Clinton Promises Universal Health Care

Says She "Learned A Lot" During Failed Health Care Effort Of Husband's Presidency

(AP)  Democratic presidential hopeful Hillary Rodham Clinton vowed Monday to create a universal health care system if elected, saying she "learned a lot" during the failed health care effort of her husband's presidency.

"We're going to have universal health care when I'm president — there's no doubt about that. We're going to get it done," the New York senator and front-runner for the 2008 nomination said.

Clinton focused on health care issues during an appearance on ABC's "Good Morning America" broadcast from the state where precinct caucuses will launch the presidential nominating season.

Asked how she could improve on her failed effort to reform health care during her husband's presidency, Clinton said pressure for change has built in the last decade and that would make tackling the issue easier.

"I believe the American people are going to make this an issue," said Clinton. "I believe we're in a better position today to do that than we were in '93 and '94. ... It's one of the reasons I'm running for president."

After the televised meeting, Clinton headed to a Des Moines elementary school to receive the endorsement of former Gov. Tom Vilsack and his wife, Christie.

"Hillary Clinton has been tried and tested like no other candidate for president," Tom Vilsack said.

His wife added, "To me, this is not just an endorsement but a commitment."

Clinton said her relationship with the Vilsacks dates to her work in the 1970s with Christie Vilsack's late brother, lawyer Tom Bell.

"We will be crisscrossing Iowa and crisscrossing America," Clinton said.

In her earlier appearance, Clinton argued that health coverage has deteriorated over the last decade, and that's increased public pressure to act.

"The number of uninsured has grown," said Clinton. "It's hard to ignore the fact that nearly 47 million people don't have health insurance, but also because so many people with insurance have found it's difficult to get health care because the insurance companies deny you what you need."

Clinton opened her latest campaign swing with a live broadcast from the Science Center of Iowa, where she spoke to more than 200 activists at a town meeting about health care issues. It's an issue with which she is very familiar. After her husband won the White House in 1992, she headed an effort to put a universal health care system in place. That effort eventually collapsed under pressure in part from the insurance industry.

However, while Clinton said the issue continues to be a high priority for her, she has not offered up a specific plan. One questioner at the town hall meeting held up a copy of a DVD containing a detailed description of Democratic rival John Edwards' plan for universal health care, asking Clinton if she will also offer specifics.

The reason she hasn't "set out a plan and said here's exactly what I will do," Clinton said, is that she wants to hear from voters what kind of plan they would favor.

"I want the ideas that people have," said Clinton. She said any health care plan must deal with the reality that there's a unique climate in the country.

"We are bigger and more diverse and people like their choice," said Clinton.

Edwards, a former North Carolina senator and 2004 Democratic runningmate, has said it's inevitable that taxes would have to go up to finance an expensive health care plan. Clinton disagreed.

"We've got to get the costs under control," said Clinton. "Why would we put more money into a dysfunctional system?"

Clinton sidestepped a question on whether she'd consider Vilsack as a potential running mate should she win the nomination.

"I am a very big fan of Governor Vilsack," Clinton said, adding that he has "the kind of practical but visionary leadership we need in our country."

Vilsack was the first Democrat to formally enter the 2008 presidential race in November, but he dropped out last month citing the difficulty in raising the tens of millions of dollars necessary to mount a credible bid.

[zootallures2]

We heard that last time with wet Willie.

Now:
Who or what attacked New York on 9/11?
Who jammed the broad cast satallites with fake plane crashes?

Who does the mainstream 911 truth movement work for? Is this Rush Limbaugh and the neo-cons resurected or a leftwing attempt? Or what?

Why did a radio dispatch of a dying NYPD go:
Message on that plane, it's dropping bombs, we're in terrible trouble.

Important stuff! I don't want to hear false promises and I've had it up to here with abortion and homos!

[gunownerdan]

The bible says rich people like the Clintons and the Bushes are going straight to hell. We must make sure they don't bring America down with them!!!!

[forthepeaple]

I have been looking and found something that all america has forgotton.Who said this statement: If the personal freedoms of all americans by the Constitution and bill of right are Inhibiting the Government ability to (Govern)that meant control, the people of united states of america..Than we Should look to Limit those GUARANTEES #2.The united states Government CAN'T BE so fixed on our desires to preserve the RIGHTS of ORDINARY AMERICANS #3.I can do any ********* thing i want,I'm president of the united states and you dont forget that.....who am I...

DO YOU ALL THINK SHE ANY BETTER THAN HER HUBBY HES THE ONE THAT STATED THAT...

[tuckerndfw]

We already have "universal health care" in the US. It's called the "emergency room."

It is not a matter of not having health care, it's how it is currently provided.

Providing emergency room health care is the least efficient method for delivering health care. Perhaps the US should ask Cuba how that tiny little nation is able to produce enough doctors and medical people that they can provide health care to other nations at little or no cost.

Hlllary's "plan" to require all Americans to buy health care insurance is not "universal health care." It is a boondoggle and would be a windfall for her insurance company cronies.

Hillary is as corrupt as George Bush.

[tuckerndfw]

Maybe Hillary can adopt my plan to make all Americans millionaires in one generation.

Using her "plan" as a basis, the federal government can use the law to force all parents to buy life insurance policies that provide a minimum of one million dollars to each of their children.

In one generation, all Americans would be millionaires.

See how easy it is when you can use the law to require people to buy services they cannot afford (or do not want)?


And, that is the basis for Hillary's claim of "providing universal health care." What she means is she would require all Americans to buy health care insurance (that is approved by her) or be imprisoned (and provided health care).

Hillary is as corrupt as George Bush.

[tomar0317]

47,000,000 people w/o health care!! And here our elected folks continue to send trillions of dollars to help other countries!!! What's wrong with this picture????

[jwhitmann]

We need a Communist Revolution in the USA! Everbudy knows that reel Communism has never been tried.

We need to round up all republicans, neocons, etc. and send them all to re-educashun camps to teach them how to be politcaly corect. WE CANNOT TOLERATE DESENT, we need to imprison all conservatives until they convert to OUR way of thinking. When everbudy is politicaly corect and thinks like us, then we can all get along

Re-distribute monie from rich and give to the pour, that's what the rich diserve for wurking so hard. It isnt fare that people who wurk hard get payd more.

COMMUNIZE HEALTH CARE FIRST, then energy, then corporations so that everbudy works for the state.

There is no god, only the state, WE know it takes a village!

Long live the gloreus peeples republic of amerika

[forthepeaple]

I have been looking and found something that all america has forgotton.Who said this statement: If the personal freedoms of all americans by the Constitution and bill of right are Inhibiting the Government ability to (Govern)that meant control, the people of united states of america..Than we Should look to Limit those GUARANTEES #2.The united states Government CAN'T BE so fixed on our desires to preserve the RIGHTS of ORDINARY AMERICANS #3.I can do any ********* thing i want,I'm president of the united states and you dont forget that.....who am I...
PUTTING ANYONE THAT IS RUNNING RIGHT NOW IN THE PRESIDENTS OFFICE WILL PUT US IN THE SAME PLACE WE ARE IN RIGHT NOW. DO YOU ALL WANT THIS ALL OVER AGAIN? DO YOU

[pwrslm]

The bible says rich people like the Clintons and the Bushes are going straight to hell. We must make sure they don't bring America down with them!!!!
Posted by GunOwnerDan at 11:32 AM : Mar 26, 2007


What are you talking about? Didnt God say he makes these Kings and leaders above us? They serve at His pleasure, not ours.

Just like our invasion of Iraq, while it seems to have been misleading, the true effect was truely righteous, beyond any scheme or imagination men could have had.

Saddams sons no longer rape and kill at will. Saddam actions were responsible for the deaths of 2 million people. They cured Iraq prison crowding by taking the prisoners out and killing them. Then they went out and arrested more political dissidents to crowd the prisons again. 500,000 infants and children died because Saddam would not take the necessary action to provide his people with water, but he could build disney like complexes and palaces with state of the art water systems.

With the death of the tyrant, we find the enemies of Gods people killing each other. God truely is at work here, at levels far deeper than any of us know.

[random_radar]

Didn't Mitt Romney actually implement a health car plan in Massachussetts? I am not in favor of socialized medicine, but I would look at a real plan in operation before I would listen to Hillary Clinton wax eloquent about pie-in-the-sky ideas. Is Romney's plan working?

[condumism]

Clinton hits a nerve of the self-centered, 3rd world policies of the fascist Confederate Rethuglicon Party. Simply put, without universal health care, the USA can not compete in the global economy, PERIOD! But after all the reason extended to the Confederate Rethuglicon Condummies, they will still only care about one thing: THEMSELVES!

[pwrslm]

Universal Health Care is pulled out of the hat every time Demoncraps get desparate.

Even the women. This is the traditional carrot on a stick, been going around politics since the 40s.

[gunnerv1]

Universal Health Care (Socialized Medicine) Why do the Canadians that live near the US Border come to America for their Health Care? 1. They don't have to wait 6 months to see a Doctor, 2. We have better care. In Canada there is not an incenative to perform better, your paid a flat rate by the Government no matter what.

[condumism]

Today's thought from the desparate Rethuglicon Reicht winged fascists: Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me, Me!

[gunnerv1]

Condumism: Looks like somebody woke up on the wrong side of the Rock!

[tuckerndfw]

We should just enroll all Americans in the same health care plan provided to the President, and to members of Congress & the Supreme Court.

They all seem to enjoy extravagant health care benefits, including "free" routine checkups, at no cost to themselves.

If it's good for them, why not all Americans?

And, if not, why do they have such extravagant health care provided for "free" (at taxpayer expense)?

[condumism]

European Universal Health Care: Huge success throughout the continent, value of the Euro compared to the dollar has increased over 50% in the past 5 years. Canadian Universal Health Care: clearly one of the best programs in the world, no waits, great care, 98% of all Canadians are very satisfied with their universal health care program.

Percent of GDP towards health care in Europe and Canada: 8%; in the USA, 17%. Sorry ConDummies! I know you hate facts!

[wiredwilly]

Universal Healthcare is a must. Compassion will replace hate,
generosity will replace greed, and wisdom will replace folly.
What is now is not what will be in the future.
Ms. Clinton is on the right track.
What folly spending trillions destroying people
when you could spend trillions healing them.
I grew up in the 1950's when everything was Elvis, Hot Rods, New Inventions and Hope. Health Care is a right, not a privilege. We simply need to change the rules of the game.
The Internet will empower our collective intelligence .
There are much more sane ways to approach Health Care.
Exploiting people's suffering for profit is obsolete.

[pwrslm]

Canada boasts one of the highest life expectancies (about 80 years) and lowest infant morality rates of industrialized countries, which many attribute to Canada's health care system.

Sucks that politics prevent a similar health care plan for America.

[jwhitmann]

We need a Communist Revolution in the USA! Everbudy knows that reel Communism has never been tried.

We need to round up all republicans, neocons, etc. and send them all to re-educashun camps to teach them how to be politcaly corect. WE CANNOT TOLERATE DESENT, we need to imprison all conservatives until they convert to OUR way of thinking. When everbudy is politicaly corect and thinks like us, then we can all get along

Re-distribute monie from rich and give to the pour, that's what the rich diserve for wurking so hard. It isnt fare that people who wurk hard get payd more.

COMMUNIZE HEALTH CARE FIRST, then energy, then corporations so that everbudy works for the state.

There is no god, only the state, WE know it takes a village!

Long live the gloreus peeples republic of amerika

[jn122736]

Evidently, since blaming Bill Clinton for Bush%u2019s Iraqi fiasco is going nowhere and Bush can do no wrong, it is now time to blame it all on God

If this %u201Cgod%u201D is so weak that he has to resort to lies and deceit to get someone to do his work for him I find it hard to believe he could have created the entire universe in only seven days.

That is as rediculas as banning flag burning because our flag (symbol) is too weak to withstand criticism.

[chadi7]

What are you talking about? Didnt God say he makes these Kings and leaders above us? They serve at His pleasure, not ours.

Just like our invasion of Iraq, while it seems to have been misleading, the true effect was truely righteous, beyond any scheme or imagination men could have had.

Saddams sons no longer rape and kill at will. Saddam actions were responsible for the deaths of 2 million people. They cured Iraq prison crowding by taking the prisoners out and killing them. Then they went out and arrested more political dissidents to crowd the prisons again. 500,000 infants and children died because Saddam would not take the necessary action to provide his people with water, but he could build disney like complexes and palaces with state of the art water systems.

With the death of the tyrant, we find the enemies of Gods people killing each other. God truely is at work here, at levels far deeper than any of us know.
Posted by pwrslm at 11:57 AM : Mar 26, 2007

Ah I see, so God sanctioned all of the torture in Abu Ghraib? Oh and he must have been ok with Saddam killing all those people in the first place, its ok they were just muslims anyway right? And it was ok for Bush to lie in order to get us into a war that has caused more hatred towards America? Since God is in control then I guess we can blame him for everything that goes wrong in the world as well as all the stuff that goes well? Yeah God is in control and he's making the world a better place for sure.

[jwhitmann]

We need a Communist Revolution in the USA! Everbudy knows that reel Communism has never been tried.

We need to round up all republicans, neocons, etc. and send them all to re-educashun camps to teach them how to be politcaly corect. WE CANNOT TOLERATE DESENT, we need to imprison all conservatives until they convert to OUR way of thinking. When everbudy is politicaly corect and thinks like us, then we can all get along

Re-distribute monie from rich and give to the pour, that's what the rich diserve for wurking so hard. It isnt fare that people who wurk hard get payd more.

COMMUNIZE HEALTH CARE FIRST, then energy, then corporations so that everbudy works for the state.

There is no god, only the state, WE know it takes a village!

Long live the gloreus peeples republic of amerika

[jmagarotz]

98% of all Canadians are very satisfied with their universal health care program.

Percent of GDP towards health care in Europe and Canada: 8%; in the USA, 17%. Sorry ConDummies! I know you hate facts!
Posted by condumism at 12:17 PM : Mar 26, 2007

PT Barnum said,"There's a sucker born every minute."
I might add,"There's always someone there to take them."

Now we know why wealthy Canadians get their healthcare in Ohio. Get YOUR FACTS right for once moonbat!

[gunnerv1]

I kinwo very well that the (Most) EU has cradle to grave health care, They allso have the highest "Cradel to Grave Taxes" to support the folly. I know, my wife was raised in the Father land.

[gunnerv1]

"Just to say No" to the Hillrmonster

[forthepeaple]

SHE IS JUST LIKE HER HUBBY.IF YOU WANT THE SAME IN WASHINGTON GO AHEAD AND VOTE FOR HER

[jebby_one]

neo-commie says:

Canada boasts one of the highest life expectancies (about 80 years) and lowest infant morality rates of industrialized countries, which many attribute to Canada's health care system.

-------------------------

yes, so let's take a shortcut and pay the bus fare to Canada for Americans who want free health care.

[jwhitmann]

We need a Communist Revolution in the USA! Everbudy knows that reel Communism has never been tried.

We need to round up all republicans, neocons, etc. and send them all to re-educashun camps to teach them how to be politcaly corect. WE CANNOT TOLERATE DESENT, we need to imprison all conservatives until they convert to OUR way of thinking. When everbudy is politicaly corect and thinks like us, then we can all get along

Re-distribute monie from rich and give to the pour, that's what the rich diserve for wurking so hard. It isnt fare that people who wurk hard get payd more.

COMMUNIZE HEALTH CARE FIRST, then energy, then corporations so that everbudy works for the state.

There is no god, only the state, WE know it takes a village!

Long live the gloreus peeples republic of amerika

[jmagarotz]

As an expat in Europe I can tell you it's wonderful to have universal health care. I can go to the doctor whenever I want, and need to. I don't have to worry about approval of visits from HMO's or costly private insurance.

Quite a few Brits, who have came over here told me that after you reach age 55 usually you are no longer considered a contributing member of society and your quality of healthcare decreases rapidly. As for bypass surgery or something equally as serious, "Forget It", you are put on a waiting list until you die. Sounds like a hell of a procedure to me! I don't know about the rest of you but I don't want to risk "Hillary care" to find out. Once you get government mandated health care you won't ever get rid of it.

[scott4261]

We should just enroll all Americans in the same health care plan provided to the President, and to members of Congress & the Supreme Court.

They all seem to enjoy extravagant health care benefits, including "free" routine checkups, at no cost to themselves.

If it's good for them, why not all Americans?

And, if not, why do they have such extravagant health care provided for "free" (at taxpayer expense)?
Posted by tuckerndfw at 12:12 PM

-------

Interestingly enough, one of the Bush apologists raised this same question a couple of days ago. Which made me laugh. Not because it would not be a good solution...I believe that it would. But because that would be a prime example of a single-payer Universal health care system...the very thing they have been arguing against!

[jebby_one]

Let me see if I understand ...


Hillary wants to take away some of the Medicare benefits that I already paid for and give them to someone who votes for her ?

[forthepeaple]

Any president who says, I don't care, or I will not respond to what the people of this country are saying about Iraq or anything else, or I don't care what the Congress does, I am going to proceed %u2014 if a president really believes that, then there are %u2014 what I was pointing out, there are ways to deal with that,"

SO WHY HAVEN'T YOU IN CONGRESS STARTED IMPEACHMENT THEN..

YOU ALL SAY YOU TALK THE TALK. LETS SEE IT..I DONT BELEIVE ANY OF YOU DOWN IN WASHINGTON HAS WHAT IT TAKES TO PULL THE TRIGGER..

BUT I DO KNOW SOMEONE WILLING TO DO IT AT LEASE HE IS A AMERICAN VET READY TO TAKE CHARGE OF THE MESS THAT YOU AND THIS PRESIDENT HAS PUT AMERICA IN....HIS NAME IS DAVID A BELANGER, SEND HIM A NOTE AT [e-mail] HES AMERICAS CHOICE FOR PRESIDENT.SO GET IT OUT IN THE WEB.

[jebby_one]

We should just enroll all Americans in the same health care plan provided to the President, and to members of Congress & the Supreme Court.

----------

How about starting with fair pricing where providers charge everyone the same $$ for the same service.

Imagine if they sold food like they sell health care? First you'd have to have food insurance. A poor *** without food insurance would then get charged $14.00 for a hamburger while those with the right kind of food insurance would get the same hamburger for $1.50. Meanwhile those whose food insurance was paid for by their employers would get a free ride on taxes while the poor *** without the food insurance would see his taxes being used to subsidize the tax free food insurance.

[scott4261]

I've made it clear that Hillary, in particular, is not the president I would want. And I think she would accomplish little in this area because she has already proven to be too divisive with this issue.

47 million people in this country are without any kind of insurance coverage, many in that number make too much for any kind of government assistance but they cannot afford to maintain insurance and they wind up without any insurance at all...and praying to God that they don't get sick or have a catastrophic illness which will wipe them out. That is the reality and the demand to take care of this issue is simply too large for any politician to ignore.

I support John Edwards plan on this issue, because I believe he is the most realistic in his approach. Sure, taxes may have to be raised, and most will probably be on the top 2% that Bush has coddled over the last 6 years.

Universal health care will certainly happen in some form in the United States. It would most certainly be working with insurance supplements from private companies. That seems to be the basis of Edwards's approach and I agree with him. Now, I work FOR an insurance company and I can tell you that preparations are already being made to adapt for this eventuality. It is going to happen in some form. You can bet on it.

[perception5]

Promises.........Promises...... our 110th "Do-Nothing" Congress also promised the "poor people" that there would be an increase in the minimum wage...........yet as of today........no increase!............. plenty of non-binding Iraq resolutions........ failed legislation for their mob-run union buddies.......
In 2008 Americans WILL vote this Congress out...... according to latest Gallup Poll only 28% of Americans approve of THIS Congress......despite the best efforts of our corrupt liberal MSM wolfpack to "prop" their fellow pal Dems up........... sad indeed.

[scott4261]

Our founding fathers made sure that our government does not veer too far from the center of public opinion. And when it does, a shift is inevitable. The balance of powers as outlined in the U.S. Constitution guarantees this. We have shifted to the right in the last six years, so a shift to the left is inevitable.

Some form of universal health care is inevitable because the majority of the public demand it. But the balance of powers will prevent whatever form it takes from tacking too far to the left - which is precisely why a SINGLE PAYER universal health care system is not likely to ever be a reality in the United States.

[cadmantwo]

As usual, the problem with conservatives is that they are so d*mn*d expensive. Free physicals and tests are way cheaper than major surgery. Free office visits are way cheaper than emergency room visits. But, we can't have any of that "free" stuff because the only thing we can have is a free market.

Nevermind the anecedotal evidence, the fact is that we Americans pay more for health care per capita than any other "advanced" country. Further, by any measure, we fall behind the others in quality and effectiveness. (E.G.: Just check out infant mortality rates.)

Worst of all, most of the people standing side-by-side with big medicine and big insurance are working against their own best interests. One way or another, we already pay the bills for those who can't. Wake up people! You're not only paying for it, you're paying more for less than you would in Canada, Europe or Japan!

[zootallures2]

But what is she going to do about the 60 foot sea gulls in New York? .... lol.

Or did Cheney shoot it down in Shanksville next to the giant rabbit hole?

[tejasdemo]

Bush and the Republicans are in the way to any progress in the US. Bush and Cheney should be impeached. Voters should have to pay a $1000.00 fee to register as a Republican.

[zootallures2]

Bush and the Republicans are in the way to any progress in the US. Bush and Cheney should be impeached. Voters should have to pay a $1000.00 fee to register as a Republican.
Posted by tejasdemo at 01:56 PM : Mar 26, 2007

A Republican Tax... LMAO!!!!
I like it!!!! You too funny...respek!

[jwhitmann]

We need a Communist Revolution in the USA! Everbudy knows that reel Communism has never been tried.

We need to round up all republicans, neocons, etc. and send them all to re-educashun camps to teach them how to be politcaly corect. WE CANNOT TOLERATE DESENT, we need to imprison all conservatives until they convert to OUR way of thinking. When everbudy is politicaly corect and thinks like us, then we can all get along

Re-distribute monie from rich and give to the pour, that's what the rich diserve for wurking so hard. It isnt fare that people who wurk hard get payd more.

COMMUNIZE HEALTH CARE FIRST, then energy, then corporations so that everbudy works for the state.

There is no god, only the state, WE know it takes a village!

Long live the gloreus peeples republic of amerika

[zootallures2]

"wurking so hard."

Hey Bevis he said Hard...he he he he

[xsoldier2]

Looks like it is say, do, and act any it takes to get elected, she will be a conservative if she has to. Keep the little people down and make promises. That will get you elected

[bigsk8fan]

"We need a Communist Revolution in the USA!" Posted by jwhitmann

In case you haven't heard, even the communist countries abandoned communism. And I would submit that the true or pure form of communism can not exist. Only existed in the forms that we saw. Similarly, absolutely true capitalism never existed. But what we have seen is pretty close.

[willowing]

Governor Bill Richardson of New Mexico has promised Universal Health Care AND a way to fund it. He's got great credentials and ideas. Wish he was being covered more.

[dogsoul]

"Also if you think this is communist in the sense of soviet communist, consider that all western nations except the US must be communist then. This is absurd!"

Communism is simply a more extreme form of Socialism... and most of Europe IS Socialist - so we're talking about socialized medicine - which have proven to be disasterous & in desperate need of massive reform wherever it's been employed... It's bankrupt, its quality drops thru the floor, advancements wither to a fraction of what they once were - it's disasterous & plainly observable as such.

[scott4261]

jwhitmann is an IMPOSTER. Not to be confused with j-whitman.

[us_infidel]

"We're going to have universal health care when I'm president %u2014 there's no doubt about that."
Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y.

Maybe to Obama ad wasn't so far off. Hillary, the Orwellian socialist, won't be happy until "the state" provides everything. We'll just sit there drooling on ourselves listening to her tell us how great things are. Not MY America!

[us_infidel]

It's bankrupt, its quality drops thru the floor, advancements wither to a fraction of what they once were - it's disasterous & plainly observable as such.
Posted by dogsoul at 02:21 PM : Mar 26, 2007

Yeah, but that's just because the "right" libs haven't been running it. See, these "enlightened American libs" are smarter than your average western european socialist. That's why it has never worked! :)