Signs Were There, Was Security In Place?

Cho Seung-Hui's Peers And Professors Knew He Was Troubled, But Was Va. Tech Prepared?

(CBS/AP)  The professor looked at the sign-in sheet and, where everyone else had written their names, Cho had written a question mark. "Is your name, 'Question mark?' " classmate Julie Poole recalled the professor asking. The young man offered little response.

Cho spent much of that class sitting in the back of the room, wearing a hat and seldom participating. In a small department, Cho distinguished himself for being anonymous. "He didn't reach out to anyone. He never talked," Poole said.

"We just really knew him as the question mark kid," Poole said.

According to Virginia Tech Police Chief Wendell Finchum, in November 2005, Cho also made contact with a female student through telephone calls and in person. The student declined to press charges.

In December 2005, Cho sent instant messages to a second woman. He made no threats, Finchum said, but the student complained. Officers spoke to him at that time. Cho was evaluated by local mental health agency, not connected with the university, after the second incident.

While signs that Cho was a severely troubled young man were detected by some, Thermos said colleges and universities also have to take measures to improve security. Although campus safety has improved over the years, Thermos said it has a long way to go. Five fatal shootings and 50 events have occurred on campuses in the past decade.

"What stopped me dead in my tracks, it's not really the event itself, but the response immediately after the event and some of the assumptions made," he said. "Truth to be told, there are remarkable administrators around the country that are deploying surveillance systems, access control systems, so forth, since the early '90s. On the operational level this school, they have to make decision whether they're going to go to a full-blown professional police operation response or outsource this response to a state, city or county operations for that."

But many people wonder just what Cho was doing in the two hours between the first shooting and the second and more was not done to alert the entire university community.

The first attack happened at a dormitory, where two people were killed, then inside a classroom building, where 31 people, including Cho, died after being locked inside, Virginia State Police said. Cho committed suicide; two handguns — a 9 mm and a .22-caliber — were found in the classroom building.

Newman says she believes that during that time between the shootings, Cho was preparing for his onslaught.

"I think he was assembling the materials he needed. I think he was writing his letter," she said. "I think he was whipping himself to a fury and I think he probably realized he just stepped way over a line by shooting two people already and was putting himself in a position where either he would be killed by someone else or he would kill himself. But he would go out in a blaze of glory, which is, sadly, what most school shooters are looking to do. They want to be defined as anti-heroes, not as wimps who disappear from the scene. It's a sad comment on the culture that we live in that that seems more satisfying to them."

During that time, if he had been running security at Virginia Tech, Thermos said he would have shut down the campus and would have been checking surveillance videotapes to see who was where. He would also use whatever media was at his disposal to alert people, be it a mass email or a mass broadcast.

"Then I will decide whether or not this was a domestic event or whether or not I'm going to have to have a meeting with the president and what information I'm going to release to the media," he said.

Virginia Tech alerted the students about the first shooting via email and Thermos said there are about five or six options they could have used.

"Certainly the reaction is what stopped me," he said. "I'm a parent of two kids in college today. That's why it was a double-hit for me personally."

But one of the things that work against colleges in these kinds of catastrophes is the culture of openness that most universities promote. Thermos said that even though society is open, we still come home to "our gated communities for our safety at night." It might be time to tighten security on campus.

"When we're talking about universities, we're talking about an environment where anyone can come anytime they want, and this university had warning for a year," he said.

Parents should ask questions about the measures a university will take if a catastrophe like this occurs because there is no way these kind of threats can be completely prevented.

"Visit the campus and find out how security operations works," he said. "We have incidents back to the 1990s when entire campuses were designed, walking into the quad, through a central station, to prove to the parents your due diligence and your capability to protect kids."

Read an excerpt of Newman's book here.

[booyaw_77]

To even speculate on a "we shoulda known" type thing is lunacy. Nobody could have known that ANYBODY at the university level would have done this. Nobody. Nobody could have speculated on it. Nobody could have done anything different. This is not a movie where you get to write the script. This is real life. And real life is different. Even from 20/20 hindsight.

Nobody could have known what this guy was gonna do.

[booyaw_77]

Dear ********** and Bigcanoe,

Don't forget about that all time big daddy of them all: The Disabilities Act.

[toolmangler-2009]

Homeland Security will 'morph' into a Big Brother type outfit. Everybody will be required to have RFIDs implanted and each child that is born will be implanted in the hospital and may well be the first to receive RFID implants, ostensibly to protect them from being stolen from the hospitals. To protect society from V Tech type killers everybody will have to undergo phsych evaluation. You will be watched from birth til death with any variation dealt with or punished. Gene-splicing will assure all abnormal variants to be eliminated from the gene-pool. We will become a clones of the chosen examples of well behaved people. If you don't think I am right, do some reading (George Orwell, (Isaiah, Daniel Revelation from the Christian Bible), Wag The Dog, and many other books (prophetic and Deductive Reasoning). The Stage is set and the curtain is moving, open your eyes people the wolf is at the door. OOOppss wait a minute some one is at the do...

[zipperhead60]

Bigcanoe

Did you know that the "Privacy Law" for medical conditions you mentioned, is just 10 years old now. Revamped from a previous law protecting patient rights? Well again, that law, like thousands of other laws throughout history have been "brought up to times". Modernized. Revised. And all I'm suggesting is not changing constitual history here. I'm tossing out the idea that politicians (with this latest in a long line of senseless school shootings) should take a long hard look at bring this "Privacy Law" for outlaws as you say, into the modern times. Sure it won't be a perfect world if one law is updated for society, but what else do you do, issue everyone in the USA a gun ....and scream out - Happy hunting, boys!!!
I'd like to think our politicians can do something to stem this stream of senseless crimes in schools.

[sasi1-2009]

Cho Seung-hui needed help, and never received any. This is something that needs to be investigated.

There is no such thing as total safety. No law can guarantee anyone protection from someone determined to kill them. The only change in law that might help would be to allow schools and/or businesses to require psychiatric treatment for students/workers deemed to be acting in a bizarre manner. Society is largely to blame for the mess we find our country in today. Too many parents are having children they don't want & do not take care of. Too many children are being abused either physically, mentally or sexually. Too many parents are drug addicts & have no knowledge of how to be parents. The ridiculous 'war on drugs' has cost billions, and done nothing. I feel the druggies are people who cannot face responsibility, respectability, criticism, or life in general. What does this say to their children? Worst of all are the schools and teachers who push drugs such as ritalin so they won't have to deal with any form of conflict. Too many schools today are encouraging kids to quit school (again to avoid conflict). All drugs being dispensed to children today need to be thoroughly scrutinized. Wonder if Cho was on medication?

[bigcanoe2]

**********

Quote: "Sorry, but privacy laws to the generaly public .... sure I agree with. Privacy laws that protect people like this gunman? You don't have my sympathy."

Either you agree with the privacy laws as you catagorically say that you do, or you don't agree with them. But the law protects everyone, even people like this gunman.

I am simply pointing out here that another law, called the "Law of Unintended Consequences," often comes into the picture when any new law is passed.

And I am pointing out that laws are not going to solve the problem of mad men killing others. The law just can NOT accomplish that because by definition, outlaws do not obey the law. This guy started out an outlaw and he died an outlaw. Laws do NOT stop outlaws.

[zipperhead60]

My point being, laws get changed all the time. Revamped, revised, updated. Times change and laws need to change with them. My point exactly is Privacy laws NEED to be revamped, revised, updated; not for medical conditions or penny annie crimes but for things like happened at V Tech. Columbine, Pennsylvania and others. Columbine was 8 years ago!!! ands its still so easy to obtain a gun, or 2.
Just taking one problem here at a time Bigcanoe2 ... wink ... we can work on all the other one's you mentioned after we fix this one. Priorities , ya know?
: )

[zipperhead60]

So Bigcanoe2 why don't you tell the 33 families that changing a "privacy law" for the criminally insane, just won't do. It would just be one more itty bitty law, we all would have to "live" with.

Sorry, but privacy laws to the generaly public .... sure I agree with. Privacy laws that protect people like this gunman? You don't have my sympathy.

[bigcanoe2]

Dear **********

Have you heard about Federal PRIVACY LAWS? Have you heard that sensitive medical information like mental status is protected by Federal Law? Did you know it would have been a Federal Crime for the gun dealer to know that? Did you know he is forbiden by law from knowing that? If not, WHY don't you know these things? You can't go to the doctors office and look at anyones medical records unless they are YOURS and ONLY yours. If you do, you have commited a crime.

So that little item is why he was able to buy guns with his record. Oh, and a little didja know, these news people reporting this medical information are all comitting crimes because they too are prohibited from doing that. So much for laws huh? But maybe if we outlaw guns they will obey that law? Yep. Just one more law is all we need. We are one law short of fixing the problem once and for all times.

Hey!! While you are at it, will you also outlaw drunk driving please? Drunks kill a lot of good people every year. But it's not their fault, it's the booze. Maybe we should outlaw booze? Opps. I think we tried that already and it didn't work either.

[zipperhead60]

Enraged in Virginia!!
So how the **** is it, that someone who had a known previous episode with 2 female co-eds, was either voluntarily or involuntarily (depending on police statements) committed to a psychiatric center for assesment. Deemed suicidal by a friend. The subject of a professors scrutiny because of bizarre papers written in her classes causing her to be deeply worried by his behaviour at VTech.
How is it, someone with 5 past experiences in the last year and a half, can be permitted to buy 2 handguns!!!
Does the gun lobby have than hands THAT DEEP in the pockets of government; that stricter guide lines for purchasing a gun can be that F'ing easy
!!!!!
33 dead
33 innocent youth
33 families destroyed
Wake up Virginia government, be agressive, learn from this, if nothing else, draft new gun laws. Firm, concrete, sound gun laws. Don't let these young people's life's be for naught.

[barbaraf4]

When the Professors and students began to suspect (even fear) that this man was a menice, why did they not report him to the INS and get his visa revoked?

Surely we have the right to send home someone who is dangerous. If not, then why not?

[bigcanoe2]

Virginia law states that holders of concealed carry permits are allowed to carry on university campuses (http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/commentary/wb/80510 ). In the name of "safety", certain persons lobbied successfully to prevent the carrying of firearms on Virginia Tech's
campus. The massacre was the direct result of that lobbying. If only one professor or one student had access to a firearm while this mad man was systematically executing his completely defenseless victims, he could have been stopped just like the principal in Pearl, Mississippi who stopped a gunman shooting students there.

Ironically, in 2006 the Virginia General Assembly defeated legislation which could have prevented Cho Seung-Hui from murdering
32 students. HB 1572 would have enabled lawful Virginians with concealed handgun permits to protect themselves and others on college
campuses within the state.

Said Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker in 2006: "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's
actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

Where is this guy and what does he say today?

[heavenorvega]

My question is: Why didnt VTech kick him out of school after stalking two female students and starting a fire in his dorm? Obviously, he scared many people-english dept, students ect...and I realize the police couldnt do anything (though they could of pressed charges over the fire setting--that may be a felony-and if he was a felon he would of never been able to buy the guns)mental health laws are very outdated in VA and very "liberal" meaning mentally ill and dangerous people are let go, but with all that being said I believe VTech had a moral obligation to kick him out of school--and to protect its students that are hard working, paying and have the right to go to a safe school...they were not doing Cho a favor--I cant believe he would of been able to get a job in the real world with his odd behaviour...

[love1022]

this guy was a *** *** he should go to hell

[trace1206]

killtheliars at 04:05 PM : Apr 18, 2007
did you miss the part on the news when they explained that he chained the doors?

[docadams3]

The best chance they had to stop this guy was his own talk of suicide. That's the one legal basis for an involuntary commitment that is clearly apparent in this case; the stalking is a possibility, depending on the evidence. Everyone needs to know that any talk of suicide should ALWAYS, ALWAYS be taken as a real threat. Through their ignorance, the classmates dropped the ball. Let's make sure everyone knows that talk of suicide is a life threatening behavior and should be reported immediately to authorities who can take action. NEVER disregard suicidal comments.

[xxhumanxx]

The way life is today; people worshiping gods, musicians, artists, actors/actresses, animals, even little boys with tails, what do you suspect? People walkinkg around loving each other not going on rampages? With all the worship there's no room left to love oneself and if you do, you have confidence well that's narcissism and that means rehabilitation and you need fix. "Oh honey you love yourself i think your sick."
Not only worship but theres a war going on that some peopole advocate and agree with, and i'm sure not all those people agree with the shooting being a good thing. I mean killing is killing, when it comes down to it, the war is just as bad as this. Isn't both wrong? Maybe i'm odd for thinking that, but to me it's all wrong.

[killtheliars]

what I don't understand is why the police did not rush the building. In the video they keep playing on the news you hear rapid gun fire. Later at the press conference the officer speaking atated that officers did not shoot thier guns. Therefore while they stood behind trees and cars outside more and more kids were shot. Don't get me wrong, I know a few cops and they don't want to die anymore then anyone else, but they chose the job.
Also since he was not a legal citizen i cannot understand why he was not deported once he started writing all the voilent essays.

[jetlizhan]

if someone is hellbent on this kind of carnage and destruction, he will succeed. evil usually finds a way. the nicest looking man or woman can be walking down the sidewalk and have a gun under their shirt. . .and blow away anyone they wish. so let's don't be pointing the finger at any one specific person(s). i thought that all of the students, campus-wide, should've known sooner about the dorm killings - but if you read all the stories, the law enforcement people were following a very bad lead and lost precious time and most of all, precious students.

[frb01]

Do you lock down every town that has a population of 25,000 every time there is a shooting? And I have had the personal experience of dealing with employees who appeared to be over the edge, believe me I was concerned about their mental state. In his case, maybe someone should have intervened and maybe they did. But mental illness is difficult to treat, in spite of the advances in the past two decades and sometimes the side effects can be worse. The comedians and morning DJ's laughed at the astronaut who went off the deep end a couple months ago, she could have ended her path in a fatality. Wonder who many of those comics are laughing in the case of this person, who obviously had deep issues?