Ex-General: Bush Should Sign Iraq Bill

On Democrats' Radio Time Retired Army Big Says U.S. Squandered Lives

(AP)  President Bush should sign legislation starting the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq on Oct. 1, retired Army Lt. Gen. William Odom said Saturday.

"I hope the president seizes this moment for a basic change in course and signs the bill Congress has sent him," Odom said, delivering the Democrats' weekly radio address.

Odom, an outspoken critic of the war who served as the Army's top intelligence officer and headed the National Security Agency during the Reagan administration, delivered the address at the request of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif. He said he has never been a Democrat or a Republican.

The general accused Bush of squandering U.S. lives and helping Iran and al Qaeda when he invaded Iraq.

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Listen: Democrats' radio address
Read: Bush pushes immigration in radio address

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"The challenge we face today is not how to win in Iraq; it is how to recover from a strategic mistake: invading Iraq in the first place," he said. "The president has let (the Iraq war) proceed on automatic pilot, making no corrections in the face of accumulating evidence that his strategy is failing and cannot be rescued. He lets the United States fly further and further into trouble, squandering its influence, money and blood, facilitating the gains of our enemies."

Odom said he doesn't favor congressional involvement in the execution of foreign and military policy, but argued that Bush had been derelict in his responsibilities. This week Congress passed an Iraq war spending bill that would require Bush to begin withdrawing troops from Iraq on Oct. 1.

[joanpz]

GW Bush HERE IS A BRIGADIER GENERAL, ret "WHO IS TELLING YOU, A POLITICIAN, THAT THE IRAQ WAR is a STRATEGIC MISTAKE & THAT YOU, GW BUSH HAVE NOT TAKEN ANY ACTION TO RELIEVE THE GREVIOUS ERROR YOU COMMITTED when your ADMINISTRATION ORDERED SOLDIERS TO INVADE IRAQ" because your administration considered Iraq a "slam dunk" - Al Sadr SAID IT RIGHT THIS MORN, THIS WAR HAS "RUINED" THE U.S. REPUTATION and that THE EAST HAS LOST RESPECT FOR U.S. PROMISED FREEDOM.
IT IS ADAMANT THAT YOU, GW BUSH SIGN THE BILL PRESENTED BY THE 110TH CONGRESS! Bring PEACE TO THE WORLD - not WAR & OIL!

[buffalo_ken]

Yes,

Let there be peace.

www.kjh-es.com

[hsinco-2009]

Impeach now!

[rharrin1]

Haven't any of you people been listening, bush does not take advice as he is the decider.

[slipster01]

Odom advocated INCREASING troops in NAT/Kosovo to fight against a civil war, but not in the middle-east? What a hypocrite.

Here's Odom's 'non-political' writings.

http://www.hudson.org/learn/index.cfm?fuseaction=staff_bio&eid=OdomWill

Victory is Not an Option 02/12/2007
Know When to Fold 'Em 01/11/2007
How to Cut and Run 10/31/2006
Intelligence Community No Better than Its Policymakers 08/03/2004
Retreating in Good Order 07/23/2004
Fixing Intelligence Book Discussion as seen on C-Span 05/29/2003
General Odom's Bibliography of Published Articles 05/23/2002
Realism About Russia 04/26/2002
TESTIMONY BEFORE THE HOUSE INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS COMMITTEE 04/17/2002
Macedonia Crisis Shows Need for NATO Expansion 06/25/2001
Buchanan Has It Backwards on Globalization 08/23/2000
A Disaster Puts Putin in a Bind 08/23/2000
21st Century Directions in American Foreign Policy 04/01/2000
Russia's Next Blunder 10/29/1999
Losing Our Russian Illusions 11/01/1998
Ratifying NATO Enlargement: Borah Versus Vandenberg 04/01/1998

[radiob-2009]

Al Sadr SAID IT RIGHT THIS MORN, THIS WAR HAS "RUINED" THE U.S. REPUTATION and that THE EAST HAS LOST RESPECT FOR U.S. PROMISED FREEDOM.
IT IS ADAMANT THAT YOU, GW BUSH SIGN THE BILL PRESENTED BY THE 110TH CONGRESS! Bring PEACE TO THE WORLD - not WAR & OIL!
Posted by joanpz at 02:42 PM : Apr 28, 2007


No Bush has permantely ruined his family reputation. Sadr is only postering so that he can take control of Iraq and who is he sleeping with?

[randalds]

Nine more of our troops were killed today because Bush's ego won't let him admit that this war is lost. Instead he's desperately trying to draw it out so the next president has to clean up his mess after, just like his daddy has all of his spoiled rich kid frat boy life. The nine more troops are just the latest and certainly will not be the last of the blood on Bush's hands. Bush knows the war is lost, but he doesn't want it to happen on his watch, so at least another 1000 of our troops will die in the next year and a half, all to try to make Bush look just a little less like an as*shole in the eyes of history, when all it's really doing is making him look more like more of one. He IS a murderer and a low life scum of one at that.

[rafterman1]

Let's wait now for the excuses from the righties why Odom is no good. Because their usual M.O. is to trash any military man who comes out against the war (and it's a lot of them).

What the righties don't realize is, this is an opportunity to save their political lives. A withdrawl deadline is the first actual strategy change in Iraq since it started. It will finally give the Iraqis incentive to step up and take control of their own security. Because if the 2008 election comes and we are still "staying the course" in Iraq, the Republican losses in Congress will be even bigger than 2006. Dems are actually giving Repubs a lifeline, but they are too dumb to realize it.

[joanpz]

Sadly, just finished reading: Out of Iraq, McGovern & Polk. Last words are the neo-cons are in the process of setting up PERPETUAL WARS to bring nations subservient to their idea of government - other mention is that wars are being planned into 2050! Good Read - lesson learned that SOVEREIGNITY BEFORE SECURITY - GW Bush's administration is WORKING IN REVERSE!
Guess they are still expecting to be WELCOMED WITH FLOWERS - in the next world?

[slipster01]

so, we are now accepting Al Sadr as the voice of reason to justify Odom's comments?

[slipster01]

gkc99,

First off, you have been reported for violation of the ROE.

Second, didn't CBS report that China, India, and Japan have gotten the Iraqi oil contracts, not America? You need to read up a bit more before posting your facts.

[kesac4650]

How many lives has Odom squandered by giving hope and aid to the enemy with his propaganda. Roosevelt would have put a stop to such slander, but Bush has been too nice of a guy about such things.

[rafterman1]

===How many lives has Odom squandered by giving hope and aid to the enemy with his propaganda.===

Ah, there we go. I knew disrespecting Odom (and his many years of military experience) wouldn't take long.

[slipster01]

Rafterman1,

Why not let Odom's own words speak for themselves? He's been advocating the Democrat side for years, i.e. cut and run, victory is not an option, etc.

http://www.hudson.org/learn/index.cfm?fuseaction=staff_bio&eid=OdomWill

Victory is Not an Option 02/12/2007
Know When to Fold 'Em 01/11/2007
How to Cut and Run 10/31/2006
Intelligence Community No Better than Its Policymakers 08/03/2004
Retreating in Good Order 07/23/2004
Fixing Intelligence Book Discussion as seen on C-Span 05/29/2003
General Odom's Bibliography of Published Articles 05/23/2002
Realism About Russia 04/26/2002
TESTIMONY BEFORE THE HOUSE INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS COMMITTEE 04/17/2002
Macedonia Crisis Shows Need for NATO Expansion 06/25/2001
Buchanan Has It Backwards on Globalization 08/23/2000
A Disaster Puts Putin in a Bind 08/23/2000
21st Century Directions in American Foreign Policy 04/01/2000
Russia's Next Blunder 10/29/1999
Losing Our Russian Illusions 11/01/1998
Ratifying NATO Enlargement: Borah Versus Vandenberg 04/01/1998

[hayesc1-2009]

Lt Gen Odom is taking the long view. This administration has gotten it wrong from the beginning with regard to Iraq. They claim that if we were not in Iraq then Al Qaeda would be in the US and we would be less safe. That is just a lie, plain and simple. The US military is fighting terrorism in multiple places and the extremists would have focused on the Afghan fight if we would not have chose to open a front in Iraq. Iraq was not a threat before we invaded. Sadaam was a bad man but he did not allow other groups of extremists to do anything in Iraq. The US invasion spawned all this activity in Iraq. It has been a mistake and there is no way we can just wait till the Iraqi's put aside their sectarian issues to leave.

[fredgrad2000]

"The challenge we face today is not how to win in Iraq; it is how to recover from a strategic mistake: invading Iraq in the first place," - General Odom as quoted above

Invading Iraq was a strategic mistake, no doubt, that's a good term for it, blunder could also work. But unfortunately as a couple other posters have made clear here, Al Qaeda and Iran were NOT problems as they related to Iraq before we invaded...but they certainly are now!! We defeated Iraq (Saddam's Iraq), but if we have lost now, we lost to those two entities in the post-2003 period. It has been Iran and Al Qaeda that have helped to ignite and foment the sectarian strife that has left Iraq to this point ungovernable. If there is a victory that unfolds from this, from our withdrawal, it will be theirs, and they will be the beneficiaries (Iran will have their puppets under Sadr - aka Hezbollah Iraq - controlling most of Iraq, including the southern oil; and Al Qaeda will have far more valuable territory to plan and attack our interests and allies locally, and if they have their way NOT locally - aka the US, and most importantly, Iran will be secure to finish their nukes, by helping to bloody us and deny us a victory in Iraq, they have helped to ensure we won't have the will to take them out, even if that means allowing them nukes). This is certainly a case where the "strategic blunder" cannot just be correct by "reversing" the error, i.e., just pulling out.

[rafterman1]

===Why not let Odom's own words speak for themselves? He's been advocating the Democrat side for years, i.e. cut and run, victory is not an option, etc===

Doens't matter. His years as a military officer, all the way to Lt General, says that he knows something about war. And he knows what a number of other retired officers are saying - the US is in a horrible tactical situation in Iraq. The strategy is bad, plain and simple and no one in the Bush administration is trying to even change it or are willing to try something different.

[slipster01]

"Doens't matter. His years as a military officer, all the way to Lt General, says that he knows something about war. And he knows what a number of other retired officers are saying - the US is in a horrible tactical situation in Iraq. The strategy is bad, plain and simple and no one in the Bush administration is trying to even change it or are willing to try something different."

How do his years as a military officer allow you to disregard his writings? The article is ALL about his writings, not his military career. And, what type of officer was he? Was he hated or admired? Was he a butt-kisser, or a Yes-man, or a can-do person? This article says NOTHING of his military career.

[feelfree1]

Mr. Odom nails it here:

"The challenge we face today is not how to win in Iraq; it is how to recover from a strategic mistake: invading Iraq in the first place,"

Too bad most Democrats lack the courage to take this stance.

[slipster01]

Here's his career brief. Most of it was a a TEACHER at universities, NOT fighting wars! He hasn't been on active duty for nearly 20 years.

1954 Graduated from the West Point Military Academy.
1954-1960, Served in both the United States and West Germany.
1962, Earned a Masters Degree from Columbia University.
1964-1966, Served as part of the military liaison mission to the Soviet Union.
1966-1969, Taught at West Point as an assistant professor of government.
1970, Completed a Ph.d. at Columbia.
1970-1971, At this point a Lieutenant Colonel, served in Vietnam, being on the Staff of Plans, Policy, and Programs, and working on the Vietnamization phase of the war.
1971-1972, visiting scholar at the Research Institute on Communist Affairs at Columbia.
1972-1974, US military attache at the United States embassy in Moscow.
1974, Published The Soviet Volunteers: Modernization and Bureaucracy in a Public Mass Organization,
1974-1975, Associate of the Research Institute on International Change at Columbia
1974-1977, Associate professor, Department of Social Science at West Point.
1975-1976, Associate member of the Columbia University Seminar on Communism
1975-1977, Senior research associate, Research Institute on International Change at Columbia
1977-1981, Military assistant to Zbigniew Brzezinski.
1981-1985, Assistant chief of staff for intelligence,Army.
1984, promoted to Lieutenant General.
1985-1988, Director of the National Security Agency

[slipster01]

According to his career brief, he never commanded troops. What does he know of war?

[slipster01]

gkc99, read the ROE
"There%u2019s legal language nearby. Here's the plain English: no libel, slander, no lying, no fabricating, no swearing at all, no words that teenagers use a lot that some people think aren't swearing but we do, no insulting groups or individuals, no ethnic slurs and/or epithets, no religious bigotry, no threats of any kind, no bathroom humor, no comparing anyone to Hitler, Stalin or Pol Pot. We expect heated, robust debate, but comments should be polite and civil. We consider this to be public space so behave and write accordingly.

Yes, what is not allowable is subjective. CBSNews.com absolutely reserve the right to remove posts we think break any of the rules or the spirit of the rules and we reserve the right to ban individuals from commenting. We will use language filtering programs to block certain words and we will use human editing too.

Comments should be limited to the topic of the original posting. This is not the place for private conversations, no matter how innocent.

We require everyone who comments to register and provide a real e-mail address. No exceptions. And posting comments is not the same thing as complaining to CBS News or notifying CBS News of a problem %u2013 legally, there%u2019s a big difference.

Very important: if you see a comment that you feel is inappropriate, let us know by clicking on the %u201Ccomment complaint%u201D or "report this complaint" button."

[slipster01]

CBS's policies, not mine gkc99.

Who's in the wrong here, and will bad-mouth and name-call to distract from the truth?

You are doing that, gkc99, not me. You are calling people names. Whose mantra is that?

[gkc99]

Genug ist genug mit das Prezident Bushit und das Vice-Prezident Chickenshithawk Cheney. Impeach NOW!

The voice for impeachment of the present pathetically inept and criminal administration will never be silenced by any troll. Shoot down one spokesperson, and another will arise. That is the voice of the American people, friend.

[homespunlady]

Just a little more ammunition to point out what a failed set of policies the current executive branch has put in place.

Rebuilt Iraq Projects Found Crumbling
By JAMES GLANZ
Published: April 29, 2007
In a troubling sign for the American-financed rebuilding program in Iraq, inspectors for a federal oversight agency have found that in a sampling of eight projects that the United States had declared successes, seven were no longer operating as designed because of plumbing and electrical failures, lack of proper maintenance, apparent looting and expensive equipment that lay idle.

Even the much publicized "rebuilding effort" now appears to be a failure. Is that NOT a surprise after reading all the reports about graft, mismanagement and "missing" money with our "specially picked" no-bid contractors???
How's that move to Dubai going for your company Haliburton Mr. Chaney? Robbed the US Treasury enough - Robbed the Iraqis of a DECENT rebuilding to line the pockets of WHICH people?

Pretty sure there'll be investigations over this neo CON job for decades to come.

[homespunlady]

According to his career brief, he never commanded troops. What does he know of war?
Posted by SlipSter01 at 09:54 PM : Apr 28, 2007

There is one VERY obvious difference. Like George SR. who ALSO chose to NOT go into Baghdad he appears to have a considerable background in INTELLIGENCE and DIPLOMACY. Excellent credentials in ASSESSING the situation and potential risks.
JR OBVIOUSLY has NO claim or background in ANY form of INTELLIGENCE which explains his glaring lack of understanding.

[norcalruss]

It must be like water torture for the CHIMP and CHICKEN HAWK. Another nick and cut on a nearly daily basis. General Petraeus took off the rose-colored glasses worn by Bush when he accessed the situation in Iraq. George Tenet revealed that he warned Bush that anarchy would follow his foolish invasion into Iraq. Congress gave him a slap in the face with a vote of no confidence. Another General telling him that it was a MISTSAKE to invade Iraq. 100 US GIs killed this month. And on Tuesday, the fourth anniversary of the CHIMPS infamous swagger aboard the aircraft carrier to claim, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!! Yes mission accomplished indeed.

[stevex47]

Today was a terrible day in Iraq for everyone involved. We're in a deep mess. And everyone involved needs help. The blame game does nothing to reverse course. Let's get on a corrective track.

[nearl4511]

I predict that the President will continue to hide behind the dead bodies of our fallen soldiers in Iraq. It is a shame that so many people have to die (Americans and Iraqis) in an attempt to salvage the reputation of an adamant, ignorant man and that of the neocons as well.

This type of cowardice will not be forgotten for hundreds of years following his Presidency.

[norcalruss]

Oh, I forgot one more cut that will most likely happen in the next week or two. The low-life dirt-bag who was the chief architect of this colossal stupidity in Iraq, Paul Wolfowitz, will most likely be gone from the World Bank. Good riddance to bad rubbish. If this is so, that makes two down, Ronald Dumsfeld being the other, and four more to go. If we can say bon voyage of Gonzo, Rove, CHICKEN HAWK, and CHIMP, we can move from neo-fascism back to democracy.

[feelfree1]

Re: "President Bush should sign legislation starting the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq on Oct. 1"

I have a better idea. Let's get our troops out of there immediately, so we can focus on initiating war crimes tribunals against the Bush regime by October, 2007!

www.ipetitions.com/petition/OutNow

[fascistusa]

Articles of IMPEACHMENT were started against Cheney.

Gonzales was PROTESTED at his Harvard 25th reunion.

An ESCORT list of High Ranking US Officials was released.

Carl Rove was attacked by 20 students after speaking at American University in Washington, D.C.

But you wouldn't know this information if you read the CORPORATE FASCIST MAINSTREAM NEWS.

FREE AMERICA FROM THIS FASCIST REGIME!!!!!!!!!!

[mh4cbs1]

Will the spinless Democrats, who are complicit in this War, please impeach Cheney and Bush so we can throw them in JAIL, where they belong!

Bush and Cheney are simply murderous thugs who deserve life in JAIL for LYING us into this WAR.

[iceman_1960]

"There was never a serious debate that I know of within the administration about the imminence of the Iraqi threat," Tenet writes, adding that there was never "a significant discussion" about containing Iraq without an invasion.

Tenet also writes that he is not certain the increase in troops in Iraq will succeed, according to the Times. "It may have worked more than three years ago," he writes. "My fear is that sectarian violence in Iraq has taken on a life of its own and that U.S. forces are becoming more and more irrelevant to the management of that violence."

[iceman_1960]

"The challenge we face today is not how to win in Iraq; it is how to recover from a strategic mistake: invading Iraq in the first place," Odom said.

That is the thing Bush can never admit.

The Iraq War is the centerpiece of his entire Presidency.

Bush just doesn't have the guts now to do anything but prolong the agony in a hopeless attempt to save face.

[fascistusa]

Articles of IMPEACHMENT were started against Cheney.

Gonzales was PROTESTED at his Harvard 25th reunion.

An ESCORT SERVICE list with High Ranking US Officials who used that ESCORT SERVICE was released.

Carl Rove was attacked by 20 students after speaking at American University in Washington, D.C.

But you wouldn't know this information if you read the CORPORATE FASCIST MAINSTREAM NEWS.

FREE AMERICA FROM THIS FASCIST REGIME!!!!!!!!!!

[waynabq]

You know what's really funny? Its when GW tells the American public that the Generals in Iraq shouldn't have to listen to politicans in DC tell them how to how to run the "war" in Iraq.

What a pathetic lunatic the Chimp is, who does he think he is? The moron doesn't realize he is the number one idiot politician that put this country and the military in the cluster in Iraq.

Prior to invasion, Chimp didn't listen to anyone, military or civilian, who told him invading was a mistake and destroyed the careers of anyone who got in his way. Bush and Cheney need impeachment in the worse way.

[ndg1979]

I am glad Kucinich started to move on articles of impeachment against Cheney, but I was watching the first Democratic presidential debate Thursday and made one very important observation. When Brian Williams asked all of the other presidential contenders to raise their hands if they would back Kucinich on impeachment - NOT A SINGLE ONE RAISED THEIR HAND!!

I am a registered Democrat (do I always agree with them? - NO), but I find it hard to support the democratic party if they will not stand up to defend our constitution. The American people want Bush & Cheney out, but the democrats (except Kucinich) are trying to stay distant to save their campaigns. Hillary, Obama, Edwards & the rest - where are your guts - DON'T YOU REALLY WANT THE REPUBLICANS OUT?!

This one single act has me very dissapointed with the democratic party. Kucinich - remind me to share a beer with you after this is all over!

[homespunlady]

Seems George is justifying his stance with an ever tightening noose consisting of fewer and fewer backers and former neocons acting like former smokers - the most zealous converts to the other side in the bunch.
How many is it now that AFTER getting snakebit by him wrote tell all books. Funny how they ALL seem to be saying the same thing - THEY warned against it.
WHERE were they when that might have REALLY counted.The first were the bravest; now the rest just seem to be hopping the bandwagon. It's probably eventually tip the scales but the cost in blood and treasure is already lost.
I cry not for those fools that rode the train to war and fell off. I cry for the 3 year old child that died by the road and the soldier that has nightmares of seeing her there. I cry for a 15 year old pen pal that in fear hid and was killed by gunfire shot through the door she hid behind. I cry for an officer facing a corrupt contractor that never returned home. They are the REAL faces of this war.

[missingamerica]

Don't you feel kind of sorry for G.W. Bush?

I don't see how he can possibly retrieve his reputation in the now, let alone improve on how history will portray him for the rest of eternity...rue the day he met *** Cheney.

[wildm3]

The general seems to have lost a few marbles over the years. How can you say that no change in policy has been effected when the entire Petraus surge is a significant departure from the previous "sit in the base camp and venture out at night" approach?

The war goes poorly, the Islamic Extremists have poured everything they have into fomenting civil war, and Bush seems lost about how to grapple with what is fundamentally an ideological war. All this is true.

But the comments here show a marked disdain for the truth and for the nature of democratic society. First, Bush gained the assent of congress before committing troops to war - it is not "illegal."

Second, he made the case he had: focusing on some information while passing over other. This is called "judgment" and it was done with the support and agreement of a huge swath of the Washington establishment, including many Democrats. Now the hard left is screaming about lies, calling for impeachment and declaring America a fascist state?

This forum seems filled with people who don't like living in a Republic where decisions, once made, must be followed through. Bush may well have been wrong on Iraq (as was Clinton and Gore before him) but we arrived here through the normal, flawed process by which our government works. So all of you nutroots types calling for impeachment and "war trials" should reconsider whether you haven't spent a bit too much time rolling around in hate literature.

[wildm3]

The general seems to have lost a few marbles over the years. How can you say that no change in policy has been effected when the entire Petraus surge is a significant departure from the previous "sit in the base camp and venture out at night" approach?

The war goes poorly, the Islamic Extremists have poured everything they have into fomenting civil war, and Bush seems lost about how to grapple with what is fundamentally an ideological war. All this is true.

But the comments here show a marked disdain for the truth and for the nature of democratic society. First, Bush gained the assent of congress before committing troops to war - it is not "illegal."

Second, he made the case he had: focusing on some information while passing over other. This is called "judgment" and it was done with the support and agreement of a huge swath of the Washington establishment, including many Democrats. Now the hard left is screaming about lies, calling for impeachment and declaring America a fascist state?

This forum seems filled with people who don't like living in a Republic where decisions, once made, must be followed through. Bush may well have been wrong on Iraq (as was Clinton and Gore before him) but we arrived here through the normal, flawed process by which our government works. So all of you nutroots types calling for impeachment and "war trials" should reconsider whether you haven't spent a bit too much time rolling around in hate literature.

[wildm3]

The attempt to Democratize Iraq goes poorly, the Islamic Extremists have poured everything they have into fomenting civil war, and Bush seems lost about how to grapple with what is fundamentally an ideological war. All this is true.

But the comments here show a marked disdain for the truth and for the nature of a democratic republic. First, Bush gained the assent of congress before committing troops to war - it was not "illegal."

Second, he made the case he had: focusing on some information while passing over other. This is called "judgment" and, regardless of whether it was correct in hindsight, it was done with the support and agreement of a huge swath of the Washington establishment, including many Democrats. Now you scream about lies, call for impeachment and declare America a fascist state?

Bush may well have been wrong on Iraq (as was Clinton and Gore before him) but we arrived here through the normal, flawed process by which our government works. The commenters here calling for impeachment are, essentially, threatening the rest of us with political chaos for no other reason than it satisfies their desire to turn America's political landscape into a leftist mob-state.

[formrusmcsgt]

But the comments here show a marked disdain for the truth and for the nature of democratic society. First, Bush gained the assent of congress before committing troops to war - it is not "illegal."

Posted by WildM3 at 07:25 AM : Apr 29, 2007

Well written post, but disengenuous, to say the least.

Rice is facing a subpoena regarding the "monkeyed-up" intel that was used to get the authorization. We all know Bush would not have gotten the authorization without using bad intel and if he hadn't forced Blix to end his search for WMD before the invasion. Blix would have found none, and the point would have been moot.

The UN Charter, of which we are a signatory nation, prohibits war except when attacked or in the defense of another member nation. Neither clause applies to Iraq.

We signed the charter. We scream about others violating it. And then we violated it ourselves, thanks to the neocons. Nice work, indeed.

[wildm3]

The attempt to Democratize Iraq goes poorly, the Islamic Extremists have poured everything they have into fomenting civil war, and Bush seems lost about how to grapple with what is fundamentally an ideological war. All this is true.

But the comments here show a marked disdain for the truth and for the nature of a democratic republic. First, Bush gained the assent of congress before committing troops to war - it was not "illegal."

Second, he made the case he had: focusing on some information while passing over other. This is called "judgment" and, regardless of whether it was correct in hindsight, it was done with the support and agreement of a huge swath of the Washington establishment, including many Democrats. Now you scream about lies, call for impeachment and declare America a fascist state?

Bush may well have been wrong on Iraq (as was Clinton and Gore before him) but we arrived here through the normal, flawed process by which our government works. The commenters here calling for impeachment are, essentially, threatening the rest of us with political chaos for no other reason than it satisfies their desire to turn America's political landscape into a leftist mob-state.

[formrusmcsgt]

The commenters here calling for impeachment are, essentially, threatening the rest of us with political chaos for no other reason than it satisfies their desire to turn America's political landscape into a leftist mob-state.
Posted by WildM3 at 07:49 AM : Apr 29, 2007

I think they are more in line with wishing to see consequences for the acts which the General correctly described in his statement when "the general accused Bush of squandering U.S. lives and helping Iran and al Qaeda when he invaded Iraq."

[wildm3]

The attempt to Democratize Iraq goes poorly, the Islamic Extremists have poured everything they have into fomenting civil war, and Bush seems lost about how to grapple with what is fundamentally an ideological war. All this is true.

But the comments here show a marked disdain for the truth and for the nature of a democratic republic. First, Bush gained the assent of congress before committing troops to war - it was not "illegal."

Second, he made the case he had: focusing on some information while passing over other. This is called "judgment" and, regardless of whether it was correct in hindsight, it was done with the support and agreement of a huge swath of the Washington establishment, including many Democrats. Now you scream about lies, call for impeachment and declare America a fascist state?

Bush may well have been wrong on Iraq (as was Clinton and Gore before him) but we arrived here through the normal, flawed process by which our government works. The commenters here calling for impeachment are, essentially, threatening the rest of us with political chaos for no other reason than it satisfies their desire to turn America's political landscape into a leftist mob-state.

[wildm3]

The attempt to Democratize Iraq goes poorly, the Islamic Extremists have poured everything they have into fomenting civil war, and Bush seems lost about how to grapple with what is fundamentally an ideological war. All this is true.

But the comments here show a marked disdain for the truth and for the nature of a democratic republic. First, Bush gained the assent of congress before committing troops to war - it was not "illegal."

Second, he made the case he had: focusing on some information while passing over other. This is called "judgment" and, regardless of whether it was correct in hindsight, it was done with the support and agreement of a huge swath of the Washington establishment, including many Democrats. Now you scream about lies, call for impeachment and declare America a fascist state?

Bush may well have been wrong on Iraq (as was Clinton and Gore before him) but we arrived here through the normal, flawed process by which our government works. The commenters here calling for impeachment are, essentially, threatening the rest of us with political chaos for no other reason than it satisfies their desire to turn America's political landscape into a leftist mob-state.

[wildm3]

Please accept my apologies - when the "Publish" button was disabled after my comment, I assumed that it had not accepted my comment so I just kept retrying... If a forum admin can delete all but the newest comment, I would appreciate it!

[gkc99]

So Bonzo Bushit dares to criticize the Congress for "not listening to the men in uniform" while he has fired every general who dares to disagree with him. For a coward like Bushit, who went AWOL from even his slackass Texas Air National Guard "service", and Richard "Chickenshithawk" Cheney, who dodged the draft adeptly even in his generally pro-Vietnam war state of Wyoming, to fire Shinseki and all others who dared demur, to criticize on this basis, is ludicrous. Is there any person of honor left in the Bonzo Bushit administration?