Pentagon Underreporting War Injuries?

Veterans Groups: Non-Combat Injuries Being Ignored, Real Number Is More Than Double

(AP)  Veterans groups and Democratic Sen. Barack Obama say U.S. government officials are obscuring the actual number of wounded in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars by leaving out of some public documents troops who suffer non-combat injuries.

From the Pentagon Web site to press materials handed out at the opening of an amputee center in Texas last week, the number of wounded in the wars often circulated publicly is around 23,000.

That number only accounts for those wounded in combat. When troops from those wars who were wounded in other ways are counted, the number more than doubles, to about 53,000.

That latter number is not heavily circulated by the Pentagon. Recently, a Defense Department official publicly criticized a researcher who used it and pressured another government agency to change a public document to report the smaller number.

Obama, a presidential hopeful, wants the government to be more straightforward in reporting on the wounded. He has introduced legislation with Republican Sen. Olympia Snowe to require the Veterans Affairs Department and the Defense Department to "start keeping honest figures on our troops and the potential future costs of the war."

"This is a clear pattern by VA and DOD to conceal the escalating human and financial costs of the two wars from Congress, the press and the public," said Paul Sullivan, veterans advocacy director with Veterans for America.

Non-battle wounds can range from injuries in vehicle accidents to illnesses. Some are sports injuries that need care outside the war zone. Many of the wounded return to duty.

"It doesn't make a difference whether you were hit by enemy fire, or injured because your vehicle crashed, or got sick because of serving in a war zone," Obama said in a statement. "The effects on the soldiers and their families are the same. And the impact in terms of the current fighting force and future demands on the VA are also the same."

Some non-battle wounds can be just as disabling as those inflicted in combat. Dave Autry, deputy national director of communications for Disabled American Veterans, told the story of a soldier riding in the back of a truck when it went off a bridge and into an Iraqi canal.

This soldier, who suffered crushed legs and an injured spine, is not among those listed in the Pentagon's more widely circulated tally, Autry said.

The Pentagon updates its casualty totals for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars daily at www.defenselink.mil.

Clicking on "press resources" or "casualties" on the home page leads to a chart that lists the dead and wounded from combat totals but not totals for the non-battle wounded.

A separate, harder-to-find Pentagon Web site that listed casualties by type for each war had all the wounded. Last week, the number of non-combat wounded was dropped from the chart, produced by the department's Statistical Information and Analysis Division.

Since November, the VA had been reporting about 50,000 wounded from the wars on a Web site fact sheet for media. It changed that number last month to about 21,000 after hearing from the Pentagon, VA spokesman Matt Burns said.

Burns said only combat wounded are supposed to be in the tally.

President George W. Bush's proposed budget increased funding for veterans' medical care from $29.3 billion to $34.2 billion. It anticipated VA providing medical care to nearly 263,000 Iraq and Afghanistan veterans in 2008.

All Iraq and Afghanistan veterans are guaranteed two years of health care at VA when they return from the war. Those with injuries connected to their service get health care treatment beyond the two years.

Also, all Iraq and Afghanistan veterans injured while serving in the wars are eligible for monthly disability payments, regardless of whether they were injured in combat. The amount of the payments is based on the level of disability.

[skyk-2009]

Well it's good to see the DOD doesn't change. They did the EXACT same thing to us during Vietnam. The "Cost" folks is much more that what the VA will pay out for care. The Cost to people like me is much much more when your Grandson want's to play catch or you need to visit someone and have to ask others to help get you there. War is NEVER good... EVER. It is sometimes necessary, not in this case, but NEVER good. The next time you feel the need and that feeling to control the lives of your fellow citizens is so strong you can hardly stand it, THINK of those men with one arm, one leg, half brain... think of them and vote against FASCISM. Combat Vet, RVN, 1968

[migrainegram]

No doubt about it!

The Pentagon and the President are in bed together.

[bluestardad]

Bush Gave Bremer a medal!

L. Paul Bremer III, who was head of the Coalition Provisional Authority,was given 363 tons of cash that was loaded onto airplanes and sent into the war zone in 2003, adding that U.S. officials had "no way of knowing whether the cash would wind up in enemy hands." Can you believe this? Tons of money stacked on wooden platforms! Still they don't know where billions of dollars went?

This administration is as foolhardy with the lives of our troops as they are of the money too.

Bush gave this idiot a medal!

[hillaryin08]

bluestardad

Do you make this stuff up or do you get your talking points from the DNC?

[tuckerndfw]

George Walker Bush is a pathological liar.

That can be easily deduced by replaying the lies he has told since he first learned how to mispronounce words.

Why anyone would believe anything he says, or be surprised that he (his entire administration) is a liar, is beyond me.

If you want the truth, turn whatever Bozo says around 180 degrees and you'll have the truth.

He is the most corrupt & incompetent president in US history. And, is an amoral degenerate. Takes after his mother in that respect. She is totally lacking morals, as well.

[dallison7]

This administration is as foolhardy with the lives of our troops as they are of the money too.

Bush gave this idiot a medal!


Posted by bluestardad at


$12 BILLION MISSING, MISSING!!

[dallison7]

Of course they are under-reporting casualties. Remember when the invasion first took place reporters were not allowed to photograph the coffins as they arrived back in the states?

[dallison7]

"We know he's been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons, and we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons."

VP *** Cheney %u2013 %u201CMeet the Press%u201D 3/16/2003

[dallison7]

"Our intelligence sources tell us that he (Saddam) has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production."

State of the Union Address %u2013 1/28/2003

[dallison7]

%u201CWe have also discovered through intelligence
that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas."

State of the Union Address %u2013 1/28/2003

[dallison7]

CAN WE JUST IMPEACH THESE AZZH*LES!!

[luvny-2009]

Just another line of BS from Bush & Co. Our troops DESERVE the best care we can give them and for as long as they need it.

[ihatebush1]

Figures.....

I'm so mad I could just spit....!

[dixiebobh]

I don't doubt casualties are being unreported. That has been the case since WW1. Nothing turns John Q Republic's stomach more that seeing coffins with the flag draped across it coming from "over there", where ever "that" is.

Bush is responsible for this entire mess. Congress is guilty of being gullible fools. The public hasn't' been asked to 1. Pay more taxes to support the war, or 2. institute the needed draft to increase the number of young men and women to send "over there".

Wake up America.

[reel-crazy]

Underreporting casualties is merely one thing this administration has to it's credit... the entire list of underreporting is staggering and mainly at the level within our own country.. we are only told what they want us to hear.. nothing more, nothing less....

[rray52]

I am weary of headlines with question marks.

%u201CPentagon Underreporting War Injuries?%u201D


Combat wounded have, as far back as I can remember, have been totaled separately from non-combat injured. Both totals are available, only in some places not side by side.
How does a call for user friendly reports morph into the above headline

[jn122736]

%u201CBush is responsible for this entire mess. Congress is guilty of being gullible fools. The public hasn't' been asked to 1. Pay more taxes to support the war, or 2. institute the needed draft to increase the number of young men and women to send "over there.%u201D
Posted by dixiebobh at 08:58 AM : Feb 07, 2007
----------------------

Unfortunately, a majority of the voting public in the 2004 elections must be added to that culpability list.

Fortunately, in the mid term elections of 2006, a majority of the voting public acknowledged how wrong their actions had been and changed course.

President Bush has failed to heed the demands of his constituency and continues with the same policy of deceit. The small minority who continue to support and make excuses for him are guilty of the same deceit.

[webdepot]

The corruption, secrecy and lying this administration has promoted since it's inception, has been spilling over into every government agency.... from EPA, to Pentagon, to Dept of Education... to Homeland Security... just about every agency has taken their cue from this b*astardized administration.. It will take generations to repair all the fre*kin' damage caused by Bush/Cheney and the neocons...

Don't look for any honesty in government any time soon...

As one poster has already stated, casualty figures have always been categorized in every conflict.... but what is different about the current administration, is half the data is hidden from public view...

Herr Bush has learned well from Goebbels..

[blugrass1023]

You have got to be kidding me Hussein Obama!

Sick soldiers, car accidents! Are you trying to say if the person got a staple in their hand or ran into the back of a bus with their F150 here in the USA, then it wouldn't be significant but the fact it happens in Iraq makes it a travisty? Needless pain and suffering that would end if we brought our troops home. I am recently a 20 year retired veteran in the military, I fell off my ladder last month removing Christmas (I'm sorry) Holiday lights, and I got the most painfull sting of an ouchy in my ankle, please Mr. Hussein Obama, take note of the "statistic" that is being hidden from the oh so concerned public. You should be more concerened with how many homicides are being committed in your home state each year. Or what about the total deaths from "Brokeback Mountain" virus in the US each year. I guess that doesn't count because it wasn't an accident, a free willed decision was made to "enter the back door". Well the people serving in Iraq isn't an accident either, it was a free will act called "Voluntary Enlistment".

Sometimes I wonder if you people would wipe your mouth after you got done spewing some of your nosense there would be SKID MARKS on your napkin.

[jn122736]

Blugrass1023;
You are an excellent %u201Cposter boy%u201D for the compassionate conservatism shown by this administration these past seven years.

Does anybody remember Bush sarcastically saying %u201Cdon%u2019t compare me with Bill Clinton%u201D (or words to that effect)?
I assume he was referring to Clinton%u2019s lying.
He was absolutely correct. Bill Clinton couldn%u2019t hold a light for him in that respect.

[lochlan-2009]

Anyone see the $12billion ( --- that's $12,000million) that went missing in Iraq. "Woops... Where did that 300+ tons of cash go I just left here sitting on pallets? Oh well, no need for an inquiry." The people who are currently standing behind this Administration are idiots, no way around it.

Hey morons, if you support the Bush Administration please post your credit card number here.
-
-
-
-
Just kidding, Dumb***'s. People can steal from you if you do that.

[blugrass1023]

Exactly the response I was looking for. Please do not ever try to defend yourself in a court of law. With the kind of defense you people spew, you would somehow manage to get yourselves the death penalty for running a stop sign. The easiest way to prove any point I may have, is to just have you people type.

21st Century Einstien: "The only 2 things that are infinite; Space & liberal ignorance".

[huskerarmy]

"Mr. Hussein Obama..."

Hummm... What could the purpose of this atypical reference to Barrack Obama be? File this one in your GOPer code book.

[jn122736]

Quote: %u201C21st Century Einstien: "The only 2 things that are infinite; Space & liberal ignorance".

One should be careful comparing him/herself to Einstein.

There are those who are geniuses in their own minds. They place themselves on precariously high pedestals to look down on others merely to come crashing down when their characters are exposed by their degrading and insulting comments.

Have a nice day.

[huskerarmy]

"Or what about the total deaths from "Brokeback Mountain" virus in the US each year."

Bluegrass, you are obviously an enlightened man. As I have never heard of this particular virus before, can you please share with us the demographics of this blight? Is it only in this country? Are the demographics the same everywhere? Is there a particularly heinus reason that we should make light of everyone who suffer and die from this virus?

[j4401]

Why would the VA underreport casualties? As a former VA employee at the San Diego VAMC, I could offer that lack of integrity and honesty is obvious at VA facilities. Maybe we taxpayers could provide medical coverage to our veterans by other means rather than the VA system. I am sure it would more cost effective and efficient.

[getcentered]

GOP politics has corrupted every part of our government!

Lets see:

The White House.......we all know who lives there.
Pentagon..............rummy left a stink
DOD...................don't you mean Halliburton?
Congress..............the voters got rid of some of them.

I'm leaving out plenty of places the GOP/Republicans have corrupted, but that's not the point. The point is that GOP/Republicans of today are "the old world leaders", today we need progressive "new world thinkers" in government.

POWER is the only thing I can think the GOP/Republicans stand for. I think they should all get voted out, every last one of them. The world is changing too fast for leaders who can't govern with an open mind.

[frankly6]

Another day another deception courtesy of Bush and co.

[Syndicate]

It is of more value to know about those who were wounded in battle. The guy who steped in a goffer hole (or what ever digs holes in Iraq) and twisted his ankle does not concern me. Its kind of like that casulty level. Do you count the guys out *** around who flipped thier hum vee into the river and drowned? I don't think you should I want pure numbers I want it broke down into this guy died from an assin's bullet and this one is in the running for A darwin award. Do they give purple hearts for non combat injuries? Anyways all numbers should be reported but they should be broke down with as much detail as possible. That way we can all sit around and argue about how to interpret them.

[jn122736]

Re. cbscrash07 at 12:04 PM : Feb 07, 2007:

The discussion here is not about casualties not being logged separately and/or accurately, it is about the degree of inaccessibility to the numbers of non-combat injuries and illnesses.
The general public is only given the actual combat injuries in pentagon reports.
No matter how the non-combat injuries occur, they would not have happened except for being in the combat areas.

[drdilemma]

Why are Bush and Cheny still in office? I am somewhat disappointed in our newly elected officials. I am still waiting patiently to hear the "I" word.
Republicans had the audacity to try and impeach Clinton because he was a pimp, and here we are lie after lie, one dead soldier after another, more lies, more dead Iraqis, no progress on the real threat, N. Korea. Intimidation of Iran. More lies... What the ef...

Bush counts our war dead only on those who are killed and pronounced dead on the battle field. Those brave troops that die enroute to a hospital or die later in Germany ARE NOT COUNTED. Some estimate our actual troop dead at 8,000 to 10,000. These PNAC GOP pukes are one despictable group.

[webdepot]

This will be hitting the local news soon... it was on the Reuters news feeds:
"WASHINGTON -- After numerous denials, the Pentagon has confirmed that a North Carolina company provided armed security guards in Iraq under a subcontract that was buried so deeply the government couldn't find it."

The original contract went to Halliburton, who sub-contracted to KBR, who subcontracted to some hotel outfit, who subcontracted to this outfit.. of course, every subcontract has it's "profit margin", so while the end contractor is paying his employees $600 a day/person... Halliburton is charging the government (read that us poor slob taxpayers) $1500 a day/person...

It's just another example of secrecy, corruption and waste.. This is by far and away the most disgusting administration ever to hold office in this country...

[webdepot]

Hey Yuki....
"Those brave troops that die enroute to a hospital or die later in Germany ARE NOT COUNTED."

That is a BS fairy tale that has been debunked numerous times already... stick with the facts and stop spreading rumor... it only makes your arguments less credible..

hey webdepot
You are obviously a PNAC lemming, willing to swallow their swill without critical thought. Why do you think the PNAC global elite wont show our war dead caskets returning home?

[getcentered]

webdepot said:


"It's just another example of secrecy, corruption and waste.. This is by far and away the most disgusting administration ever to hold office in this country... "


Enough said.

[getcentered]

Who can we trust?

By the way I do despise G.W. Bush, but not just him. I despise ALL civil leaders in our government who in 2001 planned and executed THE WAR IN IRAQ.

I also despise all who "support" our president's decision to go to Iraq.

Americans were not told the truth about how little a threat Iraq posed.

Better and peaceful ways of ending what threat Iraq did pose were ignored and never given the chance.

3000+ Americans are dead in a war we didn't NEED to fight.

50,000 Americans are injured in a war we didn't NEED to fight.

100,000 Iraq civilians are dead in war that Americans caused.

2 evils caused this war; G.W. Bush and GOP/Republicans.

[webdepot]

Well Yuki,
You obviously haven't read any of my posts on this or any other thread... oh well... no sense having a battle of wits with an unarmed person... it's not fair..

Have a great day...

[clemenhagen1]

This whole war has been packaged for TV and image controlled from the outset. No filming of flag-covered caskets. "Daring rescue efforts of Jessica Lynch" sold as live coverage, as opposed to staged photo op. Captain Codpiece using the troops as props while landing in front of a Mission Accomplished banner, even though it didn't actually take place out at sea but rather staged right off the coast of San Diego. Pat Tillman packaged as patriotic hero, only to have his death covered up and lied about. Underestimating Iraqi civilian deaths? Of course. Under-reporting U.S. casualties, injuries, suicides, etc. But, of course. What else would you possibly expect from the spin doctors in this lying and corrupt regime.

[randalds]

I think it'll be many years after this insanity is over before we find out just how many really died and were wounded, if ever. This administration has brought keeping secrets from the people they work for, us, to an art form. Or at least it would be if they weren't so pathetically obvious and incompetent about it. Maybe after the powers that be or in prison we can use some of their "enhanced interrogation techniques" on them and find out the truth. If so I want to be the one to use the water on some of them.

[perception5]

Another corrupt story from our corrupt liberal MSM wolfpack and one of their favorite pals Obama........says "nothing" only makes the normal liberal conspriacy charge.......just another attempt by our corrupt liberal media to undermine the war on terror........ and to further contaminated and stir up the American public.........

[huskerarmy]

Just another post by the right wing tools of the plutocracy discounting the opinions of the American public and stirring up support for their phony war for oil.

[clemenhagen1]

Perception writes: "just another attempt by our corrupt liberal media to undermine the war on terror........ and to further contaminated and stir up the American public"

As the old saying goes, "Perception is reality." It doesn't matter what the truth might be, the only issue of importance is what the individual in question believes to be true. They have whipped your fear with images and jingoistic phrases throughout your lifetime, Perception. They have repeated the mantra again and again until you can mumble the slogans in your sleep. They asked you to buy duct tape in preparation for the coming biological weapons attack so you trooped right down to WalMart and bought a whole box. You have it stocked neatly down in the cellar right next to those lima beans that were going to get you through Y2K. I'll stop typing now, as I know you have some black helicopters on which to keep your eye. Good vigilance to you, Sarge. I hear tell the Minutemen need some reinforcement along the border.

[huskerarmy]

"They have repeated the mantra again and again until you can mumble the slogans in your sleep."

A conservative without slogans is like a plague without disease.

[talkingham]

While we are at it-- how much equipment and material do husker and perception think the liberal media is going to leave in Iraq and Afganiwhatever. I'm sure the paltry 20,000 troops der Bush is sending over will really make a huge diff. Se nada. The shock and awe crowd was pleased as punch when the corrupt liberal media televised the blasting of Bagdhad live in primw time in 2003 -- now they don't want to show anything about what's gone wrong with the utterly stupid non-plan for victory and "occupation."

This would all be teribly funny if it weren't so tragic for so many thousands of people who are dead and maimed. Great job der Bush and his neo-con handlers. Maybe youa nd your crowqd will bankrupt the country financially - you've already doen the moral damage with years of lies and "half-truths."

[bluestardad]

Can you believe that! Pentagon Underreporting War Injuries! How could that happen? must be the Fog of War or maybe the blindness of Bushit!

[rafterman1]

"Non-battle wounds can range from injuries in vehicle accidents to illnesses. Some are sports injuries that need care outside the war zone."

If 23,000 were wounded in combat and 53,000 were wouded overall, that means 30,000 were wounded in "non-combat". What the frig were these guys doing? Falling off of trucks, slamming face first into doors? Apparently, the US military is not only the most powerful on Earth, they are the clumsiest too. Yikes.

[book54552134]

The Bush Administration is fond of saying that Iraq is not Vietnam as casualties are a fraction (less than 10%) of those that occurred in Vietnam.
The truth is that, were it not for big advancements by the US in battlefield medical technology, the casualty figures would be quite similar despite a smaller US military in Iraq as opposed to the number of US military that was present in Vietnam.

[motherjones-2009]

Perception5

It's not MSM, but truth that has a liberal bias. Republicans, in typical Pavlovian dog form, proclaim "liberal bias" everytime they see or read a news report that doesn't conform to their world of make believe. This self-delusion would be sad it it weren't so dangerous and vicious.

[tejasdemo]

Republicans are nothing but crooks and liars and this is just another example.

How do Republicans sleep at night knowing how many lives they have destroyed ?