NEW YORK, Aug. 24, 2008
The Killings In Haditha
Marine Tells 60 Minutes He's Sorry Iraqi Civilians Were Killed, But Insists He Made Right Decision
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Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich speaks publicly about the Haditha killings for the first time with 60 Minutes correspondent Scott Pelley. (CBS)
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Interactive Iraq: 5 Years At War Five years after the U.S.-led invasion, the war wears on.
In that second house was the Younis family. A 41-year-old man, a 35-year-old woman, a 28-year-old woman, and the children -- Noor, 14; Sabah, 9; Zaineb, 3; and Aisha, 2. They were all killed by Wuterich's men.
How does he explain that?
"We reacted to how we were supposed to react to our training and I did that to the best of my ability. You know the rest of the Marines that were there, they did their job properly as well. Did we know that civilians were in there? No. Did we go in those rooms, you know, it would have been one thing, if we went in those rooms and looked at everyone and shot them. You know, we cleared these houses the way they were supposed to be cleared," he says.
Prosecutors have charged Wuterich with murdering 18 people. Among them the people at the car and those in the first house when he ordered his men to “shoot first, ask questions later.” Prosecutors say he shot six people in the second house. Wuterich told 60 Minutes that he never fired his weapon. The rules said Wuterich and his Marines were supposed to identify a threat before firing, but the rules also said they could use all necessary force to defend themselves.
"In an insurgency situation, Marines don't get a second chance If they aren't able to fire first, they die," says Neil Puckett, who, along with Mark Zaid, are Wuterich’s civilian attorneys.
How can they make the argument that these killings are within the law?
"They're within the law because they were not done without legal justification or excuse," Puckett says. "They were done in a combat environment, in a tactical situation, in order to protect the lives of the remaining Marines who survived the IED that day. And that makes them lawful."
Zaid adds: "And these three one Marines knew -- their buddies and colleagues who had tried to do similar take downs of houses where they tried, in fact, to knock first and shoot later. And the Marines who tried that were dead."
60 Minutes wanted to know more about how Marines face this choice - between killing civilians or risking their men. We spoke to a Marine who led a platoon through some of the most hostile territory in Iraq. Donovan Campbell, now a Reserve Captain, estimates he cleared at least 50 houses.
"We have a saying: 'Always know your target and what’s beyond it. And no matter what, whether you think you’re probably going kill everyone inside, you still need to know exactly what your target is. 'Who is it that I’m shooting when I go through the door,'" Campbell says.
Campbell was not in Haditha and he makes no judgment about what the Marines did there. But he told 60 Minutes, in general, identifying the enemy is critical and has everything to do with the amount of force used to clear a house.
Are there circumstances under which you’d declare an entire house hostile and go in with the intention of just killing everyone inside?
Campbell says yes. "You have to have the context of heavy enemy involvement in the area and then I think you have to have a more specific operating context that deals specifically with that house. You know there are several insurgents inside and you need to go in and get them out because they are attacking you."
How does one know? Campbell tells Pelley almost always, you have to see them.
"In your opinion," asks Pelley," you have to lay eyes on someone with a weapon in that house in order to assault the house and kill everyone inside?”
Campbell says, "Yes, but you never go in with the intention of I’m going to kill every living soul inside."
Produced by Shawn Efran and Solly Granatstein
© MMVIII, CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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See all 412 CommentsThis young man, a volunteer, is a United States Marine, who defended his men, and his country, exactly as he was trained. That innocents die in war is always tragic, but sadly expected, to some degree. The innocent Iraqi victims, in this case, were not lined up and executed in cold blood. They were in a zone that was supposed to have been evacuated, where suspected terrorists had just been running from the site of an IED explosion that killed and injured Marines. The Marines pursued and neutralized the threat, per their training.
Sgt. Wuterich, I thank you for your service, and sacrifice, and I am glad to know that you made it home safely. I hope that you survive this ordeal, too. Please continue to hold your head high.
As far as I am concerned, 60 Minutes, and Scott Pelley in particular, you are fired.
It is not Scott Pelley or 60 Minute''s job to tell us what your personal opinion is... it is your job to report it responsibly and comprehensively and allow us to make our own decisions.
Mr. Pelley treated a soldier of war, who had risked his life at the direction of our elected officials, with disrespect, aggression and hostility.
This is a conflict were the enemy is invisible and you must assume the worst - knocking first is not an option.
I give thanks to and pray for Sgt Wuderick and all of our soldiers of war - past and present. This is not a Democrat or Republican issue, this is not a conservative or liberal issue, this is not a pro-war or anti-war issue.
God bless this young man and other soldiers like him - they risk their lives and endure what most of us cannot even imagine - they should come home to welcoming, grateful and compassionate nation... regardless of our personal politics.
How dare that man sit with his manicured fingernails pointed at a soldier and refer to him as a murderer. How dare he judge the actions of men in combat while he hides behind his microphone.
I have never faced combat, never served my country. But I surely have a better understanding of kill or be killed than what your experienced reporter obviously has. I absolutely have more respect than Mr. Pelley for the ''job'' that those men and women do everyday, and for far less compensation and gratitude than what Mr. Pelley enjoys on a daily basis.
CBS, you have hit a new low in allowing such an interview to be aired. It was shameful, unAmerican, unpatriotic and simply, border-lined traitor-ship.
Unless Scott Pelley is released from his contract with 60 minutes and removed from the news team(s) of CBS after a public apology, I will never view another CBS news program. Nor will I purchase any type of merchandise advertised during the episodes. Know why? Because Marines like that are out there fighting to ensure my RIGHT TO CHOOSE!
I hope that Mr. Pelley loses as much sleep over his deplorable interview as our young men and women will. I doubt it, after all, what life threatening decision has he made in the last year? Whether he should use the elevator or stairs?
Frank Wuterich, if your reading these, In Texas you have a huge fan who thanks you for your service and especially thanks you for bringing yourself and others alive. Good Job!
be real! until you''re in their boots, you had no right to interview this young man under scrutiny! i agree with all the negative commens that was presented on this issue.it was indeed a terrible tradegy, these young men have to live with this for the rest of their lives. especially the people who voted to call up our armed forces to fight in the middle east and who are not held accountable for putting our armed forces and innocent people in harms way. put part of the scrutiny on these guys,. but no way this will ever happen! wherever there are arms and suicide bombers, there is a fine line when split second decisions about survival have to be made. the lives of these soldiers are ruined no matter what the outcome may be. what does this do to the moral of our armed forces? just take a chance to be slaughtered by an unseen enemy! i pray that everyone can get on with their lives. i want to thank the men and women in the armed forces for their sacrifice!
Your investigation should be directed at the instigator Bush - The Arabs own Bush and the Iraq war represent the Arabs control of Bush using our troops to destroy Iraq - the Marines being ambushed and killed in Iraq are the result - and
that should be the direction of your investigation and war crimes accusations.
the instigator Bush should be subjected to your questions - Bush is an Arab arbitrator and administrator - owned by the Saudis - therefore the
questions asked should not be directed at Marines being ambushed - but at the benedict arnold bush that thinks he is a royal arab S O B.
the instigator Bush should be subjected to your questions - Bush is an Arab arbitrator and administrator - owned by the Saudis - therefore the
questions asked should not be directed at Marines being ambushed - but at the benedict arnold bush that thinks he is a royal arab S O B.
the instigator Bush should be subjected to your questions - Bush is an Arab arbitrator and administrator - owned by the Saudis - therefore the
questions asked should not be directed at Marines being ambushed - but at the benedict arnold bush that thinks he is a royal arab S O B.
In the current INSURGENCY (misnamed "Iraq War")legitimate civilian authority is absent
Two things.
1. it''s a resistance movement - not an insurgency. There''s a big difference.
2. the reason there is no civilian authority is because the US illegally invaded an overthrew their government.
US troops should be withdrawn immediately - within six months of Obama''s election I hope. Then murdering thugs like Sgt. Wuterich will have to go back to video games instead of playing out their urge to kill on real live people.
And Scott Pelley - you rock as far as I''m concerned. When interviewing a heartless killer - one should look sickened - as Mr. Pelley did. Good job 60 Minutes.
In the current INSURGENCY (misnamed "Iraq War")legitimate civilian authority is absent, hostiles are not in uniform, and indistinguishable from the civilian population.
Scott Pelley and CBS deserve to be censured for their emotional handling of the SSgt Weuterich interview.
If fault is to be found, lay it on Washington for placing our young men in this situation.
In the current INSURGENCY (misnamed "Iraq War")legitimate civilian authority is absent, hostiles are not in uniform, and indistinguishable from the civilian population.
Scott Pelley and CBS deserve to be censured for their emotional handling of the SSgt Weuterich interview.
If fault is to be found, lay it on Washington for placing our young men in this situation.
Maj Luther
Camp Fallujah, Iraq
There is a fog of war, and this war is very foggy. The enemy is not clearly identified and may be anybody...dressed as a civilian, wearing street clothes, intent on doing harm and then disappearing into the urban environment. In hindsight I''m sure everyone is sorry that innocent persons were killed, including SSgt Wuterich. But don''t put our young men in harms way and then try to second guess them on their decisions under duress. I have faith that the US Marine Corps will fully investigate the allegations against SSgt Wuterich and, taking all factors into account, make an unbiased judgement on his actions in this matter. But make no mistake, you and I and everyone in this country are just as responsible for what happens in this war. So don''t ask SSgt Wuterich what he dreams about at night. Ask yourself.
Sincerely,
JOHN D KESSLER
Ex- Petty Officer, USCG
Ex- Captain, USAF
Dear Mr. Pelley,
I am so upset, I hardly know where to start. I cannot determine from your interview with SSgt. Wuterich whether you are an "actor" or a news reporter. I do not have to do a bio on you to know that you have never been placed in a similar situation or forced to make similar decisions.
The emotional spin you tried to place on this interview and incident is something we can all do without. Bottom line , he was there and you were not. Next bottom line; we ( and this includes you) put young men like him in harms way through the actions of our government and expect him to make the best decisions and take the best action that, through his experience and training, he knows how. We are all of us responsible, internalize it. Last bottom line; I am sure that , in harms way, he did the the best that we demanded of him, and he of himself.
JOHN D KESSLER
EX-Petty Officer, USCG
EX-Captain, USAF
Your interview with SSGT. Frank Wuterich sounded more like you had already decided he was guilty, than an interview.
I want to commend that young man for keeping his cool and not falling for your discusting tricks.
What really urks me is these young men risk their lives on a daily basis for our freedom and then ignorant people like you Scott judge them on civilian terms. Everyone forgets these soldiers after they come home. They don''t get the respect they deserve, nor the medical help or transitional help after they come home. If he was your son you wouldn''t be so quick to judge him.
Yes they are trained killers, what else do you expect them to be. The Marines are taught to kill and make split second life or death decisions. This young man followed his training and orders to the T.
You have no right to judge his actions. I don''t see you out there risking your neck for our freedom. These charges are rediculous.
I pray he gets off and that Americans will wake up and give our young men and women the respect and any help they may need when they come home from war.
Shame on you Scott Pelley and 60 minutes for your unfair and biased so called interview!
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