NEW YORK, Feb. 6, 2007

Immigration Fueling White Supremacists

Study: Ku Klux Klan And Neo-Nazis Are Gaining Members As Immigrants Become More Visible

  • Groups linked to the Ku Klux Klan, skinheads and neo-Nazis grew significantly more active between 2000 and 2005, a new study says. Photo

    Groups linked to the Ku Klux Klan, skinheads and neo-Nazis grew significantly more active between 2000 and 2005, a new study says.  (AP)

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(AP)  Huge street protests made millions of immigrants more visible and powerful last year, but they also seem to have revived a hateful counter force: white supremacists.

Groups linked to the Ku Klux Klan, skinheads and neo-Nazis grew significantly more active, holding more rallies, distributing leaflets and increasing their presence on the Internet — much of it focused on stirring anti-immigrant sentiment, a new report released by the Anti-Defamation League says.

"Extremist groups are good at seizing on whatever the hot button is of the day and twisting the message to get new members," Deborah M. Lauter, ADL Civil Rights director, said Monday. "This one seems to be taking hold with more of mainstream America than we'd like to see."

Old Klan chapters have been revived and new ones started throughout the South, historically the heart of the group, and in other places such as Michigan, Iowa and New Jersey, says the report, which was scheduled for official release Tuesday.

Last May in Alabama, an anti-immigration rally included slogans such as, "Let's get rid of the Mexicans!" according to the document, titled "Ku Klux Klan Rebounds."

"The Klan is increasingly cooperating with other extremist groups and Neo-Nazi groups," Lauter said. "That's a new phenomenon."

Between 2000 and 2005, hate groups mushroomed 33 percent and Klan chapters by 63 percent, according to Mark Potok, director of the Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks hate crimes.

Precise data are difficult to pin down, but Potok's group counts as many as 150 Klan chapters with up to 8,000 members nationwide. More than 800 hate groups exist around the country, Southern Poverty research shows.

In the late 1990s, memberships in such groups was crumbling as they lost leaders and struggled to organize, said Brian Levin, director of the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism at California State University, San Bernardino. Many hit bottom around 2000.

"Whenever you think the Klan is down and out, they find another way to reinvent themselves," he said of the recent resurgence.

Historically, the Klan's focus had been to terrorize African-Americans — through race riots, lynchings and other killings — but it reached peak membership at more than 4 million in the 1920s by focusing on immigration.

Newcomers from Ireland and Germany were portrayed as Catholic usurpers invading the United States, taking jobs from native-born Americans and undermining national fabric, Levin said.

Said Potok: "It's remarkable to look back at the nativist sentiments toward Catholics — it's very similar to what we're seeing with Mexicans now."

Today, many white supremacists blame immigrants, particularly Hispanics, for crime, struggling schools or unemployment, for instance. With many Americans already divided on how to revamp laws and practices to address the nation's swelling immigrant communities, immigration "is an issue that works for hate groups," Potok said.

Many Latinos are feeling the effects firsthand. Last September, a Kentucky family originally from El Salvador found a wooden cross burning on their front lawn just weeks after they moved in. Earlier last year, a Latino teenager in Houston was brutally beaten and sodomized while one attacker screamed "White Power!" The victim barely survived, and one attacker was sentenced to life in prison.

"I've been doing (Hispanic advocacy work) for a long, long time and the atmosphere has never been as poisonous as it has been in the last few years," said Lisa Navarrete, a vice president at the National Council of La Raza. "The level of vitriol is new."

Increasingly, fear permeates many Hispanic communities as individuals and businesses are targeted. Last year, La Raza held a workshop at its annual convention titled "Keeping Our Institutions Safe."

"It was very well attended, unfortunately," Navarrete said.


© MMVII The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

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Add a Comment See all 56 Comments
by olebd February 6, 2007 4:58 PM PST
CBS - Big difference between LEGAL immigrants and ILLEGAL immigrants...you and other news outlets seem to be attempting to blur the line.
Reply to this comment
by huskerarmy February 6, 2007 5:01 PM PST
olebd,

Are you suggesting that white supremacists just don't like the "illegal" ones? Are those the new "kinder and genteler" white supremacists?Those aren't the white supremacists I know.
Reply to this comment
by titocordero February 6, 2007 5:46 PM PST
We see how these racist groups are reacting to Illegal and legal immigrants for that matter. 'Cause I believe that it's all the same to these inbred ignorant fools. To them if your not white you're not right. Anyway if this is their reaction to the immigration issue just think what their reaction would be to an African American in the Whitehouse..............AS PRESIDENT!!!! I'd say eat your hearts out KKK, Skinheads and the rest of you ignorantbastards.
Reply to this comment
by random_radar February 6, 2007 5:58 PM PST
The United States took 2/3 of Mexico's territory by force in the Mexican American War. At least the Mexicans are trying to take it back peacefully.

I don't know what everyone is talking about with this immigration problem. California, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, and Colorado were all Mexican territories before they were stolen by the United States. Isn't the original owner justified in retrieving their stolen property?
Reply to this comment
by angermngmnt February 6, 2007 6:34 PM PST
These increases in "White Supremacist" groups are highly indicia of another cause i.e. the governments refusal to listen to their complaints on illegal and mass immigration. Because the government won't listen to them, then the angers got to manifest itself somewhere (hence the growing of these groups). Alot of Americans just don't want immigration.
Reply to this comment
by msphere February 6, 2007 6:38 PM PST
I love these people, The White Supremacists, that hid behind God and bed sheets to justify their stupidity and hate.I would love to standing by Heaven's gate if just one of them happens to make it there. A picture of the look on their face when they see that Jesus was Arabic, would be worth a millon dollars. And yes, He was Arabic. He was born in the Middle East. ( Arabic Desent )I'm sure glad I don't read their Bible or serve their God. And as far as Mexicans being here, let them alone and get a job!!!! If more Americans would work, there wouldn't be so many jobs available. Besides, if your family was hungry would you go to another country to support them if you had to? You bet your sweet Taco you would!!!!
Reply to this comment
by olgreyghost February 6, 2007 6:44 PM PST
Well at least the picture shows the truth that these folks fly the Stars and Stripes as often as the fly the Confederate Battle Flag.

random_radar:

The States you mention were occupied territory during the Mexican-American War which Mexico started as a border dispute. They were conceded to the U.S. by the treaty that settled the war. They were not stolen by the U.S. but by the Mexican government who gave them to the U.S. over the objection of the private property owners who lived the area. Some fled to Mexico and the rest stayed and became Americans (if they weren't Indian, which is a whole 'nother story).
Reply to this comment
by sharncedar February 6, 2007 7:08 PM PST
What the article leaves out is the massive swell in the membership of Hispanic racist gangs and criminal organizations, which outnumber so-called white gangs by 10 to 1. These Hispanic gangs commit racist-motivated mayhem and murder throughout the nation, as well as drug trafficking and general disorder. their actions impact this country with more deaths and cost each year than terrorism, and they are in fact foreigners who are illegally inside the US, breaking law and committing racist acts. But I guess they are loved by Bush and the rich, so no mention, instead some poor uneducated skinheads get roaste donce again.
Reply to this comment
by Jasonian18 February 6, 2007 7:17 PM PST
definately true CBS is blurring the line because they don't want to show they crossed the line its no wonder the clans are acting out when the news stations don't even mention the facts as they are.
Reply to this comment
by February 6, 2007 7:25 PM PST
COOL!!!

Where do I sign up??
Reply to this comment
by olebd February 6, 2007 8:27 PM PST
I'm saying the mass migration of illegals into the U.S. (Which CBS and others simply call immigrants) are the reason the hate is growing inside these over the top supremicist groups.

Also ditto what SharnCedar and Jason-Plo said. The illegals don't give a *** about this country nor it's legal citizens or laws....they are sucking the life out of this country.
Reply to this comment
by sasi1-2009 February 6, 2007 8:29 PM PST
Had this country upheld the immigration laws, the KKK etc. would not have had this issue to use for their membership drives. Yes, mainstream America is upset over all the illegals, and the COST of same. The illegals use every available social service organization for everything they can get. They use our hospital emergency rooms & never pay. Their gang members have increased the crime in this country by a large percentage. They bring illegal drugs into this country by the ton, and now we have two Border Guards in prison because they tried to stop one drug runner. They carry the MEXICAN flag down the streets of our country, and this infuriates many of us.

If our elected officials truly want to stop the rise of supremecists, then they need to get off their duffs and pass meaningful legislation that will stop the influx of illegals. They preach about safety, and then allow millions of undocumented foreigners to enter this country illegally. That makes me wonder why we have a "Homeland Security" agency. They sure aren't doing their job!!! They take away our liberties, and I mean the liberties of LEGAL citizens, and do nothing about the illegals. That makes absolutely no sense.
Reply to this comment
by susanhelit February 6, 2007 9:07 PM PST
Radar - I guess that means my Native American Indian husband can go take your house? After all, he's just retrieving what was stolen.

Racist groups love stuff like this, they figure it makes them right. But their stupidity doesn't change the fact that we do have a problem with illegal immigration; no more than stupid black supremacy groups invalidated MLK and the civil rights movement.
Reply to this comment
by angermngmnt February 6, 2007 10:01 PM PST
titocordero,

I didn't say I'd join the KKK or a White Supremacist organization. There theology is much different then my interpretation of Christian theology. Good point about money. However, when your land is continually given away to massive numbers of immigrants from foreign lands, which you didn't ask for in the first place, then the level of concern should logically go up for a native. In the words of Terry Anderson (www.theterryandersonshow.com), "If you ain't mad, you ain't payin' attention!". Terry is Black man and he has been called a White Supremacist, which shows you how discerning these liberals are who are throwing these "White Supremacist" darts around. There is no practice country. Once the liberal super-do-gooders give it all away there is no reset button to get it back.

Reply to this comment
by bellal-2009 February 6, 2007 10:21 PM PST
I can't believe that the govt. has let illegal immigration push it's citizens to this point of border militias, bigotry, isolationism. They've shoved it down our throats until it seems as though we don't have a country. Our taxes are used for benefits for other countries' citizens then we're made to feel like racist bigots by complaining. The govt. has sold us down the river and sold our country out from under us.
Reply to this comment
by bellal-2009 February 6, 2007 10:24 PM PST
If someone doesn't step up and lead this country not cater to every special interest, PC whim, or media BS and actually LEAD this country we are going to screw around and have a g0dd@mn civil war 20 or 30 years down the road.
Reply to this comment
by titocordero February 6, 2007 10:53 PM PST
AngerMngmnt

Sorry man but I don't understand. I for one am not for or against immigration 'cause it doesn't affect me one way or another. But if you're worried about land being given away let's take a look at NYC where and some of the most expensive real estate in the country, who do you think owns this...Emirs' Sheiks and Kings from wealthy Islamic countries. The very same countries that sponsor terrorism against the US. Now what I do not understand is this land that you say we're giving away. Last time I checked our borders and frontiers have not changed since the Mexican American War Particularly our western frontiers and our federal laws govern all states within these frontiers and Hawaii, Alaska and Puerto Rico included. So if we're losing the country who's winning it. Surely not these poor Mexicans and central American people who I mostly see working construction and agricultural jobs that no one else will do.
Reply to this comment
by angermngmnt February 6, 2007 11:08 PM PST
I personally think the ADL and Southern Poverty Law Center could be considered hate groups. They definitely hate enforcing the immigration laws. That means for me a White Christian Protestant they hate my guts. Just because these groups are known for searching for hate, doesn't mean they are immune from hating others, and that they've cornered the truth on who is hateful and who isn't.

See
http://www.adl.org/PresRele/CvlRt_32/4869_32.htm
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=91
Reply to this comment
by zootallures2 February 7, 2007 12:14 AM PST
Works every time. When you are done with using the illegal immigrants for cheap labor, you can always count on the white supremacists to run them off. Or at the very least, help out the economy and small business with sales of nazi uniforms and flags.
Reply to this comment
by sasi1-2009 February 7, 2007 1:15 AM PST
Civil war in Iraq; civil war in the U.S. Way to go, Bush.
Reply to this comment
by rray52 February 7, 2007 5:38 AM PST
My first impression of this article is %u201Cmountain out of a mole hill%u201D

The are probably more undercover FBI investigating the clan than they are nuts that belong to it.
Reply to this comment
by plowhandle February 7, 2007 6:12 AM PST
Lying, filthy, pedophilic Republishits in power and the nation fills with hate groups - - and you're somehow SURPRISED ??

The years wasted with Republicrap "leadership" has given these cross-eyed Baptists and other Fundamentalist loons PERMISSION to peddle their hate.

The tide has turned. The Democratic Party has resumed true Leadership...and the haters are thusly made aware they should watch themselves carefully.

Republiscum.
Reply to this comment
by exusmcsgt February 7, 2007 8:23 AM PST
Maybe the people who hate are you atheist bigots who don't love anyone but yourselves
Posted by ban-one1 at 07:41 AM : Feb 07, 2007

I am an atheist and tolerate you "believers" and your hatred for any who don't believe as you do better than you all with your supposed "Christian tolerance" tolerate me.

It appears that you've never observed that the Klan uses flaming crosses in their rituals and proclaim that white supremecy is mandated in the Bible.

Hardly the act of atheists.
Reply to this comment
by r-u-kidding February 7, 2007 8:42 AM PST
How do you people blame this on republicans and George Bush? That just shows how ignorant you are. Take a minute and think back to the end of the civil war when the KKK started. It was Lincoln (A REPUBLICAN) who freed the south, not the democrats. George Bush is only one person and has nothing to do with this....get a life.
Reply to this comment
by rafterman1 February 7, 2007 9:18 AM PST
"It was Lincoln (A REPUBLICAN) who freed the south, not the democrats. George Bush is only one person and has nothing to do with this....get a life."

Lincoln being a republican is meaningless. Comparing political parties of today to 150 years ago is pointless as party philosophies change. But the liberal vs conservative battle is constant. Lincoln was liberal-minded in most matters. It was the conservatives who wanted to keep the status quo of slavery. So liberals (whether they be dems or repubs) have more of a right to "claim" Lincoln than do republicans. Of couse, then again, Jesus was a liberal too. What, are you kidding? A long-haired hippee preaching peace, love and forgiveness? Sounds like a liberal to me ;)

The point being made is, the conservatives of today and their pursuit of anti-gay and anti-immigrant legislation have fostered an environment in this country where the racists are coming out of the woodwork. Suddenly, its OK to hate *** or immigrants. And that, my friend, is due to the republicans and their anti-minority agendas.
Reply to this comment
by r-u-kidding February 7, 2007 9:36 AM PST
Listen RafterMan....my point was that hating ILLEGAL imigrants has nothing to do with political party or religion, it has to do with not wanting ILLEGAL immigrants to sneak into our country and abuse our socail systems (i.e. social security and hospitals that can't refuse service).

My point was also that these HATE GROUPS have nothing to do with politics or religion. Certainly any person who commits hate crimes with a burning cross is the definition of a hipocrit. And, while I'm not part of a hate group, I can say with a certain degree of certainty that the KKK does not recruit only republicans. What planet are you from??
Reply to this comment
by rafterman1 February 7, 2007 10:03 AM PST
"can say with a certain degree of certainty that the KKK does not recruit only republicans. What planet are you from??"

No, but they do recruit conservatives. I imagine there aren't too many liberals in the KKK. Nor are there too many liberals who are republicans. Do you thnk many KKK guys voted for Gore or Kerry? I doubt it. So you can do the math= as far as who hate groups' target audiences are.

Reply to this comment
by r-u-kidding February 7, 2007 10:50 AM PST
Whatever RafterMan....quit stereotyping people (Republicans and conservatives). The KKK recruits any white, protestant person that wants to sign up, they don't care if the person is conservative, you're crazy to think that.
Reply to this comment
by legendary240 February 7, 2007 11:14 AM PST
I agree. It's always safe and expedient to run down "whitey". I think we can expect a resurgence in these kinds of groups. I don't think that supremacy is their goal as much as preservance of culture. We all have our own cultural identity and there is room for that. When we see our borders being guarded unsatisfactorally and see illegal aliens being given rights due only to citizens, then what should we expect. When our government fails then it's people will rise and prevail.
Reply to this comment
by rudy654-2009 February 7, 2007 11:14 AM PST
All along this anti-immigration nonsense has been about racism. They claim that they don't oppose legal immigration, but just illegal. However, the minute legislation is proposed to make provision for legal immigration they begin to scream and shout about how this is America and they don't want their kids growing up speaking anything but English. Racism through and through. Xenophobia anybody? It's American as apple pie.
Reply to this comment
by rudy654-2009 February 7, 2007 11:18 AM PST
"I don't think that supremacy is their goal as much as preservance of culture. We all have our own cultural identity and there is room for that."

You obviously haven't seen how these groups propose to preserve their "culture" through violence. Or have you? Have you seen the violent posters they have showing the killings of African-Americans, Hispanics, and oh yeah, liberal Whites? They're there! But that's okay because they just want to preserve their "culture."
Reply to this comment
by legendary240 February 7, 2007 11:20 AM PST
The old Democratic party was and is the choice party of the klan. I live in the south and I know firsthand people who are involved, and were involved when they were young. They are not conservative by any means. The ironic thing is that the groups of people the klan despise are democrats. Politics have nothing to do with this. This whole issue is centered on heritage and the perceived threat of becoming a minority themselves.
Reply to this comment
by legendary240 February 7, 2007 11:26 AM PST
Again, I am from the south. If you want the skinny - my great-grandad was present at the lynching of a "caught red-handed" rapist who was black. There were things back then that weren't tolerated. The klan was there in force. There were plenty of "whiteys" who met the blast of a shotgun or a noose rather than going to trial for the heinous things they did. This all occurred in the 19-teens and 1920's. Bat Masterson was just hanging up his six-guns and coming back east.
Reply to this comment
by rafterman1 February 7, 2007 11:30 AM PST
"Speaking of the KKK, where does senator byrd fit in??"

Hey janem4, got any examples of someone who isn't 1000 years old? Since you know, Byrd is the only one you can seem to come up with in every post.

legendary240, the "old" Democratic party of the South, the Dixiecrats, sure as h3ll are conservative. Again, it's not about party as they change over time. It's about liberals vs conservatives and, as much as you try to deny it, the large majority of people with racist feelings are conservative. Not all conservatives are racists of course, but most racists are conservative and they vote conservative candidates. Part of being liberal is acceptance of people of color and sexual orientation. If you don't accept them, if you have bigotry against them, then you aren't a liberal. Again, how many true liberals are going to be racist? Not many.
Reply to this comment
by r-u-kidding February 7, 2007 11:37 AM PST
RafterMan, let me get this right...you're stereotyping again, but forget about that for a minute, you're saying that liberals are accepting of others....unless that "other" is an unwanted fetus child, then I guess it would be OK to "lynch" them. Seems a bit contradicting don't you think?
Reply to this comment
by legendary240 February 7, 2007 11:37 AM PST
Rafterman - who cares if they are liberal, moderate, conservative, annihilists, calvinists, baptists, presbyterian, vegetarian, hedonists, etc.? WHO CARES? The fact is that they are out there and they do not represent anything but their own self-interest. Self-interest is a cross-cultural, cross-political syndrome. How does finding the right label to stick on them change anything?
Reply to this comment
by legendary240 February 7, 2007 11:51 AM PST
Liberals are not accepting of all others unless those "others" are too young to vote. Why try to ascend a pedestal, you'll only fall off. I am a white, conservative, born-again Christian, middle-class, legal citizen of the USA. But I am courageous enough to tell you that I don't accept everyone. I refuse to be straight-jacketed into a politically-correct position to where I am allowed no other form of thought except that mandated by another. This country was formed by independent thinkers and it will preserved by the very same. Consider yourself tolerant all you want, just why don't you tolerate the intolerant?
Reply to this comment
by rafterman1 February 7, 2007 12:00 PM PST
R-U-Kidding,

No, it isn't the same thing and you know it.

legendary240,

I came into the forum and saw people complaining about how republicans were being blamed for a surge in racists' recruitment. The usual liberal media conspiracy stuff that repubs like to blame for, well, pretty much everything that goes wrong. I pointed out that conservative policies on things like banning gay marriage and anti-immigrant legislation were creating a climate where bigoty can become acceptable and even legislated into our laws. It gives hope to these racists that they still have a voice in America. That's no stereotype. Are liberals the ones pushing to ban gay marriage or to kick out all the illegal immigrants out? No, the conservatives, along with some moderate democrats are doing that. That's what's helping to create the climate. Throw in a good dose of anti-Muslim, terrorist fear (agains, stoked mainly by conservatives), and the racists are more encouraged than ever. Identifying political and social trends among politicians and voters is not stereotyping.
Reply to this comment
by rafterman1 February 7, 2007 12:04 PM PST
"But I am courageous enough to tell you that I don't accept everyone. I refuse to be straight-jacketed into a politically-correct position to where I am allowed no other form of thought except that mandated by another."

And I am courageous to tell everyone that I don't give a cr@p is someone is gay or an immigrant or whatever. It's not my business. You never heard of live and let live? There's nothing "politically correct" about that. H3ll, I don't even care if someone is a racist, again, their business (unless they try and make racist laws or commit crimes, then it's everyone's business). But this is a discussion forum, so we discuss. I'm not trying to force you into anything.
Reply to this comment
by r-u-kidding February 7, 2007 12:12 PM PST
RafterMan, why are you stereotyping conservatives as the ones trying to kick ILLEGAL immigrants out?? George Bush is trying to give them amnesty as we speak so that they can all stay here.
Reply to this comment
by legendary240 February 7, 2007 12:19 PM PST
I didn't mean that you were trying to arrest my thoughts. I meant this POLITICALLY-CORRECT nonsense that is pervading the whole country. You know, the FEELINGS crowd that are like a Hindu who is afraid to walk through grass because they might step on an insect and kill it. Ii watch people try to tap-dance around people feelings everyday. That's why we have feelings. If they hurt you respond to the person hurting them - but I guess that might hurt their feelings too. And we wouldn't want that now would we? Be a nice boy and play nice.
Reply to this comment
by legendary240 February 7, 2007 12:22 PM PST
WHOA! Pull the reins Rafterman. The republicans and conservatives are not BANNING anything. You can't ban what doesn't exist. They are responding to the threat of these agendas because the electorate are demanding it. Why hasn't the same-se+ marriage issue been voted in? Because the people don't want it and a lot of them are democrats.
Reply to this comment
by legendary240 February 7, 2007 12:27 PM PST
I love it. Republicans and conservatives are by your own admission the ony people in this country with sense enough to care.(or fear as you call it)
They care about the border. They care about defending our country. They care about defending the family. They care. Okay, I get it. I guess that the inverse of that is true with democrats and liberals then. You plainly infer that no one would be taking issue with any of this if the republicans and conservatives weren't carrying the flag for it. You are right.
Reply to this comment
by rafterman1 February 7, 2007 12:29 PM PST
"George Bush is trying to give them amnesty as we speak so that they can all stay here."

Yeah, and republicans are fighting him tooth and nail.

Again, if you are a cetain race and given traits based on that race, that is stereotypical. You can't change your race or origin. But political views will put you into one camp or another. You can change your political views over time and you can match your political views to a party or a political philosophy. You have a choice in that matter. And right now, in 2007, people that support things like anti-gay marriage, tough immigration bills and cutting welfare and such will gravitate towards the republican party and are generally conservative in other matters. If they didn't support those things, they would gravitate towards dems and liberals. In this case, people go to the politcal allegiance, the political allegiance doesn't come to them. That is not being stereotypical. While few people join the KKK and a vast majority of conservatives aren't racists, the ones that do join the KKK and are racist, the majority of them are conservatives.

Reply to this comment
by rafterman1 February 7, 2007 12:39 PM PST
"They care about defending our country. They care about defending the family."

How are illegals attacking the country? Unfortuanately, the illegals everyone wants to kick out are the ones doing cr@p jobs, trying to make a living. The bad illegals (i.e., terrorists) won't be stopped one bit. In fact, most terroists will probably be legal, on student visas or something like that.

And exactly how does being against gay people and gay marriage "protect" the family? I hear all the conservatives say that, but no one has yet to prove it. What, is there only a certain number of marriage licenses allowed and if *** take them all up, straight people can't get married? Don't tell my girlfriend, she might make me rush and get married before it's to late because they gay people have arrived. If a gay couple moves in across the street, will all the straight people in the area become sterile and stop having babies?

It's your business to like or not like ***, but if you don't like what they do, then don't look, mind your own business. And it's also not people's business to try and stop what gay people do in their private lives. What if *** came to power and tried to get laws passed to stop straight people from getting married? Wouldn't care for that I'll bet.






Reply to this comment
by r-u-kidding February 7, 2007 12:56 PM PST
RafterMan,
Legendary240 makes a good point, what's wrong with standing up for our country, for our people, and for our rights?

I don't think that you can blindly put people into the republican or democratic camp, because many people don't believe all of the issues that these party's stand for. I'm sure that there are pro-life democrats and that there are pro-choice republicans. That's just one example as there are too many to list.
Reply to this comment
by rafterman1 February 7, 2007 1:10 PM PST
"Legendary240 makes a good point, what's wrong with standing up for our country, for our people, and for our rights?"

Again, as I said to legendary240, how is being against gay people "standing up for your country"? Sounds like some people just want to stick their nose in other people's business, not protect the morals of the country. Also see my below comment about illegal immigrants.
Reply to this comment
by r-u-kidding February 7, 2007 1:39 PM PST
not passing gay marriage laws is standing up for morals, dumb-@ss. Read the bible...men shall not lye with men. Ever heard of Adam and Eve or Mary and Joseph? Don't say conservatives don't stand up for morals, they stand up all the time.
Reply to this comment
by rafterman1 February 7, 2007 1:58 PM PST
"not passing gay marriage laws is standing up for morals, dumb-@ss. Read the bible...men shall not lye with men. Ever heard of Adam and Eve or Mary and Joseph? Don't say conservatives don't stand up for morals, they stand up all the time."

Pretty presumptious of you to think everyone believes in the Bible. Why should a non-Christian or an ahtiest be forced to follow a Christian rule? I thought America was for everyone, not just Christians? You can believe in what you want in YOUR church and in YOUR house, but in OUR government, the laws are for EVERYONE - Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddists and none of the above.
Reply to this comment
by rafterman1 February 7, 2007 2:04 PM PST
By the way, I don't get the "conservative morality" these days. Its alright to hate gay people and legislate against them but not OK to oppose a war with questionable objectives that has killed a lot of innocent people.
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