Brit War Chief: We Underestimated Cheney

Says VP Had More Influence On Bush Than U.K. Thought; Despite Bad Planning, Defends Going To War

(CBS/AP)  Britain's defense secretary during the Iraq war says U.K. officials underestimated the influence of Vice President Dick Cheney in White House decision making, and the coalition failed to anticipate the bloody aftermath of the war, a newspaper reported Wednesday.

But Geoff Hoon, who was defense secretary in Prime Minister Tony Blair's government from 1999 until 2005, said intelligence officials had believed that Saddam Hussein was amassing weapons of mass destruction and that the allies did not lie about why they went to war.

In an interview with The Guardian newspaper, Hoon said that "we didn't plan for the right sort of aftermath."

"Maybe we were too optimistic about the idea of the streets being lined with cheering people. Although I have reconciled it in my own mind, we perhaps didn't do enough to see it through the Sunni perspective. Perhaps we should have done more to understand their position," Hoon was quoted as saying.

Hoon said the British side had not comprehended Cheney's influence in the U.S. administration.

Even when Blair and President Bush had agreed on some matter, "sometimes... the decision actually came out of a completely different place."

"And you think: what did we miss? I think we missed Cheney," Hoon was quoted as saying.

He did not cite any examples of decisions apparently reversed by Cheney.

Hoon, who is now minister for Europe in the Foreign Office, said Britain had opposed the wholesale dismissal of Iraq's army and police forces.

"We certainly argued against," Hoon was quoted as saying. "I recall having discussions with Donald Rumsfeld, but I recognized that it was one of those judgment calls. I would have called it the other way. His argument was that the Iraqi army was so heavily politicized that we couldn't be sure that we would not retain within it large elements of Saddam's people."

However, Hoon defended the decision to go to war on the basis of intelligence that believed Iraq was building up an arsenal of weapons of mass destruction — intelligence he now accepts was wrong.

"I've been present at a number of meetings where the intelligence community was fixed, and looked in the eye and asked are you absolutely sure about this? And the answer came back 'Yes, absolutely sure,"' Hoon was quoted as saying.

"I saw intelligence from the first time I came into office, in May 1999 — week in, week out — that said Saddam had weapons of mass destruction ... I have real difficulty in understanding why it was, over such a long period of time, we were told this and, moreover, why we acted upon it," he was quoted as saying.

"Whatever else I did, even if people say it was catastrophically wrong, I wouldn't agree with it, but I could live with it," he added. "But I can't live with the idea that I was telling lies, because I wasn't."

Hoon said he felt no need to apologize.

"You can say 'it did not turn out as we expected' and 'we made some bad calls,' but at the end of the day I defy anyone to go through what we went through and come to a different conclusion," he was quoted as saying.

The public, Hoon said, was not interested in perceptions in 2003 or subtle arguments over intelligence or policy.

"I think, especially when British soldiers are being killed, that the public have got to be pretty confident as to why. I think they're not any longer confident, and want us out of Iraq. That's why Tony gets the blame," Hoon said.

[kesac4650]

Yeah, but it is a lot more fun to pretend thst the bad guys took over the country, to make their buddies rich.

[crater7]

CROOKS HONOR;

Just accross the pond, the Crooks will continue to protect their own sort. The B&B boys are joined at the hip, in the murder of over 3,000 American kids, and Hundreds of thousands of Iraqi, citizens. They can spin the web any way they want, but they will ultimately bore the price.

[radiob-2009]

The public, Hoon said, was not interested in perceptions in 2003 or subtle arguments over intelligence or policy.


In other words the public after 9-11 was still in a state of shell shock, hysteria and did not question it nor did the respective government bodies question the intelligence that led us in to the war in Iraq.

[bluestardad]

Impeach bush and cheney then try them for war crimes with their cowardly Neocon buddies!

[missingamerica]

*And you think: what did we miss? I think we missed Cheney*. An unfortunately extremely common affliction. Cheney will probably have a huge impact on the next elections, too...in the form of his face on billboards across the nation that say *Are you willing to risk another one of these? Vote Democrat*.

[drinuk]

If anyone believes Hoon they are fools or members of this discredited Blair regime. Of course Cheney had the last word but it remains a fact that between them they cooked up the WMD danger and lied through their high teeth. Hoon is the man who sent British soldiers to Iraq totally under equipped, having to buy their boots, individuals borrowing ammunition from American soldiers and front lines guys having to steal body armour from nurses during the night.
Hoon is a disgrace, he turned a respected fighting force into a band of "Borrowers". Whatever members of the current British government say this week can be assesed as damage limitation prior to elections for local government to be held on Thursday this week. It is quite unbelievable that only two years ago the British people voted in favour of Blair and after serving half his term both he and his band of idiots are on the run, leaving office prior to the S H I T hitting the fan and making excuses for being responsible for the deaths of thousands. They should all HANG.

[rharrin1]

Yeah, but it is a lot more fun to pretend thst the bad guys took over the country, to make their buddies rich.
Posted by kesac4650 at 05:51 AM : May 02, 2007

You don't have to pretend on this at all not even a little bit.

[pianoman42]

There were plenty of dissenting voices about Saddam & WMD, Mr. Hoon. Voices that apparently were filtered out, resulting in an unbalanced assessment. It was a situation that required extreme caution because of the unpredictable aftermath. You had a duty of care, Mr Hoon, that it appears you did not fully exercise.

[drinuk]

I note that there was no comment from Hoon regarding Britian's top expert on Iraq and WMD's, Dr David Kelly. Having told Blairs government and the country that there were no WMD's Dr Kelly was found DEAD!
They said it was suicide, there are many who believe he was murdered to shut him up. Assasinated! To allow them to proceed with their bogus excuses to go to war in Iraq. Whether it be Hoon, Blair, Bush or Cheney there is little difference, they are as evil as is Bin Laden and of no benefit of our respective nations. These are the people we have employed and payed to care for us and our families, Liars, Cheats and Thieves.

kesac4650 wrote:

"Yeah, but it is a lot more fun to pretend thst the bad guys took over the country, to make their buddies rich."

Are you saying that ******** Cheney isn't making money out of Halliburton etc - especially as they are getting a huge amount of contracts over other companies?

Are you saying that companies who basically paid for GW Bush to become President haven't been awarded no-bid contracts?

[johnpatrick9]

Group thinking is a dangerous thing and repressive to any dissent..."go along and shut up, are you saying you (A Subordinate) know better than I (your superior)?!!? Get on board!" Seigh Heil, and march off to Stalingrad. The Best and Brightest still walk among us though they should be called the Monkeys see and the Monkeys do ...and then the little people die and are maimed for life. "Sorry. Lets move on. Mistakes were made (but not by me.) Its all in my book, how I was just an innocent party to this whole event."
To all of you who supported and voted for Bush hang your heads in shame and for all of you who have bravely opposed this military-industrial take over of our Republic...fight on for you were and are intellectually and morally correct that this premptive war was and is an abomination fostered upon us by arrogant and ignorant men and women with no sense of history or caring of the horrors they have unleashed through their ineptness.

[adian1-2009]

This little and late mea culpa is nonsense. Now it is that the belief in that attack and invasion --the attackers prefer to call it war-- was necessary was an honest belief. It is just that the aftermath of the attack and invasion was not assessed correctly. Come on! The British? Is it that you do not remember that you made up Iraq in the 2Os? Had you not been there for decades and decades? Did you not see that there was such a disparity between three regions that for the convenience of your corporations you amalgamated into one that now is called Iraq? And even though so much time has elapsed since then, you did not assess the consequences? I simply do not buy it, sir!!!

[neoconrcrazy]

Brit War Chief: We Underestimated Cheney :


American Public : We too !

[harp1963]

After 300 years of guerrilla warfare with Ireland and these guys say they didn't anticipate the bloody aftermath of the Iraq war? The Brits must be dumber than I thought they were.

[bluestardad]

It is not anti Semitic to believe there are millions of other good people in the Middle East with valid concerns! 50 years of bleeding, and buying support for Israel is enough! Play nice or America is leaving the Entire Middle East!

Even Eisenhower had problems with Israeli groups but he did not let them buy him!

READ AS THEY BRAG ABOUT THEIR INFLUENCE ON OUR GOVERNMENT!
http://www.aipac.org/forms/
join_aipacClubs.htm


Founded in 1953 by Isaiah L. "Si" Kenen, AIPAC's original name was the American Zionist Committee for Public Affairs. According to UCLA political science professor and author, Steven Spiegel, "the tension between the Eisenhower administration and Israeli supporters was so acute that there were rumors that the administration would investigate the American Zionist Council. Therefore, an independent lobbying committee was formed, which years later was renamed [AIPAC]." [SPIEGEL, p. 52].[citation needed] Today, AIPAC has over 100,000 members.[1]
Activities and stated goals AIPAC's stated purpose is to lobby the Congress of the United States on issues and legislation "to ensure that the U.S.-Israel relationship is strong so that both countries can work together" to meet the challenges of "stopping Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons, fighting terrorism and achieving peace".[2] The New York Times described AIPAC on July 6, 1987 as "a major force in shaping United States policy in the Middle East."

[gkc99]

When you consider that Darth Chickenshit, famed Vietnam War draft dodger, is actually the guy giving the orders from his "undisclosed location" to Prez. Bonzo Bushit, it's not surprising that a lot of people underestimate his influence. However head Limey Lapdog Tony Bliar must take his share of the game for "going along."

Too bad none of these foreign policy geniuses thought to ask the "man on the street" how the typical person (yes, Iraqis are people) would react to a foreign occupying power. Even if the Chinese Army invaded to throw out Bushit and Chickenshit from the US government, most of us would soon tire of their presence, I'm sure.

[crater7]

No surprise here, everyone knows that Cheney, has been making decisions for over 6 years. He tells Bush what he's going to do, and lets Bush think he actually made the decision. Leading to the Term " The Decider ".

[rafterman1]

It was always my suspicion that Cheney was the one that Republicans wanted for president, but they knew he was unelectable. So they picked Bush to be this sort of dupe that Cheney could pull the strings on.

Except, the dupe realized he was president now and, deciding that he was "the decider", got away from the program, much to the chagrin of his handlers. Now you have these two forces pulling at each other, which is why you have these sometimes conflicting views coming from the White House all the time.

No proof of this, but it makes you wonder what's going on in the White House.

[toldyouso21]

Let's take a look at that Downing street memo, the fake curveball data, and the fake yellow cake--I think, over 4 years ago, I I could come to a different conclusion--and did. My take? Bush helped in some way to orchestrate 9/11 to trick the American public to be behind him to do exactly what he wanted--NOT to get Bin Laden or even to fight in Afghanistan (smoke and mirrors to placate the gullible) it was about Iraq and oil in the 1990s, still about them in the year 2000 when he took office --he wanted a war and trumped up intel and info--carefully fed what he wanted to Congress and the Public while never revealing the rest--and he got his war.

See that look on his face the day of 9/11/01, while he is reading my pet goat? People think he is just looking stunned or scared--he was looking neither. He probably was thinking--"I wonder if I can look shocked enough or if anyone will see through this and realize I must have killed all those people so's I could start a war"

Go back and look at the speeches following 9/11, note Bush always looking up warily before he begins his address. Those looks keep wondering if the "jig" is up. But don't worry, Jr--most Americans refuse to believe you were involved in 9/11--because it is just too surreal and horrific to accept and just too "conspiracy theory" they reacted and continue to react just like you hoped.

[eggy1620]

The pre war WMD intelligence was not faulty. It was dead on. The Cheney Bush administration knew exactly what kind of WMD Iraq had . . .none, but told the public otherwise. The White House picked a fight with the only kid on the axis of evil playground whom they knew did not have a roll of quarters hidden in his fist.

[toldyouso21]

In 2001, just after the attacks, I told my neighbor--now America will do just what terrorists and Bush wants them to do--they will be soooo scared and so confused that they will strike out at anyone and everyone. I said this on 9/12/01. WE will go to war. Probably with Iraq since Bush hates them and wants to show up his dad, The man has something to prove in his own mind. Well my neighbor was definitely for the war and for Afghanistan--so was I. But later, she was for Iraq and I said--if we go into Iraq and kill all those people--we will regret it--they will hate us until the day they die and will want revenge.b We are going based on the mind of a liar and a madman and his evil sidekick (Cheney) at the time, I thought it was a diversion also from Enron and Cheney's involvement that still is not known. I said (in 2002) the country would fall apart and all those rushing to war would later, feel duped. part 1

[toldyouso21]

Long before Bush's speech, World News had the UN report that the yellowcake data was fake (2002). I knew it was a mess and said America is destroying their own credibility and this war will be illegal. Forget the mistakes and what we should have done right--here is what we did wrong--stupid stuff. Like assume anyone wants strangers to invade and bomb them. Like assume people of another ethnicity, culture, religion, etc would relish strange tanks going in and killing them, like thinking the dead do not count if they are not our own and that everyone would "just get over it" like we kept doing. Every dead person had relatives, friends, communities--they are the ones we fight now, terrorism cannot help but grow. Hence my moniker "I told you so" but I am not the only one. Everyone not clouded by emotion or deluded by propaganda were saying the same thing, wrong war, illegal war, smokescreen for imperialism. FACT--no country is ruled by outsiders without their cooperation--vast numbers of collaborators (we set it up right) with loyalty to the new masters from America (we got that part wrong) We underestimated too many of the differences and then did the unpardonable--we thought we could dictate what another people did and how their gov. worked--because we think people want to be like America. Almost no country wants to be LIKE America--they just want to have the things and the power Americans have--BIG DIFFERENCE.

[gkc99]

Come on Congress Dems--impeach Darth Chickenshit, get him on the stand, and INTERROGATE HIM UNDER OATH!

All the world should see what we have elected to run the "American democracy." Don't let him hide forever behind his mask of secrecy.

And at the same time, examination of his mental state for fitness to rule should be made by a board of psychiatrists.

[briannorwood]

I don't know about you, but I'm getting pretty tired of these idiots confessing to the obvious (a.k.a. "mistakes were made") yet denying the not-so-obvious (a.k.a. "we all thought there were WMD") to cover the fact that they were all drinking from the same kool-aid pitcher!

If Mr. Hoon thought Cheney was wagging the dog, he should have spoken up when it really mattered. Otherwise, take a seat at the back of the bus with George Tenet.

[antoniof123]

Wow this was not news it should have been reported years ago. We already knew this but the media was to concerned with helping the conservitive wing nuts now things are starting to get back to normal. I want to know who stoled my country then I want to take vengence on them.

[clestes-2009]

What a load of ***. Ever heard of the Downing street memo?? British intelligence said Saddam had no weapons, told Tony Blair that, told Bush that.

As for Bush being run by Cheney, the Brits should have figured that one out. Bush can't tie his shoes without help. If not for his Dad, he would have been bounced out of politics ages ago.

[oleander8]

The vast majority of the American people also underestimated Cheney - no Vice President in our history has wielded the kind of power that Cheney does - but then we have never had such a light-weight president either. To say he is intellectually challenged is an understatement. And I think his limitations were understood by the people that made him president.

[shingles1]

No comments from the Dead Enders of the 101 Fighting Keyboardists (fartknocker, one_american, etc.)?

Come on guys, I'm waiting to hear how "they found the WMD but suppressed the news" or "Chlorine is WMD" or "The WMD was moved to Syria" or "Satan hid the WMD with his invisible cloaking device" or...

[acctriangle]

Duhhh,

Everyone knows that Cheney is the unelected president.

And it is amazing how someone could be so scared to avoid going to war himself, but is now the authority of sending other people into civil unrest in the Middle East.

Shouldn't our leaders lead by example???

[tuckerndfw]

Israel wanted the US & UK to invade Iraq.

Same as Israel now wants the US & UK to invade Iran.

ExxonMobil & British Petroleum (and other oil companies, war profiteers) also wanted the US & UK to invade Iraq. And, also want the US & UK to invade Iran. Keeps those oil prices up and unearned profits rolling in.

Those are the only reasons the US & UK organized the illegal invasion of Iraq. And, is currently demonizing Iran the same way they demonized Iraq.

If the UN Security Council had authorized the invasion, it would have been the "right thing to do." They did not, so it was not.

It was not the "right thing to do," it is a war crime. And all those responsible should be charged with those crimes.

[finewoven]

Almost no country wants to be LIKE America--they just want to have the things and the power Americans have--BIG DIFFERENCE.
Posted by toldyouso21 at 09:09 AM : May 02, 2007

I so agree with this, and to add to it a little, they want our millions and billions in hand-outs. Foreign aid that perhaps acts in dual fashion, to appease those who would otherwise oppose us, and/or to use to buy our military wares. I've lost track of how much money is given to foreign welfare-states, as if we owe them. But the World Bank can give 40% salary increases to the girlfriend of the of its President. Maybe it's all a Casino--Jackpot!!

[gramto7]

Come on Congress Dems--impeach Darth Chickenshit, get him on the stand, and INTERROGATE HIM UNDER OATH!
snip
Posted by gkc99

It wouldn't matter to him if he was under oath. He would still lie with that damnnned smirk on his ugly mug and figure that he was untouchable as far as being tried for perjury.

[finewoven]

He probably was thinking--"I wonder if I can look shocked enough or if anyone will see through this and realize I must have killed all those people so's I could start a war"
Posted by toldyouso21 at 08:51 AM : May 02, 2007

Give me a break. It's not only absurd, it's downright ignorant to impose such illusions. You had so many bright things to say, and now you've gone and made a point that is utterly foolish. Get some balance will you.

[houchin21]

People keep saying to impeach president bush , but it eaiser said than done.


(HILLARY CLINTON FOR PRESIDENT)

[freedomisnot]

They deserve justice. That will serve as a warning to future administrations as well, and help re-establish America%u2019s credibility in the eyes of the world.

Posted by mascarponi at 11:30 AM : May 02, 2007

You forget Congress voted to go to war in Iraq which would make all of the US congress equally guilty by your logic. And while I'm not opposed to throwing them all out of office and starting over the slippery slope of giving American independence over to the UN is very dangerous. The UN is filled with self serving power hungry tyrants that would love to drag the US through the mud

[sephius-2009]

Everyone is trying to wipe there hands of the debacle in Iraq. Excuses. Excuses. Why didn't any of these idiot warmongers say anything sooner.

"We underestimated Cheney power blah blah blah...."

Are you joking??? Cheney's been in American politics for 50 years, as a senator, as a cabinet member, an now as VP. They didn't verify the intel on Iraq, nor the intel on Cheney.

[AgentGGG]

Where is the accountability for the failure of intelligence?

And furthermore, how can the Iraq invasion be legally justified?

[dubby12]

IT IS FAR TOO LATE FOR ANY OF THIS! We have been lied to about all of this all along and all of you war mongers and haters of other cultures loved it! H _ _ L yes Cheney, Rumsfield, Bush all lied and deceived the "free" world! If they were regular citizens they would most likely have been incarcerated-WHICH IS STILL NOT A BAD IDEA.

[dallison7]

As for Bush being run by Cheney, the Brits should have figured that one out. Bush can't tie his shoes without help. If not for his Dad, he would have been bounced out of politics ages ago.
Posted by clestes


If not for his Dad, all of his speeches would end with "WANT FRIES WITH THAT?"

[drinuk]

Having read these pages for months the continuing criticism of Bush and Cheney grow ever more damming as the days pass. At the same time the Blair Gang in Britian suffer equally bitter attacks yet where are we ? What the hell are we doing about these crooks and liars, like someone said earlier they should be put on trial as a deterant to those who may follow. These evil self interest cretins became politicians to enhance their wealth, as did the rest of them in government. Life for ordinary working folks will not improve until we have people working for us who do actually work for us. The time is Now! to make an example of the cheats and crooks, I don't want to be reading all this over and over for another year.

[barryconnoll]

Why does the media allow these politicians to get away with the excuse that they honestly thought Saddam had weapons of mass destruction? Scott Ritter, the former head of the UNSCUM inspection team (a former marine) repeatedly warned that no weapons existed. That any claim to the contrary was false. Hundreds of thousands have died because of these murderous actions, and trillions of needed dollars wasted. Vote carefully, something americans are learning slowly.

[barryconnoll]

This kind of partisan nonesense helps nobody. Iraq is in utter turmoil with violence and carnage. Standing up for this as you sit safely in America illustrates how blind you are to the reality. The war was waged under false pretenses and is an unholy disaster. Americas actions this time have been an utter disgrace.

[barryconnoll]

"Take a stand on the War against Islam" Whoa, you really are showing your true bigotted opinions now. We invaded them. Get it right.

[barryconnoll]

Your figures are way off as is your rationale for invading another country. It's easy if you havent grown up with war on your own soil to support it elsewhere. If ever a war was unjustified this is it. If you can't see that or the hateful messianic nonesense coming from the religious right here at home nobody will convince you. Muslims are decent people too who have been invaded and terrorized by the west for centuries. The terrorism in the Middle East is a result of centuries of injustice. Americans for the most part seem oblivious to their duplicity in the region, and that is a major issue. But hey, we got their oil, right?

[barryconnoll]

Let's stick to the facts which are important. Iraq was invaded under false pretenses and hundreds of thousands died. If this was any other country other than America UN sanctions and a possible trade embargo would have been called for. I personbally think this should have happened so my tax dollars aren't used for slaughter in the future. There was concrete evidence that Saddam Hussein didn't possess WMD but this White House wanted the war from September 12 (and before that)

[pensacola8-2009]

Don't any of you recall the name Richard V. Secord? He was the arms broker that popped up in the Oliver North hearings for the Iran-Contra affair. He was an opportunist, ex-General, who retired and became an arms broker. His clients were Sadaam Hussien and Osama Bin Laden. Sadaam helped us fight the Iranians, and Osama Bin Laden helped us fight the Russians in Afganistan. This was the best evidence that existed about WMD, because we knew and approved their purcahse. No law was broken. Today, the circumstances are different. We approved arms purchases by customers who turned out to be disloyal to the United States and her allies. The link between Afganistan and Iraq was in those arms purchases that the USA approved 20 years ago. We were still fighting the Cold War then, and didn't know how reliable our alliances were. Other friends turned villan are General Pinochet - Chile and Manuel Noriega - Panama. Anybody who promised us they would resist and repel communism was approved to purchase weapons in those years.

[finewoven]

And when you liberal dems. wimps get your way and we pull out You'll be right back on board when we loose another 3000 in one suicide bomb in Times square.
Posted by superchez1 at 01:13 PM : May 02, 2007

Political affiliations aside, if you realize that Sadaam was put in place by the U.S, then we are to blame for the 2.5 million deaths. If the U.S was really upset about 9/11, it would have launched missiles against Saudi Arabia or Jordan, because those were the original source countries of those enemy combatants. Your flippant view that Democrats are to blame if we bring our troops home shows me what a dumb f*ck you are, thinking that the immediate result would be the blowing up Times Square.

[finewoven]

For the record, I am in favor of keeping troops in Iraq. But I am also in favor of an intensive campaign to get the people in Iraq to side with peaceful means of building their society through a sense of community. This may come through Islam, if the leaders that promote peace are teaching their adherents those ways. If Islam practices seek to prevent or limit women%u2019s participation, disallow the consumption of alcohol, prevent the application of interest in loans, forbid dogs or some other animals, and at the extreme%u2014kill every infidel; then what is to be done but respond with isolationist laws to remove them from our society.

But look at Rwanda, or the Congo, or Sudan, or Ethiopia, or Bosnia, or even Nazi Germany. People make up their own reasons for mass murder. The Spanish Inquisition gave Jews two options, conversion or death. It%u2019s all senseless, except for those who profit.

[shedhouserob-2009]

this is just shows you who runs the white house- Corporate Cheney. His stooge- Georgie takes all the flak- you can't but help like the dumb bell, he takes all the heat while the real head of state Cheney lines his pockets at the expense of the lives of American soldiers and Irag's population. He tells anybody that disagrees with him to go f#uck themselves, shoot his hunting partners and tells the public, hey I'm the vice president, tough sh#t. His corporation is raking in huge profits, and making Corporate Cheney a billionaire by the time he leaves office. Impeach this worm not good old George. George can be controlled. (Ask Cheney)

[SamThornton]

Shows how easy it is to be prescient in hindsight. How reassuring to know other countries also elevate ignorant boobs to positions of power. If the human race is not doomed to extinction, it certainly won't be the fault of any of the bozos in charge in Washington and London.