un.org/terrorism/strategy-counter-terrorism.html
http://www.un.org/

NAZI IDEOLOGY!!!
Iran: Law would require non-muslim insignia
http://warrenreports.tpmcafe.com/node/29995

[sevenveils]

"Islam is not inherently violent." - shingles1

Islam was born and bread in eight years of violence. One thing Muslims do not want to accept is Mohamed, his wife and his uncle were jews.

[lars008-2009]

the founder of the satanic cult of peace....

the religion of peace... hahahahaha

the war muhammad started rages on 1400 years later...
623 - Battle of Waddan
623 - Battle of Safwan
623 - Battle of Dul-'Ashir
624 - Muhammad and converts begin raids on caravans to fund the movement.
624 - Zakat becomes mandatory
624 - Battle of Badr
624 - Battle of Bani Salim
624 - Battle of Eid-ul-Fitr and Zakat-ul-Fitr
624 - Battle of Bani Qainuqa'
624 - Battle of Sawiq
624 - Battle of Ghatfan
624 - Battle of Bahran
625 - Battle of Uhud. 70 Muslims are killed.
625 - Battle of Humra-ul-Asad
625 - Battle of Banu Nudair
625 - Battle of Dhatur-Riqa
626 - Battle of Badru-Ukhra
626 - Battle of Dumatul-Jandal
626 - Battle of Banu Mustalaq Nikah
627 - Battle of the Trench
627 - Battle of Ahzab
627 - Battle of Bani Quraiza
627 - Battle of Bani Lahyan
627 - Battle of Ghaiba
627 - Battle of Khaibar
628 - Muhammad signs treaty with Quraish.
630 - Muhammad conquers Mecca.
630 - Battle of Hunsin.
630 - Battle of Tabuk
632 - Muhammad dies.
http://www.carm.org/islam/islam_chronology.htm

[shingles1]

I was wondering when you'd show up, lars008.

You might want to know though that that supposed Iranian Law that "would require non-muslim insignia" turned out to be a complete fabrication. It was completely debunked last year. The newspaper that first reported it, Canada's National Post, RETRACTED their report as did the guy who WROTE the article.

Ooops.

Not only that, but a Jewish member of the Iranian parliament is quoted in the retraction...a Jewish member of the Iranian parliament you say? That's right. I guess he wasn't given the "convert or die" choice.

But being proved wrong never stopped a wingnut from repeating false information over and over again.

I expect that a month from now you'll repeat this same discredited information again.

[shingles1]

Look lars008, I can cut and paste too!:


* 2.1 First Crusade 1095%u20131099
o 2.1.1 Crusade of 1101
* 2.2 Second Crusade 1145%u20131149
* 2.3 Third Crusade 1189%u20131192
* 2.4 Fourth Crusade 1201%u20131204
* 2.5 Albigensian Crusade
* 2.6 Children's Crusade
* 2.7 Fifth Crusade 1217%u20131221
* 2.8 Sixth Crusade 1228%u20131229
* 2.9 Seventh Crusade 1248%u20131254
* 2.10 Eighth Crusade 1270
* 2.11 Ninth Crusade 1271%u20131272
* 2.12 Northern Crusades (Baltic and Germany)
* 2.13 Other crusades
o 2.13.1 Crusade against the Tartars
o 2.13.2 Crusades in the Balkans
o 2.13.3 Aragonese Crusade
o 2.13.4 Alexandrian Crusade
o 2.13.5 Hussite Crusade
o 2.13.6 Swedish Crusades

[rohink-2009]

Posted by bellaL


You said it.

[lars008-2009]

* 2.1 First Crusade 1095%u20131099
Posted by shingles1 at 02:49 PM : May 07, 2007

wrong.... the first crusade was fascist nazi islams....

the war that fascist nazi Islamic muslims started rages on 1400 years later...

The Truth about Islamic Crusades and Imperialism

Historical facts say that Islam has been imperialistic%u2014and would still like to be, if only for religious reasons. Many Muslim clerics, scholars, and activists, for example, would like to impose Islamic law around the world. Historical facts say that Islam, including Muhammad, launched their own Crusades against Christianity long before the European Crusades.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2005/11/the_truth_about_islamic_crusad.html
http://www.americanthinker.com/2004/08/the_muslim_crusades.html

[lars008-2009]

what do you call an organization that:

kills you if you don't join it...
kills you if you leave it...
kills you if you don't do what they tell you to do...
kills anybody that is not a member of it...
still practices pagan rituals...
allows the r a p e of babies and animals...

a. satanic cult???
b. islam???
all the above???

[lars008-2009]

THIS IRANIAN HAS A GOOD IDEA!!!

Ali Sina, an ex-Muslim from Iran. He is the creator of Faithfreedom.org.

Yet I know that by eradicating Islam we can save the world from the dangers of a catastrophe that otherwise is looming over our heads and could cause more disaster than the 1st and 2nd World Wars combined. Eradication of Islam means restoring peace among humanity and civility, democracy and prosperity in the Muslim world.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/why_i_left_islam.htm

[lars008-2009]

IT IS TIME TO DEFEAT FASCIST NAZI ISLAM ONCE AND FOR ALL%u2026

In 1786, Thomas Jefferson, then U.S. ambassador to France, and John Adams, then American Ambassador to Britain, met in London with Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja, the Dey%u2019s ambassador to Britain, in an attempt to negotiate a peace treaty based on Congress%u2019 vote of funding. To Congress, these two future presidents later reported the reasons for the Muslims%u2019 hostility towards America, a nation with which they had no previous contacts.

%u2026that it was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman (Muslim) who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise.

Sound familiar?

Thomas Jefferson and James Madison defeated the fascist nazi muslims 200 years ago
And again 100 years ago with Theodore Roosevelt
Tunisia in 1881 by France and Libya in 1911 by Italy. By then most of the Islamic world was under Christian domination. With the Ottoman Empire defeated in WW1, secularist Turkish rebels in 1923 overthrew the last Islamic Caliphate,
http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?6bdec278-6a71-4436-bc4d-29d1c54b0ad7

[tomflint69]

We need to throw all people into trashbins who talk about any religion. All religions must be altogether banned and those who talk a lot without shaving their dumb *** ***** should be thrown first.

[shingles1]

"Islam cannot be dealt with. There is no resoning with a religion that condones violence to accomplish it's goals anyway it can. They are barbarians the quicker we deal with them the better. Take them out now. BaaaBoom. NEVER will we be able to live peacefully with or next to them. You'll all figure this out when they nuke Israel. Then what? Take those animals out now.
Posted by superchez1"

Wouldn't killing 1.4 BILLION people (the number of muslims in the world) be the very definition of barbarism?

[cantshutup]

say what you will about islam....it is evil, but don't say that satanists r a p e babies and animals...satanists do not harm children or animals...look it up, or ask a satanist...a satanist will not harm you unless you've done harm to a satanist first...satan is a fairy tale, satanism is a belief system that most people know nothing about...islam is bad because it caters to ignorant morons who have worms eating their brains and making them crazy.

[lars008-2009]

Wouldn't killing 1.4 BILLION people (the number of muslims in the world) be the very definition of barbarism?
Posted by shingles1 at 04:04 PM : May 07, 2007

Wouldn't killing 5.1 BILLION people (the number of non muslims in the world) be the very definition of barbarism?


Switching Sides: Inside The Enemy Camp

But then in 2000, well before his arrest, something happened which would make Abas question everything he believed in: a fatwa, a religious edict, was issued by Osama bin Laden.

"It should be understood that killing Americans and Jews anywhere found are the highest act of worship and the highest form of good deeds in the eyes of Allah," Simon quotes bin Laden.

Abas and his fellow commanders were ordered to read the fatwa to their men and make sure they carried it out. The others obeyed, but Abas refused. It was his moment of truth. He firmly believed that jihad was to be fought only on the battlefield in defense of Islam; he had always been taught that the killing of civilians had nothing to do with holy war and that it was forbidden.

The fatwa justified killing non-Muslim civilians everywhere.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/04/60minutes/main2761108.shtml?source=RSSattr=60Minutes_2761108

[sandycat2]

I hope American Muslims keep their so-called religion peaceful and the Shia and the Sunni sides get along. We don't need their vindictiveness and violent hatred here. If they act up, kick them all out along with the illegals.

[infidel_us]

Here's one for the new SAT:

Muslims are to peace as:
a) Madonna is to chastity
b) North is to South
c) Paris Hilton is to MENSA
d) All The Above

[toolmangler-2009]

Just because the faith in the teachings of Mohammed are a little different out of the two different sects, is it truly right to go out and kill each other? Is that what God (Allah) truly wants?
Posted by rushman71 at 12:15 PM : May 07, 2007



"We didn't do this for ourselves, but for our religion (Islam)" Hurriyet newspaper quoted a suspect as saying. "Our religion is being destroyed (from within).
Posted by Krotec54

Of course it is, people that try to force 'religion' down someone elses throat with Laws and weapons ultimately hurt the 'religion' many times more than they help it. Islam will be destroyed from 'within' by its own members hatred and so will Christianity.
The time will come when 'religion' of any type will be banned from all societies in selfdefense.

The 'World Powers that be' are positioning 'Religion' (ALL Religion) to be outlawed. They are using catch-phrases like 'Phsychosis, Two-faced, Zionist, Christian, Muslim, Radicalized, Child-raping and other forms of fear inducing rhetoric to brand 'Religion' as having no redeeming values. Religion of itself is no threat to the NWO but the fact that it is an 'emotional' tool that differing factions might use to stop the spread of "Man as GOD" on this Planet is enough to make it a chief target of those who wish for "Their wills to be done" without thought of consequenses.
Posted earlier by ToolMangler

[toolmangler-2009]

We need to throw all people into trashbins who talk about any religion. All religions must be altogether banned and those who talk a lot without shaving their dumb *** ***** should be thrown first.
Posted by tomflint69 at 04:03 PM : May 07, 2007



See what I mean?

[lars008-2009]

Posted by ToolMangler at 05:10 PM : May 07, 2007

rightttttttttttt

it's been tried nancy....

guess you didn't hear about all the people stalin, mao, kim jong, pol pot, etc etc etc killed....

"Socialism is the religion people get when they lose their religion" Richard John Neuhaus

I do not fear GOD... I fear those whom claim to speak for GOD...

[toolmangler-2009]

Posted by lars008 at 05:17 PM : May 07, 2007


Where did that come from and where are you going with it?

[tomflint69]

What a beautiful mosque! I tell you an interesting thing that Islam is the most rapidly spreading religion today and we may expect that our grand children will recite Kalimah.
I would not like my butts kicked by my Muslim convert children. Insane preachers are doing their job. Preaching should be banned.
Jesus save us.

[ralan40]

Say what you will about organized religion,but it is the lack of heirarchy positions of power that have caused this religion to be taken over by the extremists. The Early Christian Church went through the same problems the muslims are facing, today. People today forget that religion created a focal point for community and many advancements of our civilization. Religion has been a part of civilization since it's begining. It mobilized people to join together in something and created the basis of what culture we have today. Yes, a lot of people have died "in the name of God" but just as many have died "in the name of a government" as well. In their eyes, they are fighting a religious war. That determination is tough, ifnot impossible to match.

[xzavierbrown]

a question for mr. singinrick, What do you think Jesus would care most

people trying to idolize him or people trying to live by his sample???

when you idolize jesus or mohammad or "ralph the cabbage", you segregate yourself by religion..and i think jesus would agree with that

[gaye5]

If this literature is in the Middle east, it shows their intentions so why would they not allow it in America, it's the same religion with the same holy books, and as the last three quarters of the quran has so much on killing the infidel, they had better keep all their holy books out of American mosques also ..
here is just some verses from their holy books, and we have to remember that the unbeliever is always the enemy, and we are NOT the innocent, only Muslims are....

Ishaq:327 %u201CAllah said, %u2018A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.%u2019%u201D

Ishaq:576 %u201CAllah and His servant overwhelmed every coward. Allah honored us and made our religion victorious. We were glorified and destroyed them all. Allah humiliated them in the worship of Satan. By what our Apostle recites from the Book and by our swift horses, I liked the punishment the infidels received. Killing them was sweeter than drink. We galloped among them panting for the spoil. With our loud-voiced army, the Apostle%u2019s squadron advanced into the fray.%u201D

Tabari IX:122 %u201CMuhammad sent Uyaynah to raid The Banu Anbar. They killed some people and took others captive. Mohammad went on hundreds of raids, this is how he lived...he took booty...

[gaye5]

And.
Qur%u2019an 8:39 %u201CFight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.%u201D

Qur%u2019an 8:39 %u201CSo fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world).%u201D

Q 9:73 Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate."

Qur%u2019an 8:12 %u201CI shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.%u201D

Qur%u2019an 8:67 %u201CIt is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughtered in the land.%u201D

Ishaq:588 %u201CWhen the Apostle descends on your land none of your people will be left when he leaves.%u201D

the article also says....heological divisions between Sunnis and Shiites are less pronounced than, say, those separating Roman Catholics and Protestants, Muslim scholars emphasize.
The big difference is that the quran says to slaughter all who will not submit in all the world for the cause of allah, and be not friends with unbelivers""", where as the Bible says 'you are not to kill' anyone, love your enemies, pray for them and love you neighbour as yourself'... big difference...
Wow, doesnt this give more power and strength to the Islam with the Sunni and Shiites coming together...

[gaye5]

While throughout history people have misused the name of God to carry out their own selfish plans, true religious belief has been the driving force for the greatest cultural achievements.
singinrick, I totally agree with you that throughout history religious people have done some terrible things, however we must not throw out the baby with the bath water... All religions except Islam teach peace, love, tolerance etc, and yes before Moses there were some terrible things done, so God gave commandments that they were NOT to murder..that they were to love even their enemies... and yes this sometimes hasn't been followed, but dont blame God for that, blame the selfishness, greed and a desire to control others.. I am sick of people blaming God. Where in the faiths of other religions (other than Islam) does it tell them to kill, kill, kill..read the writings of other religions, including the bible from Moses time, then come back to us and say that all religions should be destroyed... If we destroy these wonderful faiths of the world then by whose laws do we go by then, the government of the day????

[gaye5]

shingles1, do you know what the Crusades were for, if there had not been the crusaders we would now all look like the middle east..

Just as a few historians are hell bent on cutting the holocaust out of our history books so they try to change the reasons that the Crusaders began.
Misconceptions about the Crusades are all too common. The Crusades are generally portrayed as a series of holy wars against Islam led by power-mad popes and fought by religious fanatics.

They were not the brainchild of an ambitious pope or rapacious knights but a response to more than four centuries of conquests in which Muslims had already captured two-thirds of the old Christian world, slaughtering as they went. At some point, Christianity as a faith and a culture had to defend itself or be subsumed by Islam. The Crusades were that defense.

The Crusades were a series of wars initiated by Christians to stop the onslaught of Muslims and to win back their holy lands:
During the many battles of the Crusades there were many atrocities, both by the Christians and by the Muslims. Muslims had more opportunities to commit atrocities, and indeed they did!... but one wonders why many historians mention the Christian atricities but don't mention the atrocities and millions slaughtered by Muslims before the Crusaders even came into being!.

[gaye5]

shingles1, Mohammad skited that he chased the Jews off their land keeping some of the women and children for slaves.. and all that they possessed...
Muslim holy books are full of how Mohammad either sent or went himself on many raids and killed the people. They were not only pirates on the sea but also on land..and even today there have been 1110 pirate attacks since 1999..but the media seems to be quite on this issue, I wonder if it would mean that people would not travel by boat if they knew..
shingles1, yes Catholice and Protestants were killing each other and others, but that does not mean that they were following what the Bible says.. Surely you have read the ten commandments, and of course religious leaders can manipulate anyone when the people are illiterate..but it dosent man that it is the Bibles or Gods fault.. Just because you might have some rough sports players or coaches who dont follow the rules, does that mean that the game is bad, of course not...the rules say that it is to be fair and just, and because some dont follow those rules doesnt mean that we should all say "look at what they did and this means that all sport is bad"...

[gaye5]

xzavierbrown if people care enough about wanting to follow the example of someone, doesnt it also stand to reason that they must have some powerful liking for that person to want to live by his example???

You also said...when you idolize jesus or mohammad or "ralph the cabbage", you segregate yourself by religion..
And xzavierbrown, if you idolize different sports do you segregate yourself by sport...
If you idolize different types of politicians does that also mean that you segregate yourself by politics...hmmm
As I said below, While throughout history people have misused the name of God to carry out their own selfish plans, true religious belief has been the driving force for the greatest cultural achievements.

[shingles1]

"when you idolize jesus or mohammad or "ralph the cabbage", you segregate yourself by religion..and i think jesus would agree with that
Posted by xzavierbrown"

Are you saying that I shouldn't accept "ralph the cabbage" as my lord and personal savior?
NOW you tell me.

[shingles1]

Gaye5; my point was simply that muslims don't have a monopoly on violence.

Look at the Old Testament - which is filled to the gills with violence, look at Hindu extremists in India, etc. There are extremists in every single religion who take passages from their holy books and use them to justify any act of violence.

And it's not simply religion - look at the actions of communists or facists when they've gotten into power. It's the nature of human society that there will always be zealots or utopians who take whatever it is they believe in and twist it in a screwed up way because they are convinced that THEY AND ONLY THEY HAVE THE ANSWER.

And if people highlight every single time a muslim commits an act of violence as "proof" of the propensity of muslims towards violence - then, it's perfectly fine for me to highlight every single act of violence committed by Christians to make the same point. American jails are FILLED with Christians (since we're largely a Christian nation) and there are serial killers who are/were good upstanding Christian members of the community. I could take these facts and therefore say that ALL Christians are closet serial killers. But that would be wrong and a complete distortion of Christianity?

But that's what you're doing.

Do you even know any muslims...personally?

[rushman71]

Just because the faith in the teachings of Mohammed are a little different out of the two different sects, is it truly right to go out and kill each other? Is that what God (Allah) truly wants?
Posted by rushman71 at 12:15 PM : May 07, 2007

Posted by singinrick at 07:39 PM : May 07, 2007

This was just to question their beliefs. I am 100% Christian minded myself. I just wanted to know why they are still killing tne "infidels" AND each other.

[gaye5]

shingles1 thanks for clearing that up... and yes it seems to be the nature of the human race...
In having said that there is no where from Moses to now, nor as far as I know in any other holy books where it says anything like the verses that I have quoted from the Quran... and that was only a pinch of the quotes, of course I could be wrong as I havent read all of everything...No, as the ones that I know got out... and are in hiding, scared for their lives and have had to change their names so as they cant be found..
There have been over 7500 terrorist attacks since sep 11th.. If we talk only about what hitler etc did in the past we are asleep to the danger we are in right now, as it is no good talking about what religious people have done in the past..it is now that we have to deal with the danger of right now.
If not, then we can kiss tomorrow good by for our grandchildren,, the Quran says that they are to take the world for Allah, and slaughter all who will not submit, for allah in the whole world...these verses that I have given in before are not my words they are the words of Mohammad.

[gaye5]

shingles1. I must reframe what I said below... No I dont know any Muslims, as the ones that I know got out... and are in hiding, scared for their lives and have had to change their names so as they cant be found..
And the ones that I have come across would not talk to any of us, which has happened now on a few occaisions.. I have just remembered another lass who is Muslim and she is lovely, she is married to a non-Muslim and mixes with everyone, and breeds cats..and friends ahve said that they have come across a couple who were also lovely, but that was in a country where they were not radical at that stage..