How Much Does 4 Years Of War Cost?

The U.S. Has Spent Close To $500 Billion On The War In Iraq

(AP)  In four years, the United States has spent close to $500 billion on the war in Iraq — more than the total for the Korean War and nearly as much as 12 years in Vietnam, adjusting for inflation. The ultimate cost could reach $1 trillion or more.

A lot of money? No question.

But even though the war has turned out to be much more expensive than Bush administration officials predicted on the eve of the March 2003 invasion, it is relatively affordable — at least in historical terms.

Iraq eats up less than 1 percent of the nation's gross domestic product, compared with as much as 14 percent for Vietnam and 9 percent for Korea.

"I think it's hard to argue it's not affordable," said Steven M. Kosiak, director of budget studies at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, a defense think tank in Washington, D.C.

The problem, he and other budget analysts argue, isn't so much the overall cost of the Iraq war. It's the way the government has chosen to pay for it.

For one thing, war funding for both Iraq and Afghanistan has come in the form of supplemental appropriations outside the normal federal budget process. Typically these "supplementals" are used to pay for unexpected emergencies such as Hurricane Katrina, and they receive much less scrutiny from Congress.

President Truman quit asking for supplementals after the first year of the Korean War. The Vietnam War started appearing in the federal budget beginning in 1966, the year after regular troops were committed.

But after four years the Iraq war is still being funded with supplementals. In December, congressional budget leaders from both parties sent a letter to President Bush asking him to start paying for Iraq through the traditional budget process. The administration has done that in its 2008 budget year request — but not before asking for another $100 billion supplemental to keep the war going through the end of this year.

And during previous wars, presidents have asked Americans to make tough sacrifices in order to help pay for the war effort, said Robert Hormats, a managing director at Goldman Sachs and author of the forthcoming book "The Price of Liberty: Paying for America's Wars."

Virtually every war in U.S. history has required the government to borrow at least some money, Hormats said. But Franklin D. Roosevelt also eliminated some New Deal programs and cut others to help pay for World War II (the most expensive of American wars, it cost more than $2 trillion in inflation-adjusted dollars). Truman raised taxes and slashed domestic spending to help pay for Korea.

"No such thing has occurred" during this war, Hormats lamented this month during a panel discussion held at the New School's Schwartz Center for Economic Policy Analysis in New York City. "This war we had no reassessment of fiscal policy, no alteration of fiscal policy to make room in the budget to pay for the war."

Instead, the war is being paid for with debt.

Administration officials downplay the war's cost and the growing defense budget, which will be larger by the end of this year than at any time since World War II.

Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates acknowledged in Congressional testimony last month that his department's 2008 budget request, along with supplemental funding for the war, had produced some "sticker shock." But he pointed out that defense and war spending is still only about 4 percent of the nation's total economic output, a much smaller fraction that it has been historically.

If anything, notes former Nebraska Sen. Bob Kerrey, that's a testament to how big and strong the U.S. economy has become in the past few decades.

"We've demonstrated tremendous capacity to do a very, very expensive program," said Kerrey, a Democrat who now serves as president of the New School.

He and others say that the continued strength of the economy itself is a demonstration of the war's affordability. But with projections that the costs of Social Security and especially Medicare are about to go through the roof — not to mention the possibility of future national security crises — the war is contributing to a fiscal problem that is expected to become increasingly apparent over the course of the next decade.

And the war's costs will continue to accrue long after the last U.S. troops finally leave Iraq. A recent study by Linda Bilmes of Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government put the total cost of providing medical care and disability benefits to veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan at $350 billion to $700 billion.

That huge cost is partly a result of the number and type of casualties the Iraq war has produced. Troops in Iraq have a much better chance of surviving serious injuries than those wounded in previous wars; there have been 16 troops wounded there for every fatality, compared to 2.6 injuries per death in Vietnam and 2.8 in Korea.

"While it is welcome news and a credit to military medicine that more soldiers are surviving grievous wounds, the existence of so many veterans, with such a high level of injuries, is yet another aspect of this war for which the Pentagon and the administration failed to plan, prepare and budget," Bilmes wrote in a January working paper.

In a study co-authored with Columbia University economist and Nobel laureate Joseph Stiglitz, Bilmes estimated that the real price of the Iraq war, when you add up spending to date, future costs and economic impacts such as elevated oil prices, is well over $2 trillion.

That's an impressive number. But it needs to be compared to the cost of leaving Saddam Hussein in power, said Steven J. Davis, a business professor at the University of Chicago.

"You might even still today hold the view that the other path would have been more costly in economic terms than the path we've gone down," Davis said.

Davis and two colleagues considered that possibility in a working paper they have presented several times and circulated through the National Bureau on Economic Research.

Certainly the military cost of keeping Saddam under wraps would have been less than the cost of the Iraq war. For more than a decade, enforcing no-fly zones and conducting weapons inspections contained the dictator at a fraction of the war's cost. Davis and his colleagues estimated that continuing that strategy would have cost of about $14.5 billion a year, a tenth of the cost of the Iraq war.

But what if it failed? What if an increasingly troublesome Saddam Hussein provoked repeated military responses from the United States? What if he grew more powerful and eventually had to be overthown by force? What if he sponsored a terrorist attack on the United States?

The Chicago team put the potential cost of such outcomes at anywhere between $50 billion and $700 billion. That's a shockingly broad range, and where the true figure lies depends on how much of a threat Saddam Hussein would have become had he remained in power — something nobody really knows.

[forthepeaple]

HAVE BEEN TELLING ALL OF YOU TO GO AND READ THE FACTS TRUE FACTS ABOUT IRAQ AND IRAN..HOW MUCH LONGER TO I HAVE TO KEEP POSTING THE SAME THING UNTIL YOU ALL READ IT..go to www.scoop.co.nz go to search tab and put in PENTAGON WHISTLE-BLOWER IRAQ and read it..it is sad but true and until you americans wake up and smell the s/h/i/t/ that your government has been telling you for CENTURIES.....
I was once proud to be american and proud to say i i'm a vet,now i just want out.You all in congress and capital hill and white house should be working for america and the americans that elected you to protect us,that isn't the case and i know why. I have been looking and found something that all america has forgotton.Who said this statement: If the personal freedoms of all americans by the Constitution and bill of right are Inhibiting the Government ability to (Govern)that meant control, the people of united states of america..Than we Should look to Limit those GUARANTEES #2.The united states Government CAN'T BE so fixed on our desires to preserve the RIGHTS of ORDINARY AMERICANS #3.I can do any ********* thing i want,I'm president of the united states and you dont forget that.....who am I..... so you all have been following your orders well i want you all to know that i hold all of you accountable for the murders of thousends of americans that have died and wounded in a war we have no buisness being in,

[dallison7]

Franklin D. Roosevelt also eliminated some New Deal programs and cut others to help pay for World War II (the most expensive of American wars, it cost more than $2 trillion in inflation-adjusted dollars).


WWII was fought to protect our freedom. This war does not protect anything, it simply enhances the bottom line of big corporations.

THIS WAR IS ILLEGAL AND IMMORAL!!

[micma-2009]

How much does it cost? No matter, we're borrowing the money from China and sending the children of the poor to fight it. We can just pay the interest and charge it up indefinitely. Besides it's been a boom for Halliburton and other Bush friends.

[feelfree1]

Re: "But what if it failed? What if an increasingly troublesome Saddam Hussein provoked repeated military responses from the United States? What if he grew more powerful and eventually had to be overthown by force? What if he sponsored a terrorist attack on the United States?"

Sounds like the author of this garbage still has Richard Perle's tiny phallus floating in his mouth.

The long-term direct financial cost of the illegal U.S. war of aggression against Iraq is estimated at closer to $2.5 trillion.

http://www.newstatesman.com/200703120024

www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/12855294/national_affairs_the_2_trillion_dollar_war

The cost in blood now stands at 3200+ dead U.S. soldiers, and 655,000 dead Iraqis.

The greatest cost, however, is the loss of our digminy, our self-respect, and our freedom.

[bluestardad]

363 TONS OF MONEY ON PALLETS NOT TO MENTION HOW MUCH OIL PROFITS ARE BEING SYPHONED OFF! BUSH IS FUNDING AL QAEDA IN LEBANON TO DESTABLIZE IT FOR ISRAEL! WHILE THE SAUDIS ARE FUNDING THE SUNNIS KILLING IN IRAQ!

HERE ARE THE REPUBLICAN SENATORS UP FOR REELECTION IN 08 WRITE THEM ASK THEM IF THEIR SUPPORT FOR ISRAEL TRUMPS THEIR DUTY TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHO ARE BEING KILLED FROM THEIR STATES?

ASK THEM HOW MUCH AIPAC INFLUENCES THEIR VOTES ON IRAQ?

http://www.aipac.org/forms/join_aipacClubs.htm


Alexander, Lamar- (R - TN)
Allard, Wayne- (R - CO)
Chambliss, Saxby- (R - GA)
Cochran, Thad- (R - MS)
Coleman, Norm- (R - MN)
Collins, Susan M.- (R - ME)
Cornyn, John- (R - TX)
Craig, Larry E.- (R - ID)
Dole, Elizabeth- (R - NC)
Enzi, Michael B.- (R - WY)
Graham, Lindsey- (R - SC)
Hagel, Chuck- (R - NE)
Inhofe, James M.- (R - OK)
McConnell, Mitch- (R - KY)
Roberts, Pat- (R - KS)
Sessions, Jeff- (R - AL)
Smith, Gordon H.- (R - OR)
Stevens, Ted- (R - AK)
Sununu, John E.- (R - NH)
Warner, John- (R - VA)

If you think Americas sacrifice is worth it contact your ELECTED OFFICIAL and tell them http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/

The House Speakers email address: [e-mail]

[e-mail] Here is the Republican Party email address too!

[e-mail] Here is the Democratic Party email address also!

[lou551]

How much of this cost (the money, not the lives of American military or the women and children killed by either the military or the insurgent's bombs or murders)is acutally being spent, and how much is being put in the pockets of certain companies that don't have to bid on the project or explain just where the money goes. I also wonder if after his term ends, will the VP continue in politics, or will he return to his previous position with Haliburton?

[nothappyatall]

""I think it's hard to argue it's not affordable," said Steven M. Kosiak, director of budget studies at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, a defense think tank in Washington, D.C."

Oh yeah we can afford it! funny though how we CANT afford to use that kind of money to feed and house the homeless, jobless families, people undergoing cancer treatment and can't work etc. We can't afford dental care for Americans, newer schools or repairing them, roads, bridges etc, but we sure as hell can afford a trillion dollars for a kraphole country like Iraq and rebuid THEIR roads, bridges,schools.

[randalds]

This is one of the more irritating concepts that so few Bush supporters seem to grasp. They wonder how this can be a war for oil or profit when it's cost us $500 billion dollars? What they fail to understand is that it's not like when you spend money on a war that you're just putting it into a pile and burning it. It goes to defense contractor and big oil companies. Yes this war has cost the American tax payers a sh*it load of money, but it has made just about as big of a load of money for Bush's buddies. This war is nothing more then a transfer of billions and billions of our dollars into the hands of a few rich elite who have bought and paid for Bush and Cheney to do it. This is not a war, it's an armed robbery, with our troops dying and us paying for it. Face it America and bend further over, because we've been screwed.

[bmsbms29]

Yes it cost $$$ & lives.

BUT what would the cost be IF we were not fighting the terroists overseas.

We can't even imagine what the cost would be IF we were fighting HERE on U.S.A. SOIL!!!!!!

[randalds]

Yes it cost $$$ & lives.

BUT what would the cost be IF we were not fighting the terroists overseas.

We can't even imagine what the cost would be IF we were fighting HERE on U.S.A. SOIL!!!!!!
Posted by bmsbms29 at 05:31 PM : Mar 18, 2007


We are NOT fighting terrorists in Iraq! There were NO al Qaeda in Iraq before the war and there are da*mn few of them there now! We are in the middle of a civil war between the Sunni and Shia, NOT fighting al Qaeda!! This whole "We're fighting them there so we don't have to fight them here" is a line of complete bullsh*it from Bush that even he has abandoned saying because of how stupid it is. If we pull out of Iraq the Iraqi's are NOT going to come over here! That whole concept is ignorant! They are also not going to tolerate al Qaeda basing itself in THIER country. They don't want terrorists in their country now anymore then they did when Saddam was in power and he killed them whenever he could. When we took out Saddam we took out a madman, yes, but also the biggest enemy that bin Lade and Iran had in the region. That's why this has been FUBAR since the beginning.

[shanev137]

We can't even imagine what the cost would be IF we were fighting HERE on U.S.A. SOIL!!!!!!
----------

What an utterly moronic statement. What kind of ships do you think all those stone throwing terrorists would have shown up on here at America's doorstep?

The fact of the matter is that on 9/11 ---WE--- LET THE TERRORISTS INTO THE UNITED STATES.....they never "invaded".

[omega39-2009]

500 Billion pissed into the wind and the idiot is trying to save a few hundred Million over 10 years by cutting Medicaid.

[elz523]

But what if it failed? What if an increasingly troublesome Saddam Hussein provoked repeated military responses from the United States? What if he grew more powerful and eventually had to be overthown by force? What if he sponsored a terrorist attack on the United States?


This is garbage! What if? This guy must have gotten his PHD from a cereal box!

[the74blaster]

It is interesting to note that when the Bush administration and their conservative allies were politicizing 911 to lead us into this war, its cost was estimated at 50 billion. Now we are hearing it could be a trillion dollars.

We were told that if we didn%u2019t invade Sadam would use his alliance with Bid laden and it would come at the price of a mushroom cloud. There were supposed to be WMDs scattered all over Iraq if you believed Colon Powells presentation at the UN.

When it became obvious there were no WMDs in Iraq this administration quickly flip flopped their position and stated the invasion was worth it because Sadam was out of power.

The facts are very simple. We cannot trust anything this administration tells us because reality has turned out to something completely different from what is being disclosed.

Remember Mission Accomplished!

Considering the credibility this administration has, there is no way they can even hope to build an international alliance to help us stabilize the Middle East.

An international alliance will only be possible when this administrations term is up and we have a new president that can restore our credibility in 2008.

Hopefully, we won%u2019t be at war with Iran by then.

[mh4cbs1]

Who ARE these Morons who still buy the NeoCon propoganda that invading Iraq was part of the War On Terror" ???

Will these idiots please do their patriotic duty to become informed citizens, then pressure congress for impeachment, then JAIL for Cheney and Bush.

Fake WMDs, Fake Aluminum Tubes, Fake yellowcake uranium from Niger, Fake "intelligence sources", Fake bio-mobile labs, Fake UN violations, Fake Al Queada Links to Saddam, Fake color coded terror alerts to keep us good and scared, Fake Flag-waving patriotism.... ALL LIES. Do your homework.

3,200 dead troops, tems of thousands maimed for life, a couple hundred thousand dead Iraqis, cities in ruins, War Costs of %600 Billion (so far), we are LESS SAFE, the region has been destabailized, Iran's power has been increased...

The troops are at WAR, America is at the Mall. The rich are spending massive tax cuts, the national debt is exploding...

What a $*#*!@-ing DISASTER!

WAKE UP and join your patriotic fellow citizens protesting this horrific needless WAR!!

JAIL BUSH JAIL CHENEY and throw away the key

[randalds]

Who ARE these Morons who still buy the NeoCon propoganda that invading Iraq was part of the War On Terror" ???

Posted by mh4cbs1 at 11:56 PM : Mar 18, 2007

Personally I think that many of them do realize that Bush screwed them too (I mean you'd have to be a drooling idiot to believe anything he says any more, though there are a few of those who post here). I think they're like people who've been conned by a really good con man. They know they've been fu*cked, but they're too embarrassed to admit it. they don't want anyone else, esp not democrats, to know that they were stupid enough to fall for Bush's lies. What we need is a sort of 12 step program. A Bushacoholics Anonymous for people to embarrassed to admit the truth. They were had. They were conned. They were hoodwinked.

[alphaa10-2009]

"I think it's hard to argue it's not affordable," said Steven M. Kosiak, director of budget studies at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, a defense think tank in Washington, D.C."
---
Yeah. Right... like this country could afford any of Bush's criminal neglect and incompetence. Waste is waste.

Iraq is affordable? Think again. Try telling that to the medical researchers struggling to fund a cure for cancer, heart disease, birth defects. Their programs are history, because two Abrams treads-- blown off by an IED-- cost $2 million. Try telling that to the Boomers (and their own children) who must endure the fiscal debt load for decades.

Try telling that to Americans who have noticed a sharp drop in the quality of the social fabric-- little things like care for seniors, and VA services for even Iraq vets. Everyone seems to be short of the money to provide the essentials
we expect of a decent society.

Meanwhile, like a reincarnated Albred E. Newman, George ("What? Me Worry?) Bush is scrambling to save himself from his own schemes, gone awry-- but at our expense, we can be sure.

Iraq never was self-defense and has no connection to 911. Iraq is Bush's Boondoggle-- let him pay for it. Too bad, however, for the 3200 American dead who trusted Bush knew what he was doing.

[seniorengine]

A few weeks ago when the southern US had the destructive tornados, Bush was his usual clueless self when he proclaimed that everyone would be getting 40,000 dollars. I about puked. He's given billions and billions away in Iraq to people who don't want us in their country. Bush and Cheney proclaimed at the start of the war that "it was time for a regime change in Iraq." I think most Americans would agree that it is now time for a regime change in the United States.

[tbweb]

Iraq is like that black hole in outer space consuming our national treasure with nothing to show for it! What about the cost? Iraq is killing the U.S. current and future treasury too! How do we pay for this? The U.S. is spending billions of dollars in Iraq like its play money, these are real dollars and our kids will be paying for Iraq for decades to come! The U.S. is fighting in Iraq and paying for the war with credit cards! Will that be debit or credit the Chinese ask us, just sign here!

[dallison7]

Bin Laden and his Al Qaeda group are gleefully watching as their plan comes together. America goes deeper and deeper into debt, our military is streached to the breaking point. I doubt Bin Laden expected Bush to veer off and attack Iraq... or maybe he did. I wish we had a president as smart as Bin Laden.

[bluestardad]

Remember AIPAC, Israeli and Saudi Arabian Neocon Supporters are pushing America to fight their wars for them!

Founded in 1953 by Isaiah L. "Si" Kenen, AIPAC's original name was the American Zionist Committee for Public Affairs. According to UCLA political science professor and author, Steven Spiegel, "the tension between the Eisenhower administration and Israeli supporters was so acute that there were rumors that the administration would investigate the American Zionist Council. Therefore, an independent lobbying committee was formed, which years later was renamed [AIPAC]." [SPIEGEL, p. 52].[citation needed] Today, AIPAC has over 100,000 members.[1]
Activities and stated goals
AIPAC's stated purpose is to lobby the Congress of the United States on issues and legislation "to ensure that the U.S.-Israel relationship is strong so that both countries can work together" to meet the challenges of "stopping Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons, fighting terrorism and achieving peace".[2] It regularly meets with members of Congress and holds events where it can share its views. It also provides analysis of the voting records of U.S. federal representatives and senators with regard to how they voted on legislation related to Israel. The New York Times described AIPAC on July 6, 1987 as "a major force in shaping United States policy in the Middle East."
READ AIPAC AD BELOW
http://www.aipac.org/forms/join_aipacClubs.htm

[anopinion1]

president doushe bag should be put on trial in the iraqi court system with a huge amount of media coverage. and then when they decide to hang him we make it a pay per view event and sell it to people all around the world. (at least the money gotten from the pay per view could pay for a little bit of this idiotic war on iraq)

[huskerarmy]

It's been worth every penny... to Halliburton, the neo-cons and their GOP tools.

[forthepeaple]

why dont you all in the media that say we are here to help americans find out the truth about the whitehouse and bush,rumsfeld,and vp *** cheney, why wont you just say the truth to us stupid americans out here in america. because thats what the whitehouse kiss *** press secrutary thinks all i see comming out of his mouth is trash,lies on top of lies. i really hope he sleeps good knowing that he to is responsable for all the murders of our troops..so getting back to what i was saying, how about haveing a big round table section and let me ask all congress and the press secretary god i hate him. some simple questions that all america wants to know....and yes they will not know what i would ask. and all this would be on tv radio,newspapers,showing all america what they think and while i am here why haven;t any news media put this story in the faces of all ameica and americans than why hasn't the media been all over this with all of washington..go to .. www.scoop.co.nz and look under search for pentagon whistle-blower on iraq/iran.. after reading the 9 pages tell me why we americans shouln't have been told about this sooner,, why why why. ALL IN WASHINGTON WILL NOT LIKE WHAT WE AMERICANS THINK AND WILL DO,THATS WHY AMERICANS ARE GOING TO VOTE IN A NEW GOVERNMENT CALLED AMERICANS FOR AMERICA AND OUR COLORS ARE RED WHITE AND BLUE. SO VOTE FOR HIM DAVID A BELANGER FOR PRESIDENT AND CHANGE WILL BE DONE.SEND A NOTE AT [e-mail]

[omega39-2009]

I think they're like people who've been conned by a really good con man. They know they've been fu*cked, but they're too embarrassed to admit it. they don't want anyone else, esp not democrats, to know that they were stupid enough to fall for Bush's lies...

RandalDS,
There is a theory called Cognitive Dissonance that explains this.

* if someone is called upon to learn something which contradicts what they already think they know %u2014 particularly if they are committed to that prior knowledge %u2014 they are likely to resist the new learning. Even Carl Rogers recognised this. Accommodation is more difficult than Assimilation, in Piaget's terms.
* and%u2014counter-intuitively, perhaps%u2014if learning something has been difficult, uncomfortable, or even humiliating enough, people are less likely to concede that the content of what has been learned is useless, pointless or valueless. To do so would be to admit that one has been "had", or "conned".

[adventurepa]

The real questions should be how much of that money could have been used to buy textbooks, improve roads, feed the poor, be given back to the taxpayer?

[bandit931]

I currently live in Germany, and have just sat here reading all of these posts. And it makes me sad. Its easy for you to look the other way or blame Bush, but it is you that should be blaming yourselves. How many of you have ever helped anyone but yourselves. 9/11 cost New York 100 billion and 3000 lives and that was one day. The terrorists that did that were not just like, oh glad we made our point now we can stop. Bush might not have made all the right decisions but action must be taken. Hilter was happy to see the Europeans sit back while he overtook them. What did trying to delay a problem, hoping it would go away get us then. A war that cost 13 trillion and 50 million lives. Wake up America

[omega39-2009]

Let%u2019s see, fifteen of the nineteen 9/11 hijackers were Saudi, the wife of the Saudi ambassador was investigated for funneling money to two of the hijackers. The Saudi government buys school books and funds the madrasas that indoctrinate hate of America and what did Bush do, invade Iraq and walk around holding hands with the Saudi prince. If you want to blame anyone Bandit, start with the disastrous foreign policy pursued by both political parties over the last half century.

[yorkark]

I will bet that this figuer will double when then the cost of the injuries are added to the cost of this war. Then there is the lost to families of parents,children, lost income there is not way to put a dollar figuer on these things. War is HELL and this was a needless war.

[random_radar]

Great post, omega39! Cognitive dissonance explains a lot in America's social pathology.

[ademeyer]

And if we had put that money into making a paradise of Afghanistan we would have won world wide admiration and inspired Iraqis to overthrow Saddam themselves.

[ademeyer]

We could have made a paradise in Afghanistan with that money, inspiring world wide respect and fighting the appeal of Isalmic extremists across the globe. Iraqis would have felt inspired to overthrow Saddam themselves seeing the positive positive effect democracy can have and the US would have made many allies. How's that for a what if, Professor Davis?

[bandit931]

Thats the best post I have read on here Omega39 and I agree with you. But in terms of a solution...pulling out of Iraq to save lives and money? I just cannot seem to understand what America thought was gonna happen in 4 years, that there would be peace and love? Its gonna take time, money, more lives, and above all education of the people. I wish more countries would support the US but like always the UN likes to stay neutral when it sees a problem. I dont agree that war is the answer but right now terrorists are doing exactly that causing terror, targeting innocent people throughout the world. And the US leaving would only justify their cause.

[us_infidel]

Probably not as much as we waste on failed government school education programs and welfare.

[us_infidel]

And the US leaving would only justify their cause.
Posted by bandit931 at 12:05 PM : Mar 19, 2007

You are correct. Please don't judge America or even 20% of America based on what you read here.

There is a regular crew of flaming left wing liberals who have all the answers. They are regulars on here and seem to make a living bashing America and Bush. I guess that's all they have.

[sshard]

The reason and hope of many for a win in Iraq, is a win will destroy and deny a sanctuary the terrorists and Americans, can live in peace and security. But I wonder, will this be the end to the threat of terrorism. Southern Thailand is a scene of a brutal struggle between government and Islamic insurgents. If we %u2018win%u2019 in Iraq, then is the next line to be drawn in Thailand to stop Islamic insurgents from establishing sanctuary? We cannot solve this problem alone, not when we are losing proud men and women every day. The Bush administration needs to realize, we need a new strategy. Military might and money alone is not the answer, especially when its overwhelmingly our blood and our money. The US must mend fences with our allies, swallow its pride and listen to them as equal partners. By giving up this unilateral macho policy, can we ever hope to %u2018win%u2019 and find the peace and security for ourselves, for our children and for the world.

[usvetjoker]

I find it impossible to understand how growing support for our troops is being ignored by the press in this country. The bulk of support seems to be by the very people who have the most to loose, vets and familys. I suppose they (being the majority) at least are able to understand what happens when terroism is allowed to go unchecked.

[canyoutellme-2009]

This is ridiculous... "War on terror"... What are we really fighting anyway? That others who disagree with their "enemies" will use terror to scare them and defeat them? How in the world do you "win" a war of what goes on in people's minds? You can't! Even if we wipe out all the religous extremists in the world... there will STILL be murders, rapes, etc... and those who will use explosives 'n other such things to cause terror. Terror is a fact of LIFE as a human being. It SUCKS, but it will always be there. it has been there since the beginning of TIME and will continue long after we're gone. Republicans living in FEAR of Terror are ridiculous. You cannot fight a war on TERROR because TERROR has no time boundaries ... EVER! If you fight a war with a country because they've attacked you or something, that's different because when you wipe out the country or win that war, it's over (for the time being) with that nation. But when you fight a war on ideas and human behavior, it's by definition, UNWINNABLE. Geezus CHRIST people... get with it and get our people out of IRAQ, a war we CANNOT win.

[scott4261]

I have to ask the question again: HOW has the war in Iraq been worth it? Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden couldn't have conspired to attack the U.S. because they hated each other. Saddam was secular and Osama is a religious extremist. This war was not worth one drop of American blood. And the very occupation by the U.S. has created a vacuum for terrorist activity where there was none before.

And for what? To benefit Exxon/Mobil, Halliburton, and KBR? I believe that one need only to follow the war profiteering money trail to find out just how much is wrong with this war and why I detest what is happening now.

And before the Bush apologist start bashing my post, let me say this: I get irritated when I am told that I am somehow undermining troop morale, that I hate America, that I'm a traitor, that I'm unpatriotic,.....whatever...you name it....just because I choose to speak out against the actions of this corrupt administration. I love my country and that is why I am willing to speak up.

This war has been a grave error.

[us_infidel]

of this corrupt administration.
This war has been a grave error.
Posted by scott4261 at 01:28 PM : Mar 19, 2007

Corrupt? How so? Let's see all your damning evidence. And I'm not talking about your left wing talking points......I'm talking about hard evidence!

I agree, the war was an error. But unlike your kind, Americans don't stab their president in the back in front of the whole world. Pay attention.....if you badmouth the president, and the president sent the troops, then you are badmouthing the troops. Get it?

[canyoutellme-2009]

Scott, i'm with you on that!

Let's see...

Republicans say they SUPPORT the troops. They willingly send our men and women into a battle with LESS than appropriate equipment. They are slaughtered every day for a war we supposedly won a long time ago. They're fighting a war of ideas which they cannot win. BUT hey ,they support the troops by putting that yellow sticker on their SUV's; wonderful support.

Democrats on the other hand, value the LIVES of the troops by wanting them back home. What more could we dems do to prove we support the troops? We don't want them killed over Bush's war on ideas which cannot be won. INstead, we want them here so they can be with their families and friends and LIVE. And this is somehow emboldening the enemy? HUH?

have the cons realized that our military is stretched so thin that if we DO get some kind of attack on our homeland right now, we're COMPLETELY vulnerable?? Did you know that? Yet DEMS are the ones who hate America?? Sounds to me like the CONs are the ones who HATE america and our troops and their families. Geez, everything that is going on proves it. They hate America SO MUCH that they're willing to vote away the freedoms of citizens (a la the Patriot Act, what a farce).

For once CONs, stop thinking about who will win an election and do what is RIGHT!!!!! What is RIGHT is we get out of this ridiculous war based on FALSE info and attend to matters at HOME in AMERICA... you know, the America that you CONs say that we DEMs hate.

[dallison7]

if you badmouth the president, and the president sent the troops, then you are badmouthing the troops. Get it?
Posted by US_Infidel


That is about the most ignorant thing I have ever read. I personally spit on Bush while I honor the troops.

[canyoutellme-2009]

US Infidel, you said..

"I agree, the war was an error. But unlike your kind, Americans don't stab their president in the back in front of the whole world. Pay attention.....if you badmouth the president, and the president sent the troops, then you are badmouthing the troops. Get it? "

That's such bullsh*t and you know it. We bad mouth the president because he's wrong on just about EVERYTHING including this war. "The war was an error" you say. If he had not gone into the war in the first place (LIKE THE DEMOCRATS WHO ARE NOT IN OFFICE TRIED TO TELL HIM OVER AND OVER AGAIN), then there would be no troops dead in Iraq today. THAT is supporting the troops. Blindly going into war and then YOU supporting him solely because he is the president thereby getting THOUSANDS of innocent Americans KILLED in the process is NOT supporting the troops. YOU are directly responsible for their deaths in a war that we cannot win. You are implicit in their deaths and not a D*MNED thing you say can get you out of it.

Supporting your troops is wanting them ALIVE, not purposefully wanting them to DIE for an idealistic war which has created MORE terrorists than EVER before. Unbelieveable.

BTW, your intention on wiping out terrorism is honorable. EVERYONE has that same exact goal. However, the ability to do so is like wiping out the balance between good and evil. It is too grand an idea. It's like saying "We want world peace and will kill everyone who is against it to get there"

[sshard]

When the House committee approved a bill calling for the withdrawal of the troop, and required troops have proper training, equipment and rest, Bush said all thing were unacceptable. His reason was it would handcuff his generals. I can see his problem with the withdrawal section, but the other parts. And this is saying he supports the troops?

[canyoutellme-2009]

I've come to the conclusion that US_infidel is just a troll, trying to stir up trouble. He's constantly given proof and reason and yet pretends like it has never been said and just continues to throw in the republiCON talking points. He's a fake and he knows it. For some reason, he's getting his kicks on a message board which to me, shows that he is not taking these issues of Life and Death seriously.

If he is serious, then that's scary.. he's willing to blindly follow anything his master Bush tells him to do... truly sick.

[scott4261]

US_Infidel,

Unlike you and others who cannot find fault with Bush on ANYTHING, I read and get my news from sources other than FOX News. It takes quite a bit more research because the notion of a "liberal media" is a myth perpetuated by the Limbaughs and Hannitys of the broadcating business it you guys just eat it up. Even to call CBS "liberal media" is a joke.

The list of corruption is way too long for one post. Off the top of my head, though; if the I. Scooter Libby trial, Valerie Plame, the Department of Justice scandal, the balnatant stealing of elections and suppression of eligible voters, and the Iraq war along with the war profiteering that drives it are not enough to convince you, then you are as myopic as they come.

But then, you are one of the most consistant of the Bush apologists on these blogs. You enjoy your punch.

[scott4261]

US_Infidel,

Unlike you and others who cannot find fault with Bush on ANYTHING, I read and get my news from sources other than FOX News. It takes quite a bit more research because the notion of a "liberal media" is a myth perpetuated by the Limbaughs and Hannitys of the broadcasting business it you guys just eat it up. Even to label CBS as "liberal media" is a joke.

The list of corruption is way too long for one post. Off the top of my head, though; if the I. Scooter Libby trial, Valerie Plame, the Department of Justice scandal, the blatant stealing of elections and suppression of eligible voters, and the Iraq war (along with the war profiteering that drives it) are not enough to convince you, then you are as myopic as they come.

But then, you are one of the most consistent of the Bush apologists on these blogs. You enjoy your punch.

[coffeehead-2009]

Between the theft of personal income via banking scandals - costing taxpayers billions *enron/lucent/etc....
The raping of taxpayers fund to feed private corps. and privatized "detention" centers, privatized religious patronage for profit....
We could ALL be millionaires in this country.


Its largest obtainable government contract is with the State Department, for providing security to US diplomats and facilities in Iraq. That contract began in 2003 with the company's $21 million no-bid deal to protect Iraq proconsul Paul Bremer.
June 2004 Blackwater has been awarded $750 million in State Department contracts alone.The size and scope of the government contracts awarded to Halliburton in connection with the war in Iraq are significantly greater than was previously disclosed and demonstrate the U.S. military's increasing reliance on for-profit corporations to run its logistical operations. Independent experts estimate that as much as one-third of the monthly $3.9 billion cost of keeping U.S. troops in Iraq is going to independent contractors.

The value of Halliburton's Iraq contracts has crossed the $10 billion threshold. Halliburton has now received $8.3 billion in Iraq work under its LOGCAP troop support contract and $2.5 billion under its no-bid Restore Iraqi Oil (RIO) contract, a total of $10.8 billion.

[dallison7]

You right wingnuts need to face the truth, Bush is a 'one-trick pony'... HE LIES!!

[zoroastor]

US Infidel,

You and your ilk are naive, knee-jerk reactionaries who believes EVERYTHING you read that fits your idealogy - even when it is completely unsupported with facts. Everything you hear that does not support your PARANOID worldview, you catergorize as a conspiricy from the evil media.
You continue to support an administration in the face of irrefutable evidence indicating wrongdoing on every level. You do so in three steps, deny, distract and defend.
"Gonzales didn't lie!"
"Oh! Hey, look over there..."
"He had to lie to protect patriotism and national security!"
I am so sick and tired of the neo-cons WHINING about the liberal media, the alleged moral vacuum of the Democrats and the historically innaccurate fiscal irresponsibility of the left (in fact history says the opposite). It has all the tone and tenor of a SPOILED CHILD who cries when he or she doesn't get his way, and smirks and flaunts when she does.
The neo-cons, and thereby the entire Republican party by association, is a JOKE!
People like you should not be allowed to vote.