Slavery Remarks Spark Outrage

Black And Jewish Leaders Criticize Va. Lawmaker's Comments In Slavery Apology Debate

(AP)  A Virginia state legislator is sparking outrage over remarks made arguing against a proposed apology by the state to the descendants of slaves.

Republican delegate Frank D. Hargrove, in comments published Tuesday in The Daily Progress of Charlottesville, Va., said slavery ended nearly 140 years ago with the Civil War and added: "I personally think that our black citizens should get over it."

The newspaper also quoted the 79-year-old lawmaker as saying: "Are we going to force the Jews to apologize for killing Christ?"

Responding to his critics Tuesday, Hargrove, who is 79, told a delegate whose Jewish ancestors immigrated from Nazi-occupied Poland that the delegate's skin is "a little too thin."

Black House of Delegates members swiftly denounced the comments Hargrove made on the holiday commemorating the life and mission of civil rights leader Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.

"When somebody tells me I should just get over slavery, I can only express my emotion by projecting that I am appalled, absolutely appalled," said Delegate Dwight C. Jones, head of the Legislative Black Caucus.

Delegate David L. Englin, a Democrat, seated next to Hargrove, spoke passionately about his grandparents leaving Poland "where they were driven from their homes by people who believed that as Jews, we killed Christ."

As he held up a wallet-sized photo of his 7-year-old son, Caleb, Englin struggled to keep his composure as he pondered the possibility that his child might have to cope with anti-Semitic comments.

When Englin sat, Hargrove reached over and softly patted Englin on the arm. Then, Hargrove rose to speak and, looking down at his seatmate, said, "I didn't even know you were Jewish, I had no idea of what your religion, (and) I don't care what your religion is. I don't care."

"I think your skin was a little too thin," he said as Republicans and Democrats gasped and groaned in disbelief.

Such comments by any elected official only add to the anti-Jewish animosity, said David Friedman, director of the Washington, D.C., regional office of the Jewish Anti-Defamation League.

"What he has done is inject his own personal bigotry into a very difficult and heated discussion and in no way, by injecting that, does he do anything to illuminate the debate," Friedman said. "He raised the need for an apology in a manner that I'm sure he never intended."

The controversy hits nerves already sore in Virginia, only a few months after another incident involving a racially-charged comment by an elected official.

At an August campaign rally before a mostly white crowd, then-Senator George Allen pointed into the crowd to a Virginia-born man of Indian descent working as a volunteer for his Democratic opponent and referred to him as a "macaca," a racial slur in some cultures. What had been a comfortable lead held by the GOP incumbent evaporated as the remarks became a campaign issue, and Allen lost to Democrat Jim Webb, by a margin of about 9,000 votes.

[teeus]

Like I stated in previous post, sometimes you can become a little to pompous and arrogant to the point that you totally misunderstand what others are trying to convey, in which you are too blinded by your own grandiose thinking or self-aggrandizement/ego that it clouds or renders you too dumbfounded and feebleminded to properly analyze and interpret the environment, or in this case historical facts.


Posted by kailumego1 at 06:20 PM : Jan 18, 2007

Oooooookaaaaaaaaayyyyyy...

[kailumego1]

You are right the European slave trade of Africans was the most dehumanizing, perverted, demented, etc, etc, etc, but, however, blacks must not continue the victimization by continuously allowing themselves to be a victim of racism. This society isn't going to recompense for the atrocities of slavery, as racism will always be a permanent feature among a lot of Americans [whites].

The major concern blacks need to address now is the longstanding psychological effects of slavery, which has supported the %u201Cideology of oppression%u201D. And, as those who fought before, knew, in order to confront this evil you have to be proactive and not passive-aggressive.

Most blacks now are passive-aggressive they only come out to protest when something directly affects them, and then retreat back into their homes. You can%u2019t afford to lay dormant, furthermore, there are more serious considerations confronting blacks besides malingering on racism, which will never cease, for example the social degradation that plagues black communities.

It puzzles me that if you are proud of being an African American, how can you sit idle and not be infuriated over black on black crime, inadequate public school system in the inner cities, drug crime lords terrorizing neighborhoods, and the prodigious level of degeneracy.
I understand, comprehend, etc, etc, that employment factors into this equation, but, however, this is true for other ethnicities.

[kailumego1]

A huge problem lies with the failing public school system, which to be perfectly honest, I fault the state, school board, and parents. If these problems had occurred in white suburbia, believe this, you would have hordes of parents vehemently protesting, instead black parents reside to complacency, and that shouldn%u2019t happen.

Likewise, the flagrant criminal behavior, if this had occurred in white suburban neighborhoods, believe me, they would be pounding the halls of justice, but why not blacks. Just recently, in New Orleans, a predominately black city, hordes of whites took to the streets in protest against the gratuitous violence; however, there wasn%u2019t a black in sight.

And I could go on and on, if you want change, you have to fight for it, demand it, whites demand the liberties afforded them according to the Constitution, so why don%u2019t blacks. Those leaders and the black populous before them demanded it so why not now?

You can continue to harp on how terrible slavery, Jim Crow, the Black Codes, discrimination, etc, etc, is [was] or get off you%u2019re a$$ and do something about it.

Personally, I%u2019m tired, but for different reasons, of blacks whining about racism, while committing grotesque acts of degradation on each other, and black leaders, blacks themselves, make excuses for this type of behavior, when they should be coalescing to thwart this problem.

[wingsactv]

It's simple -- slavery in America happened. There has never been slavery in the recorded history of the world (just check)that comes close to what Blacks endured in America. Jews in Egypt left with the spoils so don't compare it to that. Indentured servants in Europe can't be compared. Slavery in this country was mean-spirited and its offspring racism is just as mean-spirited, evil and hard-hearted. Whether you like it or not, slavery happened and it happened to my people. If folks wish to stay blind to the truth, help youself, but don't get in my presence because I will talk to you about it.

[elysium3-2009]

It would be better if the media and politicians directed their well honed outrage at those that still perpetrate slavery right now. Otherwise this is what it is, pure humbug and manufactured outrage. Getting really tired of this BS. Frank Hargrove is absolutely correct.

[mahabba]

Why is anyone surprise:

1. VA is below the Mason-Dixon, and beginning point to represent the "Old South."

2. That's what they with the racist mentality do, it's in their nature, socialization to treat blacks like dirt, dogs or whatever than give the "Mr. Charlie" slap on the back like "just be a good Negro" and we won't kill you, while at the same time attend Church and claim Christ (who wasn't white). As a matter of fact Christianity justified slavery (not Jesus' teaching) just Europeans putting a Caucasian to their rhetoric and keeping negroes in line by playing on their spirituality and justifying their actions in the name of God.

3. Anyone who drives on 95, 395 in the DC metro area and who is black knows what the area is like.

4. Politicians never get over a lost campaign, a country usually plots years to avenge a loss in battle or war, yet 400 years of slavery, torture, rape, genocide and kidnapping at the hands of white people (primarily) is supposed to be "gotten over" by blacks when the descendants of these atrocities now suffer from socialized and institutionalized racism and discrimination--this man's words demonstrate that even in 2007 it's not suttle. But why get upset, they are who they are and apparently are proud of it, while the international community watches American politicians espouse rhetoric of freedom and equality but implement policies and legislation that keeps their foot on non-whites, and still on black people's neck.

[kailumego1]

Clerical error, I meant equality, not inequality

[kailumego1]

Soulpower200, well said, and their was a black officer who was court marshaled, because he spoke out against the unfair, or lack of wages black soldiers were[n%u2019t] receiving. However, just like those pioneers of the Civil Rights Movement, they were proactive in the fight for equality, as it is up to blacks to continue the struggle for equally and not fall behind in self-degradation or foolish folly. Some whites are going to always defend their %u201Cprivilege status%u201D and lament over blacks receiving additional assistance, because of the wrongs their ancestors inflicted. So, depending upon whites to rectify or %u201Cmake right%u201D past injustices is like beating a %u201Cdead horse%u201D, those who vehemently oppose will never capitulate to the idea of giving blacks additional assistance, it is a matter of sharing wealth and power, in which they will never willing succumb. If a black man wants justice and inequality he%u2019ll have to fight for it, just like those before him.

[kailumego1]

Like I stated in previous post, sometimes you can become a little to pompous and arrogant to the point that you totally misunderstand what others are trying to convey, in which you are too blinded by your own grandiose thinking or self-aggrandizement/ego that it clouds or renders you too dumbfounded and feebleminded to properly analyze and interpret the environment, or in this case historical facts.

[kailumego1]

In reality, when you continuously succumb to this type of baboonery it makes you no better than those whom you lash out at %u201Cwhites%u201D. Agnim what%u2019s your level of education, you appear to have a diverse vocabulary, however, too many times, your histrionics and lack of pertinent facts, other than your own subjective viewpoint, demonstrates your inability not ability, to apply critical thinking, come up with a well thought out thesis, objectively analyze, adequately synthesize, and use sound judgment, which are basis for %u201Chigher ordered cognitive processes%u201D. Sometimes you are right on the money, while at other times, you allow your emotions to overshadow logical reasoning. Moreover, you have a lot of good ideas at times, but your visceral comprehension is often clouded by your own melancholy or fatalism. Nonetheless, you continuously box yourself into a corner, of which you allow your emotions to supersede common sense and shrewdness. And, intelligence isn%u2019t measured by having something to say, just because you can, but the ability to think, reason, and make an argument based on objectivity, not dramatics.

[kailumego1]

A historical fact, slavery is not the white man%u2019s disease of degradation, slavery has been around for centuries, Africans, Chinese, Romans, Greeks, Arabs, Europeans, Aztecs, Mayans, etc, etc, etc, had slaves. When particular groups or dynasties conquered other civilizations, tribes, groups, etc, it was not uncommon for the conqueror to take slaves, along with the %u201Cloot and booty%u201D.

And warring factions [tribes] often dehumanized those which they took as slaves, Africans did it to other Africans, of which slavery has not been totally outlawed, research Mauritania, the Chinese, the Greeks, the Romans, Arabs were the first ones to embark upon the %u201CAfrican slave trade%u201D, Europeans, etc, etc, etc, the Aztecs had a ritual where they sacrificed their slaves on the altar.

The Aztecs performed a blood ritual where the Chief would gouge out the heart of his captives as a sacrifice to the %u201CGods%u201D. It has been so documented that African tribal wars were bloody and gory, in which the conqueror or winner would eat the flesh and viscera of the conquered, it had been noted this would bring him %u201Cstrength%u201D.

[kailumego1]

Practices such as these were universal, particularly during Paleolithic times, by warring factions and in times of starvation.

As for blaming the victim, you obviously don%u2019t understand the dynamics of slavery, which can be both physically and psychologically. Some 400 years ago blacks experienced the physical subjugation of slavery now it is psychological, in which blacks, themselves, have allowed the brainwashing and propaganda of the oppressor to become a prominent theme in their lives, the bastardization, fraternalistic deprivation, and psychological debasement. And it%u2019s because of individuals, such as you, who want to continuously hide behind racism, which does exist, as oppose of taking a stance and insisting those blacks demand equality. Continue the struggle, which W.E.D. Du Bois, Martin Luther King, Merger Evers, Fannie Lou Hamer, Rosa Parks, Marcus Garvey, Malcolm X, etc, as oppose to succumbing to victimization, of which when you think like a victim you become a victim. Think like a survivor!!! %u201CGREAT MINDS TALK ABOUT IDEAS, AVERAGE MINDS TALKS ABOUT EVENTS, AND SMALL MINDS TALK ABOUT PEOPLE. DON%u2019T BE A SMALL MIND.

[soulpower200]

Racists will be racists.

[soulpower200]

While it is true that there were Union officers who were slave owners while there were Confederate officers who did not, a more important issue is the political disenfranchisement and treatment of Black Officers within the Union army, specifically the treatment that the Black officers of the Louisiana Native Guard recieved under the command of Nathanial P. Banks. Banks was prejudiced against Black officers and as a result a number resigned en masse. Banks enforced curfew and the imprisonment of Black people who did not serve under his command and on this basis a precedent was made for the disproportionament rate of imprisonment of Black men, directly tied to the practice of the Union army. Former Black Louisiana native Guard officers such as Pinchback later became legislators and if it was not for the enforcement of the Black Codes and other legislation of white, racist State and Federal legislators Black would have retained full citizenship rights guaranteed under the 14th and 15th Amendments. So, while white people today are fed up with Black people "whining" over slavery, at the same time Black people are fed up with white people "whining" about not only their economic progress under a system of forced labor but the collective white denial of discriminative practices such as Black Codes, Jim Crow and systematic political and economic APARTHEID.

[teeus]

"The thing is; KARMIC DEBT WILL BE PAID!"

Hmmmm. Karmic Debt. Interesting concept. Is there any Karmic debt to be paid for your vitriolic diatribes against gay people last week, Angim?

Just wondering.

[agnim]

"Oh yeah! Are they going to ask for apologies from all the African Countries that participated as well?

Theres a reason why its called the slave "trade"!
Posted by lilvinnyb at 02:06 PM : Jan 18, 2007"

First of all, any evil being can MIS-NAME and activity to suit his beastly behavior and diabolical ends.

Hence the word 'slave trade' (a misnomer), for humans CAN NEVER in truth be 'traded' as a legitimate act.

Second, the kidnapping of Africans across the Atlantic and robbing the people of their lives, freedom, futures, etc HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR AFRICAN COUNTRIES!

None of your 'African countries' created the white mans' slavery!
None of your African countries owned the ships and plantations in the America where the African people were held in slavery!

THE EVIL OF SLAVERY IS OF THE WHITE MAN'S CREATION AND PERPETUATION!

THE INVADED, SUBJUGATED AND COLONIZED AFRICANS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WHITE MAN'S SLAVERY AND ITS LEGACY, except to be victimized by it!

[agnim]

"The real shame, ...... because it certainly isn%u2019t all, continue to live up to this %u201Cself-fulfilling prophecy %u201C, and become self-defeating, demoralizing, continue the legacy of post-slavery bastardization, and develop an impoverish collective consciousness.

Posted by kailumego1 at 01:38 PM : Jan 18, 2007"
That's patented rubbish!

The depressed state of the US 'minorities' is due to the generations of oppressive ill will of the American white supremacists 'majority', all the way down TO PRESENT TIME and circumstances!

To seek to blame the 'victimized' for what is clearly the generations of evils of the white supremacist victimizers is ignorant, vile and virtueless.

Evil can reign long enough to stifle the good. That has been the case in America for generations now. Time for a change of the American character to a more virtuous one, which will not entertain moronic mindset like the one you are presenting!

[lilvinnyb]

Withough slavery, I probably would not be in this country...no need to apologize...I love it here. Oh yeah! Are they going to ask for apologies from all the African Countries that participated as well? Theres a reason why its called the slave "trade"!

[kailumego1]

The real shame, for all the centuries of bickering back and forth over issues of inequality, insidious comments dehumanizing and deprecating blacks, referencing them as degenerates, criminals, indolent, unproductive, etc, etc, etc, that many blacks, because it certainly isn%u2019t all, continue to live up to this %u201Cself-fulfilling prophecy %u201C, and become self-defeating, demoralizing, continue the legacy of post-slavery bastardization, and develop an impoverish collective consciousness.

Throughout the period of slavery many blacks tried aimlessly to convince whites they were productive able-bodied citizens and if given the chance they could also be constructive members of society. Individuals like Frederick Douglass, Booker T Washington, George Washington Carver, Marcus Garvey, Crispus Attucks, W.E.D. Du Bois, Ida Wells, Mary Bethune, etc, etc, etc. became educated productive members of society.

[kailumego1]

During these periods, with much opposition from whites, blacks became skilled artisans, metallurgists, carpenters, machinist, blacksmiths, etc, etc, etc, they also became apprentices and would later become famed inventors, fought in both the Revolutionary and Civil Wars [regiments, 54th, 3rd, 8th, approximately 200,000 enlisted including Fredrick Douglass two sons]. Often in segregated quarters, blacks fought with identical determination and patriotism as whites, in earlier wars, and WWI and WWII, of which the movie %u201Cthe Tuskegee Airman%u201D, showed volumes of their heroism.

Although racism still breeds its vile despicableness blacks no longer struggle to convince white America of their self-worth, patriotism, viability, creativity, productiveness, skillfulness, etc, etc, instead some blacks have succumbed to that, of which white America had labeled, bastardized and humiliated, a worthless, indolent, savage heathen.

There are no more Moses to lead those stuck in their own self-degradation/humiliation out of bondage, all of this has pasted, so, I say it%u2019s a real shame that many have lost the fight and allowed themselves to be brainwashed by an impoverished system. A system that wants nothing more than to see them become engulfed in excrementation of their own social/psychological decay.