Jesus Documentary Stirs Heated Debate

Scholars Dismiss Film's Claim That Jesus' Remains Were Found In Jerusalem Tomb

(CBS/AP)  To resolve the question of whether the remains of Jesus and Mary Magdalene may have rested in two limestone boxes discovered in a Jerusalem suburb, the filmmakers of a new documentary took novel approaches — including turning to statisticians.

Some religious scholars and archaeologists, however, have not been convinced by the numbers.

Filmmakers showed the two boxes on Monday while promoting their documentary, "The Lost Tomb of Jesus," produced by Oscar-winning director James Cameron and airing on the Discovery Channel on March 4.

It argues that 10 first-century bone boxes, called ossuaries, discovered in 1980 may have contained the bones of Jesus and his family.

One of the boxes even bears the title, "Judah son of Jesus," hinting that Jesus had a son. The claim that Jesus even had an ossuary contradicts the Christian belief that he was resurrected and ascended to heaven.

A panel of scholars that joined the filmmakers Monday at the New York Public Library addressed that criticism and others.

James Tabor, a professor of religious studies at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte, said that while literal interpreters of the Bible say Jesus' physical body rose from the dead, "one might affirm resurrection in a more spiritual way in which the husk of the body is left behind."

But Albert Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, said Christianity "has always understood the physical resurrection of Christ to be at the very center of the faith."

Cameron, who won an Academy Award for directing "Titanic," said he was excited to be associated with the Jesus film, which was directed by Toronto filmmaker Simcha Jacobovici.

"We don't have any physical record of Jesus' existence," he said. "So what this film ... shows is for the first time tangible, physical, archaeological and in some cases forensic evidence."

He said that to a layman's eye "it seemed pretty darn compelling."

Jacobovici denied that his film is an attack on one of the basic tenets of Christianity, that Jesus rose from the dead.

"I'm not a theologian. I'm not attacking anybody," Jacobovici told CBS' The Early Show. "I'm a reporter. I'm reporting a set of facts. … It's a fact the tomb was found. It's a fact that Jesus son of Joseph was buried in this tomb. There's two Marys, there's a Judah son of Jesus. These are facts. So what we're doing is reporting saying, hey world, pay attention, don't discuss theology. First, let's discuss the facts and then let's see the implications on theology."

Jacobovici and archaeologist Charles Pellegrino also are the authors of "The Jesus Family Tomb," newly published by HarperSan Francisco. Jacobovici said that a name on one of the ossuaries, Mariamene, is a major support to the argument that the tomb is that of Jesus and his family. In early Christian texts, Mariamene is a name of Mary Magdalene, he said.

Most Christians believe Jesus' body spent three days at the site of the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem's Old City. The burial site identified in the documentary is in a southern Jerusalem neighborhood nowhere near the church.

[dmorg4]

Well its just not possible because Jesus took his body with him when he rose from the dead.

[obiquital]

Maybe it was just his soul

[randalds]

Heated debate means the usual number of "born again" type fundamentalists will come out of the woodwork. The usual number of sane people will counter what they say with logic and intelligence. And the fundamentalists will wear their little holy fingers out looking up and typing scripture to "prove" that they are right. In the end the fundamentalists will still be just as bigoted and intolerant and the smart people will still be just as smart and just as right. Nothing will be accomplished. Still it'll probably be entertaining to watch.

[dmorg4]

No it was his body i know for a fact he has risen
because he lives in me and i have seen the things he has done proving that he is alive and
not dead.

[justinclssn]

If Jesus didn't raise from the dead then how can we speak in tongues. You can't change our minds about what we know happened to Jesus. I know that Jesus Christ rose from the dead and that he sits at the right hand of God in heaven because I've received the babtism of the holy spirit and I've felt the presence of God in my church at the christian concerts that I go to. And how can we christians speak in tongues if Jesus didn't do what he said that he would. The only way that we would be able to speak in tongues is if Christ died, rose and was resurrected into heaven and sit by the Father in Heaven and be able to send the Holy Spirit down to help us speak to the Father. And if you try to question my faith than question it because nothing that you say can change my beleifs as a pentacostal worship leader because I've felt the Holy Ghost and that would only be possible if Jesus was by the Father in Heaven right now. Everything that you say is wrong and the end is near because Christ did say that we would have our faith questioned and we would be persecuted for our beleifs in He Who Reigns On High. As a firm beleiver in God and Jesus Christ I rebuke everything that this documentry stands for cause the devil has attacked us enough and Satan I rebuke you because you may think that you've won but you're gonna lose because we will not fall to your lies!

[rharrin1]

Have you got your bananas Rick?

[justinclssn]

Cameron you will face your judgement one day at those gates and you will be amazed when everything that you used to prove Christianity wrong will be disproved when you see the face of our Christ in heaven. Your judgement is coming. You'll see.

[dmorg4]

Poor blind people how can you look at the universe around you and not see God.
when i was young i looked to try to see God
but now thats all i see is God every where i look
there has been more miracles in our days then took place in the new testiment but people still turn there heads and say there is no God just like the bible says
To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. "

[rafterman1]

Interesting concept but I don';t see how it can be proved one way or the other.

[justinclssn]

I think that it is obsurd that you would say that Jesus and Mary Magdelene were husband and wife. Now you have to think Mary Magdelene had no family so they, even if this is the grave of Jesus' family and I don't think it is, could have buried her with the the family out of respect. But in my right mind I truly don't think that this is the tomb of jesus. But as far as I'm concerned this so called tomb of Jesus is just a way for the devil to try and attack christianity. And to you dmorg4 amen and may God flourish in your life even more than he has.

[justinclssn]

Interesting concept but I don';t see how it can be proved one way or the other.

Posted by Rafterman1 at 02:35 PM : Feb 27, 2007


To us you don't have to prove anything because your faith is all the proof that you need. How do you know that your gonna be alive tomorrow, you don't only your hope and faith can tell you if you if you will live tomorrow. God controls the universe and who lives, who dies and who goes to heaven or hell. faith is all that we have and God's Holy Word.

[getcentered]

I believe in God, but I would NEVER assume I know what it is.

What I do know is that the bible is fiction, and is a wonderful collection of stories and folklore. The figures and icon one might find in the bible are mythical. Same as in the Koran or any other book one might read that a religion is founded on. There are many good fiction books that have many good lessons to teach. Why don't people try reading those ones?

[dmorg4]

for you people who dont believe just watch this video from google this man was dying for cancer and God took the tumor out of his chest and he will tell you about it he was in a meeting of
William Branham and God called this man out and told him what was wrong with him without knowing him before and told him who he was just watch the video and see for your self


http://video.google.com/url?docid=119336919892929412&esrc=sr10&ev=v&q=william+branham&vidurl=http://video.google.com/videoplay%3Fdocid%3D119336919892929412%26q%3Dwilliam%2Bbranham%26hl%3Den&usg=AL29H23rPgAUvL9j8falQZjKePbtil7q0g

[justinclssn]

Gotta go talk to you tomorrow.
God Bless

[getcentered]

oooooh! Magic!

I want to see!

I love dragons, and magic!

"But by stressing such Western religious staples as monotheism, it obviously excludes religions that affirm no God (Buddhism) and those that affirm many (Hinduism)."

That is until there is a political use for proclaiming support for Buddhists and Hindi.

Until then the powers that be will continue to draw lines between the Monotheists and the rest, but only because it is easy to have the public believe that a NON-monotheist God is a MYTH.

Our society has grown ignorant to the fact that the Christian God is MYTH as well.

The concept of GOD today is merely a politically exploitable inveterate of society which distracts us from using our MOST POWERFUL philosophical minds.

Kill your religion; get back to being a philosopher.
There is NO REASON to be WILLFULLY IGNORANT.
Just like TIME, God is MAN MADE.

Philosophical independence is true liberty.

Here's my prediction:
2011 The world finally realizes the damage beset upon the world by those who would exploit the people for political and economic gains in the name of a MAN MADE God.

[dmorg4]

Just wait and see when you are laying on your death bed and see who you call for im sure it wont be for some athiest to tell you thats there is no God

[getcentered]

dmorg4:

"Just wait and see when you are laying on your death bed and see who you call for im sure it wont be for some athiest to tell you thats there is no God"

I agree, I don't want an atheist telling me there is no GOD either, but I also don't want some religious freak telling me what GOD to pray to.

I'd just rather not embrace ignorance, even on my deathbed.

My hope for the afterlife requires NO DEFINITION.

[rsoxfan1123]

25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator%u2014who is forever praised. Amen

singinrick-this refers to the idolatry of the Greeks and their "deities". You realize you have to read the bible in context?

[rsoxfan1123]

singinrick-when your scholarship is shabby it throws everything you say into question.

[rsoxfan1123]

read the Bible in full context. Your opinion is your opinion.
God Bless you.
Posted by singinrick

the lines you quote have nothing to do with evolution. they were writen to a particular group of people. The devil quotes scripture of of context-it proves nothing. You have to know what you're talking about.

[randalds]

Cameron belongs to the Scienctology group,so what you expect him to say..As for RANDLDUMSHI$ He will have to deal with right or wrong one day and oboy is he going to have shock..Warm aint it
Posted by FARTKNOCKER2 at 02:21 PM : Feb 27, 2007

I'm shaking in my atheist boots fartman. It's hard to threaten someone with something he knows isn't true. Even if hell existed, I'd rather go there then spend eternity with a bunch of self importance sanctimonious self-righteous as*sholes as the born again "Christians" of today.

[getcentered]

Singinrick:

"It seems to me that we live in a godless/got-hating society nowadays.
Christians are persecuted and ridiculed more nowadays than any other time in history.(Biblical prophesy by the way)"

Well I disagree with your assumptions about the US being godless or god hating. I think you're just repeating something some talk show host said.

Most of my friends are Christians and Jewish and we discuss the topic of religion all the time. They don't feel persecuted but they would say that the religious of America have been exploited for political reasons, especially in the South.

[rsoxfan1123]

singinrick- then gravity is a "doctrine". you can't take a Biblical quote and apply it wherever you like. you have to understand it.

[marc411]

There are many religions in the world. For the sake of argument, let's say there are 1000. So every person in the world who adheres to a religion believes that theirs is the one true religion and has no problem rejecting the other 999 as flawed. I only reject one more.

[dmorg4]

let me ask you this get centered you said god is man made and if he was man made what difference would it make if it was an athiest or not do i detect some uncertanty

[leahart7]

I really don't know how Jesus' remains could be found in a tomb as the Bible says he ascended into heaven sometime after his resurrection from the dead subsequent to his crucifixion on the order of Pontius Pilate. Mary, his mother, also was given the privilege of ascending into heaven, so her remains should or could not be able to be found. If the Bible literally means Jesus and Mary literally ascended into heaven--that is another matter--maybe they could have spirtually ascended into heaven.

[randalds]

-Evolution is a "doctrine" it is a belief system that is false. It is entirely a "wordly view on why we're here instead of the Truth in the story of Creation. It is Totally against God's creation in the Bible.

Hence it false into the category of false teachings.

Posted by singinrick at 03:53 PM : Feb 27, 2007

Evolution is not a doctrine slick rick and you know it, or our you really that stupid? Evolution is scientific fact, provable and has been proven by many different sources all with no axe to grind and no reason to "conspire" together against any creator. Their evidence is relatively easily reproducible by any scientists anywhere in the world. Creationism is garbage. It has no basis in fact and is only accepted as truth by those who follow a book that says it's the truth because it says it's the truth and for no other reason.

[rsoxfan1123]

This article is false, it's another lie from the devil, and it's another blatant attack on Christianity, for which our society has become so accustomed to nowadays.

It's as simple as that.
Posted by singinrick

It could very well be.

[getcentered]

singinrick:

Doctrine?

Could not everything that could be taught called a doctrine?

Evolution is scientific explanations of nature, not assumed or "believed". Science does not require consensus; it is simply logic.

Science and religion do not compare, but those who would exploit the religious would have you think they do.

[us_infidel]

"they would say that the religious of America have been exploited for political reasons, especially in the South."

Posted by getcentered at 03:55 PM : Feb 27, 2007

They must mean the south of Europe.....as in the middle east. If there was ever a cult that has been exploited for fanatical reasones, it's islam.
Most Christians just live by morals and ethics....like the ones the country was founded on.

So it's not hard to see them align with a political party that most represents their philosophical and religious belief systems.

[jabberwock11]

This story is great on so many levels. First off if it is proven true, it directly contradicts the Bible. And then we have a Jewish guy making a film about how Jesus may not be so holy after all. That would imply that he wasn%u2019t the messiah and that Judaism is the true religion. I wonder how the Muslims feel. After all they always claimed the Jesus was simply a prophet like Mohammad.

[rsoxfan1123]

singinrick-the Bible says not to be contentious between belivers over points of doctrine. it is a sin. The amount of water it takes shouldn't divide believers. and in psalms it says we are sinful from birth. It is a ritual that places the baby under the parents' covenant. Anyone that thinks it displeases God is wrong. it really shouldn't divide people.

[getcentered]

dmorg4:

Please refrase your question. It's hard to understand what you're asking.

You speak of uncertainty.

[randalds]

You're lutheran right? Find me in the Bible where it says to sprinkle babies for baptism.

I'm curious.

(oh by the way my wife was raised Lutheran)
Posted by singinrick at 03:59 PM : Feb 27, 2007

Oh by the way by this statement you're saying that all children who were baptized by sprinkling of water instead of immersion were not actually baptized and are going to hell. Right as8shole? You, in YOUR justice have just condemned generations, millions, of Catholics, Lutherans, etc to eternity in he*ll just because that were not baptised up to YOUR standards.

[us_infidel]

You're lutheran right? Find me in the Bible where it says to sprinkle babies for baptism.

I'm curious.

(oh by the way my wife was raised Lutheran)
Posted by singinrick at 03:59 PM : Feb 27, 2007

Jesus commanded his disciples to baptize those whom they had taught (Matt 28: 19). The implication is that those who have been taught the Gospel should willingly submit to
baptism.

2. Though sinless, Jesus walked seventy miles to be baptized by John in the river Jordan in order to fulfill all righteousness (Matthew 3: 13-15). If it was the right thing for him to do, how
much more is it vital for sinners - such as we all are.

:)

[rsoxfan1123]

Oh by the way by this statement you're saying that all children who were baptized by sprinkling of water instead of immersion were not actually baptized and are going to hell. Right as8shole? You, in YOUR justice have just condemned generations, millions, of Catholics, Lutherans, etc to eternity in he*ll just because that were not baptised up to YOUR standards.
Posted by RandalDS

That's basically what he's saying all right.

[susanhelit]

Reading about this - it's a classic case of GIGO - Garbage in, Garbage out. Some partial and inaccurate statistics were requested from mathematicians - based on assumptions that real archeologists say are wrong - and they're being used to make this appear like it's something special.

The scientific facts in this case show this is highly unlikely to be the biblical Jesus - with such common names, even if it's a family grouping, it's meaningless, and since the tomb is in the wrong location, and this type of burial is something done for a completely different class of family than the biblical Jesus's family - it just doesn't fit. Might be an entertaining fiction, but I can't see putting any real meaning to it.

Now, if they run a DNA test, and find that the 'Jesus' found (actually, some archeologists say the name on the tomb is not jesus - hard to read something that old and beat up), has half normal DNA, and half something bizarre - then we might have something interesting.

Evolution - that's got real evidence, we can see it work today, statistics, peer review, tons of time trying to prove and disprove it, and it stands up. This - this is just junk science, a filmmaker creating controversy for the sake of money, using all kinds of logic flaws to make it seem like he has something.

[susanhelit]

You know - I wonder. OK, this is just a stupid little BS creation for money - but let's say, just for the heck of it, that the DNA is analyzed, and comes back as half human, and half nothing we've ever seen before.

I can say for me, I'd have to reevaluate my faith - scientific proof that Jesus really was something different. I wonder what those of you who believe in the Bible think? Is it OK that maybe the story was mistold? Is it that important that Jesus's body vanished, as opposed to his spirit?

[randalds]

I think we need a new book in the bible. A Gospel according to SinginRick. A book that will explain exactly what everyone has to do to go to the same heaven as the great self-appointed prophet. What an ego. What self-centeredness. What self aggrandizing. Rick gets gods words, gods requirements and then passes them on to the world. To be against rick is to be against god.

Jesus Rick instead of Jesus Christ anyone.

[dmorg4]

You know this artical is horrible just like somebody said here already you know if this was an artical challanging islam you would have a mob of angry terrorist realy to burn down cbs or anybody else who gets in the way but its alright to trash Jesus But dont worry saints someday we will inherit the earth after God has burned all the sin and wickedness off of it.
to these people who dont believe dont worry one day death will creep in your room just like it has many times and you will find out whether its true or not but im here to tell you its true i know for a fact that Jesus Christ lives its not a fantasy or just some book of good words there is a God and his name Is The Lord Jesus Christ
and on judgement day i will tell the lord i tried to tell them but they would not listen to me they thought i was just some old idiot
who didnt know what he was talking about
listen folks its a fact not fiction im so sure of it its just as real as my computor or anything else i have.

[susanhelit]

But - this isn't that big a deal - there are always movies made that insult other's religions. Movies that go after Jews, atheists, agnostics, everyone who isn't Christian are routinely made, saying how we're all going to die horrible deaths, and we're completely wrong. What's the biggie about a movie saying Christians might be wrong?

[dmorg4]

What i mean get centered is this in one of your post you said that God is man made ok.
in the next post you said that you did not want an athiest to speak to you ethier so what i meant was that if God is man made what difference would it make since you dont believe in him anyway so i wondered if you were completly sure of what you said about god being man made or not

[randalds]

Posted by dmorg4 at 04:12 PM : Feb 27, 2007

Ummmm...ok...way to make your case. I'm sure the manager of your trailer park is real impressed. Sorry, but you're just not scaring me into abandoning my atheist ways. You really should work on your whole fear factor as it's just not that scary. Perhaps some fire and brimstone?

[getcentered]

US_Infidel:

"Most Christians just live by morals and ethics."

Wouldn't you agree that most PEOPLE live by morals and ethics?



dmorg4:

It is obvious to me now that you are a believer in the Bible.

Is it fear of uncertainty that helped you decide to believe?

[randalds]

"When man first attained the upright position he took a look at the stars...and thought they were something to eat. When he couldn't reach them he decided they were groceries belonging to a bigger being and that's how Jehovah was born."

Gene Kelly in "Inherit The Wind". As good of an explanation as I've ever heard.

[omded]

Good points GetCentered. The use of religion to manipulate and exploit people has been gong on for a long, long time. I think it was Napoleon Bonaparte who stated it best when he wrote in his personal memoirs "Personally, I have no use for religion, but it's very effective for keeping the common man quiet." He arranged to have the Pope himself present to crown him at his coronation to give his reign a sence of divine right or appointment. Indeed it's the co-mingling of religion and governance that often reveals the falicy of a "religious faith". After all, when you convince someone that "it's what God wants", they'll do it without question, and the masses can be reduced to nothing more than mere wind-up dolls. However, when looking from the outside, it becomes obvious the masses are acting out of carrot (heaven) and stick (hell) obedience, rather than actual "true faith".

[us_infidel]

Maybe there's some DNA available from the shroud of Turin? It would be interesting to see the comparison.

Just imagine....wouldn't it be something to put quantifiable human analysis to the spiritual realm.....Did Jesus really rise from the dead? To those of us who believe, no proof is necessary. Still, from a scientific and historical perspective, it would be fantastic to know!

[mnelsonix]

1000 years from now, centuries after the fall of the Great American Empire, an archeologist will be searching for the remains of...oh say...George Washington. He will dig up a tomb somewhere in...oh say...Virginia. "We have uncovered the remains of the first ruler of the ancient American Empire." Oh sure dummy...you probably found the tombstone of a slave. Lots-o-GW%u2019s.

This is pure bullkrapp.

[dmorg4]

No getcentered it was not fear that convinced me to believe God.
God called on my heart and i accepted his invitation for him to come into my heart
and i believe the many witnesses that i have heard thoughout my life that testifeid of the things God did for them i used to be a skeptic
but i have seen for my self proof that Jesus is alive and well and not only for others but what he has done for me he healed my body when nobody could help

[getcentered]

When I say GOD is man made I mean that quite literally.

Man wrote the books describing various Gods.

Time is man made as well, man invented minutes.

My faith is in the existence of something I have never seen or touched, but that I hope supports life after death.

I'm not looking for an explanation from MAN of what life after death might be.