First Cloned Cat Has Kittens

Copy Cat, Now 5, Does It Without Test Tubes, Help

(AP)  The world's first cloned cat just became a mother — and she even did it without test tubes.

Copy Cat, who was cloned by Texas A&M University researchers in 2001, had three kittens in September. Mother and kittens are doing well, said Duane Kraemer, an A&M veterinary medicine professor who helped clone her and has been taking care of her since.

"They're cute and we thought people ought to know about the birth," "But we're hoping it doesn't cause the same frenzy CC did."

CC got worldwide attention after she was cloned at Texas A&M, which has cloned more species than any institution in the world, including cattle, swine, goats, horses and a deer.

The father is Smokey, a naturally born tabby who was brought in to mate with CC. Two of the kittens take after their mother, while the third has a gray coat like his father.

CC is not the first cloned cat to give birth, Kraemer said. In New Orleans, two cloned wild African cats successfully mated to produce kittens.

[beacheshuman]

If god didn't want cloning to happen, she never would have let us discover it. Period.

[nothappyatall]

Exactly beacheshuman, exactly!

[nothappyatall]

Still, the process is not without it's issues, having to go thru egg harvesting and implatation a few hundred times just to get ONE surviving embrio is not exactly kind to the animals, nor efficient, but as with all new medicine new breakthroughs will happen and cloning may be as easy a invitro fertilization is now.

Thing is, if a client of this company wants a clone NOW, the cost can be $50,000, who here could afford or afford to justify spending $50,000 on a cloned pet cat when there's thousands in shelters out there for free?

A $50,000 pricetag greatly reduces the company's market to a small number of wealthy clients.
Like many medical breakthroughs, the technoplogy is marvelous, but if it costs $2,000,000 to clone and replace your failing heart, and insurance won't cover it, and you have no money to speak of then this technology is basically useless to the average working stiff anyway.

[wiibe]

That's right. God directed us to discover cloning. We are just learning how great God's creation is.

[cavalrysct19]

Hmmm interesting

[ecuadoriana]

Good grief, with all the MILLIONS of unwanted pets that are killed every year scientists need to go and clone cats?

Hmmm... let me be more specific- with all the MILLIONS of unwanted children that are aborted every year (not to mention all the ones that are killed by their parents & killed by predators, etc.) how would cloning make this a better world? Do we need more babies to feed the child porn rings? We need more children to die at the hands of their abusive parents?

Or is this an attempt to clone "the Perfect" human, one that would be raised by scientists in a lab, protected from all harm from the outside world? Would this baby be then used to breed/clone even more "Perfect" humans? Would they then become the "Perfect Race"? They'd probably want to then make sure they don't use the wrong colour father in the breeding cage.

What's that smell?
Smells a bit like Hitler.

[jlmcscanner]

beacheshuman, I`m sure you meant to say He and not she when refering to God.Other than that I agree with you that God gave us a mind and how we use it determines what kind of people mankind is and will be.

[ecuadoriana]

No, jlmcscanner,beacheshuman actually meant to type "she" when referring to "god".

And your comment "God gave us a mind and how we use it determines what kind of people mankind is and will be" speaks clearly about human ego & stupidity. The ego part- believing that we can "play god" & create life through means other than the natural intent. The stupid part- believing that we can "play god" & create life through means other than the natural intent & assume that there will be no consequences, or, when there are, we refuse to accept responsibility & look elsewhere to place the blame. Like, when an army of little white nazi clones breaks out of the lab & creates havoc in the streets, there will be those who will say: "Well, that was god's will"- like blaming some omnipotent entity for the studid actions of humans makes it alright.

[random_radar]

"If god didn't want cloning to happen, she never would have let us discover it. Period."

Posted by beacheshuman at 01:10 PM : Dec 15, 2006

-------------------------------------------------

While I am not opposed to cloning, I am opposed to stupidity. To extend your argument...

If God didn't want murder to happen, God never would have let us discover it.

If God didn't want child abuse to happen, God never would have let us discover it.

It God didn't want rape, incest, poverty, disease, violence, dishonesty, and everything else to happen, God would never have let us discover it.

Maybe bad things are an intrinsic part of the universe and our challenge is to overcome the bad and promote the good? I don't consider the fact that people can and do choose between good and evil any proof of God condoning evil, let alone a proof that there is no god.

But a lot of irreligious people seem to disagree.

[sim828524s]

Very beautiful cats. I have five myself.

I wounder if they found a home for them yet.

I know some people who would love to take care of them.

[ecuadoriana]

You made some good points there, random_radar.

I would also want to mention to beacheshuman that since I am not a religious person, in that I don't believe in the white-robed, long flowing white beard, sitting on the clouds & playing white puppet-master god, then I suppose, according to your theory, that this is "god's will"? So, what would be the purpose of that? To make the "believers" feel more righteous? I don't get it. Not really trying to start any argument, but just rhetorically wondering out loud.

Anyway, this article only shows the fluffy happy side of cloning. I have shared my home, over my many years, with 15 cats who were rescued from certain death at humane shelters. Also, 2 dogs & a ferret. All these animals were dumped by people who decided the novelty of a cute kitten, puppy & baby ferret had worn off. The responsibilty of feeding, caring for, & loving another life was too much for them, so it was easier to dump & run- not so much different than what we do on our toilets!

What would be the purpose of cloning more unwanted animals? Maybe the cosmetic companies are running out of test subjects? The horrors never cease.

[jimibear]

Interesting post, random_radar. I'm not religious myself (conventionally, anyway). Although I do believe there is a supreme being, I don't think we limited humans are capable of understanding that being, so any given religion has only one small piece of the truth.

Here's a piece of logic I have used to shut up obnoxious born-agains who try to convert me:

"If your version of God is the real one, and everything is God's will, then it's God's will that I don't believe in Him. So stop acting against God's will, and leave me alone!"


It seems to work pretty well. :-)

I think anyone who presumes to know God's will is arrogant beyond belief. And in fact, most religious teachings have their version of "thou shalt not presume to know the mind of God". Lots of people are happy to decide what God wants for others, though, aren't they?

Cute cats. That's all I have to say.

[jimibear]

And Ecuadoriana, I tend to agree with your concerns about cloning. I'd remind you, though, that every technology can be abused. Radiation can cure cancer; it's also a weapon. Developing vaccines also teaches how to develop disease. Cloning will allow the growth of replacement, non-rejectable parts for people who need hearts, livers, etc. It could also be used as a form of eugenics.

Your overall point stands most clearly - that how people exercise their free will is what's important. And in fact, if people actually read their Bible for comprehension, they'd realize that according to Christianity, God gave us free will and the ability to choose so that we could learn and grow. He put out the rules in the hope that we would follow them, but knowing blind obedience is meaningless, gave alternatives as well. And He specifically said, "Don't try to second-guess Me. Worry about your own salvation, not trying to guess what I want."

People are frightened by free will, choice and thought. They all think they want it, but then run from it to sloganeering and prejudice instead.

[alimech]

God was a know as a woman for many thousands of years before the Judo-Christians came around.

[nothappyatall]

"Maybe bad things are an intrinsic part of the universe and our challenge is to overcome the bad and promote the good? I don't consider the fact that people can and do choose between good and evil any proof of God condoning evil, let alone a proof that there is no god."

Oh right, so according to this logic let's just USE those 5 and 10 year year old children, babies pregnant women and others that are brutally raped and killed or contract horrible diseases like cancer- as god's pawns in some TWISTED, sick "lessons" we are supposed to learn but no one knows what these "lessons" seem to be or which way to go, it's all "gods will" yeah right!
He/she/it would be USING people as pawns and toys knowing full well the results- in other words and all knowing and seeing entity deliberately setting people up for failure, deaths by accidents or murder- some loving god you people worship like a bunch of dumb sheeple!!

Quit foisting this murderous hypocritcal god off on the rest of us, some of us refuse to worship some brutal murdering bstard of a god that does what yours does to people and animals.

[nothappyatall]

It's all your god's will that a bus goes out of control by accident and slams into a car full of children and their mom killing all of them in a blazing exposion- IF they are lucky, if not and they survive with 3rd degree burns, scarred and disfigured for life. I want no part of THIS god of yours or his "good news" of the gospel.

[linfinster]

What a bunch of fools. You should be more careful about what blame you place on God. Don't you know that the devil lurks about hoping to snare you into his world for as long as possible, until God has shown that man cannot direct his own path. Then instant destruction will be upon him. Etc Etc,
Why would you blame God for such evil acts? That's very bad. And ignorant of the Bible.

[nothappyatall]

No linfinster- *YOUR* god, *YOUR* bible, one of hundreds that people around the world believe in, all with the same rhetoric that their religion is the only true one. All I know is we are alive we are here, we need to WORK and earn money to buy food, a roof over the head, utilities so we dont freeze to death, clothes etc and THAT my man is the main thing most everyone has to think about every day. MONEY is the only thing that buys what a person needs to survive in the modern world in anything more than a cave in the Amazon jungle.
If you live in the US, you need a house or other place to live, that all costs money, taxes too.

Seems your god forgot such basics to include with the birth package like clothes, food, shelter, heat so we dont freeze to death.

"What would be the purpose of cloning more unwanted animals?"

Unwanted animals? I seriously doubt a $50,000 cat is "unwanted"!

"Why would you blame God for such evil acts? That's very bad. And ignorant of the Bible."

They are called 'acts of GOD' it's even in your insurance policy take a look, it doesnt matter if a tsunami killing 200,000 people was an accident or planned by your god- he either caused it or ALLOWED it to happen- another twisted "lesson" I guess, the one that says dont trust THIS god he kills at random for kicks- the SAME god who demands that some people be STONED TO DEATH for minor "infractions". Ever see someone stoned to death? I have and this is what your god demands!

[nothappyatall]

Headline today: "4 Dead As Storm Slams Northwest "

WHO made this storm exist at all?

Cluebus: your god, the same one you worship, the same one who demands people be stoned to death, that children who curse their parents must also be STONED to death.
Your bible is chock full of violence and dripping with a bloody, gory, gruesome, ghastly and deadly history going back centuries, and this is the krap you want to foist off on other people????
It's time to bankrupt the church as a money grubbing hypocrital mind control entity whose time has long expired, eliminate it off the planet and demolish every last church that stands.

[grumpas]

Why do people have to bring God into everything??? This is the ignorants way of explaining what they don't understand in this world! Just like Linfinster telling us that the devil lurks behind every corner to lure us into bad things! It's an easy way of explaining why bad things happen to good human's! As far as I can see it's people who believe in religious supersition that are the fools! They are letting myth control their lives!

[amazedd]

Put the blame on St. Helen's.

[ecuadoriana]

Rock on, newster1!!

Oh hey, Linfinster, maybe "the devil lurking about" is actually god's will, according to you. So in that case, god the omnipotent has allowed something even stronger than he/she to exist, so where's the omnipotence in that?

Or...maybe god & the devil are in cohoots with each other, sort of like "good cop/bad cop" thing, like mafia brothers, & it's been their plan all along to screw with everybody. Obviously they are buddies- or else one would have wiped the other out long ago.

This cat was cloned by Texas A&M if have not forgotten, now it has occured to me that Robert Gates our new Secretary of Defense is also from Texas A&M and has ties to the middle east, so I wonder what he is going to clone next? Hopefully not Bush

[gaye5]

newster1 you wrote....some of us refuse to worship some brutal murdering bstard of a god that does what yours does to people and animals.
It is counter productive for all of us to carry on like this. The fact is whether you believe in God or not, if we all followed the ten commandments we would not have any of the worlds problems today, people would be kind and loving towards each other, the fact is that 99% of the worlds population choose to do their own thing, so blaming God because people want to do horrific things is not on. What a cruel God it would be if he took away our free will and controlled us like puppets to jump when he said...
Why is it that people cant think for themselves, people don't want Gods laws, regardless of if it is Buddha, Hindu or the Christian God, they say that God is a myth then when things go wrong they blame the God they don't believe in, come on people...

[gaye5]

newster1, I sure wasn't pointing a finger at you, as although I go to church sometimes, I know where you are coming from and some religious people make me sick also, so what does it do to those who don't believe..
Of course it is not Gods will that these things should happen, and we cant blame everything on satan, people makes mistakes, they drink and drive killing others in the process etc, that is self that has caused that not satan.. etc
For goodness sake they must know that earthquakes and the likes are the earth moving etc... And you are dead right we don't need the ten commandments, especially if people would treating each other like they want to be treated themselves- again so true, but that also will do no better than the ten commandments as people are full of self, just watch what they watch on TV it is mostly full of self,hate, steal, murder and immorality.
I toooo wish people would quit putting bible quotes on here, they are useless to those who don't believe, what rights do these people think that they have to force our beliefs on others who don't want to hear... However on the subject of cloning, it sure worries me, all sounds to much like hitler all over again, we are manipulated to believe that it is good but where will it stop...spare parts..and as I do believe in God, I dont like it, but I wont shove my belief down your neck.

[gaye5]

Now I would just like to raise an issue here. A Virginia firm reported a cloned pig litter in April. But the pig research is especially promising, because pigs could become human tissue and organ donors.
Now I have read that some people who have had transplants have discovered that they desire all sorts of things that they previously didn't like, or that they want to do things that they didn't before and in talking to the donors family they have found that, that is what their loved one liked or didn't like, so does this mean that the recipients of pig parts could want to eat whey, and hang out with pigs...ehhehe

[catt42701]

I was unaware of the need for more cats but then I can't read everything. What we need is non-living meat. Like steaks in a petri dish and such. That way we could cut back on livestock, decrease pasture lands to let it go back to its native flora and fauna. It would be nice to have meat without having to kill something. When they can do that then we can truly say there has been an advancement in science and alive things can be alive just for the thrill of it.