4 Marines Killed In Iraq Copter Landing

Marine Deaths In Emergency Landing Raise U.S. Weekend Death Toll To 13

(CBS/AP)  A U.S. helicopter carrying 16 Marines went down in a lake west of the Iraqi capital in volatile Anbar province, killing four of them, the military said Monday.

The twin-rotor CH-46 helicopter from 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing made the emergency landing Sunday near the shore of Lake Qadisiyah "in which the pilots maintained control of the aircraft the entire time."

It said the helicopter had experienced mechanical problems and was not hit by gunfire.

Twelve passengers survived the crash; a Marine was pulled from the water but attempts to resuscitate him were unsuccessful. A search was then conducted for three missing Marines whose bodies were found, the military said.

The crash occurred in Anbar province, where many of Iraq's Sunni Arab insurgent groups are based and where many U.S. Marines die in battles with the militants.

The death of the Marines raised to 13 the number of American service members who died this weekend in Iraq, an unusually high casualty toll for American forces over a two-day period.

The death brought to at least 2,897 the number of members of the U.S. military who have died since the Iraq war started in March 2003, according to an Associated Press count.

On Saturday and Sunday, eight U.S. soldiers and a Marine died, and two soldiers were wounded, in Baghdad or north of the capital.

More Iraqis fell victim Monday as well. At least six were killed in a drive-by shooting and a car bombing.

In the worst attack, suspected militants killed three government agricultural engineers and their driver in a drive-by shooting as they headed to work Monday morning in Baqouba, 35 miles northeast of Baghdad.

A similar attack about 13 miles to the north killed a man and woman driving in the town of Khalis. The deaths were reported by police who spoke on condition of anonymity to protect their safety in Diyala, a province where heavy fighting has taken place recently with insurgents who often target Iraqi security forces.

In Mosul, 225 miles northwest of Baghdad, a suicide car bomber attacked a U.S. military convoy and wounded five nearby Iraqi civilians, said Dr. Bahaldin al-Barki, who works at the hospital where they were taken. No U.S. casualties were reported.

In northern Baghdad, American forces killed two insurgents and detained six during a raid on buildings where insurgents with ties to al Qaeda in Iraq were making car bombs, the U.S. command said. A weapons cache including artillery rounds and AK-47s also was found.

In other developments:

Saddam Hussein's lawyers Sunday appealed the death sentence handed down to the ousted Iraqi president. Five Iraqi judges on Nov. 5 sentenced Saddam and two other senior members of his regime to death by hanging for the killing of 148 people in the town of Dujail, north of Baghdad.

On Sunday, two Iraqi boys, ages 10 and 15, were slightly wounded in an attack on coalition forces during which insurgents fired a rifle grenade in Haditha, 140 miles northwest of Baghdad, the U.S. command said. The coalition forces, who suffered no casualties, detained two Iraqis believed to have been involved in the attack.

Police Lt. Ali Hassan said the casualty totals from Saturday's triple car bombing of a food market in the mostly Shiite al-Sadriyah district of central Baghdad had risen to 68 dead and 111 wounded.


©MMVI, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. The Associated Press contributed to this report.

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  PhotosIraq Photos:July 13?July 19

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by December 5, 2006 3:28 AM EST

Do not reply or respond to Bushrocks1 or agnim, neither are worth the trouble

Reply to this comment

by agnim December 5, 2006 1:10 AM EST

Italy Pulls Out Final Troops From Iraq
Italy has pulled out its last troops from Iraq - weeks ahead of schedule. At one point Italy had 3,000 troops in Iraq and was Washington's second largest coalition partner, after Britain.

Reply to this comment

by patriotic9 December 4, 2006 6:36 PM EST

tibu987
It's very easy to get out now but what will be the consequences.Islamic Radicals have used UNITED STATES the 2nd time.First time,Bin Laden had used REAGAN ADMINISTRATION.Saddam was a SECULAR DICTATOR who was an enemy of RADICAL ISLAM.He had killed so many of his own people who wanted to establish a RADICAL ISLAMIC STATE.The ISLAMIC RADICALS didn't spend s single penny to remove SADDAM from power but he was removed by the US TAX DOLLARS and by the US Soldiers' life.As a result of democracy,whoever will be elected as a PRIME MINISTER,will practically be a GOVERNOR from IRANIAN AYATOLLAHs.Iraqi SHIAs are much more EXTREMIST then IRANIANS as the HOLIEST CITIES of SHIA MUSLIMS namely NAJAF and KARBALA are in IRAQ.Iraq at the time of Saddam was the only country which had stopped these ISLAMIC RADICALS to form an ISLMIC EMPIRE from IRAN in the EAST to LEBANON in the WEST.According to the SHIA ISLAM,they believe in the second coming of their final IMAM named IMAM MEHDI who they believe will kill all the NON-MUSLIMS.Death of a CHRISTIAN LEADER in LEBANON is a part of the same plan.Do you think in this situation we can leave IRAQ so that AYATOLLAHs get the control of OIL in the MIDDLE EAST.

Reply to this comment

by tibu987 December 4, 2006 6:06 PM EST

Enough killing of young Americans and Iraqi's.
Get out now. If the Iraqi's persist in killing each other it is for them to settle.
Nothing good has come of our invasion of Iraq and certainly very many atrocities.
Many more people have died in the invasion that have ever died under Sadam Hussein.
"With friends like the U.S., who needs enemies."
The decision to invade Iraq will go down in history as one of the most stupid of all U.S. foreign policy gaffes and the Bush regime will be shamed for eternity.

Reply to this comment

by bushrocks1 December 4, 2006 5:43 PM EST

Would I send my son to this war? You might ask would I send him to World War II? Or Vietnam? Maybe you would distinguish those conflicts and whether you would send your son to fight in them. But that question is misdirected in a very important way: I can't command my son to go to war. He has to make that choice. So the better question would be: would I volunteer to fight in Iraq, WW II, Vietnam? Would I volunteer to fight in any war? Respond if drafted? I don%u2019t know. I'm not equivocating, only addressing that it is a hypothetical. To a hypothetical, I can answer, sure I'd fight. But I have nightmares of battle (from my past life as a Jacobite). So how do I feel toward those who do volunteer? Impressed and maturely knowing that many things go into their decision. But I do strongly believe that a country that can't find those men is doomed. The fact that we can find them is one reason why I say there is no failure in Iraq. Objectively, I also believe it for other reasons. An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East is a bold, brilliant, noble effort, facing a high chance of failure. That's why I greatly respect and admire those who have made the attempt--the Bush administration. They have been resolute, something I have not seen in my lifetime. They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front being a big one. Now those traitors have apparently occupied the high ground. Yet... we're still in Iraq. Why?...I'm waiting.

Reply to this comment

by patriotic9 December 4, 2006 5:37 PM EST

How many more GOD-NEGLECTED AMERICANS need to give sacrifice of their LIVES,LIMBS and BODY PARTS for the GOD-CHOSEN NON-AMERICAN EUROPEAN INVADERS IN PALESTINE.Bush had sent US troops to Iraq for bringing JESUS back to this world.Jesus didn't come back but the ISLAMIC RADICALISM has become so strong and powerfull like it was never before.All this on the cost of AMERICAN MONEY and AMERICAN LIVES.So that was the purpose of US invasion in IRAQ.To remove a SECULAR GOVT and to bring an EXTREMIST ISLAMIC SHIA radical into power who takes our TAX PAYED MONEY on the name of REBUILDING IRAQ to establish an EXTREMIST ISLMIC EMPIRE from IRAN in the EAST to LEBANON in the WEST so that SHIA according to their RADICAL RELIGIOUS IDEOLOGY kill all the so-called INFIDELS to help bringing their MESSIAH named IMAM AL MEHDI back in this world.
Why everything taught in the NON-SENSE,BASE LESS,RACIST,UNJUST and THOUSANDS OF YEARS OLD BACKWARD CHRISTIANITY has been proven flat wrong.If GOD really exist,why is he sleeping?Why it's the responsibility of AMERICANS to go through all the sufferings and why it's the job of FRENCH,DUTCH,etc to enjoy the real western life.

Reply to this comment

by bushrocks1 December 4, 2006 5:30 PM EST

Would I send my son to this war? You might ask would I send him to World War II? Or Vietnam? Maybe you would distinguish those conflicts and whether you would send your son to fight in them. But that question is misdirected in a very important way: I can't command my son to go to war. He has to make that choice. So the better question would be: would I volunteer to fight in Iraq, WW II, Vietnam? Would I volunteer to fight in any war? Respond if drafted? I don%u2019t know. I'm not equivocating, only addressing that it is a hypothetical. To a hypothetical, I can answer, sure I'd fight. But I have nightmares of battle (from my past life as a Jacobite). So how do I feel toward those who do volunteer? Impressed and maturely knowing that many things go into their decision. But I do strongly believe that a country that can't find those men is doomed. The fact that we can find them is one reason why I say there is no failure in Iraq. Objectively, I also believe it for other reasons. An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East is a bold, brilliant, noble effort, facing a high chance of failure. That's why I greatly respect and admire those who have made the attempt--the Bush administration. They have been resolute, something I have not seen in my lifetime. They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front being a big one. Now those traitors have apparently occupied the high ground. Yet... we're still in Iraq. Why?...I'm waiting.

Reply to this comment

by roger_inkart December 4, 2006 5:13 PM EST

I opposed this war before the first shot was fired. I suspected Saddam's weapons arsenal was nowhere near where the administration claimed it was. I thought the US military would get bogged down in a guerilla war it could win, much as it did in Vietnam. I can take no satisfaction in being right about these things, but I hope those that were wrong would at least have the guts to admit it. The nation needs to support plans to bring the US soldiers home and soon. It's ok to be wrong. It's not ok to be wrong and not be able to admit it, costing more and more blood and money.

Reply to this comment

by tj1504 December 4, 2006 4:27 PM EST

Would I send my son to this war? You might ask would I send him to World War II? Or Vietnam? Maybe you would distinguish those conflicts and whether you would send your son to fight in them. But that question is misdirected in a very important way: I can't command my son to go to war. He has to make that choice. So the better question would be: would I volunteer to fight in Iraq, WW II, Vietnam? Would I volunteer to fight in any war? Respond if drafted? I don%u2019t know. I'm not equivocating, only addressing that it is a hypothetical. To a hypothetical, I can answer, sure I'd fight. But I have nightmares of battle (from my past life as a Jacobite). So how do I feel toward those who do volunteer? Impressed and maturely knowing that many things go into their decision. But I do strongly believe that a country that can't find those men is doomed. The fact that we can find them is one reason why I say there is no failure in Iraq. Objectively, I also believe it for other reasons. An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East is a bold, brilliant, noble effort, facing a high chance of failure. That's why I greatly respect and admire those who have made the attempt--the Bush administration. They have been resolute, something I have not seen in my lifetime. They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front being a big one. Now those traitors have apparently occupied the high ground. Yet... we're still in Iraq. Why?...I'm waiting.

Reply to this comment

by tj1504 December 4, 2006 4:25 PM EST

Would I send my son to this war? You might ask would I send him to World War II? Or Vietnam? Maybe you would distinguish those conflicts and whether you would send your son to fight in them. But that question is misdirected in a very important way: I can't command my son to go to war. He has to make that choice. So the better question would be: would I volunteer to fight in Iraq, WW II, Vietnam? Would I volunteer to fight in any war? Respond if drafted? I don%u2019t know. I'm not equivocating, only addressing that it is a hypothetical. To a hypothetical, I can answer, sure I'd fight. But I have nightmares of battle (from my past life as a Jacobite). So how do I feel toward those who do volunteer? Impressed and maturely knowing that many things go into their decision. But I do strongly believe that a country that can't find those men is doomed. The fact that we can find them is one reason why I say there is no failure in Iraq. Objectively, I also believe it for other reasons. An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East is a bold, brilliant, noble effort, facing a high chance of failure. That's why I greatly respect and admire those who have made the attempt--the Bush administration. They have been resolute, something I have not seen in my lifetime. They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front being a big one. Now those traitors have apparently occupied the high ground. Yet... we're still in Iraq. Why?...I'm waiting.

Reply to this comment

by grazinggoat December 4, 2006 4:10 PM EST

Stay the course, bushrots1,
here's another one for you..., thanks arthurcl1, with all my respects for copyrights ;)
More Body Bags for Bush! He wanted to go it alone in Irag! No weapons of mass destruction found. A big Lie to the American People just for his Oil Buddys to be able to mine for more oil. No reconstruction going on for the people and civil war raging! Another Vietnam where Bush, Rumsfield, and Cheney have us. "Stay the Course, We will be Victorious". It's getting old fast for them to keep saying that.

Reply to this comment

by grazinggoat December 4, 2006 4:06 PM EST

bushrots1,
here's another one for you..., thanks arthurcl1, with all my respects for copyrights ;)
More Body Bags for Bush! He wanted to go it alone in Irag! No weapons of mass destruction found. A big Lie to the American People just for his Oil Buddys to be able to mine for more oil. No reconstruction going on for the people and civil war raging! Another Vietnam where Bush, Rumsfield, and Cheney have us. "Stay the Course, We will be Victorious". It's getting old fast for them to keep saying that.

Reply to this comment

by arthurcl1 December 4, 2006 4:02 PM EST

TJ READ the comments in full on this page by Agnim,roach9703,marcodele. I am not the only one saying this and Freedom of Speech reigns! Why do you think Bush lost all his Republican Support in House and Senate! Because the American People are stating the same thing! They are all tired of this war going nowhere!

Reply to this comment

by arthurcl1 December 4, 2006 3:32 PM EST

More Body Bags for Bush! He wanted to go it alone in Irag! No weapons of mass destruction found. A big Lie to the American People just for his Oil Buddys to be able to mine for more oil. No reconstruction going on for the people and civil war raging! Another Vietnam where Bush, Rumsfield, and Cheney have us. "Stay the Course, We will be Victorious". It's getting old fast for them to keep saying that.

Reply to this comment

by bushrocks1 December 4, 2006 3:04 PM EST

Would I send my son to this war? You might ask would I send him to World War II? Or Vietnam? Maybe you would distinguish those conflicts and whether you would send your son to fight in them. But that question is misdirected in a very important way: I can't command my son to go to war. He has to make that choice. So the better question would be: would I volunteer to fight in Iraq, WW II, Vietnam? Would I volunteer to fight in any war? Respond if drafted? I don%u2019t know. I'm not equivocating, only addressing that it is a hypothetical. To a hypothetical, I can answer, sure I'd fight. But I have nightmares of battle (from my past life as a Jacobite). So how do I feel toward those who do volunteer? Impressed and maturely knowing that many things go into their decision. But I do strongly believe that a country that can't find those men is doomed. The fact that we can find them is one reason why I say there is no failure in Iraq. Objectively, I also believe it for other reasons. An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East is a bold, brilliant, noble effort, facing a high chance of failure. That's why I greatly respect and admire those who have made the attempt--the Bush administration. They have been resolute, something I have not seen in my lifetime. They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front being a big one. Now those traitors have apparently occupied the high ground. Yet... we're still in Iraq. Why?...I'm waiting.

Reply to this comment

by agnim December 4, 2006 2:58 PM EST

""Stay the course" - Now it turns out even Rumsfeld didn't believe in that.

The emporer has no clothes.
Posted by marcodele at 11:44 AM : Dec 04, 2006"

Dam straight!

Instead of 'staying the course', the rat Rumsfeld jump the sinking ship in the Iraqi desert! LOL

Reply to this comment

by marcodele December 4, 2006 2:44 PM EST

I guess Bush thinks if he can forbid any and all physical evidence of the bodies returning from Iraq, the American people won't notice the death toll.

"Stay the course" - Now it turns out even Rumsfeld didn't believe in that.

The emporer has no clothes.

Reply to this comment

by roach9703 December 4, 2006 1:37 PM EST

We have to face up to the fact that until Al-Qaeda in subdued and fully under control our troops are going have to be Iraq. We need to get help from other European nations to bring order into Iraq, NOW.

Reply to this comment

by agnim December 4, 2006 1:07 PM EST

Bring the boys home from the Iraqi hell hole NOW!

Nothing over there in that god forsaken place is worth another American life or limb!

If mounting wasteful body bags are what it will take to finally awaken the still sleeping American minds to NOT 'stay the course', then by the devil they will get their body bags.

The maniac muslims and the other Semites and their silly supporters are not bothered by the murder and mayhem; since they see this violence and death as a means to maniacal martyrdom/the fulfillment of worthless biblical bull fantasies.

Reply to this comment

by grumpas December 4, 2006 12:47 PM EST

Amen rharrin1!

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Do not reply or respond to Bushrocks1 or agnim, neither are worth the trouble

[agnim]

Italy Pulls Out Final Troops From Iraq
Italy has pulled out its last troops from Iraq - weeks ahead of schedule. At one point Italy had 3,000 troops in Iraq and was Washington's second largest coalition partner, after Britain.

[patriotic9]

tibu987
It's very easy to get out now but what will be the consequences.Islamic Radicals have used UNITED STATES the 2nd time.First time,Bin Laden had used REAGAN ADMINISTRATION.Saddam was a SECULAR DICTATOR who was an enemy of RADICAL ISLAM.He had killed so many of his own people who wanted to establish a RADICAL ISLAMIC STATE.The ISLAMIC RADICALS didn't spend s single penny to remove SADDAM from power but he was removed by the US TAX DOLLARS and by the US Soldiers' life.As a result of democracy,whoever will be elected as a PRIME MINISTER,will practically be a GOVERNOR from IRANIAN AYATOLLAHs.Iraqi SHIAs are much more EXTREMIST then IRANIANS as the HOLIEST CITIES of SHIA MUSLIMS namely NAJAF and KARBALA are in IRAQ.Iraq at the time of Saddam was the only country which had stopped these ISLAMIC RADICALS to form an ISLMIC EMPIRE from IRAN in the EAST to LEBANON in the WEST.According to the SHIA ISLAM,they believe in the second coming of their final IMAM named IMAM MEHDI who they believe will kill all the NON-MUSLIMS.Death of a CHRISTIAN LEADER in LEBANON is a part of the same plan.Do you think in this situation we can leave IRAQ so that AYATOLLAHs get the control of OIL in the MIDDLE EAST.

[tibu987]

Enough killing of young Americans and Iraqi's.
Get out now. If the Iraqi's persist in killing each other it is for them to settle.
Nothing good has come of our invasion of Iraq and certainly very many atrocities.
Many more people have died in the invasion that have ever died under Sadam Hussein.
"With friends like the U.S., who needs enemies."
The decision to invade Iraq will go down in history as one of the most stupid of all U.S. foreign policy gaffes and the Bush regime will be shamed for eternity.

[bushrocks1]

Would I send my son to this war? You might ask would I send him to World War II? Or Vietnam? Maybe you would distinguish those conflicts and whether you would send your son to fight in them. But that question is misdirected in a very important way: I can't command my son to go to war. He has to make that choice. So the better question would be: would I volunteer to fight in Iraq, WW II, Vietnam? Would I volunteer to fight in any war? Respond if drafted? I don%u2019t know. I'm not equivocating, only addressing that it is a hypothetical. To a hypothetical, I can answer, sure I'd fight. But I have nightmares of battle (from my past life as a Jacobite). So how do I feel toward those who do volunteer? Impressed and maturely knowing that many things go into their decision. But I do strongly believe that a country that can't find those men is doomed. The fact that we can find them is one reason why I say there is no failure in Iraq. Objectively, I also believe it for other reasons. An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East is a bold, brilliant, noble effort, facing a high chance of failure. That's why I greatly respect and admire those who have made the attempt--the Bush administration. They have been resolute, something I have not seen in my lifetime. They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front being a big one. Now those traitors have apparently occupied the high ground. Yet... we're still in Iraq. Why?...I'm waiting.

[patriotic9]

How many more GOD-NEGLECTED AMERICANS need to give sacrifice of their LIVES,LIMBS and BODY PARTS for the GOD-CHOSEN NON-AMERICAN EUROPEAN INVADERS IN PALESTINE.Bush had sent US troops to Iraq for bringing JESUS back to this world.Jesus didn't come back but the ISLAMIC RADICALISM has become so strong and powerfull like it was never before.All this on the cost of AMERICAN MONEY and AMERICAN LIVES.So that was the purpose of US invasion in IRAQ.To remove a SECULAR GOVT and to bring an EXTREMIST ISLAMIC SHIA radical into power who takes our TAX PAYED MONEY on the name of REBUILDING IRAQ to establish an EXTREMIST ISLMIC EMPIRE from IRAN in the EAST to LEBANON in the WEST so that SHIA according to their RADICAL RELIGIOUS IDEOLOGY kill all the so-called INFIDELS to help bringing their MESSIAH named IMAM AL MEHDI back in this world.
Why everything taught in the NON-SENSE,BASE LESS,RACIST,UNJUST and THOUSANDS OF YEARS OLD BACKWARD CHRISTIANITY has been proven flat wrong.If GOD really exist,why is he sleeping?Why it's the responsibility of AMERICANS to go through all the sufferings and why it's the job of FRENCH,DUTCH,etc to enjoy the real western life.

[bushrocks1]

Would I send my son to this war? You might ask would I send him to World War II? Or Vietnam? Maybe you would distinguish those conflicts and whether you would send your son to fight in them. But that question is misdirected in a very important way: I can't command my son to go to war. He has to make that choice. So the better question would be: would I volunteer to fight in Iraq, WW II, Vietnam? Would I volunteer to fight in any war? Respond if drafted? I don%u2019t know. I'm not equivocating, only addressing that it is a hypothetical. To a hypothetical, I can answer, sure I'd fight. But I have nightmares of battle (from my past life as a Jacobite). So how do I feel toward those who do volunteer? Impressed and maturely knowing that many things go into their decision. But I do strongly believe that a country that can't find those men is doomed. The fact that we can find them is one reason why I say there is no failure in Iraq. Objectively, I also believe it for other reasons. An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East is a bold, brilliant, noble effort, facing a high chance of failure. That's why I greatly respect and admire those who have made the attempt--the Bush administration. They have been resolute, something I have not seen in my lifetime. They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front being a big one. Now those traitors have apparently occupied the high ground. Yet... we're still in Iraq. Why?...I'm waiting.

[roger_inkart]

I opposed this war before the first shot was fired. I suspected Saddam's weapons arsenal was nowhere near where the administration claimed it was. I thought the US military would get bogged down in a guerilla war it could win, much as it did in Vietnam. I can take no satisfaction in being right about these things, but I hope those that were wrong would at least have the guts to admit it. The nation needs to support plans to bring the US soldiers home and soon. It's ok to be wrong. It's not ok to be wrong and not be able to admit it, costing more and more blood and money.

[tj1504]

Would I send my son to this war? You might ask would I send him to World War II? Or Vietnam? Maybe you would distinguish those conflicts and whether you would send your son to fight in them. But that question is misdirected in a very important way: I can't command my son to go to war. He has to make that choice. So the better question would be: would I volunteer to fight in Iraq, WW II, Vietnam? Would I volunteer to fight in any war? Respond if drafted? I don%u2019t know. I'm not equivocating, only addressing that it is a hypothetical. To a hypothetical, I can answer, sure I'd fight. But I have nightmares of battle (from my past life as a Jacobite). So how do I feel toward those who do volunteer? Impressed and maturely knowing that many things go into their decision. But I do strongly believe that a country that can't find those men is doomed. The fact that we can find them is one reason why I say there is no failure in Iraq. Objectively, I also believe it for other reasons. An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East is a bold, brilliant, noble effort, facing a high chance of failure. That's why I greatly respect and admire those who have made the attempt--the Bush administration. They have been resolute, something I have not seen in my lifetime. They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front being a big one. Now those traitors have apparently occupied the high ground. Yet... we're still in Iraq. Why?...I'm waiting.

[tj1504]

Would I send my son to this war? You might ask would I send him to World War II? Or Vietnam? Maybe you would distinguish those conflicts and whether you would send your son to fight in them. But that question is misdirected in a very important way: I can't command my son to go to war. He has to make that choice. So the better question would be: would I volunteer to fight in Iraq, WW II, Vietnam? Would I volunteer to fight in any war? Respond if drafted? I don%u2019t know. I'm not equivocating, only addressing that it is a hypothetical. To a hypothetical, I can answer, sure I'd fight. But I have nightmares of battle (from my past life as a Jacobite). So how do I feel toward those who do volunteer? Impressed and maturely knowing that many things go into their decision. But I do strongly believe that a country that can't find those men is doomed. The fact that we can find them is one reason why I say there is no failure in Iraq. Objectively, I also believe it for other reasons. An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East is a bold, brilliant, noble effort, facing a high chance of failure. That's why I greatly respect and admire those who have made the attempt--the Bush administration. They have been resolute, something I have not seen in my lifetime. They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front being a big one. Now those traitors have apparently occupied the high ground. Yet... we're still in Iraq. Why?...I'm waiting.

[grazinggoat]

Stay the course, bushrots1,
here's another one for you..., thanks arthurcl1, with all my respects for copyrights ;)
More Body Bags for Bush! He wanted to go it alone in Irag! No weapons of mass destruction found. A big Lie to the American People just for his Oil Buddys to be able to mine for more oil. No reconstruction going on for the people and civil war raging! Another Vietnam where Bush, Rumsfield, and Cheney have us. "Stay the Course, We will be Victorious". It's getting old fast for them to keep saying that.

[grazinggoat]

bushrots1,
here's another one for you..., thanks arthurcl1, with all my respects for copyrights ;)
More Body Bags for Bush! He wanted to go it alone in Irag! No weapons of mass destruction found. A big Lie to the American People just for his Oil Buddys to be able to mine for more oil. No reconstruction going on for the people and civil war raging! Another Vietnam where Bush, Rumsfield, and Cheney have us. "Stay the Course, We will be Victorious". It's getting old fast for them to keep saying that.

[arthurcl1]

TJ READ the comments in full on this page by Agnim,roach9703,marcodele. I am not the only one saying this and Freedom of Speech reigns! Why do you think Bush lost all his Republican Support in House and Senate! Because the American People are stating the same thing! They are all tired of this war going nowhere!

[arthurcl1]

More Body Bags for Bush! He wanted to go it alone in Irag! No weapons of mass destruction found. A big Lie to the American People just for his Oil Buddys to be able to mine for more oil. No reconstruction going on for the people and civil war raging! Another Vietnam where Bush, Rumsfield, and Cheney have us. "Stay the Course, We will be Victorious". It's getting old fast for them to keep saying that.

[bushrocks1]

Would I send my son to this war? You might ask would I send him to World War II? Or Vietnam? Maybe you would distinguish those conflicts and whether you would send your son to fight in them. But that question is misdirected in a very important way: I can't command my son to go to war. He has to make that choice. So the better question would be: would I volunteer to fight in Iraq, WW II, Vietnam? Would I volunteer to fight in any war? Respond if drafted? I don%u2019t know. I'm not equivocating, only addressing that it is a hypothetical. To a hypothetical, I can answer, sure I'd fight. But I have nightmares of battle (from my past life as a Jacobite). So how do I feel toward those who do volunteer? Impressed and maturely knowing that many things go into their decision. But I do strongly believe that a country that can't find those men is doomed. The fact that we can find them is one reason why I say there is no failure in Iraq. Objectively, I also believe it for other reasons. An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East is a bold, brilliant, noble effort, facing a high chance of failure. That's why I greatly respect and admire those who have made the attempt--the Bush administration. They have been resolute, something I have not seen in my lifetime. They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front being a big one. Now those traitors have apparently occupied the high ground. Yet... we're still in Iraq. Why?...I'm waiting.

[agnim]

""Stay the course" - Now it turns out even Rumsfeld didn't believe in that.

The emporer has no clothes.
Posted by marcodele at 11:44 AM : Dec 04, 2006"

Dam straight!

Instead of 'staying the course', the rat Rumsfeld jump the sinking ship in the Iraqi desert! LOL

[marcodele]

I guess Bush thinks if he can forbid any and all physical evidence of the bodies returning from Iraq, the American people won't notice the death toll.

"Stay the course" - Now it turns out even Rumsfeld didn't believe in that.

The emporer has no clothes.

[roach9703]

We have to face up to the fact that until Al-Qaeda in subdued and fully under control our troops are going have to be Iraq. We need to get help from other European nations to bring order into Iraq, NOW.

[agnim]

Bring the boys home from the Iraqi hell hole NOW!

Nothing over there in that god forsaken place is worth another American life or limb!

If mounting wasteful body bags are what it will take to finally awaken the still sleeping American minds to NOT 'stay the course', then by the devil they will get their body bags.

The maniac muslims and the other Semites and their silly supporters are not bothered by the murder and mayhem; since they see this violence and death as a means to maniacal martyrdom/the fulfillment of worthless biblical bull fantasies.

[grumpas]

Amen rharrin1!