Was Soldier's Coffin On Cart With Luggage?

Former Army Reservist Says Flag-Draped Casket Was On Airport Cart With Other Bags

(AP)  The Army is investigating a woman's claim that a soldier's flag-draped casket was placed in an airport baggage cart with other luggage while being transferred between airline flights.

"The Army is always concerned with treating all of our fallen comrades' remains with the utmost dignity and respect," spokesman Lt. Col. Kevin Arata said in a statement Thursday.

Cynthia Hoag, 56, a former Army reservist, said she was waiting for a flight at Rochester International Airport on Oct. 27 when she saw the coffin taken off a commercial flight along with passengers' luggage. A uniformed soldier accompanied the coffin as it was placed in a baggage car and transported to another flight, she said.

"At the very least, couldn't there have been a hearse to transport the fallen soldier?" Hoag asked in an essay in Tuesday's Democrat and Chronicle newspaper. "At the very least, couldn't there have been a group of soldiers to receive one of their own?

"It was a very sobering, sad experience for all of us," wrote Hoag, who said she witnessed the episode from a terminal window while waiting for a flight along with her sister-in-law and two friends. "Please don't let this happen again to any soldier. Let's not treat our fallen troops like baggage."

Her account prompted Monroe County's executive, Maggie Brooks, to write a letter of her own to the Pentagon, asking it to change the policy for transporting the coffins of war casualties.

A Pentagon spokeswoman, Cynthia Smith, said Hoag's description doesn't correlate with military procedure.

Remains of soldiers killed in Iraq are taken to Dover Air Force Base in Delaware, then usually flown to a soldier's home, Smith said. Military escorts accompany each flight and when a casket reaches the home area, it is met by an honor guard of two people and then transported to a funeral home, she said.

Airport director David Damelio disputed Hoag's claims, saying a coffin wouldn't fit into a cart loaded with luggage.

Calls to Hoag's home in Dansville, 50 miles south of Rochester, went unanswered Thursday.

[bushrocks1]

Would I send my son to this war? You might ask would I send him to World War II? Or Vietnam? Maybe you would distinguish those conflicts and whether you would send your son to fight in them. But that question is misdirected in a very important way: I can't command my son to go to war. He has to make that choice. So the better question would be: would I volunteer to fight in Iraq, WW II, Vietnam? Would I volunteer to fight in any war? Respond if drafted? I don%u2019t know. I'm not equivocating, only addressing that it is a hypothetical. To a hypothetical, I can answer, sure I'd fight. But I have nightmares of battle (from my past life as a Jacobite). So how do I feel toward those who do volunteer? Impressed and maturely knowing that many things go into their decision. But I do strongly believe that a country that can't find those men is doomed. The fact that we can find them is one reason why I say there is no failure in Iraq. Objectively, I also believe it for other reasons. An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East is a bold, brilliant, noble effort, facing a high chance of failure. That's why I greatly respect and admire those who have made the attempt--the Bush administration. They have been resolute, something I have not seen in my lifetime. They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front being a big one. Now those traitors have apparently occupied the high ground. Yet... we're still in Iraq. Why?...I'm waiting.

Not one of you has given any credit for the young uniformed Honor Guard that was present at the airport overseeing the transport of the coffin. They are trained to take care of these matters with the utmost respect. What Cynthia Hoag most likely saw was the coffin on a transport trailor that was being towed along side of another baggage cart, which from an angle could have appeared to part of the other trailer or appear to be a single baggage trailer. Someone posted the idea of a funeral hurse, this would be a secruity problem for airports as well as a danger to ground crews, and the funeral hurse driver as they are not trained or authorized to operate on the flightline with running aircraft

Agnim, I have read quite a few of your posts, I used to think highly of you as some of your posts were quite intellectual, however when you show disrespect toward the dead, that is where I draw the line, get a life........

[gramto7]

I'm quite sure the ramp workers would have sense enough to not try to put a coffin on a cart already 'full of luggage' as stated by Airport director David Damelio. They would have put the coffin on an empty cart and then used any addition room for luggage. I am not saying this is the right thing to do with the coffin, but it goes to show what an idiot Damelio is.

[firststate]

"Airport director David Damelio disputed Hoag's claims, saying a coffin wouldn't fit into a cart loaded with luggage." "American Ingenuity" is especially common among those who do physical labor for not much pay. The ramp workers are the ones who know what can fit, and where. If Mr. Damelio didn't ask these guys before he made that statement, he has a 50-50 chance of being wrong.

A former army reservist's comments about the actions she described are more likely the result paying more attention to the handling of a fellow soldier's remains. Her comment was more a plea for respect in the future than simply a complaint about the one act she witnessed. The remains of fallen military men and women are not just cargo or baggage. The national exposure of her comments may insure that the handling she described will not be repeated, even if it means a flight delay(s.)

Many of us disagree with almost everything about the war, but that's not the point here. We should appreciate and respect the warriors, even while hating the war. The men and women in Iraq are honoring the oath to which they swore upon entering the service. Their remains deserve the care that results from their well-earned respect.

[randalds]

To Bush and his buddies the deaths of our troops are just a side-effect of what they were trying to do, take over a major mid-east country. When people like Cheney look at this war our dead troops are just a cost of doing business that he's willing to pay, esp since very few of those of his and Bush's "class" are actually serving there. The war has been very successful for them as defense contractors have made billions and the oil companies that own the Republican party have never seen higher profits. The deaths of a few thousand of our young men and women, along with those of 100's of thousands of Iraqi civilians (who aren't god-fearing human beings anyway...right?) are a small price to pay to fatten their bank accounts.

[andrwsmom]

I agree that our soldiers be treated with respect above and beyond. What is bothering me is, it sounds to me that there have been some play on words within this article. Yes of course the coffin was removed from the cargo area of the plane, along with luggage...duh! Where else would you expect them to be? The article did not say that the coffin had luggage stacked on top of it and then transported.

[pudd54]

cart of hearse, I doubt he felt the difference, dead is dead

[tinker3478]

Anyone who doesn't believe this probably also doesn't believe that small bales of heroin were shipped from Viet Nam to the US in the abdominal cavities of the military dead. It doesn't make it any less true and you don't have to believe me: look at Stanley Karnow or Bernard Fall's books on Viet Nam.

[santo_marco]

Another Democratic plot to deface the name of our military through a pseudo-patriotic cry. So ignorant and so twisted, is she. As an active duty member of the armed forces and dealing with decedent affairs in the past...it sounds as though she did see a military coffin being accompanied by one uniformed member, which is standard. The only dramatically exaggerated detail was that the casket was being transported by a baggage cart. Ridiculous. It was probably transported by an airport cargo vehicle of some sort while within the confines of a non-military airport. Once the casket is in the possession of the deceased members's family, it will receieve a full honors and ceremony from an appinted color guard. People like this lady need to just go away.

[gramto7]

antoniorego wrote:
It will all come out that she was lying in order to get her essay published. A coffin will NOT fit on a luggage cart. She is one sick B-I-T-C-H.

If you will note, the article stated the casket was on a baggage cart. It did not say that the cart was full of of luggage. Only the dude trying to hide the fault of the airport stated that it wouldn't fit on a "cart full of luggage". Most of us have seen those carts. They would indeed hold a casket!

[firststate]

It would be another in a long line of maltreatment afforded to our finest. The war is nuts, but our soldiers can never be shown too much respect, especially any who have given their lives in service to our country. That person has given more than any of us able to post can claim.

Some of these guys probably disagreed with the war, but they observed the oath they took when they joined.

[jn122736]

alphaa10 Said,...Ever heard of the oral tradition? That has worked for thousands of years to record and codify a people's experience. With America the oldest democracy, it is time we begin one of our own. No tales around the campfire, but an honest witness by example to our children and grandchildren of what we believe-- they are desperate for the counsel.

There are many posters on this site, like yourself, who give me hope that we can indeed again communicate the unvarnished truth between ourselves.
This is not exactly oral communication but it is very close to the same thing including, being refreshingly open.

[alphaa10-2009]

jn12273 said, "The greatest threat posed here is that they may never be held accountable. Which in turn makes it almost certain to be repeated in the future by them or others."
----

Ever heard of the oral tradition? That has worked for thousands of years to record and codify a people's experience. With America the oldest democracy, it is time we begin one of our own. No tales around the campfire, but an honest witness by example to our children and grandchildren of what we believe-- they are desperate for the counsel.

Bush will suffer the pains of the damned, because-- left to himself-- none is equipped better than he to understand his own failure, especially the loss, pain, injury and death he caused others. As with most of us, his biggest obstacle in that journey back is himself.

Ever the unprincipled opportunist, Bush will try to reinvent himself for the neocons and other opportunists of his party. For the true conservatives he misrepresented and deceived, Bush will remain a pariah for a while-- at least until the hungrier conservatives yearn again for White House power. And then, the old game will start, once again.

As we survivors of this misspent six years attend to our future, we must engage with enemies of America whenever we meet a false or misleading doctrine. This means a relentless effort to make sure democracy thrives in our neighborhoods and cities. If we cannot witness for democracy at home, how can we expect to matter when national events overtake us?

[randalds]

If it did happen then there is no excuse for it. None whatsoever.

[icorus]

I don't think what was seen by the woman in question is true. I was a combat medic for 12 years in the army and part of a honor guard that did funerals in the Army. I have never,ever heard of such treatment of our fallen troops, as a matter of fact Im sure there is a regulation against it.....If it's anyone's fault it's the airport personel....don't blame the commander or the Army for such a blunder.....Wake up America

[jn122736]

This administration has wantonly and even illegally exploited anything and everything from the constitution to the honor and integrity of our military to maintain their grip on power.

From using the term.. Supporting our troops%u2026 as a weapon against their opponents to castigating medal winning soldiers or even the mother of a fallen soldier or indeed anyone who would dare oppose them%u2026 All this from those who used everything in their power to avoid serving personally.

The enormity and extent of their abuses over the past 6 years have resulted in these things being viewed as normal by the general public
%u2026The greatest threat posed here is that they may never be held accountable. Which in turn makes it almost certain to be repeated in the future by them or others.

[alphaa10-2009]

FritzAlvarez said, "Please open your mind a bit. This is not about dead bodies. It is about the living. it's about culture and society... Please understand that special treatment is a part of the concept of honor. Even gangs have theories of honor, for God's sake."
----

Well said. I might remind you, however, your indignation at poster Agnim falls upon his self-deafened ears, his own attempt at a Triple Monkey Defense (eyes covered, ears covered and mouth covered). Despite his best effort, however, Agnim's figurative mouth fell open at last, revealing the smug cinder of pride which is somehow left to him.

Agnim is a "scientist", and with his science, Agnim has chosen to annihilate his own humanity. If we are confused or even amused at the conceit, that irritates Agnim. After all, his own fierce, professional-grade weltschmertz is what drives him to respond. Some might call this a personal hell of absurdity-- whatever you say about yourself is true, and equally meaningless.

In his misled spirit, Agnim elsewhere attempted a defense of the assassination of Alexandr Litvinenko, on the rationale Litvinenko once had been a peer of his in moral outlook, if nothing else. What agitates Agnim to despair is when others recognize Litvinenko became a symbol for something better than himself, and a courageous, patriotic witness for democratic reform in Russia.

[alphaa10-2009]

The Authorization for the Use of Military Force--- Take Away the Car Keys
Dead soldiers on the baggage loading ramp? What could explain such casual, off-handed treatment from the same Bush administration which prohibits photos of coffins arriving at Dover AFB? This shocking juxtaposition has nothing to do with official respect-- it has everything to do with an orchestrated effort to keep the cost of the Iraq war as hidden as possible from the American people..

The virtual press blackout of military funerals and severely wounded amputees and burn victims in VA trauma units is an unwitting part of that effort to deceive, because only such graphic and awful coverage brings the Iraq war home in its deeply troubling political cost.

Politicians, above all, realize the power of Hollywood-- of media spin, waving flags, cheering crowds and rousing symbolism. Emotional appeals drive Americans into war as surely as they did Nazi-era Germans. Americans especially love simple wars. They loved Reagan when he invaded Grenada and suffered not even a scratch, and when Bush, Sr., offered an encore, shooting up Panama with righteous indignation, allegedly in search of Noriega. After all, this is the way Hollywood always said wars should be won.

[alphaa10-2009]

Take Away the Car Keys-- 2
But let Americans discover the lethal and tragic aftermath of six years of politically-misbegotten Bush politics in Washington, and they leap to the warpath. Above all, Americans feel cheated and misled, as the last election brought home to Bush all too well.

The deep malaise at having been misled about Iraq comes from revelations of not only official corruption, but an effort to deceive at the most fundamental level. The tragic drama of Iraq is not over until all the false stage props of official deception are put away for good. Chief among the props is the AUMF (Authorization for the Use of Military Force)-- the celebrated congressional document Bush always cites as the justification for his having waged war on Iraq, but without a declaration of war. That Bush rationale is a brazen fraud and illegal act, but remains within his official reach until the AUMF is withdrawn or tightly redefined by Congress.

[alphaa10-2009]

Take Away the Car Keys-- 3
The AUMF was passed immediately after 911. That authorization for use of military force was issued against international terrorists, but not against Iraq either literally or figuratively, and Iraq is found nowhere in its text. Yet Bush ran through the AUMF like a political credit card, and lied shamelessly about his authority when he wanted to invade Iraq.

At the risk of another Iraq-- say, an impromptu invasion of Iran-- Congress needs desperately to rein in Bush, the opportunist demagogue who mistrued his authority, pretending the AUMF is a blank check from Congress. The AUMF legislation, written in the white-hot aftermath of 911, is embarrassingly amorphous and all the more open to abuse. The AUMF needs to be abolished, or at least tightly redefined to prevent any president from exceeding his Constitutional war powers, and waging war without full, deliberate consent of Congress.

Congress must be roused to its full responsibility-- ultimately , it was a failure by Congress to rein in the Bush executive which led to Iraq. That failure of due diligence came from GOP dominance of all three branches of government, yet another argument for a truly multiparty political system.