Church Sex Abuse Victims Can Sue Vatican

U.S. Judge Allows Sex Abuse Lawsuit Against Vatican To Go Forward

(AP)  Sex abuse victims can pursue damages from the Vatican in a lawsuit alleging top church officials failed to report known or suspected cases of child abuse, a federal judge ruled Thursday.

The ruling by U.S. District Judge John G. Heyburn II allows three men to pursue negligence claims against the Vatican over allegations of sexual abuse by priests in the Archdiocese of Louisville.

The case is the first sexual abuse lawsuit to name the Vatican as sole defendant.

The men alleged that the Vatican knew or suspected some of its priests or bishops were child molesters, but failed to warn the public or local authorities about them because of a policy prohibiting it.

The lawsuit claims the Vatican was negligent for failing to notify law enforcement officials or the public.

The lawsuit seeks unspecified damages.

Heyburn had previously dismissed parts of the lawsuit that sought damages for sex abuse allegations outside the United States.

William McMurry, the Louisville-based attorney for the three men, said the ruling opens the way to take depositions of Vatican officials and to get copies of church records and documents.

"It's historic," McMurry said. "Our whole purpose is to hold the Vatican accountable."

McMurry is seeking to have the suit certified as a class-action case, alleging that "several thousand" victims exist across the United States. McMurry represented 243 sex abuse victims that settled with the Archdiocese of Louisville in 2003 for $25.3 million.

One of the three plaintiffs suing the Vatican is Michael Turner of Louisville, who also filed the first lawsuit against the Archdiocese of Louisville. Turner alleged he was molested by the Rev. Louis E. Miller in the 1970s while attending St. Aloysius Church in Pewee Valley.

Miller was removed from the priesthood last year by the late Pope John Paul II after pleading guilty in 2003 to sexually abusing children in Jefferson and Oldham counties. He is serving a 13-year prison sentence.

The other two plaintiffs, James H. O'Bryan and Donald E. Poppe, have not settled with any diocese, McMurry has said. Both live in California and allege that they were abused by priests while growing up in Louisville.

O'Bryan contends he was abused by a "Father Lawrence" at St. Cecilia Church in western Louisville in 1928. An archdiocesan spokeswoman has said a Rev. Lawrence Kuntz worked at St. Cecelia from 1928 to 1935 and died in 1952.

Poppe alleges he was molested by the Rev. Arthur Wood, who died in 1983 and was named as an abuser by 39 plaintiffs who settled with the archdiocese.

[albanyphotos]

In New York State The Duane Markey Bill will allow 1 year statute of of limitations window to allow Catholic Children and others to get the SOcial Justice which Bishop Howard Hubbard talks about but doesn't see for the children they raped and abused in the Albany Roman Catholic Diocese and Schools. It amazes me that that they the Albany Catholics need the long arm of the law to force them to do the right thing when the HIGH BAR SHOULD BE CHRIST. Under Bishop Howard Hubbards leadership the Albany Roman Catholic Diocese and Schools are closing left and right. SAD but when you stray from CHRIST in ABUSING CHILDREN and refuse to take responsibility for raping children GOD has a way of dealing with you. HUBBARD hasn't learned his lesson yet but hopefully the Duane Markey Bill will pass and will bring some justice to this sad Situation in Albany NY and bring people to the CHRIST.

[albanyphotos]

The Bishop as in the Albany Bishop Howard Hubbard
does not provide you with any report on your case. They just want you to go away. Forgiveness yes. Social Justice is what needs to happen here.
Children were raped and abused and many of these bums are back in the pulpit because of Corupt Albany Judges and attorney's. One Troy NY Judge let a pervert priest go was caught red handed!!!
You Have a Albany County district attorney who goes soft on women raping young boys with slaps on the wrist. Christian Brothers Academy is a prime example of this with Sandra Beth Geisel raping a boy, CBA is a big supporter of Bishop Howard Hubbard who knowingly moved around priests who raping children to do more raping of children. The standards have dropped tremendously
and ethics character and integrity just doesn't seem to exist anymore arround hear!!!!

[susanhelit]

Why would supporters of the church be talking about how the church is going to avoid paying for what they did? It sounds like a thing that someone who hates the church, thinks they are unethical, would do - a 'win vs. lose' point of view, rather than any type of ethical point of view. What's up with that? Maybe we're misreading who is a supporter and not of the Vatican...

[susanhelit]

Wheeee! I'm a Baptist!

When you can't attack the argument, people tend to attack the messenger (although, I don't know what's supposed to be so good or bad about being a Baptist). Nice try though. I'm sitting here a confirmed (as in confirmation) Catholic, from a family of Catholics.

But still - The truth is always powerful and worth fighting for - against however long established and powerful an organization.

Once, the church believed that - and conquered Rome with their truth. If they now hide from the truth....

[agnim]

"Agnim, somebody must have really hurt you bad, or someone that you love.

Posted by Hermit22 at 01:39 AM : Jan 12, 2007"
LOL
Nope!
No hurt here.
I'm just alert enough to know that we should not be savaging those who are most deserving of our protection; the young, the old, the weak, etc.

And what makes it galling is that these devilish christian sodomizing hypocrites actually go out of their way to suck in their 'victims' by PRETENDING to be saviors, or claim to be leading the 'victims' to some imaginary Jesus who would save them!

[plowhandle]

I get a kick out of reading 'exusmcsgt' and susanhelit's quasi- and semi-legal opinions, as well as their whacko fundamentalist "christian" (with a small 'c') mores...they are so transparently Baptist and cross-eyed it's funny.

The US Courts hold NO sway at all over the Vatican, nor can they "seize" property here. Sorry for your Storm Troops, Susan, but you'll have to use them on the rogue Anglican Queers.

As far as the stupid and uninformed remarks about "no other religion has pedophiles," all I can say is - read your papers from the FRONT and go towards the Sports pages in the back...not the other way 'round. You might remember REAL news that way.

[susanhelit]

The truth is not bashing, and is always powerful and worth fighting for - even against however long established and powerful an organization.

Once, the church believed that - and conquered Rome with their truth. If they now hide from the truth....

[alvinmoop]

Sorry, SusanHelit, but nope. Property belonging to a sovereign country can't be seized by the courts except under very special conditions under the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act. The bar has been set very high for those special conditions: The Lockerbie families are still trying to get at Libyan assets without any luck, and the Embassy Teheran hostages have had the same lack of success getting at Iranian assets. The courts have made huge awards in both cases, but the plaintiffs have yet to see a dime. (Some compensation was paid by the Libyans, but only with their consent as part of a diplomatic agreement.)

Suits against individual dioceses are a different story, because those assets are held in the name of the US bishop in charge. Vatican assets are another thing entirely.

As for "sending a good message", Catholic bashing has been around for centuries, and the Church is still going strong. This won't make much difference.

[hermit22]

WHY is it so hard to go after public schools?

[susanhelit]

Can't seize St. Peter's - but Vatican property inside the U.S. can be seized for any judgement - as well as anything they'd like to bring in here later.

Not to mention - it'll send a good message, and say plenty about the Vatican - whether they pay up or say they are above the law.

[alvinmoop]

Enjoy the rant, guys, but this suit is going nowhere. The Vatican is a sovereign country and as such can't be sued without its permission. Assuming this ruling survives appeal, (a dubious proposition at best,) the Vatican can simply ignore any damage award. What are the courts going to do? Seize St. Peter's?

Also, one might note that all the abuse (with few exceptions) happened in the 60's, 70's, and into the very early 80's. With the start of John Paul II's papacy, the Church cleaned up its act; but this kind of crime is the gift that keeps on giving. Those within the Church that did the crimes and those who let it all happen are being rightfully punished, but as the cases age and are resolved, this scandal will eventually just go away.

[hermit22]

Agnim, somebody must have really hurt you bad, or someone that you love. Whatever that was or is, I'm sorry and hope you will feel better soon!
Having said that, I'm looking for lawyers meaner than junk yard dogs, who can "nail jello to the wall" when dealing with deceiving liars, and when they get done with the Vatican, maybe they can scare the wackos in the state of Wisconsin till they are petrified spitless,for having covered up childabuse in the public schools! If I can save up for gas to go there and rant myself, I would sure like to take you along to go balistic on them right along with me. Please.

[frankly6]

The Catholic Church behaves more like a rogue corporation than a church. They have little or no concern for their parishiners.

[exusmcsgt]

SusanHelit-

Considering the imprisoned priests and the judgements and awards against the church, I think it has been more than established that the church is not above American law. In regards to God's law, you'll have to ask him. Don't hold your breath waiting on an answer.

[susanhelit]

And the Vatican has objected to and vetoed some of the not overly large steps the American bishops have tried to take. There's no repentance there, they are only upset to be caught, and even more upset at the idea they might have to change at all, that we don't recognize how obviously above both American and God's law they are.

[exusmcsgt]

SusanHelit-

Considering that the church has even stooped so low as to try to blame some of it's victims, I agree. They have been dragged kicking and screaming into compensatory suits - hardly an attitude of repentance, by any measure.

[exusmcsgt]

KathyinMich-

In fact, the church doesn't even follow its own dogma, so why in the world would I consider doing so?

[exusmcsgt]

KathyinMich-

I'l also add that, during its existance, the church has tried to stifle man's understanding and knowledge, waged wars against those who believe differently, operated brothels, and a list of other acts way too long to detail here to the extent that the church only has credibility for those who never outgrew the need to believe in fairy tales.

[susanhelit]

Kathy - forgiveness maybe, after repentance - which is nowhere near right now. Dismissing the lawsuits out of forgiveness is like letting a murderer go free because we're supposed to forgive him. Forgiveness does not erase the immense debt the church owes to those innocents it destroyed.

[susanhelit]

The perpetrators of this horrorific sin, this crime against innocence are not as much the pedophiles, as those who AIDED them to more children, sheltered them, coddled them, nurtured them, protected them from law enforcement. And that's who the lawsuit is against.

The Vatican isn't spending all it's money helping poor orphans or whatever - they've got treasures, castles (one of which has been given as a home and reward to one of the prime bishops involved in the @#@#%@# coverup!) - let them sell that to pay for counselling and help and some feeble reimbursement to the people they've hurt so deeply, here and around the world (we're not the only country where the pedophile priests were sheltered and had their way with children).

Nope, people mad about this aren't Catholic bashers - a Catholic basher IMHO would hardly be as upset as a Catholic would be about this happening - if you're a basher, it just fits what you already think. Those poor souls who believed in the church - they're the ones who are most furious about this, who I'd expect to be hardest on those who turned THEIR church into a sanctuary for pedophiles and their supporters.