Spanking Ban Debated

Calif. Lawmaker Floating Bill To Make Corporal Punishment A Misdemeanor

(AP)  California parents could face jail and a fine for spanking their young children under legislation a state lawmaker has promised to introduce next week.

Democratic Assemblywoman Sally Lieber said such a law is needed because spanking victimizes helpless children and breeds violence in society.

"I think it's pretty hard to argue you need to beat a child," Lieber said. "Is it OK to whip a 1-year-old or a 6-month-old or a newborn?"

Lieber said her proposal would make spanking, hitting and slapping a child under 4-years-old a misdemeanor. Adults could face up to a year in jail and a $1,000 fine.

Aides to the assemblywoman said they are still working on a definition for spanking.

Some Republican lawmakers called the idea ridiculous. But Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said he may be receptive to it even though he has concerns about how the ban would be enforced.

The governor said he and his wife, Maria Shriver, did not spank their four children and used alternative methods for discipline. For example, Schwarzenegger said they found it more effective to threaten to take away their children's play time if they didn't do school work.

"They hate that much more than getting spanked," he told reporters Friday in Los Angeles.

California law permits spanking by parents unless the degree of force is excessive or not appropriate for the child's age.

[musicmandave]

Well my family was extremely large. We all got more than an occasional spanking.we were terrorized (but we knew we couldn't do certain things).i am a firm believer that that we have problems with our children of today already due to the fact that our government sticks thier nose in too much. the lawwmakers of this country have enough on thier plate now.Spanking a child is a firm way of showing that you care enough to teach them right from wrong and thier feelings are hrt more than their butts.SO MY MESAGE IS CLEAR BUTT OUT OF PEOPLES PERSONAL LIVES AND STICK TO THE POLITICS AT HAND.

[hutch7278]

Withhold not correction from the child,foolishness is bound in the heart of a child,but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him!If ye are not chastined then are ye ***!
These are from the holy bible and I think if God created our children then he knows best how to raise them.
If this goes through then california will sink straight into hell!

[concernedp2]

I have a suggestion. Why don't everyone with children drop them off at the Assemblywoman's home for the week and see how she deals with them.
Besides the discussion between parents about spanking, where does she think the money will come from for the jails when the working class won't be paying taxes because they will be in jail.
I really am glad we have dreamers in this country but this woman is living in a fantasy world.

[ecuadoriana]

"I would really like to hear Sally Lieber try to justify how a child being taken away from its parent could possibly be less harmful than a spanking? Care to respond Ms. Lieber? Posted by cj_athena at 04:41 AM : Jan 23, 2007"

Unfortunately you will never hear a response from Ms. Lieber. I commented in an earlier post- "Like those who have never set foot in a classroom who think they can tell teachers how to teach, people who make up 'new improved' rules on how to raise children are either wealthy enough to hire nannies & care takers, or have never had childrem themselves."

Some people just sit around proposing "new rules" only because they can- not because they fully comprehend an issue, but simply because they were the kid who always had to get their way. They were the kid who always had to make up new rules that would guarantee themselves a better shot at winning (The kid who always insisted on being the cop when playing "Cops & Robbers"). Now they are the adult "Micro-managers", "Petty Tyrant" bosses, the presidents of home owners assoc. (so they can make sure everyone in the neighbourhood has the "correct" colour trash bin!), the "Policy Makers".

These were the kids who never received any real discipline growing up, they always got their way, & every thing was handed to them. They came from privledge & entitlement. Now they feel they are qualified to make up rules to guarantee they will always win.

Not this time.

[allinessa]

I am 22 years old. When i was growing up, my and all my siblings were spanked. i only remember those spankings because i was a bit older. I have 2 children of my own.I have been very well taught by the spankings i got growing up. If you cant discipline children at a young age, then you are just defeating the whole purpose by allowing parents to spank after that age. If all parents could set an example at an earlier age in life, then maybe there wouldnt be so much abuse or rebellious teens. I dont know about many other 4 year olds, since my 4 year old is my oldest so this is my first time of going through this, but my friend has a child just a couple months younger than my oldest, and they dont listen to anything you say. you can put them in their room, put them in the corner, take away play time, and any other method that doesnt require physically disciplining them, and it doesnt do anything. They stare at you like you are stupid. And even my 4 year old, spanking most times doesnt work. So what i say to you is, all of these people who are making a big fuss about the way we handle our children, unless you want to raise everyone else's children whose parents have spanked them, i would suggest you dont criticize the way we handle it. we know our children best!!!!!

[cj_athena]

Not only do I feel that this is an infingement of the rights of parents, but I also feel that placing a parent in prison for up to a year would be more harmful to the child than a spanking. Has Sally Leiber thought about the consequences of taking a child away from its parent at such an impressionable age? At an early age is the time when child needs to be with its parents to form trust and bonds. How will that happen if the parent(s) in jail? What about the fact that social services are already overwhelmed with cases of children who are truly in abusive situations and they have no where to place these children? Ms. Leiber's intentions may be to protect the child, but this law would in no way protect the child, if anything this law could be more detrimental to the growth and development of the child. Rather than putting money into creating laws that infringe upon the rights of others, why not go to the source and put money into education for new parents. By educating new parents on alternitive ways to dicipline children you are giving them alternatives and empowering them to make better choices on their own. ? I would really like to hear Sally Lieber try to justify how a child being taken away from its parent could possibly be less harmful than a spanking? Care to respond Ms. Lieber?

[cj_athena]

Not only do I feel that this is an infingement of the rights of parents, but I also feel that placing a parent in prison for up to a year would be more harmful to the child than a spanking. Has Sally Leiber thought about the consequences of taking a child away from its parent at such an impressionable age? At an early age is the time when child needs to be with its parents to form trust and bonds. How will that happen if the parent(s) in jail? What about the fact that social services are already overwhelmed with cases of children who are truly in abusive situations and they have no where to place these children? Ms. Leiber's intentions may be to protect the child, but this law would in no way protect the child, if anything this law could be more detrimental to the growth and development of the child. Rather than putting money into creating laws that infringe upon the rights of others, why not go to the source and put money into education for new parents. By educating new parents on alternitive ways to dicipline children you are giving them alternatives and empowering them to make better choices on their own. ? I would really like to hear Sally Lieber try to justify how a child being taken away from its parent could possibly be less harmful than a spanking? Care to respond Ms. Lieber?

[babiektcher]

Where does it stop? Or better yet where does it begin? I had to register to post a comment on this one. I am a 30 yr old mother with a 4 and 2 year old,well educated and work as a registered nurse. I think people should mind their own business, we are all so worried what everybody else is doing in this country. I am so tired of the stares in public places if my children are misbehaving, and then stares if I discipline them. I got spanked as a child, and am a better person for it. Lets let lawmakers be worried about topics that need their input, Iraq, healthcare, budgets, and immigration. STAY OUT OF MY HOME!!!!!

[binkyderson]

I truly oppose the No Spanking Bill. I am a stay at home Mother and see were there is a HUGE gap between consequences of bad behavior and abuse. Punishment by a loving, warm and tender Mother or Father is the FOUNDATION that rears respectable young adults.
Some parents spank and some parents don%u2019t, and that%u2019s their right. Don't let this bill pass and wipe out our right to CHOSE as PARENTS to discipline our children in the way WE see fit.

You hitters out there, your own children probably won't do that to your grandchildren.
Posted by MamaBird62 at 12:11 PM : Jan 20, 2007
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MamaBird.
Then my own children can watch them their own children if they will not spank them when its necessary. If they do not mind unruly children than its on them not me. I raised mine to understand the consequences of their choices. And the consequences of sparing the rod will be a child who will have a rude awakening when they try breaking the rules of the worlds system. I wouldn't want my child to have to go through that realization without my showing them they'll pay the price. But MamaBird you are correct the next generation may never spank their children. But if they are wise they will when its needed for their child's sake. The worlds smack will be a harder lesson to learn than the firm but loving spanking from caring parents. I always told my daughter to not resent me for my discipline but to learn well from it because the world will not be as easy on her as we were. She found out the hard way when she was in her 20's that the law was harder onher than we ever could be. I am laughing hehehe because I was right and now at 25 she will admit it as well. And I am sure she will be saying the same to her own little ones as I warned her. So I did my good work and have a daughter who respects authority now to show for it. Than The Good Lord
Ladybugplus

[ecuadoriana]

You all know, the irony about this hasn't escaped me. Our rich, won't listen to reason, spoiled brat-based government is suggesting that spanking should be against the law because it could harm a child's psyche, but how many more soldiers are being sent to give iraq a spanking it'll never forget?

You hitters out there, your own children probably won't do that to your grandchildren.
Posted by MamaBird62 at 12:11 PM : Jan 20, 2007
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MamaBird.
Then my own children can watch them theirselves.

[monielove109]

I dont think that its right for someone to tell us how to raise our kids, but there is adifferance in beating a child and spanking a child,you see if we let the goverment tell us how to raise our kids then when they get into legal trouble they should not complain about their money going to support the jail houses and the prisons,I dont think spanking a child will do nothing but show that there are things were as parents are not going to take,but thats only after we have tried everything else.There is not a parent class that will truely teach us how to raise kids, there is not a book that shows up step by step, we are parents have to learn from mistakes that we make, in raising them.I spanked my kids and my kids are just fine.so i feel that the goverment need to find something else to get in the middle of instead of personal affairs.Like they may need to work on getting the President out of the sit,and replace him with someone that can do some damage control

[moorej111]

If you will look at the school system, since corporal punishment has been removed teachers have no control. Therefore unruley, disrepectful children. I have 2 sets of children, 12 years part. One set raised with corporal punishment and one without. The 2 without are the more disrespectful. If you make with a law, you will be allowing children to hold the punishement over parents head and you are taking authority away from parents. I don't think there is any one clear answer. Yes, there is parents that carry spanking to far as there is parents who do not uses this tool but need to. Thank You.

[ecuadoriana]

So true, darnja!! "And when toddlers test boundaries you better give them a clear message as to who is in charge or they will be in the stores throwing fits..."- and worse!

I always said to my daughter: "...because I'm the Boss, & I said so, that's why...!" My friends said to me: "Oh that's so harsh. You're her mom, not her boss." I reminded them that giving clear instructions (clean your room), deadlines (before dinner), & consequences (can't go out with your friends) is good pracise for the future (file these reports, by 5:00, you're fired). Parents who set rules, boundaries & consequences are just like college professors who fail a students for failing exams or the bosses who fire employees for losing accounts & being chronically late (that's why parents spend 18 yrs harping on their kids to do their homework, do their chores & get up in time for school!).

So yes, parents need to send a clear message as to who is "in charge" as practise & preparation for their child's future, because some day a temper tantrum is NOT going to get the spoiled, snot nosed 20 yr old a job & he will be in for a shock in life much bigger than a healthy spanking!

And just remember- if you think dealing w/your spoiled, out of control kid is no fun now, how do you think you'll like it when he's 40 & living in your basement because he can't hold down a job, keep an apartment, or find someone to marry him & take him off your hands?!

[giloc]

Spanking children is where more parents need to proceed with their child rearing. To many have gotten away from corporal punishment. Spanking has a place in raising all children. When a child does something that could or does cause them immediate physical harm or someone else harm they should be spanked immediately upon the parent or caregiver's becoming aware of the incident. Not doing your homework is not something that should result in a spanking. Yeah, do take away play time or favorite toys or activities. There are many individuals in our jails because of lack of spanking or because a parent or caregiver beat them for incidents that were so mundane that a spanking wasn't justified and obviously, beating a child is never justified in child rearing. Those who define spanking as a beating are nuts, and obviously explains why our country is where it is.
Giloc

[darnja-2009]

Ban spanking? Have you seen the behavior of children??? It should be the choice of parents. In my state the rule is that you can spank as long as you don't cause injury (ie. bruises, lon lasting marks, etc.) If you are causing these injuries you shouldn't be spanking. I spanked. After age 5, I didn't need to spank. I never spanked out of anger. My children are now teenagers. They don't remember being spanked, though I assure them that I did. Both are great kids, students, athletes, neither use drugs or alcohol, have ***, and neither have ever been in a physical fight. They are respectful young adults. I wouldn't change a thing. Babies and young toddlers. And when toddlers test boundaries you better give them a clear message as to who is in charge or they will be in the stores throwing fits (my children never threw fits). You can't compare dicipline of children to domestic violence. I provide treatment for domestic violence offenders and this is comparing apples and oranges. Domestic violence is about power and control, dicipline is the responsibility of the parent and parents are suppose to be in control in order to effectively parent. But I have seen many parents effectivly use spanking in a non-abusive manner.
My grandma was a wonderful woman, she spanked. She never spanked me.... but I always knew that she would!!!!
Politician need to quit trying to control everything that everyone does. Are they abusing power?

[rube3162]

You think we have problem now with youth crime. Watch this generation purpose no more jails. Consequences for bad behavior must be taught while young even if it involve a good pop on the butt. Anyone support this spanking bill needs to a shot of reality.

[ecuadoriana]

Right on, slclark0029!!! And some of your friends probably also use that lame butt excuse for their child's out of control behaviour: "My child can't help be that way, the doctor says he has ADHD & ODD & is prescribing medication for it..."

ODD is what I consider the most assinine diagnosis: Oppositional Defiant Disorder. That's that kid who, when the parent tells him to "Knock it off & go clean your room", screams back: "NO! And YOU CAN'T MAKE ME!" And the parent throws his/her hands up inthe air & says "I just can't control him any more." And the kid stomps off to go play video games & the parent calls the doctor.

Very weird world when you are no longer allowed to swat your kid's backside, but you can dose him up on mind altering drugs to control his behaviour!

Weren't we taught to "Just say 'No'" to drugs?!

[slclark0029]

I am a mother of 3 children, 9, 12, & 13. They all have been raised with spankings as a form of punishment, depending on the situation.
I, as a result, have very well behaved children.
How do I know that?
Because I have friends that have children, and instead of a spanking to the behind when needed, they use other forms of punishment. Such as "positive reinforcement", or simply "redirecting the childs attention to something positive" when the child has done wrong.
When our children are together, the difference is extremely clear.
Their children are horribly mouthy to their mother, disrespectful to everyone around them, demanding, trouble making, unfriendly, and unlikeable children.
They are constantly in trouble at school, and I'm sure that will lead to trouble with the law as well.
And when my friends say to me, "I cant believe how good and polite your kids are!", or, "OMG! I have had it up to here with my kids, I dont know what to do with them anymore!"....
That right there, tells me, one more time...that I have done something right with my children.
And in this day and age, a spanking to the behind, is nothing, compared to the types of punishments they will recieve as adults when they break the rules.
I believe children MUST be taught right from wrong, starting as young as possible.
So, as a parent, you use what works best for you and your child, even if it means a swat to the behind when they have done wrong.