U.N. Extends Iraq Mandate

Security Council Authorizes 160,000-Member Multinational Force To Stay Another Year

(CBS/AP)  The U.N. Security Council voted unanimously Tuesday to extend the mandate of the 160,000-member multinational force in Iraq.

The council acted quickly in response to a request from Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, who said a top government priority is to assume full responsibility for security and stability in the country — but that it needs more time.

The resolution, drafted by the United States, extends the mandate of the multinational force for one year starting on Dec. 31 and authorizes a review at the request of the Iraqi government or by June 15.

The resolution contains the same provision as past resolutions — a commitment that the council "will terminate this mandate earlier if requested by the government of Iraq."

Al-Maliki's request for the one-year extension with a termination clause came as the Bush administration stepped up diplomatic efforts to stabilize the country.

In other developments:

U.S. troops fought with suspected insurgents in Ramadi on Tuesday, and the battle left six Iraqis dead, including five girls ranging in age from an infant to teenagers, the U.S. military said. The fighting began after a coalition patrol discovered a roadside bomb in the Hamaniyah section of Ramadi, and two men fled to a house, where they took up positions on the roof, the military said. As coalition forces removed the bomb, the suspected insurgents opened fire on the U.S. troops, who fought back with machine guns and tanks, the statement said. One of the gunmen may have been wounded and removed from the scene by other militants, the statement said, adding that there were no coalition casualties.

Iraq's Shiite militia has received training from the Iranian-sponsored group Hezbollah, a senior U.S. intelligence official told The New York Times. Between 1,000 and 2,000 members of the Mahdi army, composed of Iraqi Shiites led by anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, were trained by Hezbollah fighters in Lebanon, the official said. Iran, along with Syria, has fostered the link between Iraqi Shiites and Hezbollah, the official said. The U.S. official's claim bolsters an observation made by a mid-level Mahdi commander, who said his militia sent 300 fighters to Lebanon. "They are the best-trained fighters in the Mahdi army," he told the Times this summer. Both the U.S. official and the Mahdi commander spoke on condition of anonymity.

Iranian supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei accused the United States of destabilizing Iraq through hired terrorists and former members of Saddam Hussein's regime. In a meeting with Iraqi President Jalal Talabani, Khamenei pledged that Iran would do all it can to use its influence among Iraq's Muslim Shiites to quell the violence in the country, according to a state television report. "The main reason for the current situation in Iraq is America's policies," the television quoted Khamenei as telling Talabani, who is on the final day of a two-day visit to Iran. Both Iran and Iraq are Shiite majority countries.

President Bush said Tuesday that sectarian violence rocking Iraq is not civil war but part of an al Qaeda plot using violence to goad Iraqi factions into attacking each other. "No question it's tough, no question about it," Mr. Bush said. "There's a lot of sectarian violence taking place, fomented in my opinion because of the attacks by al Qaeda causing people to seek reprisal."

The Washington Post reports that the U.S. military is no longer able to defeat insurgents in western Iraq or match al Qaeda's rising popularity, according to newly disclosed details from a classified Marine Corps intelligence report about the military's mission in Anbar province.

Iraq's Parliament voted unanimously Tuesday to extend Iraq's state of emergency for 30 more days, and suspected Sunni insurgents set off bombs that killed eight people and wounded 40 across the country. Lawmakers decided to continue the state of emergency that allows for a nighttime curfew and gives the government extra powers to make arrests without warrants and launch police and military operations. The measures have been renewed every month since they were first authorized in November 2004.

Two car bombs exploded Tuesday near a hospital morgue in Baghdad, killing three civilians and one policeman and wounding 19 civilians, a police officer said on condition of anonymity to protect his security. Insurgents kill many of the Iraqi security forces working with the U.S.-led coalition.


©MMVI, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. The Associated Press contributed to this report.

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Add a Comment See all 48 Comments

by November 27, 2006 8:02 AM PST

I guess after they hang him for the killing of 148 people in the Shia town of Dujail, they hang him again?

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by bluestardad November 27, 2006 9:36 AM PST

The Iraq Study Group, a bipartisan 10-member commission led by former Secretary of State James A. Baker III! NOT CREDIBLE, James Baker III defended the Saudi Government against the Survivors of 911. He is no American Statesman!

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by November 27, 2006 9:52 AM PST

hey CBS, why package all of these stories under one Headline? Got Lazy?

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by tinker3478 November 27, 2006 5:39 PM PST

Bushie is a nut-bucket too so it is a shame he is unable to do more than paste. His comments might be worthwhile.

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by mh4cbs1 November 27, 2006 11:59 PM PST

The George Bush legacy? He started a Civil War. Hundreds of Thousands of dead civilians. 3,000 dead US troops, thousands maimed. Hudreds of Billions of dollars wasted on War.

He lied to the American people to invade Iraq, a country that was NOT a threat and they knew it. Don't believe me? just read the PNAC position papers and you will understand that these NeoCon facists are unapologetic violent, milataristic imperialists. Read it in their own words, just Google "PNAC".

They used 9-11 as their Pearl Harbor (their words) to scare Americans into complacency. They LIED about Iraq, fabricated "intelligence". They knew that Iraq was NOT a threat. They invaded anyway, leaving Afghanistan and Osama to escape.

Impeach Bush? Obviously! But then JAIL BUSH, CHENEY and their treasonous gang of murdering thugs.

Do it in the name of every dead US soldier, every soldier with missing limbs, brain damage from IEDs. Do it for the hundreds of thousands dead Iraqi civilians.

The death and destruction unleashed by Bush and Cheney is 100 times the horror of Osama. Face the FACTS and JAIL BUSH.

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by searingtruth November 28, 2006 3:24 AM PST

"Death. I saw only death. And a promise from evil that death would soon subside."
SearingTruth

A Future of the Brave - www.searingtruth.com

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by grumpas November 28, 2006 9:55 AM PST

I don't believe anything that comes out of this Administration or it's military experts either anymore! They have lied to us far to many times already! As I see it, it's another Iraq fiasco in the making all over again! They are trying to lead us to believe that Iran is sponsoring terrorism in Iraq! So they can make there case once more for starting another war with Iran! There reasoning is very thinly veiled! As far as I can see this story is only propaganda! Designed by Bush to get people worked up!

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by vamecegr November 28, 2006 9:58 AM PST

Would I send my son to this war? You might ask would I send him to WW II? Or Vietnam? Maybe you would distinguish those conflicts and whether you would send your son to fight in them. But that question is misdirected in a very important way: I can't command my son to go to war. He has to make that choice. So the better question would be: would I volunteer to fight in Iraq, WW II, Vietnam? Would I volunteer to fight in any war? Respond if drafted? I don%u2019t know. I'm not equivocating, only addressing that it is a hypothetical. To a hypothetical, I can answer, sure I'd fight. But I have nightmares of battle (from my past life as a Jacobite). So how do I feel toward those who do volunteer? Impressed and maturely knowing that many things go into their decision. But I do strongly believe that a country that can't find those men is doomed. The fact that we can find them is one reason why I say there is no failure in Iraq. Objectively, I also believe it for other reasons. An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East is a bold, brilliant, noble effort, facing a high chance of failure. That's why I greatly respect and admire those who have made the attempt--the Bush administration. They have been resolute, something I have not seen in my lifetime. They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front being a big one.

SHURCH4TBITCH dont forget about me.... LoL

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by aeasus November 28, 2006 10:29 AM PST

Now here is some startling news flash....
Iran is backing a militia to destablize American interest!!
maybe they are still upset about this...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran
Regardless of this setback, the covert operation soon went into full swing, conducted from the US Embassy in Tehran under the leadership of Kermit Roosevelt, Jr.. Agents were hired to facilitate violence; and, as a result, protests broke out across the nation. Anti- and pro-monarchy protestors violently clashed in the streets, leaving almost three hundred dead. The operation was successful in triggering a coup, and within days, pro-Shah tanks stormed the capital and bombarded the Prime Minister's residence. Mossadegh surrendered, and was arrested on 19 August 1953. He was tried for treason.

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by frankly6 November 28, 2006 10:31 AM PST

If you find bushrocks1 constant spamming of these boards pointless and disruptive, just click on "report this comment" below his post and report it.

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by bob_burd November 28, 2006 10:38 AM PST

And who trained Hezbollah? Iran and Syria, who are now eager to "help out" in Iraq.

It is these two countries, along with the ever-odious al Qaeda, who have destabilized Iraq and the middle east, not America.

If America were to leave there now, the entire middle east region would be in trouble with Iran, Syria and al Qaeda having free run of the place. Several other regional nations, such as Jordan and the Saudis, realize that. Try and convince the typical man on the street, however, who run around howling "we give our blood and our souls for Allah! God is great....." blah blah blah.

Selah

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by getcentered November 28, 2006 10:47 AM PST

This war in Iraq is EXACTLY what the experts (the CIA, Pentagon) said it was going to be.

Fools rush in and that is what we did going into Iraq, so calling the people wanting this war stupid or arrogant fits the bill just fine.

GW Bush has nothing to do with the way the military is going to employ tactics, so DO NOT believe to him when he tells us he is going to do something about what is happening in Iraq.

The military commanders do not want unnecessary deaths, but right now, they are on the ground in Iraq, by order of the President. People are dying all around our troops and they cannot do much about it. They do not know why they are there, or why the people in Iraq started killing each other.

If the experts said it would be this way, why did we not take the time to create a better plan? I think I know part of the reasons: "politics". The party wanting this war needed it to BEGIN quickly or it might never come to pass.

How unfortunate for our brothers and sisters in the military that they can be wasted along side of Iraqi people without a known, true and just cause.

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by rsoxfan1123 November 28, 2006 10:53 AM PST

Iran is shiite controlled and is 90% shiite. the middle east is organized along religious lines more so than territorial. since Iraq's current governemnt that we put in power is shiite, it is a matter of time until they become Iran's ally. If Iran is our enemy, Iraq will be one day as well. that is the government our troops are losing limbs and lives to create, by the way. the last thing iran wants is a stable sunni government next door to them. with hussein in power (he was a sunni) it formed a balance of power between Iran and Iraq.

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by olebd November 28, 2006 10:54 AM PST

Well if this is true, ain't it great that the good old USA allows Hezbollah to operate charters across our country???

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by diverinnl November 28, 2006 11:09 AM PST

Where we failed in Iraq is by not inviting the moderate Governments in the Middle East to advise us in the development of a new government in Iraq. Had we brought in advisors from Qatar, Yemen, UAE, Kuwait, Oman, Jordan, etc., it would have given us much better insight on an effective new government AND added legitimacy to the new government. Talabani is working so hard at not being seeing as a western puppet, that he is in essence fueling a bad situation.

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by agnim November 28, 2006 11:10 AM PST

Instead of using its power, prestige, and influence to pacify the middle east by helping those violent clowns to find common ground, the US has foolishly allowed itself to be mindlessly mislead by Jewish selfishness.

Now we are making the region even more inflamed instead of less inflamed. It's a dam shame!

The Jews need to realize that unless they curb their selfishness and hateful ethnic cleansing and allow for sharing of the space with their fellow Semites who are also indigenous to the region, then they will again be blamed for yet another disaster of great magnitude.

As a result of conditioning to biblical bull, Americans continue to be dragged mindlessly and slavishly to destruction in the Middle East, in a vain attempt to save the 'chosen people'.

If their jehovah has not been able to save them, but instead seems to have made the Jews UNFRIENDLY, STUBBORN, and SELFISH about a piece of space that IS NOT theirs alone, then the US is wasting its time, and is creating problems for itself at home and abroad.

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by diverinnl November 28, 2006 11:10 AM PST

Hey bushrocks1:

It is a condition of your use of the Bulletin Boards and this Site that you do not:

9. Use the Services for the purposes of sending junk email, chain letters, duplicative or unsolicited messages or "spamming" or in connection with contests, surveys or pyramid schemes;

11. Interfere with another user's use and enjoyment of the Services or any other individual's user and enjoyment of similar services;

YOU HAVE BEEN REPORTED FOR SPAMMING

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by diverinnl November 28, 2006 11:26 AM PST

Agnim, could I get some clarification? You stated:

"The Jews need to realize that unless they curb their selfishness and hateful ethnic cleansing and allow for sharing of the space with their fellow Semites who are also indigenous to the region, then they will again be blamed for yet another disaster of great magnitude."

What other disaster of great magnitude are the Jews blamed for?

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by diverinnl November 28, 2006 11:38 AM PST

That is a good point Ozilot. Renewable energy sources benefit us financially as well as being beneficial to our environment. Unfortunately, the oil lobby has and has always had a HUGE influence in our government and I don't see a substantial federal push for investing in alternate energy research and development. It needs to get stronger than grass roots.

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by patriotic9 November 28, 2006 12:14 PM PST

That's why we went to Iraq.Saddam was not only sunni but also a SECULAR guy who had a CATHOLIC FOREING MINISTER and females in his cabinet.Also at the time of Saddam,it was mandatory for both boys and girls to go to schools and the IRAQIs used to be one of the best,doctors,scientists,etc in the middle east.Religious education were banned and EXTREMISTS used to be prosecuted.United States has removed SADDAM from power and as a result of DEMOCRACY those RADICAL EXTREMIST SHIAs have been brought into power who are dreaming for an EXTREMIST ISLAMIC EMPIRE form IRAN in the EAST to LEBANON in the WEST ruled under those AYATOLLAHs who call us THE GREATES SATAN.Most of the people in the MIDDLE EAST don't care about race or country but they do care about their religious affiliations.It's very clear that not only IRAQI SHIA insurgents were trained by HEZBOLLAH but HIZBOLLAH might also has got weapons from IRAQI SECURITY FORCE(I think other people also might have seen the news of so many weapons given to the IRAQI SECURITY FORCE by UNITED STATES are missing and unaccounted for)The only people who got benifited from this war are ISLAMIC RADICALS,ARAB OIL BUSINESSMEN and OIL COMPANY OWNERS in OUR COUNTRY.And what about OSAMA BEEN FORGOTTEN.Didn't we start this war to capture him DEAD or ALIVE?

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by agnim November 28, 2006 12:20 PM PST

If the biblically blinded US really want to help the 'chosen people', then we should help the Jews pay attention to the HUMANITY around them; because their jehovah will NEVER EVER be able to save the Jews from karma they continue to foolishly earn by their unending ethnic cleansing.

All the Semites can share the space, which they for idiotic reasons deem important to them.
Our role should be to help them find their common Semitic ground.

The US role should not be to mindlessly follow middle east maniacs to further threaten world peace.

Because of their historical focus on learning, the Jews are relatively smart people; and they are plying the lesser endowed Americans like a fiddle in a deadly opera with destructive global consequences.

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by pendragon679 November 28, 2006 12:33 PM PST

"What other disaster of great magnitude are the Jews blamed for?"

Uh...if I remember my basic theology correctly, Jesus was born of Jewish (Hebrew) parents. Therefore, the Jews can be blamed for a "disaster of great magnitude" called Christianity.

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by pendragon679 November 28, 2006 12:33 PM PST

bushrocks1, go home, please; your mommy's calling you.

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by diverinnl November 28, 2006 12:37 PM PST

Agnim, your points are, to put it bluntly, absurd. Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding you but are you actually trying to stipulate that the Jews are responsible for the past attempts on their own annihilation? The Egyptians, Romans, Nazi's, and Islamic extremists are not accountable for their attempts at mass extermination of an entire race of people?

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by bushrocks1 November 28, 2006 12:50 PM PST

Would I send my son to this war? You might ask would I send him to WW II? Or Vietnam? Maybe you would distinguish those conflicts and whether you would send your son to fight in them. But that question is misdirected in a very important way: I can't command my son to go to war. He has to make that choice. So the better question would be: would I volunteer to fight in Iraq, WW II, Vietnam? Would I volunteer to fight in any war? Respond if drafted? I don%u2019t know. I'm not equivocating, only addressing that it is a hypothetical. To a hypothetical, I can answer, sure I'd fight. But I have nightmares of battle (from my past life as a Jacobite). So how do I feel toward those who do volunteer? Impressed and maturely knowing that many things go into their decision. But I do strongly believe that a country that can't find those men is doomed. The fact that we can find them is one reason why I say there is no failure in Iraq. Objectively, I also believe it for other reasons. An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East is a bold, brilliant, noble effort, facing a high chance of failure. That's why I greatly respect and admire those who have made the attempt--the Bush administration. They have been resolute, something I have not seen in my lifetime. They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front being a big one. Now those traitors have apparently occupied the high ground. Yet... we're still in Iraq. Why?...I'm waiting.

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by vamecegr November 28, 2006 1:21 PM PST

Would I send my son to this war? You might ask would I send him to WW II? Or Vietnam? Maybe you would distinguish those conflicts and whether you would send your son to fight in them. But that question is misdirected in a very important way: I can't command my son to go to war. He has to make that choice. So the better question would be: would I volunteer to fight in Iraq, WW II, Vietnam? Would I volunteer to fight in any war? Respond if drafted? I don%u2019t know. I'm not equivocating, only addressing that it is a hypothetical. To a hypothetical, I can answer, sure I'd fight. But I have nightmares of battle (from my past life as a pansy democrat). So how do I feel toward those who do volunteer? Impressed and maturely knowing that many things go into their decision. But I do strongly believe that a country that can't find those men is doomed. The fact that we can find them is one reason why I say there is no failure in Iraq. Objectively, I also believe it for other reasons. An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East is a bold, brilliant, noble effort, facing a high chance of failure. That's why I greatly respect and admire those who have made the attempt--the Bush administration. They have been resolute, something I have not seen in my lifetime. They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front being a big one.
******** you sux. reading your words makes me want to puke

V/R

Reply to this comment

by vamecegr November 28, 2006 1:21 PM PST

Would I send my son to this war? You might ask would I send him to WW II? Or Vietnam? Maybe you would distinguish those conflicts and whether you would send your son to fight in them. But that question is misdirected in a very important way: I can't command my son to go to war. He has to make that choice. So the better question would be: would I volunteer to fight in Iraq, WW II, Vietnam? Would I volunteer to fight in any war? Respond if drafted? I don%u2019t know. I'm not equivocating, only addressing that it is a hypothetical. To a hypothetical, I can answer, sure I'd fight. But I have nightmares of battle (from my past life as a pansy democrat). So how do I feel toward those who do volunteer? Impressed and maturely knowing that many things go into their decision. But I do strongly believe that a country that can't find those men is doomed. The fact that we can find them is one reason why I say there is no failure in Iraq. Objectively, I also believe it for other reasons. An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East is a bold, brilliant, noble effort, facing a high chance of failure. That's why I greatly respect and admire those who have made the attempt--the Bush administration. They have been resolute, something I have not seen in my lifetime. They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front being a big one.
******** you sux. reading your words makes me want to puke

V/R

Reply to this comment

by agnim November 28, 2006 1:23 PM PST

"...are you actually trying to stipulate that the Jews are responsible for the past attempts on their own annihilation?"

diverinnl at 12:37 PM : Nov 28, 2006

Those who are responsible for attempts at Jewish annihilation ARE RESPONSIBLE for their actions!
There should be no doubt about that.

That was why I used the word "German and evil European", say. It is ALWAYS evil to murder and mass humans, ALWAYS!

However, even the Jews have it clearly written in their writings,

"What you sow you shall surely reap".
That is the Law of Karma, which is ALWAYS in force, even for those who delude themselves that they are somehow a 'chosen people'.

Fortunately for us, the Jews have kept hundreds of generations of their history, from which we can see the clear pattern of their 'sowing and reaping'.

Coming out of Egypt the Jews ethnically cleansed the region to create their first israel.
That was the Jewish 'sowing seeds' of ethnic cleansing, which they will eventually 'reap' later.

The Jews were later ethnically cleansed from the region by the Babylonians, Persians, Romans, say. That was the 'reaping' from the 'seeds' of ethnic cleansing 'seeds' sown earlier by the Jews.

This IS NOT to say that what the Persians, Babylonians, Romans, Europeans did to the Jews was right. No!

However, right or wrong, the wheel of KARMA turns!'

Reply to this comment

by agnim November 28, 2006 1:26 PM PST

And yes, Driver, the maniac muslims also are getting their comeuppance for their destructiveness in spreading their islamic insanity. Get it?

The Big Picture is quite simple, really.
No one escapes the fruits of past 'seeds sown'. LOL

The US can help put an end to the millennial-old cycles of Middle East vengeance and violence by helping ALL the Semites to find common ground; since they are ALL indigenous to the area.

Reply to this comment

by agnim November 28, 2006 1:31 PM PST

"People like you use others to fight there wars"

FARTKNOCKER2 at 12:54 PM : Nov 28, 2006

Agnim has no wars to fight, guy. LOL

Considering that we only have a few short decades on this Earth, I find the killing of fellow humans to be not to my liking, and a total waste of my valuable time/energy/resources.

Reply to this comment

by diverinnl November 28, 2006 2:27 PM PST

Agnim, I have read your posts 4 times trying to capture a valid point but I just don't see it. I am so completely dumbfounded by your obvious misunderstanding of world history that I just don't know how to respond.

Reply to this comment

by patriotic9 November 28, 2006 2:55 PM PST

diverinnl
You don't understand Agnim's point because you don't want to.If you do accepts his points to be valid,you will have to denounce BIBLE and BIBLICAL PROPHECIES which have resulted in the lost of so many lives for giving favors to one very small group of people in the world by considering them GOD-CHOSEN and discriminating rest of entire humanity by considering them GOD-NEGLECTED.Can you explain one simple thing not to me but to your own self.Why the entire humanity has not been promised a SINGLE PENNY from GOD and why the EUROPEAN INVADERS IN PALESTINE have been promised a LAND IN THE MIDDLE EAST?Why this discrimination against the entire HUMANITY is LEGITIMATE and JUSTIFIED.If BIBLE is really a book of GOD then why BIBLE has been proven FLAT WRONG?BIBLE says GOD BLESS THOSE WHO BLESS ISRAEL.GOD CURSE THOSE WHO CURSE ISRAEL.Why my fellow Americans whose tax money had BLESSED the SO-CALLED ISRAELIS were jumping from 100th level of WORLD TRADE CENTER on 9/11.Was that a blessing?Why those SAUDIs who teach their kids that JEWS are PIGS and APES are getting richer every day.Why the IRAQ INVASION didn't bring JESUS back in the world which was the main goal and why Iraqi invasion has made MUSLIM TERRORISTS so strong and powerful like they were never before?

Reply to this comment

by diverinnl November 28, 2006 3:40 PM PST

Patriotic9, you seem to have read a different Bible than I did. You are so far and away from what is in the Bible that debating Christian philosophy with you is probably pointless. Where I will digress is that there have been many wars, such as the Crusades, fought on the context of spreading Christianity. Just as Jihad is the destruction of all infidels. Those examples though are caused by mans selfish interpretation of scripture rather than literal meaning. The Bible you refer to, at least in the New Testament, does not call for wars of man against man in any way.

Reply to this comment

by patriotic9 November 28, 2006 4:03 PM PST

diverinnl
I really apreciate your comments.We need people like you to tell the warmonger BIBLE BASHING people like PET ROBERSTON and JOHN HAGEE who had supported Iraq invasion because they were thinking that invasion in IRAQ will help the 2nd coming of CHRIST.Also,if we look at all the sufferings of the people of UNITED STATES and 9/11 attack,the main cause seems to be the UNITED STATES support to those EUROPEANS who were brought into PALESTINE after WWII to occupy the land of PALESTINIAN people by force.All those who want to support the concept of HUMAN BEINGS being GOD-CHOSEN or GOD-NEGLECTED and that's why to be treated differently on the basis of their GOD-CHOSEN or GOD-NEGLECTED RACES,always refer from BIBLE.Religions have always been used by some people to rule and fool rest of the population.Whenever two groups fight on the name of religion ,there is always a third person who takes the financial advantage of the situation.I don't care who follows what religion or who worship whatever god in whatever way.I just don't want to see people fighting against each other and killing each other.I can't explain how sad I feel to hear the news of anybody to get killed on the name of GOD and GOD(even if he really exist,I don't know that)can't come infront of the people and say that this guy is wrong,I never said to kill some body on my name or to occupy somebody's land on my name or to bulldozed somebody's house with women,elderly and children inside on my name.

Reply to this comment

by diverinnl November 28, 2006 4:41 PM PST

Patriotic9, I'm with you on taking issue with the religious right touting the war in Iraq is somehow Gods work. In no way do I believe that it is. Mans war against man, especially in the name of God goes against every Christian principle that I was ever taught. If I understand the Koran correctly, and I do not profess to be an expert, the principles of peace and love are very much the same. The Christian Bible even warns us about men preaching war and hate in the name of God as being "false prophets".

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by pakaal November 28, 2006 5:05 PM PST

Wow, I'll bet this is the first time in the Bush Administration's history that they've been glad to work with the UN.

With this "stamp of legitimacy" the US can now say 'See, even the UN agrees we have to stay!' Good politicking. My only question is whether al-Maliki is toeing the Bush line, or does he actually think another year of US troop presence will help, when even his own people - the Iraqi populace - think is making the situation worse.

Reply to this comment

by bushrocks1 November 28, 2006 5:07 PM PST

Would I send my son to this war? You might ask would I send him to World War II? Or Vietnam? Maybe you would distinguish those conflicts and whether you would send your son to fight in them. But that question is misdirected in a very important way: I can't command my son to go to war. He has to make that choice. So the better question would be: would I volunteer to fight in Iraq, WW II, Vietnam? Would I volunteer to fight in any war? Respond if drafted? I don%u2019t know. I'm not equivocating, only addressing that it is a hypothetical. To a hypothetical, I can answer, sure I'd fight. But I have nightmares of battle (from my past life as a Jacobite). So how do I feel toward those who do volunteer? Impressed and maturely knowing that many things go into their decision. But I do strongly believe that a country that can't find those men is doomed. The fact that we can find them is one reason why I say there is no failure in Iraq. Objectively, I also believe it for other reasons. An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East is a bold, brilliant, noble effort, facing a high chance of failure. That's why I greatly respect and admire those who have made the attempt--the Bush administration. They have been resolute, something I have not seen in my lifetime. They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front being a big one. Now those traitors have apparently occupied the high ground. Yet... we're still in Iraq. Why?...I'm waiting.

Reply to this comment

by diverinnl November 28, 2006 5:11 PM PST

Pakaal, I really think al-Maliki is doing everything he can NOT to toe the Bush line. He is trying everything he can to be seen as legitimate by his peers in the region. I can't say that I blame him and UN presence does add a sense of legitimacy to the war. By talking with Iran, he showed a cold shoulder to Bush that probably went a long way for him politically.

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by pakaal November 28, 2006 5:13 PM PST

If you're tired of seeing the same comment for the past ten days from bushrocks1 (and now under an alias VEMECEGR), please do what I do and click on "report this comment" under the message and report him. After the first day, it isn't commenting any more, it's spamming....

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by pakaal November 28, 2006 5:18 PM PST

diverinnl, if that's true, you're saying al-Maliki thinks Iraq needs the US presence. I really wonder if we're helping over there, and a lot of Iraqis think we aren't. Not to say majority rules or anything, but it seems like his people would know best, since they have to deal with the problems on the ground daily.

I do think he's done well by looking for dialogue with Iran and Syria, though. Bush should have seen this coming. Push a few people into a corner, of course they're going to get together.

Reply to this comment

by diverinnl November 28, 2006 5:24 PM PST

al-Maliki does need the US presence at this point. Without us, the pressure from the Shiite majority governments in Syria and Iran would undoubtedly force an extreme secular government takeover in Iraq, just like in Iran. He does need to buck US policy from time to time to keep face however.
I'm going to make a prediction. Over the next 5 -7 days, you will see a substantial decrease in the amount of Shiite violence in Iraq. If you do see an increase, it will be by Sunni extremists. This, in my opinion, is due to al-Maliki directly with Iran.

Reply to this comment

by diverinnl November 28, 2006 5:26 PM PST

Correction:

This, in my opinion, is due to al-Maliki directly with Iran.

Should read - This, in my opinion, is due to al-Maliki talking directly with Iran.

Reply to this comment

by pakaal November 28, 2006 5:52 PM PST

Interesting thoughts, diverinnl. Granted the Iraqi govt. is not in a position to defend themselves against neighboring countries without us being involved at this point. I wonder how much involvement Iran could have in Iraqi politics right now though - they have a lot in common, but they also fought a bitter war only a couple decades ago.

Reply to this comment

by diverinnl November 28, 2006 6:20 PM PST

It's hard to predict how much direct influence Iran will have, specifically because of the war you mentioned (an awesome point by the way). I'm sure there are still strong feelings between the veterans, many of whom hold political positions in both Governments now. If Iraq ties to closely with Iran, they could be held up in the west as supporting terrorism. If they stand too far back, their Government looks like western puppets. It will be interesting to watch it unfold.

Reply to this comment

by getcentered November 28, 2006 8:23 PM PST

"bushrocks1" and "janem4" is as out of touch as the complete idiots that put us in the war in Iraq.

"An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East"
Bushrocks1, what is Israel? It is in the Middle East, is it not a democracy?

"They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front being a big one."

First of all the Bush Administration new plenty about what was going to happen if we went to war with Iraq, and with that knowledge what did they do? They sent way to few troops to begin with. When the majority of US war planners said it would take 300,000 to 400,000 troops, we sent only 140,000. Also, when it was time for diplomacy to get support from the world, our President and the most cursory and secretive administration in history took a bullies stance and ignored the opinions of many of our allies.

See, the fools wanting this war in Iraq needed it to begin quickly for POLITICAL REASONS ONLY. If we did not rush into going to war then the dissent in America (which is about half of us, "traitors") would have actually had a voice, and the war in Iraq might have never come to pass.

I WANT FAMILY OF MINE TO COME HOME ALIVE FROM IRAQ. I NEVER WANT CURSORY LEADERS PUTTING MY FAMILIY IN HARMS WAY, WHEN I DON'T KNOW WHY OR FOR DISPUTED REASONS.

Shame on Republicans for their lack of imagination, their poor performance as leaders and their willful ignorance when adapting policies that effect the lives of every American.

Reply to this comment

by sunshine_2 November 29, 2006 9:51 AM PST

diverinnl ...
"I can't say that I blame him and UN presence does add a sense of legitimacy to the war. By talking with Iran, he showed a cold shoulder to Bush that probably went a long way for him politically. "

As The Leader Of His Country what has he "Done" to protect the citizens who elected him? How many more innocent civilians will die, while he debates when or if the Militias will lay down their arms and discuss a Peaceful Solution?
With recent news that England, Poland and Canada planning to Remove their troops next year, Does This Elected Leader think he has till next Christmas to think about it? Maybe he does, since Bush does not believe in setting any dead lines or time tables.

Reply to this comment

by diverinnl November 29, 2006 11:26 AM PST

Sunshine_2, only time will tell if he is an effective leader. Currently, he is in a political posturing game, trying to find a middle ground between the west and the middle east. I'm not trying to take his side on this but I can understand that his is a difficult position to be in. The militias from either side are not going to settle down until they feel empowered in some way. I too would live for it to happen overnight but I don't expect anyone over there to hold hands and sing "Kum Ba Ya" for some time yet. Perhaps years.

Reply to this comment

by bushrocks1 November 29, 2006 1:17 PM PST

Would I send my son to this war? You might ask would I send him to World War II? Or Vietnam? Maybe you would distinguish those conflicts and whether you would send your son to fight in them. But that question is misdirected in a very important way: I can't command my son to go to war. He has to make that choice. So the better question would be: would I volunteer to fight in Iraq, WW II, Vietnam? Would I volunteer to fight in any war? Respond if drafted? I don%u2019t know. I'm not equivocating, only addressing that it is a hypothetical. To a hypothetical, I can answer, sure I'd fight. But I have nightmares of battle (from my past life as a Jacobite). So how do I feel toward those who do volunteer? Impressed and maturely knowing that many things go into their decision. But I do strongly believe that a country that can't find those men is doomed. The fact that we can find them is one reason why I say there is no failure in Iraq. Objectively, I also believe it for other reasons. An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East is a bold, brilliant, noble effort, facing a high chance of failure. That's why I greatly respect and admire those who have made the attempt--the Bush administration. They have been resolute, something I have not seen in my lifetime. They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front being a big one. Now those traitors have apparently occupied the high ground. Yet... we're still in Iraq. Why?...I'm waiting.

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I guess after they hang him for the killing of 148 people in the Shia town of Dujail, they hang him again?

[bluestardad]

The Iraq Study Group, a bipartisan 10-member commission led by former Secretary of State James A. Baker III! NOT CREDIBLE, James Baker III defended the Saudi Government against the Survivors of 911. He is no American Statesman!

hey CBS, why package all of these stories under one Headline? Got Lazy?

[tinker3478]

Bushie is a nut-bucket too so it is a shame he is unable to do more than paste. His comments might be worthwhile.

[mh4cbs1]

The George Bush legacy? He started a Civil War. Hundreds of Thousands of dead civilians. 3,000 dead US troops, thousands maimed. Hudreds of Billions of dollars wasted on War.

He lied to the American people to invade Iraq, a country that was NOT a threat and they knew it. Don't believe me? just read the PNAC position papers and you will understand that these NeoCon facists are unapologetic violent, milataristic imperialists. Read it in their own words, just Google "PNAC".

They used 9-11 as their Pearl Harbor (their words) to scare Americans into complacency. They LIED about Iraq, fabricated "intelligence". They knew that Iraq was NOT a threat. They invaded anyway, leaving Afghanistan and Osama to escape.

Impeach Bush? Obviously! But then JAIL BUSH, CHENEY and their treasonous gang of murdering thugs.

Do it in the name of every dead US soldier, every soldier with missing limbs, brain damage from IEDs. Do it for the hundreds of thousands dead Iraqi civilians.

The death and destruction unleashed by Bush and Cheney is 100 times the horror of Osama. Face the FACTS and JAIL BUSH.

[searingtruth]

"Death. I saw only death. And a promise from evil that death would soon subside."
SearingTruth

A Future of the Brave - www.searingtruth.com

[grumpas]

I don't believe anything that comes out of this Administration or it's military experts either anymore! They have lied to us far to many times already! As I see it, it's another Iraq fiasco in the making all over again! They are trying to lead us to believe that Iran is sponsoring terrorism in Iraq! So they can make there case once more for starting another war with Iran! There reasoning is very thinly veiled! As far as I can see this story is only propaganda! Designed by Bush to get people worked up!

[vamecegr]

Would I send my son to this war? You might ask would I send him to WW II? Or Vietnam? Maybe you would distinguish those conflicts and whether you would send your son to fight in them. But that question is misdirected in a very important way: I can't command my son to go to war. He has to make that choice. So the better question would be: would I volunteer to fight in Iraq, WW II, Vietnam? Would I volunteer to fight in any war? Respond if drafted? I don%u2019t know. I'm not equivocating, only addressing that it is a hypothetical. To a hypothetical, I can answer, sure I'd fight. But I have nightmares of battle (from my past life as a Jacobite). So how do I feel toward those who do volunteer? Impressed and maturely knowing that many things go into their decision. But I do strongly believe that a country that can't find those men is doomed. The fact that we can find them is one reason why I say there is no failure in Iraq. Objectively, I also believe it for other reasons. An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East is a bold, brilliant, noble effort, facing a high chance of failure. That's why I greatly respect and admire those who have made the attempt--the Bush administration. They have been resolute, something I have not seen in my lifetime. They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front being a big one.

SHURCH4TBITCH dont forget about me.... LoL

[aeasus]

Now here is some startling news flash....
Iran is backing a militia to destablize American interest!!
maybe they are still upset about this...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran
Regardless of this setback, the covert operation soon went into full swing, conducted from the US Embassy in Tehran under the leadership of Kermit Roosevelt, Jr.. Agents were hired to facilitate violence; and, as a result, protests broke out across the nation. Anti- and pro-monarchy protestors violently clashed in the streets, leaving almost three hundred dead. The operation was successful in triggering a coup, and within days, pro-Shah tanks stormed the capital and bombarded the Prime Minister's residence. Mossadegh surrendered, and was arrested on 19 August 1953. He was tried for treason.

[frankly6]

If you find bushrocks1 constant spamming of these boards pointless and disruptive, just click on "report this comment" below his post and report it.

[bob_burd]

And who trained Hezbollah? Iran and Syria, who are now eager to "help out" in Iraq.

It is these two countries, along with the ever-odious al Qaeda, who have destabilized Iraq and the middle east, not America.

If America were to leave there now, the entire middle east region would be in trouble with Iran, Syria and al Qaeda having free run of the place. Several other regional nations, such as Jordan and the Saudis, realize that. Try and convince the typical man on the street, however, who run around howling "we give our blood and our souls for Allah! God is great....." blah blah blah.

Selah

[getcentered]

This war in Iraq is EXACTLY what the experts (the CIA, Pentagon) said it was going to be.

Fools rush in and that is what we did going into Iraq, so calling the people wanting this war stupid or arrogant fits the bill just fine.

GW Bush has nothing to do with the way the military is going to employ tactics, so DO NOT believe to him when he tells us he is going to do something about what is happening in Iraq.

The military commanders do not want unnecessary deaths, but right now, they are on the ground in Iraq, by order of the President. People are dying all around our troops and they cannot do much about it. They do not know why they are there, or why the people in Iraq started killing each other.

If the experts said it would be this way, why did we not take the time to create a better plan? I think I know part of the reasons: "politics". The party wanting this war needed it to BEGIN quickly or it might never come to pass.

How unfortunate for our brothers and sisters in the military that they can be wasted along side of Iraqi people without a known, true and just cause.

[rsoxfan1123]

Iran is shiite controlled and is 90% shiite. the middle east is organized along religious lines more so than territorial. since Iraq's current governemnt that we put in power is shiite, it is a matter of time until they become Iran's ally. If Iran is our enemy, Iraq will be one day as well. that is the government our troops are losing limbs and lives to create, by the way. the last thing iran wants is a stable sunni government next door to them. with hussein in power (he was a sunni) it formed a balance of power between Iran and Iraq.

[olebd]

Well if this is true, ain't it great that the good old USA allows Hezbollah to operate charters across our country???

[diverinnl]

Where we failed in Iraq is by not inviting the moderate Governments in the Middle East to advise us in the development of a new government in Iraq. Had we brought in advisors from Qatar, Yemen, UAE, Kuwait, Oman, Jordan, etc., it would have given us much better insight on an effective new government AND added legitimacy to the new government. Talabani is working so hard at not being seeing as a western puppet, that he is in essence fueling a bad situation.

[agnim]

Instead of using its power, prestige, and influence to pacify the middle east by helping those violent clowns to find common ground, the US has foolishly allowed itself to be mindlessly mislead by Jewish selfishness.

Now we are making the region even more inflamed instead of less inflamed. It's a dam shame!

The Jews need to realize that unless they curb their selfishness and hateful ethnic cleansing and allow for sharing of the space with their fellow Semites who are also indigenous to the region, then they will again be blamed for yet another disaster of great magnitude.

As a result of conditioning to biblical bull, Americans continue to be dragged mindlessly and slavishly to destruction in the Middle East, in a vain attempt to save the 'chosen people'.

If their jehovah has not been able to save them, but instead seems to have made the Jews UNFRIENDLY, STUBBORN, and SELFISH about a piece of space that IS NOT theirs alone, then the US is wasting its time, and is creating problems for itself at home and abroad.

[diverinnl]

Hey bushrocks1:

It is a condition of your use of the Bulletin Boards and this Site that you do not:

9. Use the Services for the purposes of sending junk email, chain letters, duplicative or unsolicited messages or "spamming" or in connection with contests, surveys or pyramid schemes;

11. Interfere with another user's use and enjoyment of the Services or any other individual's user and enjoyment of similar services;

YOU HAVE BEEN REPORTED FOR SPAMMING

[diverinnl]

Agnim, could I get some clarification? You stated:

"The Jews need to realize that unless they curb their selfishness and hateful ethnic cleansing and allow for sharing of the space with their fellow Semites who are also indigenous to the region, then they will again be blamed for yet another disaster of great magnitude."

What other disaster of great magnitude are the Jews blamed for?

[diverinnl]

That is a good point Ozilot. Renewable energy sources benefit us financially as well as being beneficial to our environment. Unfortunately, the oil lobby has and has always had a HUGE influence in our government and I don't see a substantial federal push for investing in alternate energy research and development. It needs to get stronger than grass roots.

[patriotic9]

That's why we went to Iraq.Saddam was not only sunni but also a SECULAR guy who had a CATHOLIC FOREING MINISTER and females in his cabinet.Also at the time of Saddam,it was mandatory for both boys and girls to go to schools and the IRAQIs used to be one of the best,doctors,scientists,etc in the middle east.Religious education were banned and EXTREMISTS used to be prosecuted.United States has removed SADDAM from power and as a result of DEMOCRACY those RADICAL EXTREMIST SHIAs have been brought into power who are dreaming for an EXTREMIST ISLAMIC EMPIRE form IRAN in the EAST to LEBANON in the WEST ruled under those AYATOLLAHs who call us THE GREATES SATAN.Most of the people in the MIDDLE EAST don't care about race or country but they do care about their religious affiliations.It's very clear that not only IRAQI SHIA insurgents were trained by HEZBOLLAH but HIZBOLLAH might also has got weapons from IRAQI SECURITY FORCE(I think other people also might have seen the news of so many weapons given to the IRAQI SECURITY FORCE by UNITED STATES are missing and unaccounted for)The only people who got benifited from this war are ISLAMIC RADICALS,ARAB OIL BUSINESSMEN and OIL COMPANY OWNERS in OUR COUNTRY.And what about OSAMA BEEN FORGOTTEN.Didn't we start this war to capture him DEAD or ALIVE?

[agnim]

If the biblically blinded US really want to help the 'chosen people', then we should help the Jews pay attention to the HUMANITY around them; because their jehovah will NEVER EVER be able to save the Jews from karma they continue to foolishly earn by their unending ethnic cleansing.

All the Semites can share the space, which they for idiotic reasons deem important to them.
Our role should be to help them find their common Semitic ground.

The US role should not be to mindlessly follow middle east maniacs to further threaten world peace.

Because of their historical focus on learning, the Jews are relatively smart people; and they are plying the lesser endowed Americans like a fiddle in a deadly opera with destructive global consequences.

[pendragon679]

"What other disaster of great magnitude are the Jews blamed for?"

Uh...if I remember my basic theology correctly, Jesus was born of Jewish (Hebrew) parents. Therefore, the Jews can be blamed for a "disaster of great magnitude" called Christianity.

[pendragon679]

bushrocks1, go home, please; your mommy's calling you.

[diverinnl]

Agnim, your points are, to put it bluntly, absurd. Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding you but are you actually trying to stipulate that the Jews are responsible for the past attempts on their own annihilation? The Egyptians, Romans, Nazi's, and Islamic extremists are not accountable for their attempts at mass extermination of an entire race of people?

[bushrocks1]

Would I send my son to this war? You might ask would I send him to WW II? Or Vietnam? Maybe you would distinguish those conflicts and whether you would send your son to fight in them. But that question is misdirected in a very important way: I can't command my son to go to war. He has to make that choice. So the better question would be: would I volunteer to fight in Iraq, WW II, Vietnam? Would I volunteer to fight in any war? Respond if drafted? I don%u2019t know. I'm not equivocating, only addressing that it is a hypothetical. To a hypothetical, I can answer, sure I'd fight. But I have nightmares of battle (from my past life as a Jacobite). So how do I feel toward those who do volunteer? Impressed and maturely knowing that many things go into their decision. But I do strongly believe that a country that can't find those men is doomed. The fact that we can find them is one reason why I say there is no failure in Iraq. Objectively, I also believe it for other reasons. An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East is a bold, brilliant, noble effort, facing a high chance of failure. That's why I greatly respect and admire those who have made the attempt--the Bush administration. They have been resolute, something I have not seen in my lifetime. They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front being a big one. Now those traitors have apparently occupied the high ground. Yet... we're still in Iraq. Why?...I'm waiting.

[vamecegr]

Would I send my son to this war? You might ask would I send him to WW II? Or Vietnam? Maybe you would distinguish those conflicts and whether you would send your son to fight in them. But that question is misdirected in a very important way: I can't command my son to go to war. He has to make that choice. So the better question would be: would I volunteer to fight in Iraq, WW II, Vietnam? Would I volunteer to fight in any war? Respond if drafted? I don%u2019t know. I'm not equivocating, only addressing that it is a hypothetical. To a hypothetical, I can answer, sure I'd fight. But I have nightmares of battle (from my past life as a pansy democrat). So how do I feel toward those who do volunteer? Impressed and maturely knowing that many things go into their decision. But I do strongly believe that a country that can't find those men is doomed. The fact that we can find them is one reason why I say there is no failure in Iraq. Objectively, I also believe it for other reasons. An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East is a bold, brilliant, noble effort, facing a high chance of failure. That's why I greatly respect and admire those who have made the attempt--the Bush administration. They have been resolute, something I have not seen in my lifetime. They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front being a big one.
******** you sux. reading your words makes me want to puke

V/R

[vamecegr]

Would I send my son to this war? You might ask would I send him to WW II? Or Vietnam? Maybe you would distinguish those conflicts and whether you would send your son to fight in them. But that question is misdirected in a very important way: I can't command my son to go to war. He has to make that choice. So the better question would be: would I volunteer to fight in Iraq, WW II, Vietnam? Would I volunteer to fight in any war? Respond if drafted? I don%u2019t know. I'm not equivocating, only addressing that it is a hypothetical. To a hypothetical, I can answer, sure I'd fight. But I have nightmares of battle (from my past life as a pansy democrat). So how do I feel toward those who do volunteer? Impressed and maturely knowing that many things go into their decision. But I do strongly believe that a country that can't find those men is doomed. The fact that we can find them is one reason why I say there is no failure in Iraq. Objectively, I also believe it for other reasons. An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East is a bold, brilliant, noble effort, facing a high chance of failure. That's why I greatly respect and admire those who have made the attempt--the Bush administration. They have been resolute, something I have not seen in my lifetime. They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front being a big one.
******** you sux. reading your words makes me want to puke

V/R

[agnim]

"...are you actually trying to stipulate that the Jews are responsible for the past attempts on their own annihilation?"

diverinnl at 12:37 PM : Nov 28, 2006

Those who are responsible for attempts at Jewish annihilation ARE RESPONSIBLE for their actions!
There should be no doubt about that.

That was why I used the word "German and evil European", say. It is ALWAYS evil to murder and mass humans, ALWAYS!

However, even the Jews have it clearly written in their writings,

"What you sow you shall surely reap".
That is the Law of Karma, which is ALWAYS in force, even for those who delude themselves that they are somehow a 'chosen people'.

Fortunately for us, the Jews have kept hundreds of generations of their history, from which we can see the clear pattern of their 'sowing and reaping'.

Coming out of Egypt the Jews ethnically cleansed the region to create their first israel.
That was the Jewish 'sowing seeds' of ethnic cleansing, which they will eventually 'reap' later.

The Jews were later ethnically cleansed from the region by the Babylonians, Persians, Romans, say. That was the 'reaping' from the 'seeds' of ethnic cleansing 'seeds' sown earlier by the Jews.

This IS NOT to say that what the Persians, Babylonians, Romans, Europeans did to the Jews was right. No!

However, right or wrong, the wheel of KARMA turns!'

[agnim]

And yes, Driver, the maniac muslims also are getting their comeuppance for their destructiveness in spreading their islamic insanity. Get it?

The Big Picture is quite simple, really.
No one escapes the fruits of past 'seeds sown'. LOL

The US can help put an end to the millennial-old cycles of Middle East vengeance and violence by helping ALL the Semites to find common ground; since they are ALL indigenous to the area.

[agnim]

"People like you use others to fight there wars"

FARTKNOCKER2 at 12:54 PM : Nov 28, 2006

Agnim has no wars to fight, guy. LOL

Considering that we only have a few short decades on this Earth, I find the killing of fellow humans to be not to my liking, and a total waste of my valuable time/energy/resources.

[diverinnl]

Agnim, I have read your posts 4 times trying to capture a valid point but I just don't see it. I am so completely dumbfounded by your obvious misunderstanding of world history that I just don't know how to respond.

[patriotic9]

diverinnl
You don't understand Agnim's point because you don't want to.If you do accepts his points to be valid,you will have to denounce BIBLE and BIBLICAL PROPHECIES which have resulted in the lost of so many lives for giving favors to one very small group of people in the world by considering them GOD-CHOSEN and discriminating rest of entire humanity by considering them GOD-NEGLECTED.Can you explain one simple thing not to me but to your own self.Why the entire humanity has not been promised a SINGLE PENNY from GOD and why the EUROPEAN INVADERS IN PALESTINE have been promised a LAND IN THE MIDDLE EAST?Why this discrimination against the entire HUMANITY is LEGITIMATE and JUSTIFIED.If BIBLE is really a book of GOD then why BIBLE has been proven FLAT WRONG?BIBLE says GOD BLESS THOSE WHO BLESS ISRAEL.GOD CURSE THOSE WHO CURSE ISRAEL.Why my fellow Americans whose tax money had BLESSED the SO-CALLED ISRAELIS were jumping from 100th level of WORLD TRADE CENTER on 9/11.Was that a blessing?Why those SAUDIs who teach their kids that JEWS are PIGS and APES are getting richer every day.Why the IRAQ INVASION didn't bring JESUS back in the world which was the main goal and why Iraqi invasion has made MUSLIM TERRORISTS so strong and powerful like they were never before?

[diverinnl]

Patriotic9, you seem to have read a different Bible than I did. You are so far and away from what is in the Bible that debating Christian philosophy with you is probably pointless. Where I will digress is that there have been many wars, such as the Crusades, fought on the context of spreading Christianity. Just as Jihad is the destruction of all infidels. Those examples though are caused by mans selfish interpretation of scripture rather than literal meaning. The Bible you refer to, at least in the New Testament, does not call for wars of man against man in any way.

[patriotic9]

diverinnl
I really apreciate your comments.We need people like you to tell the warmonger BIBLE BASHING people like PET ROBERSTON and JOHN HAGEE who had supported Iraq invasion because they were thinking that invasion in IRAQ will help the 2nd coming of CHRIST.Also,if we look at all the sufferings of the people of UNITED STATES and 9/11 attack,the main cause seems to be the UNITED STATES support to those EUROPEANS who were brought into PALESTINE after WWII to occupy the land of PALESTINIAN people by force.All those who want to support the concept of HUMAN BEINGS being GOD-CHOSEN or GOD-NEGLECTED and that's why to be treated differently on the basis of their GOD-CHOSEN or GOD-NEGLECTED RACES,always refer from BIBLE.Religions have always been used by some people to rule and fool rest of the population.Whenever two groups fight on the name of religion ,there is always a third person who takes the financial advantage of the situation.I don't care who follows what religion or who worship whatever god in whatever way.I just don't want to see people fighting against each other and killing each other.I can't explain how sad I feel to hear the news of anybody to get killed on the name of GOD and GOD(even if he really exist,I don't know that)can't come infront of the people and say that this guy is wrong,I never said to kill some body on my name or to occupy somebody's land on my name or to bulldozed somebody's house with women,elderly and children inside on my name.

[diverinnl]

Patriotic9, I'm with you on taking issue with the religious right touting the war in Iraq is somehow Gods work. In no way do I believe that it is. Mans war against man, especially in the name of God goes against every Christian principle that I was ever taught. If I understand the Koran correctly, and I do not profess to be an expert, the principles of peace and love are very much the same. The Christian Bible even warns us about men preaching war and hate in the name of God as being "false prophets".

[pakaal]

Wow, I'll bet this is the first time in the Bush Administration's history that they've been glad to work with the UN.

With this "stamp of legitimacy" the US can now say 'See, even the UN agrees we have to stay!' Good politicking. My only question is whether al-Maliki is toeing the Bush line, or does he actually think another year of US troop presence will help, when even his own people - the Iraqi populace - think is making the situation worse.

[bushrocks1]

Would I send my son to this war? You might ask would I send him to World War II? Or Vietnam? Maybe you would distinguish those conflicts and whether you would send your son to fight in them. But that question is misdirected in a very important way: I can't command my son to go to war. He has to make that choice. So the better question would be: would I volunteer to fight in Iraq, WW II, Vietnam? Would I volunteer to fight in any war? Respond if drafted? I don%u2019t know. I'm not equivocating, only addressing that it is a hypothetical. To a hypothetical, I can answer, sure I'd fight. But I have nightmares of battle (from my past life as a Jacobite). So how do I feel toward those who do volunteer? Impressed and maturely knowing that many things go into their decision. But I do strongly believe that a country that can't find those men is doomed. The fact that we can find them is one reason why I say there is no failure in Iraq. Objectively, I also believe it for other reasons. An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East is a bold, brilliant, noble effort, facing a high chance of failure. That's why I greatly respect and admire those who have made the attempt--the Bush administration. They have been resolute, something I have not seen in my lifetime. They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front being a big one. Now those traitors have apparently occupied the high ground. Yet... we're still in Iraq. Why?...I'm waiting.

[diverinnl]

Pakaal, I really think al-Maliki is doing everything he can NOT to toe the Bush line. He is trying everything he can to be seen as legitimate by his peers in the region. I can't say that I blame him and UN presence does add a sense of legitimacy to the war. By talking with Iran, he showed a cold shoulder to Bush that probably went a long way for him politically.

[pakaal]

If you're tired of seeing the same comment for the past ten days from bushrocks1 (and now under an alias VEMECEGR), please do what I do and click on "report this comment" under the message and report him. After the first day, it isn't commenting any more, it's spamming....

[pakaal]

diverinnl, if that's true, you're saying al-Maliki thinks Iraq needs the US presence. I really wonder if we're helping over there, and a lot of Iraqis think we aren't. Not to say majority rules or anything, but it seems like his people would know best, since they have to deal with the problems on the ground daily.

I do think he's done well by looking for dialogue with Iran and Syria, though. Bush should have seen this coming. Push a few people into a corner, of course they're going to get together.

[diverinnl]

al-Maliki does need the US presence at this point. Without us, the pressure from the Shiite majority governments in Syria and Iran would undoubtedly force an extreme secular government takeover in Iraq, just like in Iran. He does need to buck US policy from time to time to keep face however.
I'm going to make a prediction. Over the next 5 -7 days, you will see a substantial decrease in the amount of Shiite violence in Iraq. If you do see an increase, it will be by Sunni extremists. This, in my opinion, is due to al-Maliki directly with Iran.

[diverinnl]

Correction:

This, in my opinion, is due to al-Maliki directly with Iran.

Should read - This, in my opinion, is due to al-Maliki talking directly with Iran.

[pakaal]

Interesting thoughts, diverinnl. Granted the Iraqi govt. is not in a position to defend themselves against neighboring countries without us being involved at this point. I wonder how much involvement Iran could have in Iraqi politics right now though - they have a lot in common, but they also fought a bitter war only a couple decades ago.

[diverinnl]

It's hard to predict how much direct influence Iran will have, specifically because of the war you mentioned (an awesome point by the way). I'm sure there are still strong feelings between the veterans, many of whom hold political positions in both Governments now. If Iraq ties to closely with Iran, they could be held up in the west as supporting terrorism. If they stand too far back, their Government looks like western puppets. It will be interesting to watch it unfold.

[getcentered]

"bushrocks1" and "janem4" is as out of touch as the complete idiots that put us in the war in Iraq.

"An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East"
Bushrocks1, what is Israel? It is in the Middle East, is it not a democracy?

"They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front being a big one."

First of all the Bush Administration new plenty about what was going to happen if we went to war with Iraq, and with that knowledge what did they do? They sent way to few troops to begin with. When the majority of US war planners said it would take 300,000 to 400,000 troops, we sent only 140,000. Also, when it was time for diplomacy to get support from the world, our President and the most cursory and secretive administration in history took a bullies stance and ignored the opinions of many of our allies.

See, the fools wanting this war in Iraq needed it to begin quickly for POLITICAL REASONS ONLY. If we did not rush into going to war then the dissent in America (which is about half of us, "traitors") would have actually had a voice, and the war in Iraq might have never come to pass.

I WANT FAMILY OF MINE TO COME HOME ALIVE FROM IRAQ. I NEVER WANT CURSORY LEADERS PUTTING MY FAMILIY IN HARMS WAY, WHEN I DON'T KNOW WHY OR FOR DISPUTED REASONS.

Shame on Republicans for their lack of imagination, their poor performance as leaders and their willful ignorance when adapting policies that effect the lives of every American.

[sunshine_2]

diverinnl ...
"I can't say that I blame him and UN presence does add a sense of legitimacy to the war. By talking with Iran, he showed a cold shoulder to Bush that probably went a long way for him politically. "

As The Leader Of His Country what has he "Done" to protect the citizens who elected him? How many more innocent civilians will die, while he debates when or if the Militias will lay down their arms and discuss a Peaceful Solution?
With recent news that England, Poland and Canada planning to Remove their troops next year, Does This Elected Leader think he has till next Christmas to think about it? Maybe he does, since Bush does not believe in setting any dead lines or time tables.

[diverinnl]

Sunshine_2, only time will tell if he is an effective leader. Currently, he is in a political posturing game, trying to find a middle ground between the west and the middle east. I'm not trying to take his side on this but I can understand that his is a difficult position to be in. The militias from either side are not going to settle down until they feel empowered in some way. I too would live for it to happen overnight but I don't expect anyone over there to hold hands and sing "Kum Ba Ya" for some time yet. Perhaps years.

[bushrocks1]

Would I send my son to this war? You might ask would I send him to World War II? Or Vietnam? Maybe you would distinguish those conflicts and whether you would send your son to fight in them. But that question is misdirected in a very important way: I can't command my son to go to war. He has to make that choice. So the better question would be: would I volunteer to fight in Iraq, WW II, Vietnam? Would I volunteer to fight in any war? Respond if drafted? I don%u2019t know. I'm not equivocating, only addressing that it is a hypothetical. To a hypothetical, I can answer, sure I'd fight. But I have nightmares of battle (from my past life as a Jacobite). So how do I feel toward those who do volunteer? Impressed and maturely knowing that many things go into their decision. But I do strongly believe that a country that can't find those men is doomed. The fact that we can find them is one reason why I say there is no failure in Iraq. Objectively, I also believe it for other reasons. An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East is a bold, brilliant, noble effort, facing a high chance of failure. That's why I greatly respect and admire those who have made the attempt--the Bush administration. They have been resolute, something I have not seen in my lifetime. They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front being a big one. Now those traitors have apparently occupied the high ground. Yet... we're still in Iraq. Why?...I'm waiting.