Juror: Libby Was "The Fall Guy"

Jurors Say They Sympathized With Former White House Aide But Simply Didn't Believe His Story

(CBS/AP)  Jurors in the Libby trial turned their deliberation room into one big visual aid, plastering the walls with dozens of poster-size summaries of witness testimony.

They pushed two long tables together, pored over testimony, reviewed their notes and spent a week just laying out the evidence.

But in the end, it came down to credibility — and they simply did not believe the former White House aide's story. One juror also said Libby was being made a scapegoat.

"There was a tremendous amount of sympathy for Mr. Libby on the jury. It was said a number of times, 'What are we doing with this guy here? Where's Rove? Where are these other guys?'" juror Denis Collins said. "I'm not saying we didn't think Mr. Libby was guilty of the things we found him guilty of. It seemed like he was, as Mr. Wells put it, he was the fall guy."

"There were good managerial type people on this jury who took everything apart and put it in the right place," Collins said after he and his colleagues convicted I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby of perjury, obstruction and lying to the FBI. "After that, it wasn't a matter of opinion. It was just there."

Prosecutors said Libby lied about how he learned the identity of CIA operative Valerie Plame and whom he told. Libby said he told investigators his best recollection of his conversations, but, in the heat of his demanding work schedule, forgot some details or made errors.

Libby's lawyers urged jurors not to convict a man for being forgetful, and jurors took that to heart. They did not immediately vote in the jury room, opting instead to assess the evidence before taking a poll

"It was a very tough question to get through, to try to figure out whether he could have forgotten," juror Jeff Comer said. "Everyone has their moments of forgetfulness."

Libby testified that he learned Plame's identity from Cheney, forgot it, then learned it again a month later from NBC reporter Tim Russert. Prosecutors say that was a convenient story crafted to conceal the fact that Libby discussed official government information.

"There was no smoking gun," Comer said.

Instead, jurors relied on the testimony of several government officials and journalists who said they discussed Plame with Libby. Jurors made a list of nine people who talked to Libby about Plame, and Collins remembered one juror making an observation.

"If I'm told something once, I'm likely to forget it," Collins recalled the juror saying. "If I'm told it many times, I'm less likely to forget it. If I myself tell it to someone else, I'm even less likely to forget it."

Collins, a former Washington Post reporter, said jurors wanted to hear from others involved in the case, including Bush political adviser Karl Rove, who was one of two sources for the original leak. Defense attorneys originally said both Libby and Cheney would be witnesses and Rove was on the potential witness list.

But if the defense had called Cheney to the stand, there was the chance that the vice president might have been ripped apart by the prosecution, according to CBS News correspondent Gloria Borger. And that could have made Libby look even worse.

Collins said he was intrigued when defense lawyer Theodore Wells raised the idea the Libby was being made a scapegoat for Rove. Comer said he can only recall that idea coming up once.

"For me, I really needed to focus on the charge in front of us," Comer said. "There was this background noise, but it played almost no role for me."

During opening statements, Wells told jurors the only way he would lose the case was if they allowed their feelings about the Iraq war and the Bush administration to influence their decision. But Collins said neither topic came up.

"The people who led us were strict taskmasters. Let's stick to the facts," Collins said. "This was not a case about, 'Who can we punish for going into Iraq?' We didn't go there. This wasn't about the war."

[scott4261]

The verdict may not have been about the war, but the deception that led to the trial in the first place certainly was!

[forthepeaple]

do you really think he was the fall guy. what a supid question. yes, do you think he will get a pardon. yes do you think bush,cheney,rumsfeld will make sure he is very very combinsated, yes will he spend any time in prison no.. but this should be anough to impeach both the president and libbys boss

[macusweil]

Outing a career middle east operative during wartime in that region and this is not treason? These neo.cons should rot for their crimes. These guys make the offenses of Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan & Bill Clinton look like child's play.

Support our troops!!-- impeach Bush/Cheney now so that Madam Speaker can assume the high office and clean up this great nation.

[macusweil]

"this should be anough to impeach both the president and libbys boss"

Let's do it now!! Now, before these criminals can pardon each other. Do it now and Nancy becomes the first woman chief executive. Then we can also end the debate of who to elect in 2008!!

[walt1944-2009]

I wonder what will be in the book that Libby writes while he is in prison, or waiting for King George to pardon him while he is out on appeal. Maybe it will be like a "how to" book, like how to be the fall guy, but not have to worry about any jail time. Or how to take the rap for upper management, and come out of it smelling like a rose. And this is the kind of democracy and justice we want to give the rest of the world!

[randalds]

Juror: Libby Was "The Fall Guy"


Doesn't matter. The members of this administration have known all along that they have the "right' to commit any crimes they want to as Bush will end up pardoning them anyway. It's the same as what will happen when things like skimming money from the war or getting kickbacks for favorable no-bid contracts come to light. Cheney will almost certainly be indicted at some time, but he'd better be hoping it happens wile his puppet Bush is in power so he can be pardoned and not go to prison himself. I doubt that there's an honest non-criminal in the whole upper portion of this administration. they're all crooked from Bush on down.

[one_american]

Here go the liberals banging their "war drum" against the President. How amusing.

It doesn't change the fact that Valerie Plame's own husband, Joe Wilson, along with *** Armitage outed Plame's identity to the press.

And that's really what this whole thing is about, isn't it?

But liberals have never let the facts get in the way of a spiffy little "war protest".

Put on your tin foil hats and dream on, liberals.

[one_american]

Here go the liberals banging their "war drum" against the President. How amusing.

It doesn't change the fact that Valerie Plame's own husband, Joe Wilson, along with Richard Armitage outed Plame's identity to the press.

And that's really what this whole thing is about, isn't it?

But liberals have never let the facts get in the way of a spiffy little "war protest".

Put on your tin foil hats and dream on, liberals.

[scott4261]

I will not shed one tear for Scooter and I hope his former boss is next. After all, they LIED us into a war with their faulty intelligence. Good riddance!

[scott4261]

Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert are going to have such fun with this tonight!

[ioweign]

The GOP = The (G)ood (O)le (P)ardon

[randalds]

It doesn't change the fact that Valerie Plame's own husband, Joe Wilson, along with Richard Armitage outed Plame's identity to the press.

And that's really what this whole thing is about, isn't it?

Posted by One_American at 06:47 PM : Mar 06, 2007

No it's not. He was not accused of outing Plame, he was accused of (and convicted of) lying to investigator and to a Grand Jury. Both of which are and should be crimes. besides Bushy is going to pardon him anyway (I mean his popularity is in the pisser now, so what's he have to lose?) so don't get your neocon shorts in a knot.

[scott4261]

Seven-pesos,

Your tirades do nothing to further political discourse. In fact, your poisoning the well. I am an unapologetic, unrepentant liberal from the South and, I assure you, there are many more of us. Don't discount us. And remember that you need our help to take out the neo-cons. Cool it.

[skyk-2009]

There was a tremendous amount of sympathy for Mr. Libby on the jury. It was said a number of times, 'What are we doing with this guy here? Where's Rove? Where are these other guys?'"

Are there any Fascist out there, supporters of Bush and Cheney, who can answer this question? When do we see REAL justice done?

[skyk-2009]

I think one american needs a sit down conversation face to face with some of the other agents at the CIA.
Maybe they can straighten hin out about patriotism, treason, putting politics before country and who the good guys are.
It always attack the victim with right wingers.
It wasnt just Plame. the whole country is a victim of this slimeball adminsoitration.
Posted by ainttaken at 07:30 PM : Mar 06, 2007


Yes it does seem that some just do not care about the Country, our security or anything but their Party! It is still called FASCISM all around the world.... conduct such as you point out.

[ramos937]

To Posted by One_American - You are so wrong. Libby was never tried for outing Mrs. Wilson. He was convicted of obstructing justice and lying to the investigators plus perjury. As always, the coverup obscures the actual deed. Had he retained counsel early on and followed his counsel's advice from the start, he never would have participated in the coverup and would still be employed somewhere.

My take is that somewhere between Monday and June, the representatives of both sides (Libby & Fitzgerald) will meet to explore a plea agreement even at this late date. If they do, Libby will sing like a canary and Fitzgerald will recommend lienancy to the Judge. In that even, Cheney/Rove/Et Al will be indicted. Aside from his wife's salary, Libby has no income but has huge legal bills. He does not want to go to jail for many years plus a large multi million fine.

Forget the pardon. Bush will never guarantee to Libby that he would get one in 2008 or before he leaves office. Libby cannot depend on that.

[lieber1881]

This verdict...what a crock of sh*t.

Even if it were true - and it ISN'T, who gives a bleep about a f*ckin blond bimbo - and you Dems want a field day with Coulter - first off, you wish you could, secondly she has more brains than this political hiree will ever find. Secondly, her hubby was and is one of the most arrogant anal-retentive morons in a foreign service filled with them. On one hand he showed guts back in '91 when he stood up to his friend Saddam - but was still regarded by the foreign diplomatic corps in Baghdad as a piece of work. Now, this rich, obnoxious Liberal is just a pathetic publicity hound.

As for Fitzgerald, this is a serial bumbler who dropped the ball on the interrogating and trial of one Ali Mohammed, a former U.S. Army officer - sound familiar Ex-Law and Bluestarbigot? who was secretly an operative for Egyptian Al Qaeda. If Fitzgerald had properly done his job, and if the Clitons had guts there might not have been a 9/11 - ask Peter Lance.

Personally it should be Valerie Plame, bigmouth Joe, and Fitzgerald in the docket - not a good man and patriot like Libby. Hope this President has the guts to pardon him and say the hell with Fitzgerald.

[skyk-2009]

But liberals have never let the facts get in the way of a spiffy little "war protest".

Put on your tin foil hats and dream on, liberals.
Posted by One_American at 06:43 PM : Mar 06, 2007

It NEVER stops amazing me. A clown like this slime ball LIVES in a nation created by LIBERALS, no I believe Conservatives called them RADICAL LIBERALS. He lives with rights drawn up in a Constitution Written by LIBERALS. That Constitution contains MANY rights added over the years, each and everyone because of LIBERAL's. When you roll down the list of the Greatest Leaders in the nations history ALL of them are LIBERALS. Yet this poor fool HATES Liberals. In other words he hates the nation and everything it stands for. If I were this miserable with the way a country is and was, I'd find some other place to be. OH! That's right, the Third Reich was defeated wasn't it.... BY LIBERALS!! Well Sieg Heil anyway there Sparky!!

[skyk-2009]

Personally it should be Valerie Plame, bigmouth Joe, and Fitzgerald in the docket - not a good man and patriot like Libby. Hope this President has the guts to pardon him and say the hell with Fitzgerald.
Posted by Lieber1881 at 07:45 PM : Mar 06, 2007

Now I know fascist have always, since the very begining, had a problem with our system of Justice. You clowns have always believed the system should work ONLY against those YOU want. But to call a KNOWN and CONVICTED Fellon, CONVICED in a COURT OF LAW by a JURY of his peers... to call that kind of low life a Patriot? Maybe you need to look at a more fascist enviroment... A nation more fitting to your Superior Types. ROFLMAO Sieg Heil ROFLMAO

[ioweign]

To bad Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald wasn't like Special Prosecutor Ken Starr - we would have a few more convictions!

[iceman_1960]

Juror: Libby Was "The Fall Guy"

Are you nuts ? Everybody knows Lee Majors was the Fall Guy.

If Libby is the Fall Guy, Bush will Spring him in time.

[scott4261]

Seven-pesos,

Your tirades do nothing to further political discourse. In fact, you're poisoning the well. I am an unapologetic, unrepentant liberal from the South and, I assure you, there are many more of us. Don't discount us. And remember that you need our help to take out the neo-cons. Cool it.

[iceman_1960]

"Libby was never tried for outing Mrs. Wilson."

True.

He was tried for lying to protect D*ick Cheney.

[scott4261]

....Everybody knows Lee Majors was the Fall Guy...

Posted by Iceman_1960

------

That was funny, man!

[mcvet]

Personally it should be Valerie Plame, bigmouth Joe, and Fitzgerald in the docket - not a good man and patriot like Libby. Hope this President has the guts to pardon him and say the hell with Fitzgerald.
Posted by Lieber1881 at 07:45 PM : Mar 06, 2007
+ report this comment

YOU told us all here that LIBBY would NEVER be conviced. YOU were wrong. Now instead of being an America, instead having HONOR and saying to all on here, I was wrong. YOU act like a small child who has lost a game of marbles. You fascist are and remain the most disgusting creatures on Planet Earth and you sure as HELL do not deserve to live in a Nation as great as this. It's that system you rant and rave against BECAUSE YOUR PARTY has been disgraced that has been the becon of hope for MILLIONS. Yet YOU do not have the basic courage to accept the decision of that System. You are a pittiful little creature who will grow old and bitter because your Party can not nor never HAS been right. I have never understood you clowns who buy into the fascist way... you always end up with your nose bloody and ugly blue and black around the eyes. You also always say you have won. Exactly what and When you can never answer.

[iceman_1960]

Thanks, Scott.

One_American:

Stop being unpatriotic and support America instead of a moronic, drug affected idiot who had his presidency bought and paid for by big business.

[lieber1881]

mcdazz,

what a cute name for a clown.

So, mickeydazz, when are you going to sign up - either for the Marines, or probably much more your stretch - Al Qaeda.

Take some of your fellow fascists with you.
I sure hope Ann Coulter blast your gutless wonders again - that's a class act, unlike Valerie the crybaby and her big Pig.

[skyk-2009]

Instead, jurors relied on the testimony of several government officials and journalists who said they discussed Plame with Libby. Jurors made a list of nine people who talked to Libby about Plame, and Collins remembered one juror making an observation.

Pretty big case to go on circumstantial evidence!

The Jury and AMERICAN's needed to hear from Cheney and Bush. We STILL need to hear from Cheney and Bush. WHY did this Administration that was conducting a war, become so engrossed, as the evidence CLEARLY shows, with an Op Ed Piece in the New York Times? Why would the Vice President of the United States decide to use the POWER of that office to discredit ONE citizen unless there was something there that had to be hidden? We the people need answers here and there are only TWO people who can give us those answers.

[skyk-2009]

You don't like victory, bud - then take your Nazi and Traitor carcass over to Iran or Iraq and sign up with the throatslitting cowards. They are about your speech.

Plame's a two-bit 'ho.
Posted by Lieber1881 at 08:42 PM : Mar 06, 2007

What the HELL are you babbling about? MCVet IS a Combat Veteran you MORON. If you have the brains of a head of Cabbage you would have figured that out. It seems that anyone who does not agree with you and your view of what should be is somehow not worthy. That's called FASCISM STUPID!! Grow up for God's sake!! Geezzzzzzzzzz

[j0hnwi11iams]

All this cooked up intelligence was a delicate souffle that Wilson could have easily punctured. It is disgraceful that the Administration ( everyone Libby is protecting ) had no argument to counter with and saw fit to destroy the intelligence work his wife was doing. It's almost certain the Libby will be pardoned for protecting the criminal in chief. Libby will be hired by Pox News as a consultant, like all the other felons.

It seems there is no fact so obvious that some idiot will not attempt to deny it.

[skyk-2009]

EVERY American must be very concerned tonight... Well every American who care's more about their Country than their party that is. Some are never going to care and they are truly hopeless. We have Thousands of our best and brightest who's lives have been wasted, and yes they have been wasted by an Administration who "Cooked the Intel" to go to war. There's no dispute today that there were NO weapons in Iraq and there was NO connection to those who attacked this nation. What we do not know is how badly we were lied too. We WERE LIED to there is also no doubt about that. When you look at the obvious and continuing distruction to this nation and it's position in the world it becomes so clear how far we have fallen and how long it will take to recover. Someone other than this stink ball MUST answer to the questions that are so important here. Just as that scum sucker, Nixon, what did he know and when did he know it. IF Bush knew before hand that Cheney was cherry picking Intel to justify this war then our Commander in Chief is nothing but a lowly criminal. PERIOD!!

[skyk-2009]

you assume someone is hiding something, what about the possibility someone is/was withholding something...? ever think of that possbility...Wilson managed to omit the Iraqis were actually looking for uranium, Wilson reports only that they hadn't procured any uranium, not yet in any case, which is exactly the reason for the WMD claim - Iraq wanted it, desired it, was actively trying to acquire it...
Posted by badaxmofo at 09:16 PM : Mar 06, 2007


THAT was NOT what Bush and/or Cheney were telling us. They admitted shortly after the Lie in the State of the Union that WILSON was correct and that the statement should NOT have been made. What is at issue is what was revealed in this Trial. Cheney went after Wilson like a rabid dog, the Defense made a big deal of that. Why? IF what you say is true WHY would the Vice President go to such and extent, as the tapes CLEARLY show, to discredit someone. The ONLY answer is he KNEW before the War started... HE knew the whole thing was trumped up. That's the ONLY reason to discredit instead of defend. THE ONLY REASON!!

[skyk-2009]

This Jury that heard all the evidence in this case felt that Libby was a Fall Guy. Now why does someone take the fall for a person like Cheney? Why does someone risk going to jail for a long time and becoming a fellon? There's really a lot we do not know here folks and a lot we really should know. Libby HIMSELF, through his attorney, made the case that he was protecting Cheney and Bush. Obviously if it were revealed BEFORE the election that Bush and Cheney had cooked the intel that cause so many to die, they lose the election. Hell they barely won it as it was and half the people in America still believe the lies Cheney was telling about Iraq and Bin Laden being connected. So we MUST accept that Libby was the Fall Guy, the Jury has convicted him of LYING and HE has told us he was protecting Cheney. PROTECTING HIM FROM WHAT? If Cheney wasn't doing anything wrong, if Cheney was acting as a Vice President should, what's to protect????

[stevex47]

I truly applaud this jury. Finally, one of our systems worked.

This jury wasn't all dem's or repub's. They allowed the facts to register their judgement.

Thank You for your doing your civic duty so professionally !!

[stevex47]

" Wilson reports only that they hadn't procured any uranium, not yet in any case, which is exactly the reason for the WMD claim - Iraq wanted it, desired it, was actively trying to acquire it...
Posted by badaxmofo"

If you believe that, you believe the incorrect story. Sorry. Wilson was the honorable, honest one in this saga. His intelligence is true today. No evidence of anything you mention above.

[stevex47]

That's why it's treason badax. By their own claims, we were at risk. A CIA leak while under threat is certainly treason.

What if Hillary had leaked a CIA agents name during Kosovo or Mogadishu. Badax, I think you would have made a huge issue of that. Please stop being a hypocrit.

[mitywhity]

Politics sucks - I'm bored with all this puke.

[energyecon]

stevex47 you nailed it!

These jurors rendered a great service to us all - NOT in the particular verdicts that they rendered - rather for the seriousness with which they undertook their civic duty.

[ozonmojo]

This guy is surely signing a fat contract for his book.

Lieber1881:

You still don't have a clue do you.

Hint: Dictionary and fascism.

Or do we need to explain to you what a dictionary is?

[mh4cbs1]

So when are the REAL Criminals, CHENEY and BUSH, going to be thrown in PRISON where they belong???

Cheney and Bush LIED us into this horrific, needless WAR ON IRAQ. They deserve LIFE IN PRISON for all the Death and Destruction they have caused.

[candojj1]

Why Libby was the fall guy and why Gore calls politics sleazy and won't run. To understand why this is true you have to read the whole story.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB207/index.htm

Post-Saddam Iraq:
The War Game

"Desert Crossing" 1999 Assumed
400,000 Troops and Still a Mess

"There was consensus that the United States would not intervene without coalition support except under the most dire circumstances such as WMD use or catastrophic humanitarian disaster."
- Desert Crossing After Action Report, 1999.

"When it looked like we were going in, I called back down to CENTCOM and said, 'You need to dust off Desert Crossing.' They said, 'What's that? Never heard of it.'"
- General Anthony Zinni (ret.), 2004.

Washington D.C., November 4, 2006 - In late April 1999, the United States Central Command (CENTCOM), led by Marine General Anthony Zinni (ret.), conducted a series of war games known as Desert Crossing in order to assess potential outcomes of an invasion of Iraq aimed at unseating Saddam Hussein. The documents posted here today covered the initial pre-war game planning phase from April-May 1999 through the detailed after-action reporting of June and July 1999.

The Desert Crossing war games, which amounted to a feasibility study for part of the main war plan for Iraq -- OPLAN 1003-98 -- tested "worst case" and "most likely" scenarios of a post-war, post-Saddam, Iraq.

[frankly6]

badaxmofo


Why did Libby lie and obstruct a FEDERAL CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION into who outed a COVERT CIA OPERATIVE?

[frankly6]

badaxmofo

Why would Libby lie to the FBI and a grand jury that he learned Plame's identity from the press when he learned it from Chaney?


Why would he do that?

[frankly6]

I don't feel sorry for Libby because he didn't have the conscience to tell the truth. He's the fall guy by choice. He's protecting Cheney, Rove and Bush. I'm sure they promised to take good care of him and his family for this one. Look for him to take his place on the staff of the next GOP President or a cush lobbying firm. He'll be rewarded handsomely for taking one for the team.

badaxmofo wrote:

"Wilson withheld intel that supported the cause for war...This is a travesty!"

Why don't you tell us what information it was that he withheld?

Then perhaps you could explain why it was that his wife had to be outed to help defend Bush wanting to go to war against Iraq?

The only travesty is that those who are *really* responsible for the outing will probably get away with it.

Even you should be able to see that.

[samthetvcat]

I guess that's one way of looking at the situation to think it's kind of sad that Libby's become the fall guy for this corrupt administration, but it's not like there's anything preventing him from actually telling the TRUTH about what really happened . . . I'm sure prosecutors will offer him a deal for them to seek a lesser sentence if he agrees to testify against Cheney and Rove - if he turns it down based on some misguided sense of loyalty to these creeps, then that's on him imo. And who knows - maybe Cheney and Rove have offered Libby some sort of deal of their own, like $$$ for silence . . . Libby just doesn't strike me as anybody's victim imo . . .

[samthetvcat]

omg - I just repeated what frankly6 wrote an hour ago in about half as many words . . . I think I read it, processed it and then thought I came up with it myself (lol!).

So true frankly - ita :)

[seven-pesos]

bush lied...

thousands died, maybe millions. but they still love bush in the south.

another sad story of death and destruction that comes out of the bush loving slave state south.

war, hate, division, arrogance, death and destruction...

the south never does good for america.

the south will never change...

rednecks, white trash, reborns, crooked republican snakes, twisted evangelist screws, ignorant, uneducated and hated by the rest of america

nothing good comes of the south!