Bar Assn., NRA Battle Over Guns In Cars

Groups Square Off Over Guns In Company Parking Lots

(AP)  Employee parking lots have become an unlikely focus in the fight over gun rights.

The nation's largest lawyers group is taking on the biggest gun rights organization over employers' rights to bar workers from leaving guns in their cars while on the job.

The American Bar Association says the issue is workplace violence and how to reduce it.

The ABA, meeting in Miami, is expected to go on record early next week supporting the right of employers “to exclude from the workplace and other private property, persons in possession of firearms or other weapons.”

Roughly 1,000 people are killed at work each year and guns are used in 80 percent of those incidents, the ABA says, citing federal estimates.

The National Rifle Association says the question is whether employees can protect themselves on their drive home.

The NRA has embarked on a state-by-state campaign to get legislatures to enact laws that require employers to allow their workers to bring guns on company parking lots.

“When you get off work at 12 o'clock or 1 o'clock and you're driving home, you have the right to protect yourself if you're accosted on the highway,” said Wayne LaPierre, the NRA's executive vice president.

The issue has its roots in two unrelated episodes, the firing of employees in Oklahoma and a shooting rampage in Mississippi.

In 2002, forest products giant Weyerhauser Corp. fired eight employees after guns were found in their cars on company lots. Federal courts have upheld the firings.

In response, the Oklahoma Legislature passed a law that would prevent business owners from prohibiting guns inside locked vehicles on company property.

Houston-based ConocoPhillips Inc., which employs more than 3,000 people in Oklahoma, filed a federal lawsuit in an effort to block the law. The issue is pending in the courts.

The NRA, meanwhile, began a boycott of the energy company's Conoco and Phillips 66 products and stepped up efforts to get other states to adopt laws similar to Oklahoma's.

After the Weyerhauser firings, but before the Oklahoma law was enacted, a workplace shooting case occurred that gun-control advocates and businesses point to as a clear example of why guns should be kept far from the factory or office.

In July 2003, Lockheed Martin employee Doug Williams abruptly left a training session at the company's Meridian, Miss., plant and retrieved a shotgun and semiautomatic rifle from his truck in the employee parking lot.

He opened fire on employees, killing six and wounding eight.

Afterward, authorities retrieved three more guns from his truck.

“Unfortunately, this is an all-too-common event,” said Brian Siebel, senior attorney at the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence. “A gun is available in the parking lot for an employee who may be unstable and who reaches a snapping point. This should be a no-brainer.”

But LaPierre said that people in 38 states can legally carry guns in their cars. Federal law permits people to transport guns between states for hunting and other purposes, he said.

If company restrictions were applied broadly, gun owners' rights would be unlawfully limited, LaPierre said.

“In effect, you're nullifying the right to carry,” he said. “People could drive on their highways with the guns, but they couldn't stop anywhere.”

Alaska, Kentucky, Minnesota and Mississippi all have adopted laws that limit employers from barring guns to varying extents.

But the NRA lost legislative battles in several states last year, including Florida and Georgia among states traditionally friendly to gun rights. In those states, business groups mounted unexpectedly strong opposition to the proposals.

[supermanthcs]

once again the media is choosing what they want to report on. where are the statistics showing how many attempted robberies were foiled because the driver had a weapon? since when do new laws affect the lawbreakers? new laws against guns only inhibit law-abiders from defending themselves. GUNS ARE TOOLS, it is the person behind them that make the guns into weapons!

[kaylag04]

If 800 people are killed at work each year by criminals with guns, it sounds like I need to be able to defend myself at work, doesn't it?

[middleman8]

GIVE EM ALL AK7s LET THEM WIPE EACH OTHER OUT ON THE HIGHWAYS, AND GOOD RIDANCE.

[hillaryin08]

Why are the Democrats always trying to take our guns away?

[gunownerdan]

Thomas Jefferson said it best:

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson`s "Commonplace Book," 1774-1776, quoting from "On Crimes and Punishment", by criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1764

[gunownerdan]

Washington DC banned all handguns decades ago.
Today, Washington DC is having a "CRIME EMERGENCY" from violent criminals using HANDGUNS.
It seems that criminals prefer unarmed victims!

[bhappy2-2]

What is wrong with these people? I have a right to keep and bear arms. If I carry MY firearm in MY truck, it isn't anyone elses business. If someone tries to rob me or kill me I have a right to DEFEND myself. If MY firearm is in MY truck I also have the MEANS to defend myself. And defend myself I will. If anyone wants to take MY gun from MY truck they better be ready for a fight! I WILL shoot back.

[chesty95]

bhappy - If you are going to drive your car onto MY property, I have the right to tell you what you can and cannot bring onto MY property. Employers can prevent employees from bringing drugs or alcohol onto company property by threatening to fire them; why can't they do the same with an object that could you could use to kill your boss when he gives you a bad performance review?

Based on your comments, you are exactly the kind of merson these companies are trying to protect their employees from.

[incog-nito]

Once again, people who don't think very well jump to conclusions and decide it's Democrats who want to take guns away. Maybe they should actually read the article: it's business owners who want to keep guns off their property. Not exactly your typical Dem, is it?

[bhappy2-2]

chesty95- So you are one of those idiots who think that we would all be better off if ONLY CRIMINALS had guns?
If I have ANYTHING IN MY VEHICLE, IT IS IN MY PROPERTY, you moron. If you allow me to park MY VEHICLE on your property, IT IS STILL INSIDE OF MY PROPERTY. If you have JUST CAUSE to suspect I have ANYTHING illegal in MY VEHICLE you can request a search BY LAW ENFORCEMENT. And if the law shows up WITH A SEARCH WARRANT, THEY can search my vehicle. If you want to search MY VEHICLE, I will tell you to KISSMYASS!!!!

It seems funny to me that this bozo at the ABA states: "Roughly 1,000 people are killed at work each year and guns are used in 80 percent of those incidents, citing federal estimates."

If that were true, we would be hearing about these 3 office related killings a day.

In addition, it seems to be backed up by Brian Siebel at the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence. He was quoted as saying %u201CUnfortunately, this is an all-too-common event.%u201D

Really? Where did these figures come from? How come I don't hear about these 3 office shootings a day that result in deaths. Clearly the press would be reporting these. They're always looking to scare us.

As far as I'm concerned this sounds like more anti-gun propaganda that will be used to strip us of our right to bear arms.

CBS and Associated Press are again proving their eagerness to report half truths to the population of the United States of America.

"Always Beware."

[gunownerdan]

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

[gunownerdan]

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

[gunownerdan]

Liberals With Guns
http://www.liberalswithguns.com/index.html

Amendment II Democrats
http://www.a2dems.net/

Pro Gun Progressive
http://www.progunprogressive.com/

The Gun Toting Liberal
http://www.guntotingliberal.com/

More Gun Toting Liberals
http://www.geocities.com/guntotingliberals/

Second Amendment Sisters
http://www.2asisters.org

Pink Pistols
http://www.pinkpistols.org

Black Man With A Gun
http://www.blackmanwithagun.com

Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership
http://www.jpfo.org

[thenamesdave]

Of course this turns into a Second Amendment issue instead of what it really is, which is a question of why guns get abused in the first place and wind up in the hands of the wrong people.

[bhappy2-2]

thenamesdave- The hands of the wrong people would be the criminals, who would prefer you NOT be armed. It makes their activities easier and safer. SOME of these wrong hands have guns because THEY STOLE THEM from some law-abiding citizen. So you see Dave, we really need to be able to Keep and Bear Arms, even in our cars, trucks, vans, motorcycles, homes, where-ever a chance exists to be placed in danger by the WRONG HANDS crowd.

[cmhbob]

The people who are going to kill you at your office aren't going to give a big fat flying rat about the boss telling them not to have a gun in the parking lot. Seriously. Think about it. They've already decided they're going to commit murder. Do you REALLY think they care about what the boss might do to them?

On the other hand, shouldn't I be allowed to defend myself against someone who's decided today is the day they're going to go ballistic?

My idea of self-defense is not cowering under the desk praying the cops get to me before the shooter does. The cops don't have a duty to protect me as an individual. But I do.

[bhappy2-2]

cmhbob, GunOwnerDan, LibDemsSuck,
Keep 'em straight. Gotta go for now.
Keep your sights right and your groups tight.

[nativewoman]

Why don't they have some kind of guncheck at work locations?

When they come in they can check their guns in and then check them back out when they leave.

While working the guns are locked up somewhere.

Workers can protect themselves on the way home and guns can be locked up out of harm's way during the work day.

Of course, I guess if a gunman was really wanting to cap somebody, they could wait until they check their gun back out and get 'em in the parking lot.

[justfacts2]

I guess people have forgotten the effectiveness of bats and tasers. For you people who believe this is a good idea, then you really do have *** for brains. Violence in the workforce should not be encouraged by this kind of nonsense. It is not a matter of rights - it is just a matter of common sense. Something this world clearly lacks nowadays.

[rheola-2009]

Criminals will get themseves guns no matter what the situation, even if strict gun laws were brought in, [wouldn't that throw the NRA into panic], however it must certainly be made so much easier for them, with so many dickheads leaving their guns laying around in their vehicles.

[smoothmonte]

This is a free country and as an employer you should be able to decide what is on your property. There are pros and con to every situation. I would not work for any one that did not allow me to keep a firearm in my vehicle safely stored. I doubt that Weyerhauser Corp, ConocoPhillips Inc and Lockheed Martin search everyones vehicle from bumper to bumper checking for firearms so it's a false sense of security just something to make you feel safe or something to save them from a really expensive lawsuit.

[smoothmonte]

This is a free country and as an employer you should be able to decide what is on your property. There are pros and con to every situation. I would not work for any one that did not allow me to keep a firearm in my vehicle safely stored. I doubt that Weyerhauser Corp, ConocoPhillips Inc and Lockheed Martin search everyones vehicle from bumper to bumper checking for firearms so it's a false sense of security just something to make you feel safe or something to save them from a really expensive lawsuit.

[doctxt]

Sure, prevent workers from defending themselves, and permit those who would disobey the law to carry out 'ballistic' at-work crimes with immunity they know they will certainly have - (they know they won't be shot by other employees) - All in the name of 'protecting' workers!!!

Seems this is a 'first step' to putting a stop to all concealed-carry permits.

Besides, although the vehicle is on company property, the vehicle does not belong to the company, and the company has absolutely no responsibility for it - it belongs to the employee. The company would not be liable if the parking brake fell off a car, and it hit another in the parking lot.

It's just another ploy for employers to stick noses into private matters of employees (whom the company would be nonexistent without) under the guise of 'saftey',

[rheola-2009]

Prevent workers from defending themselves etc.

What a load of garbage.

If that were in any way true, it could only be a sad reflection of the depths that American society has sunk to.

[johnshaft4]

Some "battle", huh? If the NRA has all the guns, why aren't they using them against the ABA in this epic battle that surely will determine the fate of all free men and creatures great and small.
Lock'n'Load, Baby!...Fire in the hole!, Yea, baby...Don't you just love the smell of stupidity in the morning?

[amiwrong]

if in general, people would be courteous to one another then most of the gun issues may not even exist. the key word is PEOPLE, the guns did not get up on the wrong side of the bed, the PEOPLE did and people are the problem. all of the bureaucrats in the world cannot fix the one problem at hand and that is the dishonest people with guns. if they take mine, it is because i give it to them. so that makes me a law abiding citizen that puts all faith in the Lord and our government that apparently doesn't believe in God anymore.

[rpm501]

Taking a look at several of the previous postings should make it abundantly clear why employers should have the right to forbid weapons on thier property. The most polite term I can think of is "gun toting fanatics".
Could be an opportunity for making a ton of money. Somewhere on the same block as these major employers just buy a building, put in a gravel lot and stick a bunch of lockers inside. Under-pay one of these yahoos to stand at a counter and charge these people 5 bucks a week to lock up thier guns.
Stop whining long enough to think.

[amiwrong]

hit list at school!!!!!! seems to me that parents are to blame with this picture. teachers cannot keep control of the students these days because they were not taught respect at home. don't make idle threats when it comes to disiplining your children. don't let little john cry his way out of disipline be firm and don't sway back and forth. they must understand that there are penalties for their actions. maybe they will not grow up to be these fanatics that carry guns to work and lose their mind. i seriously hope that the penalties for these list at these 3 schools are strong enough and fair enough to get the message across.
when you get back and look at some of these things most of which could have been fixed at home without congress.

[dallison7]

%u201CWhen you get off work at 12 o'clock or 1 o'clock and you're driving home, you have the right to protect yourself if you're accosted on the highway,%u201D said Wayne LaPierre, the NRA's executive vice president

YEAH, everyone should carry a gun in their car!! DURN RIGHT!! In fact, everyone should carry a machine gun in their car!! CAN YOU SAY ROAD RAGE?? No need for law enforcement, let's SHOOT IT OUT IN THE STREETS!! I have the right to protect myself from rude drive-thru employees at McDonalds. BRING IT ON you smart-mouthed little freedon-fry toten b*tch!!

[gunownerdan]

When the police are the only people allowed to have weapons, it's called a POLICE STATE.
http://www.a-human-right.com

[gunownerdan]

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
-- Thomas Jefferson quoting from "On Crimes and Punishment", by criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1764

In other words, if I was a suicidal homicidal maniac and I wanted to kill a bunch of people, any law would be the last thing on my mind!

[dallison7]

In other words, if I was a suicidal homicidal maniac and I wanted to kill a bunch of people, any law would be the last thing on my mind!
Posted by GunOwnerDan

DURN RIGHT!! And I want my gun with me, in the car or wherever I am just in case I decide to do just that. HECK, YOU NEVER KNOW, the boss might say something that really TICS ME OFF and if I don't have my gun with me I won't be able to do anything about it. And, what if I see a white gurl ridin' around with a darkie.. BY GOSH, I WANT MY GUN RIGHT THERE BESIDE ME.

[gunownerdan]

"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun."
The Dalai Lama

[gunownerdan]

The very first gun-control laws in America were used by the south to disarm freed slaves who had guns to feed themselves and to protect themselves from LYNCH MOBS and the KKK.

GET EDUCATED:
blackmanwithagun.com

[dallison7]

"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun."
The Dalai Lama

Posted by GunOwnerDan




EXACTAMUNDO!! That's why I insist on having my gun within reach at all times!! Seems like everytime I step out of the house SOMEONE TRIES TO KILL ME!! And, I'm gettin' real tired of it!! In fact I'm thinking about having a 50 CALIBER mounted on my pickup!! Next time I see one of them suckers getting ready to take a pot-shot at me, I'LL BLOW EM' TO SMITHERINES!!!

[gunownerdan]

Self defense is not only a constitutional right, it is the most basic of human rights there is.
Criminals prefer unarmed victims.
Outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns!

[dallison7]

Self defense is not only a constitutional right, it is the most basic of human rights there is
Posted by GunOwnerDan

I'm sure glad I found someone I can agree with!! BY GOLLY, we need to defend ourselves!! And the ONLY WAY TO DEFEND YOURSELF is with a gun!! I sick of those LILLY-LIVERED SISSYS who like to run around talking about EDUCATION and CIVILIZED SOCIETY and 19th CENTURY MENTALITY and things like that!! Those folks are THREATENING MY WAY OF LIFE!! If they were here right now I'D SHOOT THE HELL OUT OF 'EM!! Got my gun right here on the desk!

[gunownerdan]

"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who
are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who
regard the preservation of freedom as the basic
purpose of their daily life and who are willing to
consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom."
- President John F. Kennedy

"Certainly one of the chief guarantees of freedom
under any government, no matter how popular and respected,
is the right of citizens to keep and bear arms ...
The right of citizens to bear arms is just one guarantee
against arbitrary government, one more safeguard, against
the tyranny which now appears remote in America but which
historically has proven to be always possible."
- Hubert H. Humphrey, Senator, Vice President, 22 October 1959

"The Second Amendment is a doomsday provision, one
designed for those exceptionally rare circumstances
where all other rights have failed -- where the
government refuses to stand for reelection and
silences those who protest; where courts have lost the
courage to oppose, or can find no one to enforce their
decrees. However improbable these contingencies may
seem today, facing them unprepared is a mistake a free
people get to make only once."
- Justice Alex Kozinski, US 9th Circuit Court, 2003

[dallison7]

That's *** GOOD READIN' pardner. I gotta go now, but you keep the cause going, you hear? And be sure to double dead-bolt the door, you don't know what might be out there!!

[plowhandle]

Pathetic rubbernecked geeks.

[thgdriver]

This is just another form of gun control running amok, they point to a few isolated cases and then step on the neck of law abiding citizens everywhere.

They own the parking lot, I agree they have a right to say "what" and or who can be on it.

I work for a large company that bars guns anywhere on their property. I simply park on a public lot nearby or in the street. They can take their anti-gun rule and shove it up their browntown highway.

[bluestardad]

LEAVE OUR GUNS ALONE!

Hey Congress, We know you cannot protect innocent high school pages in the Halls of Congress nor put Pedophiles in Jail like Mark Foley, how about thieves of billions of dollars, and Liars that cause the deaths and Maiming of Thousands of American Soldiers and sends our country to a war on a lie? The Middle East is not in American Interest, we have invested 50 years of blood, and money is enough is enough! Did the Israeli or Saudi Arabian Neocons slip you some money how about thirty pieces of silver for your vote or compliancy in this war?
Write your congressman and let them know how you feel! firststatehttp://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

It seems funny to me that this bozo at the ABA states: "Roughly 1,000 people are killed at work each year and guns are used in 80 percent of those incidents, citing federal estimates."

If that were true, we would be hearing about these 3 office related killings a day.

In addition, it seems to be backed up by Brian Siebel at the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence. He was quoted as saying %u201CUnfortunately, this is an all-too-common event.%u201D

Really? Where did these figures come from? How come we don't hear about these 3 office shootings a day that result in deaths. Clearly the press would be reporting these. They're always looking to scare us.

As far as I'm concerned this sounds like more anti-gun propaganda that will be used to strip us of our right to bear arms.

CBS and Associated Press are again proving their eagerness to report half truths to the population of the United States of America.

"Always Be Aware."

[bhappy2-2]

NativeWoman- Why would I want to give my gun to someone else who may decide to use MY GUN for a crime, then put it back in THEIR lock-up to await being picked up be me? This would be asking for more trouble than you can imagine. My gun gets used for a crime, I pick MY gun up at the end of the day, the police investigate the crime and find MY gun fired the shot that killed someone. I go to jail without having done anything wrong because I can't prove someone else used MY GUN without MY CONSENT. This is just a bad idea all around.

[mw6267]

Dallison7 appears to have alot of time on her hands. Is she in the 'waiting' room of an abortion clinic perhaps? Or maybe taking a break from the national PETA convention. No wait, let me guess, a gay-rights advocate.

The fore-fathers had it right, back then and even now. Long live the greatest nation ever to exist, the United States of America. I only hope (and pray) these fringe left extremists lose what little effectiveness they think they have.

[gunownerdan]

"Roughly 1,000 people are killed at work each year and guns are used in 80 percent of those incidents, the ABA says, citing federal estimates."

This is why it is very important for convenience store clerks and small shop owners to be armed and prepared to protect themselves and their properties!
Violent criminals prefer easy unarmed victims.
Self Defense:
A-HUMAN-RIGHT.com

[gunownerdan]

"Roughly 1,000 people are killed at work each year and guns are used in 80 percent of those incidents, the ABA says, citing federal estimates."

This is why it is very important for convenience store clerks and small shop owners to be armed and prepared to protect themselves and their co-workers!
Violent criminals prefer easy unarmed victims.
Self Defense:
A-HUMAN-RIGHT.com

[olgreyghost]

I strongly believe in the people's right to keep and BEAR arms but this a private property issue and I will have to side with the employers in this regard no matter how misguided their decisions are. Whose property is it? He who owns the property or acts in that person's stead can make the decisions about who is welcome on the property and how they must behave while they are there. Employees are certainly free to work somewhere else, start their own business, or park down the street.

I always ask law enforcement officials to disarm themselves before entering on to my property - funny thing is they never seem to listen...

[hissteps4u]

In Every state that I know of it is Illegal to have a loaded Gun within reach of the driver exceptions of course with a license to carry a conceled permit.

Nothint Illegal about a gUn in plain sight though in most states thats fine. I always kept mine on the dash or in the seat next to me.

I hate the NRA too Heston needs to retire to mount olive and seek absolution....