General Won't Apologize For Gays Comment

Gen. Peter Pace Said Homosexuality Is "Immoral" And The Military Should Not Condone It

(CBS/AP)  The Pentagon's top general expressed regret Tuesday that he called homosexuality immoral, a remark that drew a harsh condemnation from members of Congress and gay advocacy groups.

In a newspaper interview Monday, Marine Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, likened homosexual acts to adultery and said the military should not condone it by allowing gays to serve openly in the armed forces.

In a statement Tuesday, he said he should have focused more in the interview on the Defense Department policy about gays — and "less on my personal moral views."

That didn't sit well with gay veterans like Eric Alva, who was visited by his Commander in Chief after losing a leg in Iraq, CBS News national security correspondent David Martin reports.

"I think it was an insensitive and disrespectful remark to the thousands of men and women who are currently serving in the armed forces actually following the guidelines of 'don't ask, don't tell,' where they don't express their open orientation because they're not allowed to," Alva said.

No one knows how many gays are quietly serving in uniform, although one unofficial estimate puts it at 65,000, Martin reports. Whatever the number, Brian Fricke was one of them. He's a Marine who served nine months in al Anbar.

"He's saying you can still serve and die for your country, but don't tell if you're gay, because then you're dishonorable; you're immoral," Fricke said.

Pace did not offer an apology, something that had been demanded by gay rights groups.

"It's bad enough that he thinks that. It's even worse that he would be foolish enough to say that publicly," Arlene Isaacsen of the Massachusetts Gay and Lesbian Political Caucus told CBS Radio station WBZ-AM. "It is crass prejudice, crass bigotry and brazen ignorance, and it's disgraceful to think that someone in his position would think in these terms."

"General Pace's comments are outrageous, insensitive and disrespectful to the 65,000 lesbian and gay troops now serving in our armed forces," the advocacy group Servicemembers Legal Defense Network said in a statement on its Web site.

The group, which has represented some of the thousands dismissed from the military for their sexual orientation, demanded an apology.

In an interview Monday with the Chicago Tribune, Pace said he supports the policy, which became law in 1994 and prohibits commanders from asking about a person's sexual orientation.

---

Listen to the Chicago Tribune interview.

---

"I believe homosexual acts between two individuals are immoral and that we should not condone immoral acts," Pace said in the audio recording of the interview posted on the Tribune's Web site. "I do not believe that the armed forces of the United States are well served by saying through our policies that it's OK to be immoral in any way."

Pace's senior staff members said earlier that the general was expressing his personal opinion and did not intend to apologize. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not allowed to speak on the record.

CBS' Susan Roberts reports that the White House agrees that Pace's comments were personal — and that it probably would have been best if he kept them to himself.

Rep. Martin Meehan, who has introduced legislation to repeal the current policy, criticized Pace's comments.

[musty2u]

Finally, a rock solid stance. Now if we could get folks like Barney ***, et al, out of congress and reverse some of the policies that have ruined certain aspects of the military things will be on the right track.

[fryedbread]

He's clearly gay...

[agnim]

Talk from a real man.


The societally worthless homosexual BEHAVIOR is deviance and perversion of the filthiest kind.
This diseased behavior threatens the society because these low lives specifically target the children in order to sodomize and traumatize them and spread the deviance, much as the christian perverts have sodomized and traumatized the children in their churches of child sodomy for generations.

When the society is threatened, it is the OBLIGATION of the no nonsense military men to restore order, less the nation perishes.

[abllyn]

Congrats to a military general who is not afraid of not being politically correct. There is a need for more to stand up and quit cowarding at the special interest groups that support the homosexual lifestyle.

[fryedbread]

Do you bigots just sit at the computer all day waiting to cheer on stuff like this as soon as you see it? Don't you have children to emotionally cripple?

[BlueInWI]

Well, with those remarks we should the number of declared gay males of military age increase dramatically when Chimp/Cheney reinstate he draft or when our natinal guard troops get sent back to Iraq for the 3rd or 4th time. What better way to avoid getting sent off to die for Haliburton and Exxon than to declare oneself gay?...

[his_forever]

I commend Marine Gen. Peter Pace for speaking the truth. We are called to condemn the works of darkness. He called homosexuality immoral. It is.
Law of God says:
You shall not lie with a male as with a woman., because it is an abomination.
Law says to the nation of Israel:
There shall be no *** of the daughters of Israel, also there shall be no sodomite of the sons of Israel.
Law of God also says:
You shall not bring the hire of a *** or the price of a dog into the house of the LORD your God for any vow, for both of these are an abomination before the LORD. Here the word dog is meant a sodomite.

This is made even more clear in the book of Revelation of LORD JESUS CHRIST to Apostle John where it lists those who are excluded from the Holy City Jerusalem descending out of heaven from GOD:

For outside are the dogs and magicians and the immoral and murderers and idolaters and whoever loves to tell lies.
Righteousness exalts a nation. Sin is a disgrace to any people. Proverbs 14:34

[scott4261]

Many of us were saying this in 1993. "Don't ask don't tell" satisfied neither side in the g a y s-in-the-military debate and encouraged those of us who are gay to lie if we are to serve. It is one of many blights on Bill Clinton's record as president. Had he just signed an Executive Order lifting the ban and let the chips fall where they may, this discussion would be moot today.

Truth is; g a y s and lesbians have, are, and will continue to serve honorably in the military. The least we can and should do is to be honest about it. And for God's sake, GROW UP!

[scott4261]

Do you wanna know what's immoral? This illegal war. THAT'S WHAT'S IMMORAL!

[sero5]

Won't be surprised if Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton demands the General ouster

[scott4261]

As the late Barry Goldwater once said during the g a y s-in-the-military debate in 1993, "...the only thing that should matter is whether you can shoot straight."

I may not agreed with Goldwater on everything while he was alive, but he was right on target with that comment!

[scott4261]

"The newspaper said Pace did not address concerns raised by a 2005 government audit that showed some 10,000 troops, including more than 50 specialists in Arabic, have been discharged because of the policy."

------------

Makes no sense we need people who can speak Arabic in the Middle East. Sexual orientation should be a non-issue.

[lambert539]

Hats off to General Pace!!! You watch, CBS and see how many Americans stand behind this man for his boldness! My husband and I are Amazing Race fans, but Sun. night we decided we couldn't take it anymore with the gay's kissing and hugging and holding hands. You should be ashamed to air such disgusting stuff. We will never accept wrong behavior, the news media, congress and the senate will never be able to cram such perversion down our throats any longer!!! I am going to encourage every one I know to no longer support any of your programing with all the ludeness. I will be contacting AFA, The O'Reilly Factor and Hannity & Colmes concerning your programing so that much attention will be brought to it in an effort to stop it. It is time for Americans to fight back as we have let it go on way too long!!
Diane C. Lambert

[nyckate]

bsrasmus- bush is despised not because he's a christian- but because he's not - he's shown no sign of possessing morals, ethics, values nevermind abiliteis, leadership qualities.

There's more to being a christian than shreiking "LOOK AT ME I'M A CHRISTIAN" - and Bush and his cronies have lied, thieved and bullied their way through the White House. If that's your idea of Christianity you need to start over.

[scott4261]

Do you bigots just sit at the computer all day waiting to cheer on stuff like this as soon as you see it? ...
Posted by fryedbread at 10:25 PM

---------
Yes, as a matter of fact, they do!

[scott4261]

The Republicans are just searching for ways to con the American public to vote in their lying, thieving, robber baron party once again. They are grasping at straws and this time most people can see right through it.

[scott4261]

bsrasmus, homosexual s e x is not even the issue. People who happen to be gay or lesbian should be allowed to serve openly in the military. We were are and will continue to serve honorably. The s e x is and should be private, just as it should be for heterosexuals. One's sexuality has absolutely no bearing on whether that person will be a good soldier.

[nyckate]

bsrasmus - truth is the born-agains love 'repenters' - which is why Bush repented and why Newt's busy repenting now too - bron-agains don't care if the so-called repenter is speaking the truth - all they care about is the superficial screeching of "I REPENT"!!!

But seriously - if they weren't so not-so-bright they'd have realized long ago that Bush destroyed his brain with booze and drugs with years of abuse - long before he repented!!

[scott4261]

Again, the words of conservative icon, Barry Goldwater, "...the only thing that should matter is whether you can shoot straight."

[oimiass]

Here we go again.... When it comes to all sensitive issues, people have a blind spot, so let me clarify the Gen's main point: openly IMMORAL people don't deserve a place in the military.

Well, according to the General, that includes gay people and adulterers. If we decide to expel everyone that falls into those categories from the military, I'm sure we'd find it hard to put together a serious force in the first place. And if we expanded that definition to liars, drunks, fraudsters, etc., we'd have no military at all.

No wonder Jesus admonished us: Let only s/he who's without sin hurl the first stone...

[his_forever]

Lord Jesus talked about what to expect prior to His second coming. He says thinks will be as bad as they were in sodom and Gommorah during the time of Lot and as immoral as they were during the days of Noah:

Just as it happened in the days of Noah, such will it be in the days of the Son of Man. For they were eating and drinking, and marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Naoh entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed every man.
And again, just as it happened in the days of Lot; they were eating and drinking and buying and selling and planting and building, but in the day when Lot went out of Sodom, the LORD sent down a rain of fire and sulphur from heaven, and destroyed them all. Such will be in the day when the Son of Man appears.
That is why LORD JESUS said: Be alert and watch and pray for you do not know the hour when the Son of Man will appear. Will He find faith when He returns?

[scott4261]

....I wouldn't want to be forced to be that close to behavior that I find to be sickeningly perverse....
Posted by bsrasmus at 11:21 PM
----
And why would anyone, gay or straight be allowed to have s e x in the barracks? Come on! A person's private life is his or her own business. Anyway, we have been, are, and will always be in the military and serving honorably. We should be honest about that.

[nothappyatall]

"the military should not condone it by allowing gay soldiers to serve openly, "

Great! let the moron and his hetero buddies all "serve" and get shafted by the army, screwed over for benefits, proper medical care in a failing VA hospital system, and let him and his hetero buddies get THEIR behinds shot at and blown up. Why ANYONE in their right mind would even want to join Bush's illegal unjust little tirade NOW is a mystery to me- as far as I'm concerned mr morality general whats his face is enabling the destruction of OUR economy and everything else by enabling the worst near-dictator this country has had for president.

WHile the news is the army is crying and scrambling for mORE soldiers they can't get, they totally skip goy/les people due to bigotry- FINE, I have to laugh at them and their stupidity cutting off their own nose to spite their faces.

[scott4261]

bsrasmus,

Just because one is open about being gay or lesbian does not mean that person is going to be having s e x in front of you or even in your presence! Not any more than you would be in front of them! Do you realize how crazy that sounds? It's as if you believe a gay guy is going to make out on the pool table in front of you or whatever! Give me a break and grow up!

[scott4261]

No one knows if Bill Clinton is a Christian except for Bill Clinton and the Lord Jesus Christ. As an earlier poster said, regardless of our political differences we would gladly accept Mr. Clinton as a brother in Christ if he has truly repented of his sins and has come to accept Jesus into his heart. But again, that is between Bill and God. None of us truly know his heart or if he's truly repented of his sins.
Posted by singinrick at 11:35 PM
------
Rick, Clinton IS a Christian. And anyway you are right. It is between him and God. Just like my salvation is between me and God.

[scott4261]

Scott4261,

Bill Clinton may be a Christian, but if he is he doesn't act like one. IMO, no true follower of Christ would fight for women to have the right to slaughter their unborn children.
-------

Christians cannot even agree on that issue. Anyway, this discussion is not about abortion(or Clinton, for that matter). Stay on topic, please.

[scott4261]

Do you know that g a y s can serve openly in Israel? In Canada? In the U.K.? Are there any repercussions? No! And a recent poll of the U.S. military shows that 73% don't care! It's a non-issue!

[scott4261]

singinrick,
Abortion is NOT the topic on this thread!

nyckate,

Your logic is really lame and you should do a little more homework before you post such a shallow-minded blog.

I don't want *** teaching my children about Johnny's two dads in school.

I don't want to see *** parading around in drag at some parade.

I don't want *** bastardizing the word "marriage".

I don't think *** deserve to get health care benefits just because they claim to be "married" to someone of the same sexx.

I don't think *** should be allowed special privileges because they claim to be a "minority" group. It's a lifestyle.


I am a hetrosexual, and I have brought up my children teaching them the importance of family values.

I don't question my sexuality. I have never been attracted to someone of my same sexx. I certainly am not hiding my "latent sexuality" either. LOL

I am not afraid of ***. Why should I be? The majority of them fit into society and don't make a habit of displaying their sexual preferences.

General Pace said he supports the Pentagon's "don't ask, don't tell policy" in which gay men and women are allowed in the military as long as they keep their sexual orientation private.

I agree fully with him and he should be given a medal for speaking for so many Americans.

[his_forever]

I wish we will not get down into name calling. Issue is not President Clinton, President Bush, and General Pace. Issue is: Homosexuality is immoral.
We need not attack any individual. We are called to contend earnestly(not savagely) for the precious faith of the Apostles. We are called to speak the truth in love. We should remind ourselves what Apostle Paul said; If I understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not love in my heart, I am nothing.

[lucasnico]

bsrasmus........come on, this guy isn't just a bible believeing born again Christian....he IS God!! He has passed moral judgement about Bill Clinton's fruit.....aren't we taught that only God can do that?

[lucasnico]

bsramus...........judge not, lest you be......

[scott4261]

bsrasmus,

I am a Christian. I am pro-choice. And I'm also gay (in case you haven't figured that out already).

You know what? You and singinrick make me tired! I have to go to bed, because I have to work in the morning.

You may feel better about your salvation if you can point out my sin or Clinton's sin or whatever.... Personally, I think Jesus would be appalled at your behavior. Who are you to judge my relationship with God anyway?

The subject of this discussion is g a y s in the military and General Pace's statement in that regard. I just simply pointed out that we have always and will continue to serve in the military with honor and dignity. And personally, I would rather that we didn't have to pretend we are something we are not in order to serve our country.

Now you can judge me, say I'm not really a Christian, say I'm going to hell, whatever your going to do. I don't care. I know my heart, I know who I am, I know God loves and accepts me. Just remember that you don't really have the right to judge me. ONLY GOD has that right.

But I know you'll still be beating this horse to death in the morning, so I'll see you then.

[susanhelit]

Funny - wonder when General Pace is going to kick all adulterers out of the military?

[rillifane]

One should no more have to conform to the religious shibboleths of one relgion than another. All are equally inane and irrelevant.

The myths of Christians or Jews or Muslims or Hindus or whatever are nothing that any American should have to pay any attention to whatsoever.

[glidescube]

No where in the Bible did Jesus himself speak out against homosexuality. The only place the Bible speaks against homosexuality is in the book of Leviticus; Either that or the various references by the Apostle Paul in the New Testamanet to the same. But Leviticus is same book that tells us not to eat pork or wear clothes made of two Diffrent fabrics. So if you had a McMuffin this morning and are wearing a cotton/polyster mixed shirt you just commited a sinful act on the same level as sleeping with the same ***.

[rillifane]

They are not true so the issue never arises. I am no more willing to waste time speculating of such a possibilty than engaging in a discussion of what constitutes a proper sacrifice to Jupiter Optimus Maximus.

[mallomon]

bsrasmus, I would like to respond to two claims you have made.


First, your most recent statement that "what if the claims of the Bible are true? How true would your statement be?"

First, what if the Bhagavad Gita were true? Or the Tao Te Ching? Or how about the Qur'an? How true would your statements be?

Second, what does it matter? Decisions in government are NOT to be made by purely religious moral codes. Laws should be based on freedom. That's the foundation of the US, not religious morals.

Two *** who love each other and have intercourse with each other, no matter how immoral you think it might be, do not impinge on the freedom of others by so doing. This is very different from what we consider crimes, like bestiality, pedophilia, robbery, and murder, which all impinge significantly on the freedoms and rights of others (be they animal or man).

[mallomon]

My second response is a simple discussion on Christianity, homosexuality, and sin.

There are lines which do indeed appear to show that, according to Christian teachings, homosexual intercourse (not being homosexual) is a sin. The most quoted line to prove this is in a book which also claims that eating shellfish is "an abomination." There were many odd things that were considered sins at that time.

Jesus had absolutely NOTHING to say about homosexuality. You would think if it was as evil and repugnant as some would have us believe, Jesus would at least have mentioned it.

My other point is that sins are sins. Homosexual intercourse is a sin. So is stealing. And adultery. The list goes on and on. And, according to Christianity, all humans sin. To look down on a sinner or pity them because they "commit homosexual acts" is ridiculous, because you sin too. In other words, homosexuals CAN be Christians. If they ask for forgiveness, they have just as much a right to get in to heaven according to Christianity as anyone who asks for forgiveness.

[greco99-2009]

Is he actually saying that *** are as bad as known adulterers such as Rudy Guiliani, Newt Gingrich and John McCain?

(each of whom had affairs without even waiting for a divorce)

I guess these politicians should not serve or be associated with the military?

For Shame...

[greco99-2009]

This silly editor rewrites the word g.a.y. as ***. Is that to indicate that the word g.a.y. is no longer printable?

Should we call it the G-Word now?

[nyckate]

LibDems -

First of all - I stand by the statement - no REAL straight man thinks about *** nevermind talks about them ad nauseum teh way you 'religious-right' do.

Second of all - *** are for the most part earn large incomes they tend to be fairly well education and also spend large quantities of monies. They are just as entitled to a return on their taxes as you are. If my taxes can continue to support the ever-failing Red Southern States who've not ever become self-sufficient since end of Civil War with multiple families and 2nd and 3 and even 4th wives then you can surely contemplate living in a world where *** don't have to hide away - they've always eben around - since before the coming of Christ.

AND - AND - the Bible, as great a book as it is, is the writings not of Jesus but of the apostles's TRANSLATION of what they thought Jesus was saying. If we were to take the Bible as literally as you would want there'd be no American football - cause there's something in the Bible about pigs skin and not touching it..... But right - the 'religious-right' make exceptions and adultry is okie-dokie so long as you are a registered republican and repent for it and *** are okie-dokie in Bush's white house so long as they dress up in a marine's get-up and sneak out the basement (Jeff Gannon).... the hypocracy of the 'religious-right'knows no bounds.

[randalds]

It's not immoral and certainly not as immoral as bombing and murdering 100's of thousand of innocent civilians it this sick joke of a war. Frizzle frazzle frozzale frome, time for this one to come home.

[randalds]

In every civilized Western military ga*ys serve openly and mostly with distinction. Certainly at least as bravely as their straight counterparts and even it's only just as good as them, well what do you expect? Ga*ys are real people. Real human beings who are looking (and fighting) for the exact same thing straight people are. They want peace, love, a family a good job and not to be judged in any manner except by their acts. That's all and in this nation of American dreams they are exactly the right people we are looking for to make our nation whole. I not only accept ga*ys in the military, I welcome their service and contribution to our country. Bravo to you and thank you for what you've done to make our country what it is today. We would not be a free nation without you and your help. Welcome bro's and sisters!

[mikys-2009]

When will you judgemental people start to understand that it's the measure of the person that matters.

It's opinions like the General's that make 'republican christians' so unlikeable.

Who gave you the right to judge?

[greco99-2009]

Oh, now I get it...His superior 'morals' enable him to drop chemical phophrous (shake and bake) weapons on civilians, torture and kill unarmed prisoners, shoot 200,000+ tons of depleted Uranium munitions (where the dust spreads to civilians and his own troops), and does not speak out about KBR kickbacks at Walter Reed that deny his own people adequate care.

And, I thought "Thou Shalt Not Kill" was a moral commandment...

[randalds]

Posted by nyckate at 01:15 AM : Mar 13, 2007

Bravo Kate, though I think you may be preaching to (willfully) deaf ears our voices will overwhelm theirs. The religious right wing is a dying voice at last, but one that we must continue to fight against or, like locusts, they'll come back to infect us again.

[thickredhair]

Gen. Pace thinks g.a.y.s are immoral

I think Gen. Pace is a dumb "donkey"

I also think that the "don't tell don't ask" policy sucks, soldiers should not have to hide their sexuality, but given the number of ignorant people in this country, it is a very functional policy.

And in regards to the discharges due to the policy, I know of many straight soldiers who are against the war in Iraq and have claimed to be g.a.y. in order to leave the military. I question of those 10,000 how many of them are really g.a.y. or just using it as a loop-hole.

[davewinps-2009]

A user comment saying that "nowadays a born-again Christian is considered weak minded ..". No, not just nowadays. That's generally been the case.

[mtgqman]

I've been in the military and I want everyone to hear this. No U.S. soldier who is overseas fighting in a war under severe threat of spontaneous attacks should have to deal with the added discomfort of working being forced to work, eat, share space, and shower, with a ****. It puts unnecessary stress on strait guys. We dont fear homos, we find what they do disgusting. Thats the bottom line.