U.S. And Iranian Envoys Talk In Iraq

At Summit, U.S. Calls On Iraq's Neighbors To Help End Violence

(AP)  U.S. and Iranian envoys spoke directly with each other Saturday about Iraq's security, trading harsh words and blaming each other for this country's crisis at a one-day international conference that could ease their 27-year diplomatic freeze.

Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki opened the conference with an appeal for all participants to help ease his country's plight and prevent the violent conflict here from spilling over into the entire Middle East.

But the conference underscored the wide gulf between American and Iranian views over the nature of the crisis and the ways to end it.

U.S. envoy David Satterfield pointed to his briefcase which he said contained documents proving Iran was arming Shiite Muslim militias in Iraq.

"Your accusations are merely a cover for your failures in Iraq," Iran's chief envoy Abbas Araghchi shot back, according to an official familiar to the discussions who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to release the information.

The U.S. ambassador to Iraq, Zalmay Khalilzad, only said that American delegates exchanged views with the Iranians "directly and in the presence of others" during talks, which he described as "constructive and businesslike."

But Labid Abbawi, a senior Iraqi Foreign Ministry official who attended the meeting, confirmed that an argument broke out between the Iranian and American envoys. He would not elaborate.

Before the talks, U.S. officials said the Baghdad conference would allow all sides to spell out their positions frankly and pave the way for more substantive discussions on resolving the Iraq crisis.

Al-Maliki, a Shiite, appealed for international help to sever networks aiding extremists and warned that Iraq's growing sectarian bloodshed could spill across the Middle East.

Khalilzad also urged nations bordering Iraq — which include Syria and Iran — to increase their assistance to al-Maliki's government, saying "the future of Iraq and the Middle East is the defining issue of our time."

"(Iraq) needs support in this battle that not only threatens Iraq but will spill over to all countries in the region," al-Maliki said.

Al-Maliki urged for help in stopping financial support, weapon pipelines and "religious cover" for the relentless attacks of car bombings, killings and other attacks that have pitted Iraq's Sunnis against majority Shiites.

Underscoring the security crisis, at least two mortar shells exploded near the Foreign Ministry where the talks were held but caused no casualties. A suicide car bomber also killed 20 people in the Shiite militia stronghold of Sadr City.

The participants at the talks included all of Iraq's neighbors — Iran, Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Kuwait — as well as the U.S., Russia, France, Britain, China, Bahrain, Egypt, the U.N., the Organization of the Islamic Conference and the Arab League.

At a news conference after the meeting, Araghchi restated Tehran's demands for a clear timetable for the withdrawal of U.S.-led forces, which he insisted had made Iraq a magnet for extremists from across the Muslim world.

"For the sake of peace and stability in Iraq ... we need a timetable for the withdrawal of foreign forces," said Araghchi, Iran's deputy foreign minister for legal and international affairs.

"Violence in Iraq is good for no country in the region," he said. "Security of Iraq is our security and stability in Iraq is a necessity for peace and security in the region."

Araghchi said he had no face-to-face, private talks with Khalilzad and that the discussions were "within the framework of the meeting." He spoke of "very good interaction by all the delegations."

Khalilzad, too, called the meeting a "first step."

"The discussions were limited and focused on Iraq and I don't want to speculate after that," said the Afghan-born Khalilzad, who greeted Araghchi in the Persian language.

Nevertheless, the discussions illustrated the deep differences between Tehran and Washington, although each insists that full-scale civil war is in neither country's interest.

"Regarding security, we have channels that we can put to use," Araghchi told The Associated Press. "We are ready for any help we can give to Iraq."

Reza Amiri, a senior official at the Iranian Foreign Ministry, dismissed American claims that Tehran was destabilizing Iraq by arming Shiite militias. The U.S. military has insisted that Iranian weapons, including a new generation of powerful roadside bombs, have killed more than 170 U.S. and coalition troops here since mid-2004.

"They're lying because it is just not true," Amiri told the AP. "Iraq's borders with Iran are the most secure of Iraqi borders. The Iraqi government has not even once said Iran is interfering in its affairs."

But Amiri said Saturday's conference was "very positive" because "everyone promised to cooperate with each other and to control the borders."

The delegates proposed an "expanded" follow-up meeting, which could include the G-8 nations and others, in Istanbul, Turkey, next month. Iraqi officials, however, say they will urge that the next meeting take place again in Baghdad.

For Iran, opening more direct contacts with Washington could help promote their shared interests in preventing full-scale war between Sunnis and Shiites. Iran has influence among Shiite political parties with ties to militias.

"Security of Iraq is our security and stability in Iraq is a necessity for peace and security in the region," Araghci said at the news conference.

The Baghdad talks come as the U.S. administration has toughened its rhetoric on Iran and flexed its muscles at the U.N. over Tehran's disputed nuclear program. The tough talk has been accompanied by the arrival of two U.S. carrier battle groups near the Iranian shores in the Persian Gulf.

Iranians increasingly fear that a U.S. attack is imminent despite American insistence to the contrary.

The U.S. and Iran severed diplomatic ties after Iranian militants seized the U.S. Embassy in Tehran following the 1979 Islamic revolution. In the late 1990s, U.S. and Iranian envoys were part of an eight-nation group studying Afghanistan's troubles under the Taliban, and both nations took part in meetings to establish an interim Afghan government after the Taliban's fall in 2001.

In 2000, a four-member U.S. congressional delegation met with Iran's parliament speaker, Mehdi Karroubi, and others for informal talks during a worldwide gathering of lawmakers in New York.

Iranian analyst Saeid Leylaz said the Baghdad conference would be a non-starter if it's not followed by a one-on-one dialogue between Washington and Tehran.

"How can you expect us to talk to them about Iraq's security without Iran's security being part of the talks?" said Leylaz.

He said only a "constructive and strategic dialogue between Tehran and Washington" would resolve the Iraq problem.

"Tehran could help temporarily in Iraq," said Leylaz, "but for an everlasting solution, talks should comprise of security guarantees for the whole region," said Leylaz.

"The Americans must understand the question of security is a matter of life and death for Iran," he said. And no where is that security as vital for Iran as on its borders with Iraq.

[lars008-2009]

Appeal for Redress
Sign this Appeal.
This site is an Appeal For Redress in support of our mission in Iraq.
An Appeal For Redress is an authorized means for active duty military to submit a grievance to Congress. It can be signed by Active Duty, Reserve, or National Guard military personnel.
It is authorized by DoD Directive 1325.6 and DoD Directive 7050.6.
The wording of the Appeal for Redress is:
As an American currently serving my nation in uniform, I respectfully urge my political leaders in Congress to fully support our mission in Iraq and halt any calls for retreat. I also respectfully urge my political leaders to actively oppose media efforts which embolden my enemy while demoralizing American support at home. The War in Iraq is a necessary and just effort to bring freedom to the Middle East and protect America from further attack.
If you are active duty, reservist or national guard, please Sign this Appeal.
Most service members fully support the war in Iraq and feel calls to retreat by Congress and attacks by our media on our conduct and mission act to motivate our enemy while demoralizing our support at home, directly increasing the threat we face and resulting in greater American casualties. This Appeal for Redress provides a way in which individual service members can appeal to Congress to fully support us and actively oppose media attacks on our mission and our morale.
This Appeal will be delivered to members of Congress.
http://www.appealforcourage.org/

[zootallures2]

And Envoy??? What is needed is Bush, Olmert, Ahmadinejad, and al-Assad to be treated like the kindergarteners they are. Have their behinds whapped until they tell their people to stop killing and spreading hatred. It's that immature and rediculous. Along with massive jerks like Pearle, Wolfowitz, David Rockefeller and Henry Kissenger. When Mister Rodgers said you were special, he was talking to other views too..lol!

[firststate]

"Iran can not stop the bloodshed in Iraq because it cannot solve the conflict between Sunni and Shiite. ...The US struggles to implement a 'middle ground' (democracy) in which both Sunni and Shiite can co-exist. The belief that Iran could 'wave a magic wand' and the violence would stop are kidding themselves."
Posted by mbievtea

The United States cannot stop the bloodshed in Iraq for the same reason, the conflict between Sunni & Shia. Equally as delusional are those who think that the US has its own magic wand that will stop the violence, since the US allowed it to begin. US foreign policy ignores meddling by so-called friend nations on behalf of the Sunni and vilifies the meddling on behalf of the Shia by the so-called enemy nation. Our irrational foreign policy results from our irrational administration.

[mbievtea]

heetseeker you are incorrect to think that Iran is part of the solution of the Iraqi sectarin violence and problems that country struggles with. That is the perception Iran wants to convey in order to perpetuate their self-importance in the M/E. That is the very reason Iran shows arrogance to the concerns of the United Nations regarding their nuclear ambitions. They want to implement the caliphate of Islam with Iran as the center. Iran can not stop the bloodshed in Iraq because it cannot solve the conflict between Sunni and Shiite. The struggle in Iraq is a struggle of what influence will dominate the "dream of the caliphate". The US struggles to implement a "middle ground" (democracy) in which both Sunni and Shiite can co-exist. The belief that Iran could "wave a magic wand" and the violence would stop are kidding themselves.

[lars008-2009]

Patrick Henry
It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace--but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death! March 23, 1775

The following text is a fatwa, or declaration of war, by Osama bin Laden first published in Al Quds Al Arabi, a London-based newspaper, in August, 1996. The fatwa is entitled "Declaration of War against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places."
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/international/fatwa_1996.html

Text of Fatwah Urging Jihad Against Americans
http://www.ict.org.il/articles/fatwah.htm
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/980223-fatwa.htm

Osama bin Laden's Declaration of War
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden%27s_Declaration_of_War

[lars008-2009]

fascist nazi islam is the enemy of the entire human race......

[lars008-2009]

Posted by karlimhof at 04:43 AM : Mar 11, 2007

fascist nazi islam is blasphemy haji......

you worship the darkside....... come into the light haji.....

[heetseeker]

"Wake Up And Smell of Coffee"

Whether it likes it or not (and it does not) the administration can achieve nothing in Iraq without the explicit or implicit consent of Iran. Painful isn't it? In America, we believe that the nation to whom we would need to turn to for help has not yet been created - but not so.

Iran is as influential in Iraq as we are (if not more so). Iran can be helpful or unhelpful. It knows where to apply pressure and knows that war fatigue back home means that there is limited appetite for a "third war on terror." Consider this, we are not talking to Iran because we want to. We are talking to them because we have to.

Much as the administration may curse at Iran and see it as part of the problem, it knows that it is also part of the solution. The administration may negotiate through gritted teeth - but it will still have to negotiate. In truth, what pains the administration is not that it has to negotiate with its enemy, rather it is that it must do so on its enemies terms.

This is because, we do not call the shots in Iraq anymore. Alongside the Iraqi government, the Iranians, the militias and the insurgents we are just another faction stuggling for influence in a fragmented political environment.

In summation, Ahmadinejad must be licking his chops. He cannot lose. Iraq is his prize. The only thing left to negotiate is the terms upon which we are prepared to hand it over to him.

[tbweb]

The U.S. and Iran are talking and the U.S. side reports the talks were cordial. This is a very good sign! It's interesting how fast things change! I remember when Iran was a strong U.S. ally, the U.S. was about to deliver 2 new Detroyers Iran had ordered and suddenly everything changed! I never imagined Iran being an arch enemy. The world changes fast and turns on a dime! Yes I know U.S./Iranian history, I don't need a rehash but it just goes to show how fast things change. The point is the U.S. and Iran were close once, it should never have reached a point where the 2 couldn't at least talk! I hope things work out between the U.S. and Iran! Handle with great care!!

[karlimhof]

lars

that's blasphemy and burble coming from you - the most irreverent of creatures -

and on a sunday to boot !

[lars008-2009]

Patton: Oh mighty and most merciful father. We humbly beseech thee of thy great goodness to restrain this immoderate weather with which we have had to contend. Grant us fair weather for battle. Graciously harken to us as solders who call upon thee that armed with thy power we may advance from victory to victory, and crush the oppression and wickedness of our enemies and establish thy justice among men and nations. AMEN.

[karlimhof]

WHO IS OUR "CHIEF US DELEGATE" SATTERFIELD ?????
(WIKIPEDIA)
David Michael Satterfield (born December 18, 1954) is an American diplomat who served extensively in the Middle East, including the Persian Gulf, Lebanon, and Iraq. He now serves as a Senior Advisor on Iraq for Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.

His name came up in the AIPAC/Larry Franklin Pentagon mole case. The indictment, however, did not accuse Satterfield of any wrongdoing, and he was never indicted.

In the indictment: U.S. v. Lawrence Anthony Franklin, Steven J. Rosen, Keith Weissman, USGO-2 is mentioned, and in a New York Times article: David Satterfield, deputy chief of the United States Mission in Baghdad, is identified as USGO-2. In early 2002, Satterfield discussed secret national security matters in two meetings with Steven J. Rosen. The meetings, on January 18, 2002, and March 12, 2002, were confirmed by classified documents. The indictment, however, did not accuse Satterfield of any wrongdoing.


Satterfield "discussed" secret national security matters with AIPAC ????

This guy is tainted and now doing what for us to end this war? Starting another one with Iran?

[karlimhof]

All real Americans love the sting of battle. When you were kids, you all admired the champion marble shooter -

lars


yeah, lars, that's about your best level - marble shooter - and i'd bet you can't even shoot them straight - let alone a M-16

[firststate]

"U.S. envoy David Satterfield pointed to his briefcase which he said contained documents proving Iran was arming Shiite Muslim militias in Iraq."

He didn't mention that these arms are responsible for fewer than 5% of our soldiers killed in Iraq by these Shiite militias.

He also failed to mention that more than 95% of our soldiers killed in Iraq are killed by the Sunnis with weapons, explosives and financial backing of our "Friends???" the Saudis and the Jordanians, etc. Maybe he didn't mention that because he couldn't carry all the evidence support those conclusions in an old-fashioned steamer trunk, certainly not in a briefcase. Maybe the reason they don't mention this evidence is that they can't lug it around.

I would appreciate it if someone could explain why the people who supply the means to kill in excess of 95% of the U.S. military killed in Iraq are considered our friends.

The second thing I'd like an explanation for is why we constantly harp on the weapons Iran furnishes the Shiites and consider Iran our enemy when the forces they supply kill fewer than 5% of our KIA.

It just seems that if Country:
X kills about 3,000 US soldiers (95%) These are Friends? GOOD GUYS?
Y kills about 200 US soldiers (5%) These are Enemies? BAD GUYS?

[lars008-2009]

Doctrina Jacobi
Prophets don't come with sword and chariot.
http://www.livius.org/men-mh/messiah/messiah_med01.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctrina_Iacobi

Antichrist
In the Book of Daniel the evil one is a military leader modeled on Antiochus IV Epiphanes, who persecuted the Jews.
http://www.answers.com/topic/antichrist
Daniel
Daniel recorded his visions (which became prophecies) for future as well as present use; including prophecies about the exact date of the coming of the Jewish Messiah into Jerusalem,
http://www.answers.com/topic/daniel-

http://www.fallofislam.com/?gclid=CInG1aqk64oCFRkEIwodSF4mmg
http://www.fallofislam.com/Bible_Prophecy.html

didn't the bible warn of muhammad and other false prophets?
Matthew 7:15
Matthew 24:11
Matthew 24:24
Mark 13:22
Luke 6:26
2 Peter 2:1
1 John 4:1
http://bibleresources.bible.com/keywordsearchresults.php?keyword=false+prophets&multiplemethod=phrase&version1=9&numpageresults=25&sortorder=bookorder

[lars008-2009]

Saracen
John of Damascus, himself a resident of the Caliphate's capital city, described the Saracens in the early 8th century :

There is also the people-deceiving cult (threskeia) of the Ishmaelites, the forerunner of the Antichrist, which prevails until now. It derives from Ishmael, who was born to Abraham from Hagar, wherefore they are called Hagarenes and Ishmaelites. And they call them Saracens, inasmuch as they were [sent away] empty-handed by Sarah (ek tes Sarras kenous); for it was said to the angel by Hagar: "Sarah has sent me away empty-handed" (cf. Genesis xxi. 10, 14).
These, then, were idolaters and worshippers of the morning star and Aphrodite whom in fact they called Akbar (Chabar) in their own language, which means "great". So until the times of Heraclius they were plain idolaters. From that time till now a true prophet appeared among them, surnamed Muhammad (Mamed), who, having happened upon the Old and the New Testament and apparently having conversed, in like manner, with an Arian monk, put together his own heresy. And after ingratiating himself with the people by a pretence of piety, he spread rumours of a scripture (graphe) brought down to him from heaven. So, having drafted some ludicrous doctrines in his book, he handed over to them this form of worship (to sebas).
In this extract, John might actually have been referring to Allat, a pre-Islamic goddess equated with Aphrodite.
http://www.answers.com/topic/saracen

[lars008-2009]

It is convenient for liberals to forget that the "Grand Mufti of Jerusalem" went to Germany as a guest of Hitler during WWII...and begged Hitler to find the "final solution" to the jewish problem. This same Grand mufti used his influence to raise Two Muslim SS Divisions in Yugoslavia (Kosovo) and Albaina. These divisions were responsible for the murder of almost 1 Million jews, Serbs and Gypsies.

This same Grand Mufti was the maternal uncle of Yassir Arafat! The Mufti's war continues today worldwide.
http://news.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?action=m&board=37138459&tid=apiraq&sid=37138459&mid=1148296

[lars008-2009]

Patton: Now there's another thing I want you to remember. I don't want to get any messages saying that we are holding our position. We're not holding anything. Let the Hun do that. We are advancing constantly and we're not interested in holding onto anything except the enemy. We're going to hold onto him by the nose and we're going to kick him in the arse. We're going to kick the hell out of him all the time and we're going to go through him like c r a p through a goose.

Patton: Men, all this stuff you've heard about America not wanting to fight - wanting to stay out of the war, is a lot of horse dung. Americans traditionally love to fight. All real Americans love the sting of battle. When you were kids, you all admired the champion marble shooter, the fastest runner, big league ball players, the toughest boxers. Americans love a winner and will not tolerate a loser. Americans play to win all the time. I wouldn't give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed. That's why Americans have never lost and never will lose a war, because the very thought of losing is hateful to Americans.

Patton: We're gonna keep fighting. Is that CLEAR? We're gonna attack all night we're gonna attack the next morning. If we're not VICTORIOUS. Let no man come back alive.

Patton: Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man. If anything made by God can be overcome, anything made by man can be overcome.

[j-whitman]

Tweb,,, We could do what Bush shows us,,, Ignore the law -- Bush/Cheney should be locked up,, it's in our National Intrest.

[j-whitman]

Check ya later, they are about to save the world on the Sci-Fi channel.