Armed And Dangerous

Law Bans Sale Of Firearms To People With A History Of Severe Mental Illness

(CBS)  (Editor's Note: After our broadcast of "Armed and Dangerous," we heard from David L. Shern, whose organization Mental Health America was included in our story. In our reporting before the broadcast, Dr. Shern told us our interview with former President Michael Faenza accurately reflected Mental Health America's current position and Dr. Shern's current views on the legislation before Congress on mental illness and gun control.

However, after the broadcast Dr. Shern had more to say. Mental Health America is opposed to the current legislation and contends that it will further marginalize the mentally ill, while will not decreasing the rate of gun homicides, as this violence is mainly not perpetrated by the mentally ill.

The following is an excerpt from the letter we received from Dr. Shern: "The stigma of mental illnesses and barriers to treatment can lead to tragic results for individuals and families. In fact, there are 30,000 suicides each year in the U.S. (nearly twice the number as homicides), with most related to untreated mental illnesses. ... Finally, the current legislative proposal is obscenely expensive - $375 million. Imagine spending almost as much for a database as the $430 million the Federal Government currently spends on state grants to fund community mental health services!")

As the smoke clears from the massacre at Virginia Tech, a couple of things have become apparent. First, the gunman, who had a history of mental illness, should have been prohibited under federal law from buying the guns he used in the attack, and second, as horrific as the tragedy was, it is not that uncommon.

It is estimated that every year in the U.S., 1,000 homicides are committed by people with mental illness. It’s not supposed to be that way.

As correspondent Steve Kroft reports, the first federal gun control law ever passed in the U.S., way back in 1968, banned the sale of firearms to people with a history of severe mental illness, but the law has never been properly enforced. Seung-Hui Cho is but the latest deranged gunman to shoot up a school or a church or an office for no logical reason.

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"Every person who came in contact with him thought he was insane or dangerous," says Jim Kessler, a co-founder of Americans for Gun Safety.

Kessler says the erratic behavior of Virginia Tech killer Seung-Hui Cho was so pronounced, a judge ordered him to a psychiatric facility for evaluation.

"I have a copy of a temporary detention order for Mr. Cho," Kroft remarks. "It was written in 2005. Signed by a judge. And it says that Mr. Cho represents an imminent danger to himself as a result of mentally illness. Should that have been in the computer?"

"That absolutely should have been in the computer," Kessler argues. "I believe what we're seeing is the modern version of a suicide bomber in America, which is, you know, in the past you had someone who was depressed and maybe took their own life. But, now, you're seeing that they're taking lives with them. Now that it's becoming a copycat crime."

There’s no shortage of examples. 60 Minutes first reported on this problem five years ago, not long after Michael McDermott showed up for work at Edgewater Technology in Wakefield, Mass., with a bag full of guns. He then went on a murder rampage. One of the first officers inside the building was Stephen Doherty, who was Wakefield's chief of police. He found seven victims, all dead, and McDermott sitting quietly in an office chair.

"And he had at his feet a 12-gauge shotgun. And cradled very similar near his legs, or knees, was an assault rifle," Doherty remembers.

What was his state of mind?

"He only made one statement: 'I don't speak German,'" Chief Doherty remembers. "That was his only statement."

McDermott had been saying and doing irrational things for 15 years, and had twice been hospitalized in psychiatric wards. Chief Doherty says that should have disqualified him from getting a firearms permit, but he got one anyway from his local police department in Rockland, Mass., 30 miles from Wakefield, where the shootings occurred.

"If someone came in with a mental health history like Michael McDermott's, someone who was repeatedly hospitalized for mental illness, would you have issued him a firearms permit?" Kroft asks Doherty.

"Under the present state of the law, I wouldn't know that because that information is private. I'm not allowed to know that," the police chief replies. "I can't get it."

Massachusetts is one of 28 states that doesn’t supply any information on people with severe mental illness to the FBI database. That was supposed to change after President Reagan and his press secretary, James Brady, were shot and nearly killed by John Hinckley, a man with a history of mental illness.

Congress passed the Brady Bill, which created a system of instant background checks to screen all gun buyers and prevent sales to anyone barred by federal law from owning a firearm. The system relies on an FBI database that is supposed to have the names of fugitives, felons, and people that have been involuntarily committed to a mental hospital.

But Jim Kessler says the system doesn't work when it comes to the mentally ill. "This isn't something that shows up every couple years at Virginia Tech," he says. "I mean, this happens."

Asked if this is a recurring problem, Kessler tells Kroft, "Look, we could be back here two years from now having this exact same conversation."

[wowvirus]

For any of you wanting to see why they should be kept from buying guns read my blog about the last time i got to see my ex-girlfriend and the stalker just released from an institution

[wowvirus]

if any of you want to know why this database is needed read what i went through.

http://blog.myspace.com/brandoncjones

[wowvirus]

if any of you want to know why this database is needed read what i went through.

http://blog.myspace.com/brandoncjones

[woodsie8]

First our hearts and our prayers go out to the families, students and facility at Virginia Tech. I was really upset over your program Armed and Dangerous, as I am a person diagnosed in the 90%u2019s as SPMI (Seriously Persistently Mentally Ill). I am working and am very involved in my community to change the stigma that I have had to endure. Mental illness should not be equated with violence. People with mental illness are more likely to become a victim of a crime than to commit one.

The reality is that people can and do recover from mental illness Stop the myths about mental health issues and know the facts. Your report stated %u201C in the U.S., 1,000 homicides are committed by people with mental illness.%u201D According to Fox news report in New York City, they reported 579 homicides in 2006. The number of 1,000 seems high when it stands alone but not when you start comparing it to the national average. Please help stop this stigma and help encourage people to seek help not punishment. Recovery is possible and why should we be punished for a few years of medical treatment?

After a tragedy like Virginia Tech, people want to %u201Cfix%u201D it. Why don%u2019t you look into the Virginia Mental Health system and see what failed to help Seung-Hui Cho. The system that was to help him failed him, how can they prevent this from happening again? Change that system not target all of the mental ill like we are all criminals waiting to go on a rampage!!!
Shelly Woods

[nielklot]

I don't know where we need to turn on this issue. The majority of shootings are committed by people not diagnosed as needing mental health help. Stigmatizing these issues surely discourages people from seeking help and hurts those who have benefitted from treatment. And a balance has to be struck between involuntary committment and getting help for those who really need it and yet may be too irrational to accept it. I spent two years as a volunteer in a crisis management group (I know I am no expert) and dealt with several cases involving mental health issues and am thoroughly convinced that anyone, including myself could find themselves in need of help at any moment. What connects us to reality might be nothing more than a fine balance of chemicals, and once my balance is off I may not recognize I have a problem. I believe but for the grace of God or the luck of fate go I...(at least for the moment). Still, there are plenty of things in life I am not allowed to do by law for the sake of public safety. I cannot simply get in a commercial airliner and fly it. I can't drive a car unless periodically I prove some capability (however small). However there isn't a constitutional issue involving those questions either. I own two guns and have no obligation to prove capability. If there ever were a question of other's safety I would hope my wife would have the courage and foresight to keep them from me. Something at least to discuss with her.

[frankwarmath]

Regarding the gun ownership priviledges of people with mental illness, apparently those in favor have never firsthand experienced someone with psychosis. Allowing those who have little touch with reality have no business with firearms of any type. As in most things, common sense should prevail and a simple flag in the database should result rather than the full medical records of an individual.

John Warmath

[frankwarmath]

Regarding the gun ownership priviledges of people with mental illness, apparently those in favor have never firsthand experienced someone with psychosis. Allowing those who have little touch with reality have no business with firearms of any type. As in most things, common sense should prevail and a simple flag in the database should result rather than the full medical records of an individual.

John Warmath

[davidbadgley]

P.S. And should anyone think that myself, or the majority of those labeled with that scarlet letter of "mentally ill", are insensitive to the depth of this horrible tragedy and/or that we are not eager to find real solutions, you are so wrong. And, again, let me say, that as far as I am concerned, repealing the 2nd amendment would suit me just fine. But until then stop your unfair and irrational pedjudice toward those you consider "mentally ill". And if you prefer horror look at this adminisrations plans to test every american for mental illness. That is the "Brave New World" we should fear!

[davidbadgley]

Steve, I'd be interested to know if you read the responses to your piece of work, pun intended. One more suggestion. Make a law requiring the "severely mentally ill" to wear a patch, maybe with the letters 'M L' identifying them to all. The true question is whether someone is rational or irrational, and this is a question not answered by whether a person is "mentally ill' or even "severely mentally ill". And Steve, please read my previous posts and tell me if you consider them rational. Your piece did not strike me as such. One more thing Steve, I have been involuntarily committed under ca w&i code 5150 about 3 months ago ( wrongly so, as I made no threat against myself or anyone else) and was told by a psychiatrist that he was going to attempt to keep me longer, telling me he did not consider me dangerous to anyone but that the hospital had not been able to contact someone to find out if I had a home to return to. And my life has been in turmoil ever since. I quess that makes me "severely mentally ill". And let me repeat what I said in one of my posts. Steve, you are a bigot!

[davidbadgley]

This is a response to the comment by "equalrights". What you said is true and gives me some comfort knowing there are people out there who can reason and not just react. I'm sure you may realize that the people who committed those other murders, if found, charged, and convicted, will be on the federal lists. I think a better way to word it would be to suggest all the people not labeled "mentally ill" be put on the list as well. That should be about 300,000,000 people. If you, or anyone, looks up the Bush administrations proposal to test all americans for "mental illness" you'll see where this could be leading to. Please refer to my previous posts. I would look forward to reading such clear thinking in future posts by you or anyone else for that matter.