Bar Assn., NRA Battle Over Guns In Cars

Groups Square Off Over Guns In Company Parking Lots

(AP)  Employee parking lots have become an unlikely focus in the fight over gun rights.

The nation's largest lawyers group is taking on the biggest gun rights organization over employers' rights to bar workers from leaving guns in their cars while on the job.

The American Bar Association says the issue is workplace violence and how to reduce it.

The ABA, meeting in Miami, is expected to go on record early next week supporting the right of employers “to exclude from the workplace and other private property, persons in possession of firearms or other weapons.”

Roughly 1,000 people are killed at work each year and guns are used in 80 percent of those incidents, the ABA says, citing federal estimates.

The National Rifle Association says the question is whether employees can protect themselves on their drive home.

The NRA has embarked on a state-by-state campaign to get legislatures to enact laws that require employers to allow their workers to bring guns on company parking lots.

“When you get off work at 12 o'clock or 1 o'clock and you're driving home, you have the right to protect yourself if you're accosted on the highway,” said Wayne LaPierre, the NRA's executive vice president.

The issue has its roots in two unrelated episodes, the firing of employees in Oklahoma and a shooting rampage in Mississippi.

In 2002, forest products giant Weyerhauser Corp. fired eight employees after guns were found in their cars on company lots. Federal courts have upheld the firings.

In response, the Oklahoma Legislature passed a law that would prevent business owners from prohibiting guns inside locked vehicles on company property.

Houston-based ConocoPhillips Inc., which employs more than 3,000 people in Oklahoma, filed a federal lawsuit in an effort to block the law. The issue is pending in the courts.

The NRA, meanwhile, began a boycott of the energy company's Conoco and Phillips 66 products and stepped up efforts to get other states to adopt laws similar to Oklahoma's.

After the Weyerhauser firings, but before the Oklahoma law was enacted, a workplace shooting case occurred that gun-control advocates and businesses point to as a clear example of why guns should be kept far from the factory or office.

In July 2003, Lockheed Martin employee Doug Williams abruptly left a training session at the company's Meridian, Miss., plant and retrieved a shotgun and semiautomatic rifle from his truck in the employee parking lot.

He opened fire on employees, killing six and wounding eight.

Afterward, authorities retrieved three more guns from his truck.

“Unfortunately, this is an all-too-common event,” said Brian Siebel, senior attorney at the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence. “A gun is available in the parking lot for an employee who may be unstable and who reaches a snapping point. This should be a no-brainer.”

But LaPierre said that people in 38 states can legally carry guns in their cars. Federal law permits people to transport guns between states for hunting and other purposes, he said.

If company restrictions were applied broadly, gun owners' rights would be unlawfully limited, LaPierre said.

“In effect, you're nullifying the right to carry,” he said. “People could drive on their highways with the guns, but they couldn't stop anywhere.”

Alaska, Kentucky, Minnesota and Mississippi all have adopted laws that limit employers from barring guns to varying extents.

But the NRA lost legislative battles in several states last year, including Florida and Georgia among states traditionally friendly to gun rights. In those states, business groups mounted unexpectedly strong opposition to the proposals.

[mw6267]

OlGreyGhost-
Oh, I see every day how corporations can do whatever they want on their property. I see them losing lawsuits concerning race discrimination, age discrimination, and other wrongful terminations to boot. I think the first time they fired someone over what car they drove, the headlines and suits filed the next day would quickly reverse that 'mistaken' decision.

When the first wrongful termination lawsuit is lost (by a major corporation) concerning lawful transportation of firearms, I think you will see these ridiculous policies dropped.

Please remember, all the big cities were suing gun manufacturers until legislation was passed. Common sense will prevail.

Agnim-
If you and all the other gay-rights advocates, pro-abortionists, and career welfare recipients do not appreciate gun ownership by your fellow countrymen, MOVE TO ANOTHER COUNTRY!! Please be aware though, alot of your perverted actions in other countries could get you stoned to death.

Maybe France would have you.

And please......never underestimate your insignificance in my life.

[bhappy2-2]

Agnim- If it is in my vehicle, it IS on my property. Just because I drive my vehicle to work does NOT make it their property.

[gunownerdan]

Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

BRING BACK THE BILL OF RIGHTS!

[bigwhtpony]

The ABA - another left wing operation like the ACLU. They won't be happy until the US beccomes the USSR Part 2.

Go after the law abiding citizen instead of the criminal. It's easier and they hardly put up a fight.

[bluestardad]

This is the contact address for your Senator! Send them a message of your opinion. All Class Two Senators are up for Reelection in 2008. firststatehttp://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

[darkfyreaol]

Company parking lots, eh. Dunno. I can understand banning firearms from company VEHICLES.

However, last I checked, the owner's vehicle was his or her personal property. I'm sure there are laws preventing searches of vehicles and seizure of firearms within, without a court-granted warrant to do so, OR probable cause.

If companies required employees to sign consent forms, I'm sure something could be arranged..Such as allowing registered firearms only, and establishing a reason with the company in question for storing a firearm inside a vehicle that's parked in the company's parking lot.

'Just for the record, why do you have a loaded gun inside your car, sir?'

I don't find -that- unreasonable.

[hsmagst]

Make no mistake, it really is just a liability issue to the businesses.....they don't want the hassle. But it doesn't go across the board for most businesses....if you park on their property, they are not liable for theft from or of the vehicle, they really can't search your vehicle without your permission but they can and will tie permission to your continued employment...if they want to. I was a manager for a large aerospace corp and had an employee pull a gun on me off property. The next day, the company searched the employees car and found the gun. The union bargained and kept the employees job so I was forced to threaten to bring suit to get the employee removed.

[olgreyghost]

Employers CAN ban any vehicle (Chevy, Ford, Dodge, etc.) they want from their property and it's perfectly legal. And the 2nd and 5th Amendments only apply to the actions of benevolent government officials and not to the actions of private citizens on their private property.

Most employers don't give a rodent's posterior when it comes to the safety of their employees. What they worry about is liability lawsuits over employee deaths that are associated with the business. Convince the employers that they will be sued by employees, or their survivors, who are victims of crimes they could have prevented if the employees were armed as local law allows and see how that works. Since less than 10% of population lawfully carries, they will go with the better odds.

Remember, the power a person gives government to use force against others, is the power the government will use against that person one day. If you have the government force these employers to let the employees carry, then you authorize the government to tell you what to do on your own property and that could be to not "keep and bear" guns anymore.

[agnim]

"Bar Assn., NRA Battle Over Guns In Cars"

Get the GUN NUTS by ANY means necessary.
Let the gun nuts store the guns on THEIR properties!

[mw6267]

I am sorry, but I do not buy the 'private property' argument. What if employers decide they want only Chevrolets parked in their lots? It is their property, they should have that right.....right? Employers should not allow any unopened liquor containers in employees' cars because they could then drink it and kill someone, driving drunk. Sounds logical as far as safety, doesn't it?

Transporting cased, unloaded guns in a vehicle is LEGAL in this country. Get over it.

Never buy into the loss of Liberty for the sake of safety.

That is the very stance the extreme-left anti-firearm zealots are taking.

[gunownerdan]

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

[hissteps4u]

In Every state that I know of it is Illegal to have a loaded Gun within reach of the driver exceptions of course with a license to carry a conceled permit.

Nothint Illegal about a gUn in plain sight though in most states thats fine. I always kept mine on the dash or in the seat next to me.

I hate the NRA too Heston needs to retire to mount olive and seek absolution....

[olgreyghost]

I strongly believe in the people's right to keep and BEAR arms but this a private property issue and I will have to side with the employers in this regard no matter how misguided their decisions are. Whose property is it? He who owns the property or acts in that person's stead can make the decisions about who is welcome on the property and how they must behave while they are there. Employees are certainly free to work somewhere else, start their own business, or park down the street.

I always ask law enforcement officials to disarm themselves before entering on to my property - funny thing is they never seem to listen...

[gunownerdan]

"Roughly 1,000 people are killed at work each year and guns are used in 80 percent of those incidents, the ABA says, citing federal estimates."

This is why it is very important for convenience store clerks and small shop owners to be armed and prepared to protect themselves and their co-workers!
Violent criminals prefer easy unarmed victims.
Self Defense:
A-HUMAN-RIGHT.com

[gunownerdan]

"Roughly 1,000 people are killed at work each year and guns are used in 80 percent of those incidents, the ABA says, citing federal estimates."

This is why it is very important for convenience store clerks and small shop owners to be armed and prepared to protect themselves and their properties!
Violent criminals prefer easy unarmed victims.
Self Defense:
A-HUMAN-RIGHT.com

[mw6267]

Dallison7 appears to have alot of time on her hands. Is she in the 'waiting' room of an abortion clinic perhaps? Or maybe taking a break from the national PETA convention. No wait, let me guess, a gay-rights advocate.

The fore-fathers had it right, back then and even now. Long live the greatest nation ever to exist, the United States of America. I only hope (and pray) these fringe left extremists lose what little effectiveness they think they have.

[bhappy2-2]

NativeWoman- Why would I want to give my gun to someone else who may decide to use MY GUN for a crime, then put it back in THEIR lock-up to await being picked up be me? This would be asking for more trouble than you can imagine. My gun gets used for a crime, I pick MY gun up at the end of the day, the police investigate the crime and find MY gun fired the shot that killed someone. I go to jail without having done anything wrong because I can't prove someone else used MY GUN without MY CONSENT. This is just a bad idea all around.

It seems funny to me that this bozo at the ABA states: "Roughly 1,000 people are killed at work each year and guns are used in 80 percent of those incidents, citing federal estimates."

If that were true, we would be hearing about these 3 office related killings a day.

In addition, it seems to be backed up by Brian Siebel at the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence. He was quoted as saying %u201CUnfortunately, this is an all-too-common event.%u201D

Really? Where did these figures come from? How come we don't hear about these 3 office shootings a day that result in deaths. Clearly the press would be reporting these. They're always looking to scare us.

As far as I'm concerned this sounds like more anti-gun propaganda that will be used to strip us of our right to bear arms.

CBS and Associated Press are again proving their eagerness to report half truths to the population of the United States of America.

"Always Be Aware."

[bluestardad]

LEAVE OUR GUNS ALONE!

Hey Congress, We know you cannot protect innocent high school pages in the Halls of Congress nor put Pedophiles in Jail like Mark Foley, how about thieves of billions of dollars, and Liars that cause the deaths and Maiming of Thousands of American Soldiers and sends our country to a war on a lie? The Middle East is not in American Interest, we have invested 50 years of blood, and money is enough is enough! Did the Israeli or Saudi Arabian Neocons slip you some money how about thirty pieces of silver for your vote or compliancy in this war?
Write your congressman and let them know how you feel! firststatehttp://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

[thgdriver]

This is just another form of gun control running amok, they point to a few isolated cases and then step on the neck of law abiding citizens everywhere.

They own the parking lot, I agree they have a right to say "what" and or who can be on it.

I work for a large company that bars guns anywhere on their property. I simply park on a public lot nearby or in the street. They can take their anti-gun rule and shove it up their browntown highway.