CAMP PENDLETON, Calif., Dec. 21, 2006

8 Marines Charged In Haditha Killings

Squad Leader Is Among 4 Charged With Murder; 4 Others Accused Of Failures In Probing Deaths

  • Play CBS Video Video Marines Charged In Iraq Deaths

    Eight marines have been formally charged in connection with the killing of 24 Iraqi civilians. The killings occurred more than a year ago in the town of Haditha. David Martin reports.

    • Twenty-four Iraqi civilians were shot dead in the town of Haditha on  Nov. 19, 2005. Photo

      Twenty-four Iraqi civilians were shot dead in the town of Haditha on Nov. 19, 2005.  (Hammurabi Human Rights Group)

    • This image taken from a videotape made by a Haditha, Iraq, journalism student and obtained by Time Magazine via the Hammurabi Human Rights Group, shows a scene in what appears to be a morgue following an alleged fatal raid by United States forces that took place in Haditha, Iraq, on Nov. 19, 2005. Photo

      This image taken from a videotape made by a Haditha, Iraq, journalism student and obtained by Time Magazine via the Hammurabi Human Rights Group, shows a scene in what appears to be a morgue following an alleged fatal raid by United States forces that took place in Haditha, Iraq, on Nov. 19, 2005.  (AP)

    • A 2005 family photo provided by attorney Mark S. Zaid shows Frank Wuterich of Meriden, Conn. Staff Sgt. Wuterich was charged Thursday with murder in connection with a shooting incident that left 24 civilians dead in Haditha, Iraq, last year. Photo

      A 2005 family photo provided by attorney Mark S. Zaid shows Frank Wuterich of Meriden, Conn. Staff Sgt. Wuterich was charged Thursday with murder in connection with a shooting incident that left 24 civilians dead in Haditha, Iraq, last year.  (CBS)

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(CBS/AP)  Eight Marines were charged Thursday in the killings of 24 Iraqi civilians last year in a bloody, door-to-door sweep in the town of Haditha that came after one of their comrades was killed by a roadside bomb.

It's the biggest criminal case of the Iraq War, reports CBS News national security correspondent David Martin. A sergeant who faces 13 counts of murder and a lieutenant colonel who is accused of dereliction of duty are among the eight Marines charged.

In all, four of the Marines were charged with unpremeditated murder. The other four were officers who were not there but were accused of failures in investigating and reporting the deaths.

The most serious charges were brought against Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich, a 26-year-old squad leader accused of murdering 12 civilians and ordering the murders of six more inside a house cleared by his squad. He was accused of telling his men to "shoot first and ask questions later," according to court papers released by his attorney.

The highest-ranking defendant was Lt. Col. Jeffrey Chessani, 42. He was accused of failing to obey an order or regulation, encompassing dereliction of duty.

At a news conference to announce the charges, military officials would not say what they believe prompted the killings. But investigators have raised the possibility that the men went on a rampage in a fury over the roadside bombing that killed Lance Cpl. Miguel Terrazas of El Paso, Texas, and wounded two other Marines.

Defense attorneys have disputed that, saying their clients were doing what they had been trained to do: responding to a perceived threat with legitimate force.

Terrazas' father denounced the charges, saying his son was murdered by insurgents. "What they are doing to our troops ... it's just wrong," Martin Terrazas said in Texas. "I feel for their families. They are in my prayers."

Wuterich and two comrades charged with murder could get life in prison. The military is not seeking the death penalty. The other men face shorter prison sentences.

The Marine Corps initially reported that 15 Iraqis died in a roadside bomb blast and that Marines killed eight insurgents in an ensuing firefight. That account was widely discredited, and later reports put the number of dead Iraqis at 24.

A criminal probe was launched after Time magazine reported in March, citing survivor accounts and human rights groups, that innocent people were killed.

Lt. Gen. James Mattis, commanding general of the Marine Corps Central Command, said Thursday that the Corps' initial news release, which stated that the civilians in Haditha had been killed by an improvised explosive device, was incorrect.

"We now know with certainty that the press release was incorrect, and that none of the civilians were killed by the IED explosion," Mattis said.

As word spread that charges were imminent, some Iraqis said Thursday that American troops should face justice in Iraq.

"They committed a horrible crime against innocents," Naji al-Ani, a 36-year-old laborer, said by telephone from Haditha.

Other residents of Haditha agreed.

"Are they terrorists or are they fighting terrorism?" said Jamal al-Obaidi, a 40-year-old teacher. "The trial is not fair because it is taking place in America. Executing them is the minimum penalty."

Besides Wuterich, Sgt. Sanick P. Dela Cruz, 24, was accused of the unpremeditated murders of five people and making a false statement. Lance Cpl. Justin Sharratt, 22, was charged with the unpremeditated murder of three Iraqis. Lance Cpl. Stephen Tatum, 25, was accused of the unpremeditated murders of two Iraqis, negligent homicide of four Iraqis and assault.

The other officers charged were 1st Lt. Andrew Grayson, 25, Capt. Lucas McConnell, 31, and Capt. Randy Stone, 34, a military attorney.

The men are not being locked up for now because they are unlikely to flee and are not a danger to themselves or others, said Col. Stewart Navarre, a Corps spokesman.

In Meriden, Conn., Wuterich's father, Dave, said his son was out Christmas shopping. The father said family members believe his son's version of events.

"He says they followed the rules of engagement," Dave Wuterich said. "They were taking small arms fire. They did what they had to do."

©MMVI, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. The Associated Press contributed to this report.

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Add a Comment See all 56 Comments
by perception5 December 21, 2006 5:32 PM EST
Hey CBS....what happened to the Sandy Berger story.....you guys were the last to post it this morning and it's already gone from your site.
This proves how corrupt our liberal MSM wolfpack is........
........and you call yourself a "news" organization........ let's try liberal "propaganda" organization.....!
Reply to this comment
by hambonehd December 21, 2006 6:21 PM EST
What the hell is wrong with this picture??
Our men and woman are being killed everyday over there by cowards hiding behind IEDs and civilians, and we are going to charge them with this??
Sound familar, Viet Nam?
Reply to this comment
by planotiger December 21, 2006 6:50 PM EST
hambonehd, can't disagree with your comments on the tactics we are facing, but it doesn't excuse murder. if guilty, they will well deserve what they get. if we want to say we are the "good guys" then we have to act like the good guys.
Reply to this comment
by December 21, 2006 7:22 PM EST
Some times the gov't will single out a few incidents, call it murder in order to "save face" with the Iraqis or however we are fighting. It's a political thing. It happens in every war. It's just something we have to get used to. These boys can say all they want but it will not carry any weight as they have already been judged.

I do feel sorry for anyone that gets caught up in these political charades, it should never happen
Reply to this comment
by randyrba December 21, 2006 7:25 PM EST
This will and should be a disaster for Marine Corps Recruiting. ****Don't Join The Marines*** If you do review the Rules of Engagement in contingency areas that apply to Marines in writing before you join. Caution --- Look at this guy's picture on this web site and tell me if you see a mass murderer or a guy who started out as a whole person and ended up as a shell because of multiple deployments and a disastrous strategy in Iraq.
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by mitch0927 December 21, 2006 8:28 PM EST
To me the only way to win this war is to get everyone out of that country and the rest just blow them away if necessary.
Reply to this comment
by patriotic9 December 21, 2006 8:30 PM EST
What about those insurgents who kill our Marines every day?I never heard of any charge against them.
Reply to this comment
by patriotic9 December 21, 2006 8:37 PM EST
What about BUSH? Shouldn't he be charged for murders.What about Condi Rice who compared the killing of innocent women,children and elderly people in Lebanon with BIRTH PANG.Marines are charged because they are not the PRESIDENT or SECRETARY OF STATE.
Reply to this comment
by sharncedar December 21, 2006 8:41 PM EST
This is like putting the prison guards at Treblinka on trial and letting the architects of the Third Reich go free. These soldiers were put in a situation, being invaders whose cause was false (no WMD's), which must inevitably lead to abusive behavior. The ones who are guilty are the cowardly murderers hiding in the White House. As usual, they have put some middle class American soldiers in their place to suffer and be punished just as they sent other Americans to die in Vietnam while they hid out in some Republican extremist convention.

The longer we let cowardly murderers escape justice, the more of us will die.
Reply to this comment
by iowajaybird December 21, 2006 9:04 PM EST
I get more and more ashamed every day that Bush is in office and this kind of thing is going on. Bush sent our boys over there and he should be punished, not the boys he pushed into killing people.
Reply to this comment
by ronbraz-2009 December 21, 2006 9:44 PM EST
IN WAR THE INNOCENT DIE. IF THEY DON'T WANT US THAN WE SHOULD GET OUT. GIVE THOSE MARINES A MEDAL AND LET THEM GO ON WITH THEIR LIVES.
Reply to this comment
by annd2302 December 21, 2006 9:53 PM EST
Just why does the Iraq population think the United States is in their country? Bottom line to assist in the formulation of a civil socity and government which is fair and equal to all.
What these marines did was what they had been trained to do: responding to a perceived threat with legitimate force. What if the legitimate force was to kill 48 instead of 24, would that change anything? However if legitimate force was to kill just one, would that of been forgotten? Some Iraqis said that American troops should face justice in Iraq for this, is not 140,000 American soldiers facing justice already? Quote from previous comments, %u201CThis is one of several cases of alleged U.S. misconduct to have emerged from the Iraq war and the second time in six months that Pendleton officials have held a press conference to say they are charging their own in allegedly unlawful killings.%u201D Why are own people charging our own military? Did our military train our soldiers to good? WHAT IS GOING ON PENDELTON????? What about our dead soldiers, who stands trial for that? I am a 38 year veteran (just retired) and just about to change my mind and favor the return of all troops to the United States and leave Iraq and all associates to fend for themselves. All this kind of thing does in the eyes of our marines is creating %u201CHesitation%u201D and that hesitation alone is going to get more marines killed, because they were not trained to hesitate.
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by Jasonian18 December 21, 2006 10:06 PM EST
I know this is war and everything but this doesn't justify the killing of innocent people and as far as i know Bush doesn't control those soldiers those soldiers made their own decisions and unfortunately have to pay and last i checked Iraq was prosecuting Osama for atrocities also including that of 9/11 so we should try our own men and as for this being Bush's fault for sending them over had Clinton done this awhile ago when he had the information Bush would have never had to make such a move after 9/11 was allowed by clinton's stupidity so blame yourselves you democrat
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by Jasonian18 December 21, 2006 10:11 PM EST
but int this state i will allow it simply because this is a new warfare these people have got to remember that our guys over there have to deal with children having bombs strapped to them and then worry about each and every kid and person going around them in Iraq they had no idea who could possibly be an insurgent or terrorist bomber therefore unless it can be strictly proved that they did this solely on the idealogy of revenge for their comrad i will vote against them being prosecuted.
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by sherrypage-2009 December 21, 2006 10:21 PM EST
This is war. No wonder our troops don't want to be there.. You have to let the enemy kill you or you go to prison for life for killing them. The press shouldn't be over there, they are the reason this stupid was keeps going. Let the soldiers do their jobs. You paint them as being murderers........ THIS IS WAR........ IT'S OK FOR THEM TO KILL OUR SOLDIERS AND BEHEAD PEOPLE BUT THAT'S OK IT'S NEWS TO YOU........THESE ARE OUR KIDS AND IF YOU HAD ANY OVER THERE YOU'D SEE IT FROM A MOTHERS POINT OF VIEW......... THESE SOLDIERS ARE HEROS....... LET THEM ALL GO.......
Reply to this comment
by dew326 December 21, 2006 10:30 PM EST
This is an outrage and should not be aloud to continue. The American Marines and Soldiers are being put in harms way every day. While those of us at home sit on our fat rear ends in comfort and safety passing judgment on them. Most of us know nothing of what these young men and women are going through every hour of the day that they are over there in that God forsaken land. I do not understand a government a that puts them in harms way and apparently expects them to all act like saints, when they are dealing with the spawn of satin who have absolutely no respect for the sanctity of human life.
I could go on and on but the bottom line is we need to get get out of that country and let them kill one and other off. Then when they are done, we can deal with the dregs that remain.
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by jumkey December 21, 2006 10:37 PM EST
So I take from the majority of these comments that we Americans really aren't any different than the average terrorist. We're willing to excuse murder simply because "our" side did it.

What a sad commentary on a once great nation, brought its knees by its weakest, most inferior citizens.

How sad. How pathetic. We're all such a bunch of losers.
Reply to this comment
by olebd December 21, 2006 11:01 PM EST
If we leave them alone, they'll eventually kill each other anyway.

I want to see those responsible for beheading and hanging our troops brought to justice....real justice.

Maybe these guys over reacted in this case or maybe after the stress of war day in and day out they realize more and mpre that it's kill or be killed.

The enemy does not wear a uniform over there. They hide behind women and children like cowards.
Reply to this comment
by patriotic9 December 21, 2006 11:03 PM EST
I am not saying that Marines did a great job by killing innocent people.My point is the people responsible for this tragedy are BUSH and Co.They should be tried before our soldiers.I know more innocents we kill in IRAQ,more Arabs will rise up against us.We need to understand their culture.Arabs are not like people in United States where a wife divorces her husband for making money on the name of ALIMONY and CHILD SUPPORT or a husband kills his wife for making money on the name of LIFE INSURANCE POLICY.They have very strong TRIBAL TIES.If one member of a tribe gets killed,literally their HUNDREDS of generations will keep on raising their children to grow up to take revange of their enemy tribe.We should not make UNITED STATES to make their enemy tribe.Our hundreds of generations can't waste their time money and lives fighting a NON-SENSE TRIBAL WAR which we are not incapable to understand.
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by patriotic9 December 21, 2006 11:07 PM EST
I am in hurry.I gotta go somewhere.I know I did some gramatical and spelling mistakes.Have a good night everybody.
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by Jasonian18 December 21, 2006 11:11 PM EST
still my point is the war was nesasary regardless in order to get the radical osama out of office.
Reply to this comment
by Jasonian18 December 21, 2006 11:12 PM EST
before more Americans got killed in attacks on innocent people of ours
Reply to this comment
by omded December 21, 2006 11:18 PM EST
The President, and all the people who put the soldiers in Iraq are responsible - not the soldiers. War is Hell. Soldiers do what they must to survive, both physically and emotionally. The President should have known that before he started the war. He shouldn't be "shocked and appalled" now by the actions of his soldiers. The President should be on trial - not the soldiers. The President should insist that he be tried in their place, and he should plead guilty. He's the murderer. The soldiers are highly stressed and grieving young individuals - not criminals.

The only way the President can redeem himself now is to take full, personal responsibility for this war, and all its horrifying consequences. But there's no way he'll do that. Evil people never take responsibility for their actions.
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by bcadrew December 21, 2006 11:20 PM EST
Does anyone remember Martin Sheen's famous line from "Apocalypse Now". Well it goes like this, "charging someone with murder around here is like giving out speeding tickets at the Indy 500." These marines were normal upstanding people without criminal records and very procuctive lives. Now they find themselves scarred for life by the unfortunate events of combat. Sometimes people snap and it is a proven fact that each time you kill it gets easier. Well it gets really easy once you have seen a friend blown to bits. These guys don't deserve medals for their actions, but they do deserve the help they will need to re-integrate with our society. They do not deserve any prison time at all. In fact, in our legal system I would find them not guity by reason of insanity. After all, is war not insanity at its peak?
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by December 21, 2006 11:36 PM EST
bcadrew wrote:

"These guys don't deserve medals for their actions, but they do deserve the help they will need to re-integrate with our society. They do not deserve any prison time at all."

If found guilty, they deserve to hang.

What they did was murder unarmed and innocent civilians. They should be punished appropriately for their crimes.

If you excuse their behaviour then others may be inclined to carry out their own murders or rapes or even worse.

I can't even believe that morons would choose to defend the murder of unarmed civilians.

You are pathetic.
Reply to this comment
by j-whitman December 21, 2006 11:38 PM EST
They are charging the wrong people,,, Charge Bush for the crimes,, It was his hatred & stupidity that got them there.
Reply to this comment
by j-whitman December 21, 2006 11:43 PM EST
Take Bush, Cheney, Rice -- charge them, not the men & women they send -- What are the numbers?? 80,000 civilians killed -- That would be 80,000 life sentences divided by 3 = Making the world & America safer.
Reply to this comment
by powersmaker December 21, 2006 11:55 PM EST
To all those who have already written off the marines as guilty ...

you got nothin until you have experienced what they did / are. Go back to bed.
Reply to this comment
by twylene140 December 22, 2006 2:02 AM EST
im embarressed to look an solider in the face
and say im an american, we send them off to die for our country...then put them in prison for doing thier job..what do you think will happen to our civilins when the war is fought on american soil?and do you think thier government will put them in jail? GROW UP AMERICA!!!
Reply to this comment
by annd2302 December 22, 2006 2:04 AM EST
One sunny spring morning President Bush says, %u201COh, let%u2019s go to war today%u201D. On that same sunny morning, poof we are in a full blown war with IRAQ. Such a childish statement. How one man can have so much magical power, only in America.

Wake up America; this was just not President Bush and *** Chaney%u2019s decision. Don%u2019t be so quick to point your finger, by the way, we are ALL related.

Support, support, support: JUST READ THIS

sup%u2022port (s -ptrt , -p rt )
tr.v. sup%u2022port%u2022ed, sup%u2022port%u2022ing, sup%u2022ports
1. To bear the weight of, especially from below.
2. To hold in position so as to keep from falling, sinking, or slipping.
3. To be capable of bearing; withstand:
4. To keep from weakening or failing; strengthen:
5. To provide for or maintain, by supplying with money or necessities.
6. To furnish corroborating evidence for:
7. To aid the cause, policy, or interests of:
8. To argue in favor of; advocate:
9. To endure; tolerate:
10. To act in a secondary or subordinate role to (a leading performer).
n.
1. The act of supporting.
2. The state of being supported.
3. One that supports.
4. Maintenance, as of a family, with the necessities of life.

Is this so hard to abide by?
Reply to this comment
by j-whitman December 22, 2006 2:12 AM EST
The fate and restoration of our nation & national security is in the pilots of Air Force 1 -- Throw Bush out the window.
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by j-whitman December 22, 2006 2:15 AM EST
annd,, Actually it was one sunny morning we all woke up to hear Bush wanted to attack a nation that had nothing to do with Bin Laden or terrorism.
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by j-whitman December 22, 2006 3:15 AM EST
The only good outcome of this war -- Republicans can never again say they are good for our military or national security.
Reply to this comment
by randalds December 22, 2006 3:19 AM EST
If found guilty, they should hang. They have dishonored themselves, the US military and their nation. Their actions are inexcusable.
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by j-whitman December 22, 2006 3:28 AM EST
Randall,, I've heard thier next argument is, they didn't violate the Oath of Office because it wasn't performed in a court of law -- Which pretty much nullifies the Pledge of Allegence
Reply to this comment
by fascistusa December 22, 2006 3:42 AM EST
Let's put all this information together.

We INVADED another Country. We started a WAR.

What kind of People are going to VOLUNTEER to fight this WAR?

FASCISTS. Neo-Nazi. Mass Murderers. Sickos.


Reply to this comment
by feelfree1 December 22, 2006 4:23 AM EST
According to the best available estimate, published recently in the Lancet medical journal, more than 650,000 Iraqis have died so far, as a result of the illegal U.S.-led war of aggression against Iraq. Many, many, more innocent Iraqis have been humiliated, imprisoned, tortured, raped, and/or sodomized by U.S. agents.

It is little wonder that U.S. troops are so clearly unwanted in Iraq. %u201CGreeted as Liberators%u201D? I think not. This was just another faith-based lie, fabricated by the Bush regime to justify their crimes.

The Iraqi people have every right to defend themselves against the brutal and illegal invasion and destruction of their country, and against the puppet collaborators of the invading forces.

The recent effort to blame the people of Iraq for the Made in America catastrophe, which we have collectively delivered to them, really plumbs new depths of contemptibility in my opinion.

At any rate, I would agree that even the most heinous murder, rape, and torture offenders in our military ranks, even they deserve an apology from the despicable and illegitimate Bush-puppet-Fuhrer regime.
Reply to this comment
by j-whitman December 22, 2006 4:34 AM EST
What does SOB Bush say ?? "Just go shopping",,, We have a President who couldn't care less about our troops or national security.... ***'s only concerned with spinning his failed legacy.
Reply to this comment
by Free Citizen December 22, 2006 5:02 AM EST
I agree with j-whitman, FeelFree1, fascistusa, RandalDS, et al. This is all BS! A horrible crime was committed against Iraqi civilians and the perpetrators of the crime is free to go holiday shopping? What kind of sick nation will do this to another nation. No remorse, no moral obligation at all. The crime was committed on Iraqi soil, they should be handed over to the Iraqi authorities to be tried by Iraqi law. No other authority be it the US military of the American court of law have the right to decide otherwise. Don't believe the Iraqis will be impartial? Well, they should have thought of that before they went on a killing rampage.
Reply to this comment
by alphaa10-2009 December 22, 2006 5:03 AM EST
powersmaker said, "To all those who have already written off the marines as guilty ...

you got nothin until you have experienced what they did / are. Go back to bed..."
---

So, all the Iraq troops who have not been charged with murder have no experience or "real" understanding of war? Your lack of logic reveals it is long past your bedtime...

If you are upset about "writing off Marines", rest assured the military is notorious for ignoring things like My Lai, so the accused are in friendly territory with judges who are not about to "write them off". We hope they honor America and its values and laws with their decision.

It is also time the rest of our good soldiers got credit for representing our country's values and standards, even in war. How many of them do not go on killing rampages, despite daily threat of IEDs taking two or three of them daily?

What makes good Nazis is the willingness to obey, obey, and obey-- and then cover up the mass graves and deny everything, even to their own family-- even to themselves.
Reply to this comment
by Free Citizen December 22, 2006 5:22 AM EST
alphaa10, no one is slighting the soldiers. It is the regime in Washington that has put America in a war with another nation. A nation that has done no wrong to the US. In short, it is an illegal war. American sons have died in that war for what? For whom? No one is denying the bravery of the American soldiers but is this war a righteous war? Every Iraqi faction wants the foreign forces out of their country but Bush and Gates want to put more troops there. When and what will it take for you to realise that the civil war going on there is an internal Iraqi problem. Not yours. Who interfered with America when it had its civil war? Which foreign nation sent troops to quell the fighting between the Unionists and the Confederates? You know, America must learn to mind their own business. No nation will tolerate the meddling of its internal affairs by foreign forces.
Reply to this comment
by alphaa10-2009 December 22, 2006 6:20 AM EST
Haditha-- 2
Do you remember the similar Iraq atrocity earlier this year of Mahmoudiya? On December 13, 2006, the US military said that, at worst, it might imprison the GI who is accused of raping a 14-year-old Iraqi girl, killing her, burning her body and then killing all her family. Those charged with similar crimes in the US get a quick trip to death row-- or at least, so many Americans prefer to believe.

My point about giving credit to our good soldiers in Iraq is to remind the poster named "powersmaker" the majority of US soldiers DO NOT resort to the berserk behavior with which the eight Marines are accused.

Instead, many of our good soldiers quietly return home with combat stress fatigue and psychiatric disorders. For them, the Bush regime has no sympathy, and tried even to reduce funding in some VA areas, in addition to cutting a planned increase in aid to military families. Clearly, an American public-- informed, concerned and angry about Bush and his kingdom of lies-- is a principal defense network for our soldiers, back in the states.
Reply to this comment
by alphaa10-2009 December 22, 2006 6:21 AM EST
Free_Citizen said, "alphaa10, no one is slighting the soldiers..."
---

You may have misread my post-- I have been hopeful for some time the American people will see justice done with Haditha, including procedural justice for the eight Marines charged. That means confronting the whole truth, while safeguarding the rights of the accused.

My post also has many clues which reveal I have no sympathy with the killers of My Lai, and expect justice will be served with the Haditha case.
Reply to this comment
by drinuk December 22, 2006 8:13 AM EST
The only people who should be in court over Iraq are Muppets Bush and Blair.
Reply to this comment
by December 22, 2006 8:39 AM EST
These guys are alleged to have murdered civilians - including men, women and children as young as 2. If they are found guilty, they should be strung up. We would expect that if insurgents or civilians were caught and found guilty of similar crimes, that they would be punished appropriately.

Using the excuse that this should be excused because "they were soldiers" is pathetic and disgusting and a disgrace to those soldiers who do the right thing on a daily basis.

If you support our soldiers - then you should support putting these alleged criminals on trial.
Reply to this comment
by baldfrog-2009 December 22, 2006 8:56 AM EST
they must have forgot 14 Marines died in one vehicle right out side of Haditha,the same week 6 snipers were killed at the same time last year.i don't know for sure but i believe the 14 in the personnel carrier they were in, was on a road outside Haditha that was blown up so bad it turned the vehicle over on its top.the folks on the road outside the city watched as that happened from the windows of there houses. so f... em.discharge our guys for *** up in the fog of war,of course none of use were there as our friend was killed and our commanders encouraged to them to go get the bad guys.if W and the generals don't know how to get the bad guys how the hell do you expect some privates,corporals and,nco's.please let them ( W,DC,Gates and the generals explain exactly how they are going to weed them out of the general population then they can point out the bad guys and this won't happen again.and we'll save a lot of lives and we can come home.until then lets not ruin the lives of 8 Marines who got caught up in the insanity of war.
Reply to this comment
by mick7744 December 22, 2006 9:19 AM EST
I'm reading a lot of sanctimonious rhetoric about 'the killing of innocent civilians' that is obviously being spewed by those with the same combat amount of experience as the swaggering, draft-dodging moron SOB who got us into this war. Since you people don%u2019t seem to have a clue as to what the hell you%u2019re talking about, I suggest you shut up before making yourself look even more foolish than you already do.

I can%u2019t imagine anything more cruel and violent than a terrified young man thrust into an insane situation with ever-changing rules unless it%u2019s one who is thrust into such a situation that is becoming more and more clearly part of an oil deal.

Speaking as one who was shot at (and occasionally hit) to protect Michelin Rubber and Vice President Ky%u2019s opium, I can assure you that the resentment these young men feel extends to those airheads who imagine themselves morally superior to those who faced what they ran away from to pontificate about, calling those who served their country fascists and baby killers. They must have all read a book or something to get all that wisdom.

I don%u2019t know if these Marines are guilty or innocent, but then of course, neither does anyone else at this point. I do know, however, that all the Iraqis in the world wouldn%u2019t make a pimple on a dead Marines ***, and we should leave those people to the fate they deserve.


Reply to this comment
by sharncedar December 22, 2006 10:55 AM EST
We shouldn't compare this war with Vietnam. Vietnam was an inept strategy in support of a rational cause. The Iraq war is an inept strategy in support of an openly acknowleged lie or a mistake. The war was started on the basis of Iraq both having weapons of mass destruction and being an imminent threat to use those weapons against America. That premise was a lie or a mistake, probably on both counts.

South Vietnam was in fact invaded by a communist proxy army, and they were indeed pretty bad folks as later events showed. It was neither a lie or a mistake. There was an actual invasion of the south by the north. The strategy, which was to avoid conflict with Russia or China through our typical political cowardice doomed the war to failure.

The analogy with Iraq would be if it turned out there really were no viet cong fighters in Vietnam, that the whole premise of the conflict was a lie or mistake. Imagine that. Imagine the enormity of that. Americans dying for a lie or a mistake.

Guess what, we are.

Reply to this comment
by inresponse1 December 22, 2006 10:59 AM EST
Actually, I feel sorry for everybody in this entire matter including the officer charged with the crime. This is a TEXT BOOK consequence of what happens when trained military personnel are applied to "police action" duties. The rules of engagement denature and men and women "trained to kill" under warfare conditions meet head on with civilians who seem innocent but may in fact be "live ordnance," literally. We saw the same thing occur in Vietnam when the soldiers were instructed to "fire if fired upon." This instructions defines "police action," and trained military personnel should not have to put their lives on the line under this type of limited and dangerous circumstance. I am appalled. Get these service people out of Iraq, they don't belong there under this type of circumstance.
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by jacqueline41-2009 December 22, 2006 11:40 AM EST
All in always unfair in our world of love and war no matter who the victim is.
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