More Gun Control? Don't Hold Your Breath

Stricter Gun Control Laws After Virginia Tech Shooting Would Be A Hard Sell

(AP)  After the worst mass shooting in U.S. history, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid cautioned Tuesday against a "rush to judgment" on stricter gun control.

A leading House supporter of restrictions on firearms conceded passage of legislation would be difficult.

"I think we ought to be thinking about the families and the victims and not speculate about future legislative battles that might lie ahead," said Reid, a view expressed by other Democratic leaders the day after the shootings that left 33 dead on the campus of Virginia Tech.

Democrats traditionally have been in the forefront of efforts to pass gun control legislation, but there is a widespread perception among political strategists that the issue has been a loser in recent campaigns. It was notably absent from the agenda Reid and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi unveiled earlier this year when the party took control of the House and Senate for the first time in more than a decade.

In the wake of the Virginia Tech shootings, a few Democrats renewed the call for gun control legislation, and more are expected to join them.

"I believe this will reignite the dormant effort to pass commonsense gun regulations in this nation," said Sen. Dianne Feinstein, a California Democrat who was a leader in the failed drive to renew a ban on certain types of assault weapons that expired in 2004.

Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., was one of very few lawmakers to refer on gun control in the early hours after the shootings. "There will be time to debate the steps needed to overt such tragedies," he said on Monday, "but today, our thoughts and prayers go to their families."

By coincidence, Kennedy and Rep. Xavier Becerra, D-Calif., are scheduled to attend a demonstration Friday to draw attention to microstamping, a procedure by which serial numbers are placed on ammunition casings. The goal is to allow police and other investigators to quickly track ammunition to the gun that fired it.

The two lawmakers support legislation to require microstamping for all guns manufactured after 2009, and aides to both said they planned to go ahead with the demonstration.

Overall, though, said Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, D-N.Y., "It is a tough sell" to pass gun control legislation. Neither Reid nor House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md., seemed eager to predict Democrats would lead a drive to toughen existing laws.

Less than a month ago, Pelosi and other Democratic leaders abruptly pulled legislation to give the District of Columbia voting representation in the House. Republicans were using the issue to try to force a vote on repeal of the capital's handgun ban, and Democrats feared it would pass.

Hoyer told reporters he thought and hoped the shootings at Virginia Tech would make it harder for Republicans to prevail when the voting rights bill returns to the House floor later this week.

He refused to be drawn into a discussion of the longer-term political consequences of the shooting, saying, "All I am saying is there will be a debate. I am not going to enter into the debate today."

Not all lawmakers were as reticent.

Sen. Larry Craig, R-Idaho, one of Congress' most persistent advocates of gun rights, noted that the student who police say was the shooter at Virginia Tech had brought a weapon onto campus in violation of restrictions. He said he doubted a law could be passed that would protect "any of us when somebody who is mentally deranged decides to do this."

One law enforcement official has said that the gunman's backpack contained a receipt for a March purchase of a Glock 9 mm pistol. The gunman held a green card, meaning he was a legal, permanent resident, federal officials said. That meant he was eligible to buy a handgun unless he had been convicted of a felony.

Democrats have grown less supportive of gun control legislation as a party in the past decade.

After the shootings at Columbine High School in Colorado, then-Vice President Al Gore cast a tie-breaking vote in the Senate on legislation to reduce the availability of certain firearms. He and other gun control advocates claimed victory, but many strategists believe the vote hurt him in the 2000 presidential election.

Gun control tends to win favor among suburban voters, but it often stirs opposition in less heavily populated areas

So far this year, there has been little evidence that Democrats feel otherwise after winning control of the House by picking up seats last fall in parts of Indiana, Ohio, Texas, Arizona and elsewhere where hunting is popular.

[randalds]

One of the worst single day killings in California history happen on July 16, 2003 when 10 people were killed and more then 60 injured. The gun involved? A 1992 Buick driven by an 86 year old. the point is that these things happen no matter what we try to anticipate and they'll continue to. The shooter in Virgina had a clean history and would not have been denied a gun permit even in harsh gun control districts. Even if he had all he had to do was to go to his local used car lot and buy a Buick and do the same job.

[nyckate]

Of one thing there is no doubt - if the killer hadn't so easily been able to purchase not one but two weapons he wouldn't have been able to kill 31 people.

For all the blah blah blah Right to own guns blather from the NRA - the fact is that there are too many ways for people who shouldn't have a gun to get one -- the NRA stand strong with Drug Dealing Gang Bangers Scum - hand-in-hand they fight for the 'right' for each other to purchase guns with little or no control.

That's right NRA members, let's not cover-up any longer who you are closely associated with - Murderers, Cop Killers, Drug Dealers and Gang Bangers. Way to go.

[AgentGGG]

While many will discuss gun control issues, banning guns will not restrict their availability. Even declaring the campus a gun-free zone, which should be enforced, will not stop gunmen or restrict the carnage they can perpetrate.

I respectfully submit that providing a gun (or other means of self-protection) behind a safety glass, much like a fire-alarm, in each classroom is an option to consider. This kind of safety gun is not available except for an emergency. With modern technology, there could be electronic monitoring to immediately detect use/misuse. Students could be offered instruction on how to react in such situations and to use the weapon safely.

Unfortunately, if we accept the fact that guns are widespread in our society, then we have to plan effective countermeasures and prevention strategies. Of course, counseling and early detection of dangerous behavior should be vigorously promoted.

[agnim]

MORE GUNS!

MORE GUNS AND AMMO!

MORE GUNS AND AMMO AND BEER!

The NRA and lunatic leaders in states and in Washington want you to have MORE GUNS so that you CAN KILL OFTEN AND KILL PLENTY!

Strange that in a GUN NUT State only one GUN NUT was armed! What are the odds? LOL

[nyckate]

RandalDS - stop being a donkey's behind - fact is if he hadn't gotten his hand on these weapons he wouldn't have been able to kill. Too lax laws and no arrests of illegal gun dealers is the problem - I could care less if you want a gun - just you do it legally and with stricter purchasing regs and that you NOT be allowed to buy it out behind the gun show from some moron's truck.

[agnim]

"While many will discuss gun control issues, banning guns will not restrict their availability. Even declaring the campus a gun-free zone, which should be enforced, will not stop gunmen or restrict the carnage they can perpetrate.
Posted by AgentG1967 at 06:19 PM : Apr 17, 2007"

I bet you are one of the GUN NUTS? LOL

Gun control is meant to MINIMIZE GUN DEATHS/INJURIES, and can only mean to MINIMIZE GUN DEATHS/INJURIES!

And when and if instituted, gun control DOES MINIMIZE GUN DEATHS/INJURY!

GUN NUTS 'reason' like f@ggots; because both are mentally mixed up creatures and are clueless about logics.

[nyckate]

AgentG1967 - banning guns?? oh come on now - aren't you sick and tired of dragging out that old sawhorse-- BETTER, STRICTER regulations is NOT banning guns - I am sick and tired of the NRA crowd trying to make out that I'm trying to take your gun away from you lot - I just want stronger laws and enforcement and I want states to go after gun dealers who sell illegally or outside the law.

This lie that everyone is out to take your guns away from you is foolish - its not about banning guns - its about making sure that murderers don't get them

The next time you cheer on the NRA realize that here in NYC the drug dealers are cheering with ya.

[lawandorder6]

Take your guns and stick them. We don't need guns and we dont need the NRA.

[agnim]

"All non-citizens should not be allowed to purchase firearms or ammunition. This guy had a green card, which should have prevented him from making the purchase.
Posted by veteran71 at 06:09 PM : Apr 17, 2007"

Even people with 'green cards' can serve in the military. As veterans, who will deny them access to guns then?

Another GUN NUT who can't think straight.
As long as guns are plentiful and GUN NUTS are pushing gun ownership, guns WILL BE MADE AVAILABLE!

[randalds]

RandalDS - stop being a donkey's behind - fact is if he hadn't gotten his hand on these weapons he wouldn't have been able to kill. Too lax laws and no arrests of illegal gun dealers is the problem - I could care less if you want a gun - just you do it legally and with stricter purchasing regs and that you NOT be allowed to buy it out behind the gun show from some moron's truck.
Posted by NYCKATE at 06:24 PM : Apr 17, 2007

He bought the guns legally from a licensed gun dealer, not from the back of any one's pick up truck. While I to disagree with much of the NRA and their cr*ap, I am still a strong supporter of the right to own guns because they're needed to defend ourselves from out of control governments like we have now. The fact still remains that he could have killed just as many people without a gun, it just would have taken a few minutes longer. This is not a problem with gun control or that gun control can solve. The man was crazy and was going to kill a lot of people if he had a gun or not.

[nyckate]

It should be noted that the Roanoak gun dealer has already been tied to sale of guns that were used in a series of crimes -- that's right - criminals went in, purchased the guns and then left and robbed and murdered people -- cause even the slimiest of the slime are thanks to teh NRA able to easily purchase guns.

[agnim]

"Report: USA Korean War-Era Massacre Was Policy"

And a Korean reincarnated to return American karma at Virgina Tech, by massacred Americans as Americans massacred Koreans previously -- SHOOTING THEM LIKE SITTING DUCKS!
And come to think of it, those students were sitting like ducks too. LOL

[rheola-2009]

I shall ask on this board, a question I have asked elsewhere, and have found that the pro gun people are a little shy on answering it.

Maybe someone here will have the courage of their convictions to answer it.

There are approx 30,000 gun related deaths in the U.S. each year.
There are approx 300,000 cases of mental illness reported each year in the U.S.

Can any one pro gun person or otherwise,guarantee that they will not become one of those 300,000 cases of mental illness, rsulting in the death of an innocent person.

[nyckate]

Agnim - yeah - go figure - the NRA crowd must be extremely slow -- you'd think they'd have caught on by now that too easy access to guns is what's killing people - the kids in Columbine had no problem, this guy had no problem, the drug dealers have no problem, the gang bangers have no problem .... sheesh - 2 + 2 always = 4 unless of course you are with the NRA!!

[tuckerndfw]

Can any one pro gun person or otherwise,guarantee that they will not become one of those 300,000 cases of mental illness, rsulting in the death of an innocent person.

Posted by rheola at 06:38 PM : Apr 17, 2007

No.

It is still a "strawman argument" and relies on a hypothetical.

Can you guarantee anything at all?

Based on your strawman argument, the police and military should not have weapons of any kind since we cannot guarantee they will all maintain their sanity.

Nor does it relate to the fact "gun laws" are as ineffective as "drug laws." "Gun laws" only apply to honest, law abiding people. They do not affect criminals. Or, the insane.

[nyckate]

didntinhale - you are a TOTAL flipping idiot -- the guy didn't try to ram a car through the school building - he went the route he knew would work - guns.

See - you really are getting stupidier by the moment -- isn't it time you stopped inhaling and snorting???

[charlesdjohn]

There is an old saying that goes something like this, %u201CGod made men, but Sam Colt made men equal.%u201D

Allow me to translate this for the left wing gun ban crowd...

Psycho's are a fact of life. They have existed on the planet for as long as man has existed! They prefer to assault smaller more helpless individuals who they perceive as the lesser threat to their aggression.

Therefore it is the right, the duty, of citizens to own and bear arms that gives peace loving normal seemingly helpless individuals the ability to protect themselves and their families in times of dire need.

The well armed, overly well fed law enforcement officers usually, as in this instance, show up after the fact.

I even watched a video shot with a student cell phone which clearly showed police officers with firearms and body armor standing just outside the building doing nothing while you could clearly hear the gunman inside the building killing people.

You bet on the police, I am betting on my 1911...

[nyckate]

tuckerndfw - Mayor Bloomberg sent undercover agents to VA to purchase guns - with quite obviously fake ID -- and you know what - they got the guns no problem.

It's time to ahve an honest discussion about guns - each time you tell the lies that (a) we want to take your guns away period; and (b) criminals get them anyway you are protecting that slimey scum who killed a baby or a kid or a cop or the girl next door.

The drug dealers and gang bangers don't need to have an international link to get guns - they go to American Gun Shops and Gun SHows and Dealers and get them here, pop them in the car and off they go.

SO let's be real honest - every time you fight off stricter gun laws you're protecting not the moron who can't hit a deer unless he has a machine gun but the gang banger who's killing innocent civilians. That's who you are standing with whether you want to admit it or not.

[tuckerndfw]

you'd think they'd have caught on by now that too easy access to guns is what's killing people -

Posted by NYCKATE at 06:48 PM : Apr 17, 2007

I have owned a firearm since I was about 12 years old. When I was child and continuing to adulthood, I had "easy access" to many firearms. Many people had "rifle racks" in the back windows of their pickup trucks. On which was at least one rifle.

And, I recall very few stories (NONE) of kids being gunned down at school. Or, people being wantonly and randomly murdered at shopping centers, cafes or anywhere else.

"Easy access to firearms" is obviously not the underlying problem.

It appears American society's propensity to deny responsibility, or blame others, for their own actions is a contributing factor. And, the fact the US is the most military aggressive nation on the planet probably also contributes to the aggressiveness of society as a whole.

"Easy access to guns" is as much of a meaningless slogan as "remember 9/11/01," "stay the course," or "support the troops."

It may incite a person's emotions, but is totally meaningless for any practical purpose.

[tuckerndfw]

SO let's be real honest - every time you fight off stricter gun laws you're protecting not the moron who can't hit a deer unless he has a machine gun but the gang banger who's killing innocent civilians. That's who you are standing with whether you want to admit it or not.

Posted by NYCKATE at 06:58 PM : Apr 17, 2007

You are obviously unfamiliar with gun laws if you believe using a phony ID is "legal." Machine guns are likewise prohibited.

I support enforcement of laws, but you are citing instances of behavior that are already illegal. And passing more laws will do nothing to prevent that behavior.

"Gun laws" are as ineffective as drug laws.

[rheola-2009]

Tuckerndfw

Are you not the strawman.

If the gun was not so readily available, then greater difficulty would be experienced by those who develop a homicidal mental illness, to obtain one.

Your further statement about the military and or the police.
They are reguarly checked for just those possibilities, however I would have to admit, that an individual case could slip through the net, if his workmates did not become aware of such, which is most likely would be the case.

A civilian person developing that same homicidal mental illness could remain totally anonymous, until he carried out whatever act he planned.the ability to readily buy or obtain a gun would make it so easy for him.

[tuckerndfw]

I had no idea you could make this much sense Mr Tucker. =)

Posted by didntinhale at 07:12 PM : Apr 17, 2007

My favorite troll(s)...

You are the one who painted me as a "liberal."

How you came to that conclusion is heyond me. But, most "liberals" do not count me as a member of their group. But, then again, most "conservatives" don't either.

I am an independent. I support the US Constitution, rule of law, and individual "freedom."

"Freedom" includes the freedom to face risks.

It does not include a nanny government watching over me to ensure I don't stub my toe on a rock. Or, "protect" me from random, unpreventable accidents or tragedies.

Homicidal maniacs are a fact of life that no law and no law enforcement will ever prevent.

[tuckerndfw]

Posted by rheola at 07:11 PM : Apr 17, 2007

Police officers and soldiers are not routinely checked for anything other than physical fitness.

Perhaps you recall the recent story about the Navy Captain and astronaut who drove from Texas to Florida, wearing a diaper, so she could (???) to her romantic rival.

Your comments rely on strawman arguments and emotional hysteria, not facts.

Laws should never be based on hysterical emotions.

[klingon69]

NYCKATE;
A tragedy has occurred, try to stay off your left-wing liberal BS. The right to keep and bear arms is sacred and rightly should be. I am not a criminal, gang-banger..etc.
But, of course one should expect this kind of rhetoric when one takes into account the infamous billboard in NY telling how many handgun deaths per minute.

[agnim]

"While many will discuss gun control issues, banning guns will not restrict their availability. Even declaring the campus a gun-free zone, which should be enforced, will not stop gunmen or restrict the carnage they can perpetrate.
Posted by AgentG1967 at 06:19 PM : Apr 17, 2007"

I bet you are one of the GUN NUTS? LOL

Gun control is meant to MINIMIZE GUN DEATHS/INJURIES, and can only mean to MINIMIZE GUN DEATHS/INJURIES!

And when and if instituted, gun control DOES MINIMIZE GUN DEATHS/INJURY!

GUN NUTS 'reason' like f@ggots; because both are mentally mixed up creatures and are clueless about logics.

[tuckerndfw]

Mr Tucker Sir? I offer my very humble apoligies at having lumped you into that other group you mentioned. I will be sure to disagree with you a little more agreeable in the future =)

Posted by didntinhale at 07:21 PM : Apr 17, 2007

I take very few things posted on the Internet personally, so you do not owe me an apology.

I only wish you would stop spamming boards on which I participate. I enjoy a good discussion or debate and your spam makes it very hard to find comments directed at me.

But, thanks for the apology, the effort is appreciated even though the apology is unnecessary.

[klingon69]

Kate;
Sorry about having "flew off the handle".
I feel very strongly about this. I agree that gun purchases should be legal and above board, but in my state, the local sheriff's dept is the one who used to regulate gun purchases, prior to the national database,. I was refused the right to purchase a handgun, guess I was a dangerous criminal. What was my crime? I was arrested for possession of marijuana over 15 yrs before. They told me that I would have to write to the state of Virginia to get a letter of expungment(sp), before they could authorize me to purchase. Oh, the sheriff at that time spent more time in DC posturing with Billary to work in her own county.
She actually once arrested some teens at an end of year party, not just in another county, but another state.

[agnim]

"Agnim - yeah - go figure - the NRA crowd must be extremely slow -- you'd think they'd have caught on by now that too easy access to guns is what's killing people ...
Posted by NYCKATE at 06:48 PM : Apr 17, 2007"

YES!

The NRA GUN NUTS are indeed 'slow' on the mental uptake and 'QUICK ON THE DRAW/TRIGGER'!

Until saner and wiser Americans put the GUN NUTS out of business, Americans will continue to mourn AVOIDABLE GUN TRAGEDIES!

And don't fool yourselves, the GUN NUTS can be put out of business.

GUN NUTS don't provide the materials to make guns on such a massive scale of guns in America!
Fools make materials available to GUN NUTS to make so many guns!

[agnim]

"The right to keep and bear arms is sacred and rightly should be. I am not a criminal, gang-banger..etc.
Posted by Klingon69 at 07:25 PM : Apr 17, 2007"

You are criminal and gang-banger in mind by supporting them and supporting the arming of criminals and gang-bangers.

However, how can we expect logical insights from a GUN NUT who would make STUPID STATEMENT about 'bearing and keeping arms is sacred'?

You don't know what is sacred; and you don't know what is criminal!

[randalds]

Being on the same side of an issue as didntinhale is causing me severe issue remorse.
If only he could see Georgie is no friend to proponents of Constitutional adherence. After all, he said it's just "a G*da*n piece of paper".
Posted by veteran71 at 07:11 PM : Apr 17, 2007

I agree, but except for when I'm really bored, it doesn't make me want to bother with the little toad any more anyway. After all like the old saying goes, even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile, so it's not too surprising he has one non-spamming, non-bullsh*it thing to agree with.

[rheola-2009]

Tuckerndfw.

I completely disagree with ypur stand, however luckily each of our countries protect the right for us to do so, even if they disagree on the necessity of gun laws.
I do have a greatly reduced chance of being killed or injured in a gun related incident than do you.

Thank you for answering in your way, the question I asked I appreciate that.
At least you attempted to do so, which is much more than the majority of others.

[agnim]

" Alot of people would think your a nut for thinking you can legislate morality or control crazy.
Posted by didntinhale at 07:41 PM : Apr 17, 2007"

Right, but the talk of 'legislating morality' is a red herring spawned by little minds.

Human beings can be effectively educated, while young, to behavior in a way that is life-supporting for their society.
It's been done all over the world for thousands of generations.

Not all societies on the planet are or have been as criminal/violent as the American!

Those other societies didn't become more civilized by 'legislating morality'.

Those societies accomplish their more upstanding status by LEARNING HOW TO LIVE WELL TOGETHER FOR EACH OTHER, as ALL healthy humans are inclined to do in a social setting!

GUN NUTS are not born monsters.
They are made by the careless and devilish parenting of mindless people!

[processor2]

Europe, has strict gun-control laws and because of them, suffered under the likes of Hitler, Stalin, and Mussolini.

WHEREAS, in America, we have the right to bear arms, and we have been free ever since.

...

Peace to the families of those who were killed.

Of course, the ANTI-GUN NUTS will use this very tragic incident to promote their political viewpoint..

Message to the ANTI-GUN NUTS:

Hitler believed in gun control....where do you stand???

...

[processor2]

Europe, has strict gun-control laws and because of them, suffered under the likes of Hitler, Stalin, and Mussolini.

WHEREAS, in America, we have the right to bear arms, and we have been free ever since.

...

Peace to the families of those who were killed.

Of course, the ANTI-GUN NUTS will use this very tragic incident to promote their political viewpoint..

Message to the ANTI-GUN NUTS:

Hitler believed in gun control....where do you stand???

...

[klingon69]

yeah Agnim;
it has, including the youth indoctrination from the Nazis, the facists in Italia & In China.

[rheola-2009]

Processor2

Totally stupid analogy.

But as you used, how many died and suffered in your civil war.

Further, how about commenting on European Gun related deaths in this day and age.

In other words put your money where your mouth is.

[fascistusa]

The Corporate Media ALWAYS misses the Real Issues:

THE POLICE CANNOT AND WILL NOT PROTECT YOU.

YOUR GOVERNMENT CANNOT PROTECT YOU.

WE ARE NOT FREE. WE LIVE IN A FASCIST COUNTRY RULED BY THE AMERICAN ELITE AND AIPAC/ISRAEL.

WE NEED GUNS TO PROTECT US FROM OUR FASCIST GOVERNMENT.

[klingon69]

rheola;
The war was not civil, it like iraq today, was a war of American Federal Government aggression. It was a war of Northern aggression.

[processor2]

Europe, has strict gun-control laws and because of them, suffered under the likes of Hitler, Stalin, and Mussolini.

WHEREAS, in America, we have the right to bear arms, and we have been free ever since.

...

Peace to the families of those who were killed.

Of course, the ANTI-GUN NUTS will use this very tragic incident to promote their political viewpoint..

Message to the ANTI-GUN NUTS:

Hitler believed in gun control....where do you stand???

...

[rheola-2009]

Klingon69

I shall refrain from entering that discussion.

Out of my scope as a matter of dispute in your country, not mine.

[rheola-2009]

Processor2

How about commenting on European Gun related deaths in this day and age.

In other words put your money where your mouth is.

[processor2]

RHEOLA

When my state passed a concealed weapons law, rape against women dropped by over 50 percent within the first year. KIND OF HARD to rape a woman if there's a gun in her purse.

Also, my GUN SAVED MY LIFE once when two burglars broke into my home one night. They didn't make it.

You can't stop crime by disarming potential victims, and no amount of whiny liberal rhetoric will ever change my mind.

...

[processor2]

RHEOLA

When my state passed a concealed weapons law, rape against women dropped by over 50 percent within the first year. KIND OF HARD to rape a woman if there's a gun in her purse.

Also, my GUN SAVED MY LIFE once when two burglars broke into my home one night. They didn't make it.

You can't stop crime by disarming potential victims,
and no amount of whiny liberal rhetoric will ever change my mind.

...

[processor2]

RHEOLA

When my state passed a concealed weapons law, rape against women dropped by over 50 percent within the first year. KIND OF HARD to rape a woman if there's a gun in her purse.

Also, my GUN SAVED MY LIFE once when two burglars broke into my home one night. They didn't make it.

You can't stop crime by disarming potential victims,
and no amount of whiny liberal rhetoric will ever change my mind.

...

[processor2]

RHEOLA

When my state passed a concealed weapons law, rape against women dropped by over 50 percent within the first year. KIND OF HARD to rape a woman if there's a gun in her purse.

Also, my GUN SAVED MY LIFE once when two burglars broke into my home one night. They didn't make it.

You can't stop crime by disarming potential victims,
and no amount of whiny liberal rhetoric will ever change my mind.

...

[rheola-2009]

Processor2

Why do you avoid my question.

[realpatriot1]

processor2,

On the issue of citizens who want to being able to arm themselves I agree. It's not always the panacea that it was in your situation. My Dad had a gun in his apartment when an intruder broke in but he didn't have the opportunity to get to it and was shot by the intruder. The outcomes aren't uniform.

a lesson about World War 2. Hitler's ultimate defeat was accomplished when the citizens of Moscow set their own homes on fire and left the Nazis to freeze. No guns needed.

[hillaryin08]

Here we go, the gun grabbing socialists known as the "Democrat Party of Defeat" are coming out of the high grass again. Why dont you tie this incident to George Bush and the war in Iraq like everything else?

[rhs648]

Virginia allows concealed weapons. However, the University does not allow weapons in classrooms. If some of the students were carrying their guns, perhaps far fewer people would have died. This is another situation where innocent people could not defend themselves because of biases against guns. It is hard not to agree that armed students might have stopped the killer.

[iceman_1960]

"a lesson about World War 2. Hitler's ultimate defeat was accomplished when the citizens of Moscow set their own homes on fire and left the Nazis to freeze. No guns needed."
Posted by realpatriot1 at 09:34 PM : Apr 17, 2007

That's Napolean you're thinking of, if you'll pardon the correction.

General Zhukov's unexpected counterattack with massive a Siberian force the Germans hadn't been aware of, was the factor at Moscow in WW2.