Signs Were There, Was Security In Place?

Cho Seung-Hui's Peers And Professors Knew He Was Troubled, But Was Va. Tech Prepared?

(CBS/AP)  Almost as soon as the shooting stopped at Virginia Tech, the questions began. How could such a tragic crime have happened in a place where parents believed their children were safe?

Former professor of criminology Adam Thermos has made campus security his business — and his passion — for almost 20 years. He said it's difficult to judge the Virginia Tech administration until the investigation is completed.

"The reality is, a lot of the universities today are going to be looking into their mission statement and whether or not they can really fulfill this mission of providing a safe environment for their students," Thermos, who founded the campus security consulting group Strategic Technology Group, told The Early Show co-anchor Russ Mitchell.

Details on the life of 23-year-old Cho Seung-Hui, the student responsible for the deadliest shooting rampage in modern U.S. history, are slowly emerging, as well as indications that there were warning signs of what was to come.

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Photos: Virginia Tech Mourns

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Cho, a senior majoring in English, arrived in the U.S. as boy from South Korea in 1992 and was raised in suburban Washington, D.C., officials said. He was living on campus in a different dorm from the one where Monday's bloodbath began.

Police and university officials offered no clues as to exactly what set him off.

"He was a loner, and we're having difficulty finding information about him," school spokesman Larry Hincker said.

But Katherine Newman, a professor of sociology at Princeton University, said most school shooters are rarely loners, but rather failed joiners.

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Photos: Virginia Tech Tragedy

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"People who continuously try to join social groups and are rebuffed," said Newman, the author of "Rampage: The Social Roots of School Shootings." "And their daily experience is one of rejection and friction."

Professor Carolyn Rude, chairwoman of the university's English department, said she did not personally know the gunman. But she said she spoke with Lucinda Roy, the department's director of creative writing, who had Cho in one of her classes and described him as "troubled."

"There was some concern about him," Rude said. "Sometimes, in creative writing, people reveal things and you never know if it's creative or if they're describing things, if they're imagining things or just how real it might be. But we're all alert to not ignore things like this."

She said Cho was referred to the counseling service, but she said she did not know when, or what the outcome was. Rude refused to release any of his writings or his grades, citing privacy laws.

The Chicago Tribune reported on its Web site that he left a note in his dorm room that included a rambling list of grievances. Citing unidentified sources, the Tribune said he had recently shown troubling signs, including setting a fire in a dorm room and stalking some women.

ABC, citing law enforcement sources, reported that the note, which is several pages long, explains Cho's actions and says, "You caused me to do this."

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Click here for an interactive gallery of the victims.

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"Some of the other shooters I studied also wrote murderous essays, which they turned in to teachers, which shocked them," Newman said. "Virginia Tech was far more proactive than most schools I've studied. The other similarity I find eerie is he's the younger brother of a successful older sister — graduated from Princeton. One of the other cases I studied was very much like this. A younger brother who wasn't as successful as his valedictorian sister. In a high-achieving society, that can be difficult burden."

Newman said that most school shooters give warning signs, sometimes as much as nine months in advance. She thinks Cho was giving off those signals because many students at Virginia Tech were not shocked about who the shooter turned out to be. Nonetheless, Newman said it is difficult to discern the difference between someone who is depressed and someone who is going to snap and do something awful.

"All of us know many people who suffer from depression," she said. "Very few of them are going to become killers. So I think it's difficult to identify them in advance. It's much more likely that we can stop these events by listening to the warning signals that they send off and being alert to them. I think that's actually what Virginia Tech did do but a dedicated killer is difficult to stop."

Investigators believe Cho at some point had been taking medication for depression, the Tribune reported.

Classmates said that on the first day of an introduction to British literature class last year, the 30 or so English students went around and introduced themselves. When it was Cho's turn, he didn't speak.

[johnshaft4]

As new details emerge, it is obvious that VA Tech staff and campous police KNEW what they were dealing after this known psychopath comitted the first AM shootings. There were witnesses plus video cameras identifying the killer. The cause of the additional murders lies squarely on campus police. It constitutes EXTREME gross negligence on the part of campus police that once they knew WHO and WHAT was on the loose that the campus should have been locked down and back up called until this nut job was in custody. For two hours this mass murderer had free reign of the campus. Don't blame guns for the malfeasance of VA Tech police.
Let the lawsuits begin flying...

[jessiebuffy-2009]

A quote from someone who was interviewed on the Early Show by someone named Kaine said the following:

%u201CI'm satisfied that the university did everything they felt they needed to do with the heat on the table,%u201D Kaine told CBS' %u201CThe Early Show%u201D on Wednesday. %u201CNobody has this in the playbook, there's no manual on this.%u201D

My comments? His excuse for not locking down the campus is there is "no manual on this"? How about common sense and half a brain to lock down the campus and call the police when the first shooting took place. How many children and teachers have to die at schools because of inept morons like this one. I am angry that after Columbine and other shootings there is no process in place to protect people. I am a parent and my son was a student at Granite Hills High School in El Cajon, CA. I remember receiving the phone call from him that a kid with a gun was shooting people at his school and that he fled for his life to get away from the gunman. What is wrong with our society that obvious warnings of psycho nut cases are overlooked so that more and more tragedies like this happen? A professor warned the school administrators about this psycho and all they did was remove him from her class.

[bizzzz-2009]

To Jessiebutterfly,
It is hangwringers like you that are the reason that something like this will definitely happen again.
The whole "no one is to blame" mentality is a symptom of a society's fear of hurting someone's feelings when they confront them on the fact they blew it.
People in this country hate confrontation. Some people might say "there was no way we could have predicted or prevented this from happening..."
REALLY? 33 people dead at the hands of one person...over the span of several hours...with shootings hours apart from each other? On top of the fact that he had a documented history of mental illness?
No cameras, no loud (warning) speaker system on campus. 33 deaths couldn't be prevented? I find that hard believe.
I see Charles Steger, the President of Virgina Tech, got a standing ovation yesterday. Why? I don't think anyone should get a standing ovation before an investigation in complete.
You watch, more standing ovations will be given, time will pass, and nothing will be done about it. Just like the levees in New Orleans, waiting for another hurricane.

[frb01]

Do you lock down every town that has a population of 25,000 every time there is a shooting? And I have had the personal experience of dealing with employees who appeared to be over the edge, believe me I was concerned about their mental state. In his case, maybe someone should have intervened and maybe they did. But mental illness is difficult to treat, in spite of the advances in the past two decades and sometimes the side effects can be worse. The comedians and morning DJ's laughed at the astronaut who went off the deep end a couple months ago, she could have ended her path in a fatality. Wonder who many of those comics are laughing in the case of this person, who obviously had deep issues?

[jetlizhan]

if someone is hellbent on this kind of carnage and destruction, he will succeed. evil usually finds a way. the nicest looking man or woman can be walking down the sidewalk and have a gun under their shirt. . .and blow away anyone they wish. so let's don't be pointing the finger at any one specific person(s). i thought that all of the students, campus-wide, should've known sooner about the dorm killings - but if you read all the stories, the law enforcement people were following a very bad lead and lost precious time and most of all, precious students.

[killtheliars]

what I don't understand is why the police did not rush the building. In the video they keep playing on the news you hear rapid gun fire. Later at the press conference the officer speaking atated that officers did not shoot thier guns. Therefore while they stood behind trees and cars outside more and more kids were shot. Don't get me wrong, I know a few cops and they don't want to die anymore then anyone else, but they chose the job.
Also since he was not a legal citizen i cannot understand why he was not deported once he started writing all the voilent essays.

[xxhumanxx]

The way life is today; people worshiping gods, musicians, artists, actors/actresses, animals, even little boys with tails, what do you suspect? People walkinkg around loving each other not going on rampages? With all the worship there's no room left to love oneself and if you do, you have confidence well that's narcissism and that means rehabilitation and you need fix. "Oh honey you love yourself i think your sick."
Not only worship but theres a war going on that some peopole advocate and agree with, and i'm sure not all those people agree with the shooting being a good thing. I mean killing is killing, when it comes down to it, the war is just as bad as this. Isn't both wrong? Maybe i'm odd for thinking that, but to me it's all wrong.

[docadams3]

The best chance they had to stop this guy was his own talk of suicide. That's the one legal basis for an involuntary commitment that is clearly apparent in this case; the stalking is a possibility, depending on the evidence. Everyone needs to know that any talk of suicide should ALWAYS, ALWAYS be taken as a real threat. Through their ignorance, the classmates dropped the ball. Let's make sure everyone knows that talk of suicide is a life threatening behavior and should be reported immediately to authorities who can take action. NEVER disregard suicidal comments.

[trace1206]

killtheliars at 04:05 PM : Apr 18, 2007
did you miss the part on the news when they explained that he chained the doors?

[love1022]

this guy was a *** *** he should go to hell

[heavenorvega]

My question is: Why didnt VTech kick him out of school after stalking two female students and starting a fire in his dorm? Obviously, he scared many people-english dept, students ect...and I realize the police couldnt do anything (though they could of pressed charges over the fire setting--that may be a felony-and if he was a felon he would of never been able to buy the guns)mental health laws are very outdated in VA and very "liberal" meaning mentally ill and dangerous people are let go, but with all that being said I believe VTech had a moral obligation to kick him out of school--and to protect its students that are hard working, paying and have the right to go to a safe school...they were not doing Cho a favor--I cant believe he would of been able to get a job in the real world with his odd behaviour...

[bigcanoe2]

Virginia law states that holders of concealed carry permits are allowed to carry on university campuses (http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/commentary/wb/80510 ). In the name of "safety", certain persons lobbied successfully to prevent the carrying of firearms on Virginia Tech's
campus. The massacre was the direct result of that lobbying. If only one professor or one student had access to a firearm while this mad man was systematically executing his completely defenseless victims, he could have been stopped just like the principal in Pearl, Mississippi who stopped a gunman shooting students there.

Ironically, in 2006 the Virginia General Assembly defeated legislation which could have prevented Cho Seung-Hui from murdering
32 students. HB 1572 would have enabled lawful Virginians with concealed handgun permits to protect themselves and others on college
campuses within the state.

Said Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker in 2006: "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's
actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

Where is this guy and what does he say today?

[barbaraf4]

When the Professors and students began to suspect (even fear) that this man was a menice, why did they not report him to the INS and get his visa revoked?

Surely we have the right to send home someone who is dangerous. If not, then why not?

[zipperhead60]

Enraged in Virginia!!
So how the **** is it, that someone who had a known previous episode with 2 female co-eds, was either voluntarily or involuntarily (depending on police statements) committed to a psychiatric center for assesment. Deemed suicidal by a friend. The subject of a professors scrutiny because of bizarre papers written in her classes causing her to be deeply worried by his behaviour at VTech.
How is it, someone with 5 past experiences in the last year and a half, can be permitted to buy 2 handguns!!!
Does the gun lobby have than hands THAT DEEP in the pockets of government; that stricter guide lines for purchasing a gun can be that F'ing easy
!!!!!
33 dead
33 innocent youth
33 families destroyed
Wake up Virginia government, be agressive, learn from this, if nothing else, draft new gun laws. Firm, concrete, sound gun laws. Don't let these young people's life's be for naught.

[bigcanoe2]

Dear **********

Have you heard about Federal PRIVACY LAWS? Have you heard that sensitive medical information like mental status is protected by Federal Law? Did you know it would have been a Federal Crime for the gun dealer to know that? Did you know he is forbiden by law from knowing that? If not, WHY don't you know these things? You can't go to the doctors office and look at anyones medical records unless they are YOURS and ONLY yours. If you do, you have commited a crime.

So that little item is why he was able to buy guns with his record. Oh, and a little didja know, these news people reporting this medical information are all comitting crimes because they too are prohibited from doing that. So much for laws huh? But maybe if we outlaw guns they will obey that law? Yep. Just one more law is all we need. We are one law short of fixing the problem once and for all times.

Hey!! While you are at it, will you also outlaw drunk driving please? Drunks kill a lot of good people every year. But it's not their fault, it's the booze. Maybe we should outlaw booze? Opps. I think we tried that already and it didn't work either.

[zipperhead60]

So Bigcanoe2 why don't you tell the 33 families that changing a "privacy law" for the criminally insane, just won't do. It would just be one more itty bitty law, we all would have to "live" with.

Sorry, but privacy laws to the generaly public .... sure I agree with. Privacy laws that protect people like this gunman? You don't have my sympathy.

[zipperhead60]

My point being, laws get changed all the time. Revamped, revised, updated. Times change and laws need to change with them. My point exactly is Privacy laws NEED to be revamped, revised, updated; not for medical conditions or penny annie crimes but for things like happened at V Tech. Columbine, Pennsylvania and others. Columbine was 8 years ago!!! ands its still so easy to obtain a gun, or 2.
Just taking one problem here at a time Bigcanoe2 ... wink ... we can work on all the other one's you mentioned after we fix this one. Priorities , ya know?
: )

[bigcanoe2]

**********

Quote: "Sorry, but privacy laws to the generaly public .... sure I agree with. Privacy laws that protect people like this gunman? You don't have my sympathy."

Either you agree with the privacy laws as you catagorically say that you do, or you don't agree with them. But the law protects everyone, even people like this gunman.

I am simply pointing out here that another law, called the "Law of Unintended Consequences," often comes into the picture when any new law is passed.

And I am pointing out that laws are not going to solve the problem of mad men killing others. The law just can NOT accomplish that because by definition, outlaws do not obey the law. This guy started out an outlaw and he died an outlaw. Laws do NOT stop outlaws.

[sasi1-2009]

Cho Seung-hui needed help, and never received any. This is something that needs to be investigated.

There is no such thing as total safety. No law can guarantee anyone protection from someone determined to kill them. The only change in law that might help would be to allow schools and/or businesses to require psychiatric treatment for students/workers deemed to be acting in a bizarre manner. Society is largely to blame for the mess we find our country in today. Too many parents are having children they don't want & do not take care of. Too many children are being abused either physically, mentally or sexually. Too many parents are drug addicts & have no knowledge of how to be parents. The ridiculous 'war on drugs' has cost billions, and done nothing. I feel the druggies are people who cannot face responsibility, respectability, criticism, or life in general. What does this say to their children? Worst of all are the schools and teachers who push drugs such as ritalin so they won't have to deal with any form of conflict. Too many schools today are encouraging kids to quit school (again to avoid conflict). All drugs being dispensed to children today need to be thoroughly scrutinized. Wonder if Cho was on medication?

[zipperhead60]

Bigcanoe

Did you know that the "Privacy Law" for medical conditions you mentioned, is just 10 years old now. Revamped from a previous law protecting patient rights? Well again, that law, like thousands of other laws throughout history have been "brought up to times". Modernized. Revised. And all I'm suggesting is not changing constitual history here. I'm tossing out the idea that politicians (with this latest in a long line of senseless school shootings) should take a long hard look at bring this "Privacy Law" for outlaws as you say, into the modern times. Sure it won't be a perfect world if one law is updated for society, but what else do you do, issue everyone in the USA a gun ....and scream out - Happy hunting, boys!!!
I'd like to think our politicians can do something to stem this stream of senseless crimes in schools.

[toolmangler-2009]

Homeland Security will 'morph' into a Big Brother type outfit. Everybody will be required to have RFIDs implanted and each child that is born will be implanted in the hospital and may well be the first to receive RFID implants, ostensibly to protect them from being stolen from the hospitals. To protect society from V Tech type killers everybody will have to undergo phsych evaluation. You will be watched from birth til death with any variation dealt with or punished. Gene-splicing will assure all abnormal variants to be eliminated from the gene-pool. We will become a clones of the chosen examples of well behaved people. If you don't think I am right, do some reading (George Orwell, (Isaiah, Daniel Revelation from the Christian Bible), Wag The Dog, and many other books (prophetic and Deductive Reasoning). The Stage is set and the curtain is moving, open your eyes people the wolf is at the door. OOOppss wait a minute some one is at the do...

[booyaw_77]

Dear ********** and Bigcanoe,

Don't forget about that all time big daddy of them all: The Disabilities Act.

[booyaw_77]

To even speculate on a "we shoulda known" type thing is lunacy. Nobody could have known that ANYBODY at the university level would have done this. Nobody. Nobody could have speculated on it. Nobody could have done anything different. This is not a movie where you get to write the script. This is real life. And real life is different. Even from 20/20 hindsight.

Nobody could have known what this guy was gonna do.