U.N.: 3,709 Iraqis Killed In October

Highest Monthly Civilian Toll Since War Started; Bush, Al-Maliki To Meet Next Week

(CBS/AP)  The U.N. figure for the number of killings in October was more than three times the 1,216 tabulated by The Associated Press and nearly 850 more than the 2,867 U.S. service members who have died during the war.

The U.N. report said Iraq's heavily armed and increasingly brutal Shiite militias were gaining strength and influence and that torture was rampant, despite the Iraqi government's vow to reduce human rights abuses.

"Hundreds of bodies continued to appear in different areas of Baghdad — handcuffed, blindfolded and bearing signs of torture and execution-style killing," said the report by the U.N. Assistance Mission for Iraq, or UNAMI. "Many witnesses reported that perpetrators wear militia attire and even police or army uniforms."

Wednesday's death count included 76 bodies found dumped in four cities, 59 of them in Baghdad alone, according to police, who said at least 25 people had been gunned down.

The two primary militias in Iraq are the military wings of the country's strongest Shiite political groups on which Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki is heavily dependent. He has repeatedly rejected U.S. demands that he disband the heavily armed groups, especially the Mahdi Army of radical anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.

"I think the type of violence is different in the past few months," Gianni Magazzeni, the UNAMI chief in Baghdad, told a news conference. "There was a great increase in sectarian violence in activities by terrorists and insurgents, but also by militias and criminal gangs."

He noted that religious clashes have been common since Sunni Arab insurgents bombed a major Shiite shrine on Feb. 22 in Samarra, north of Baghdad.

UNAMI's Human Rights Office continued to receive reports that Iraqi police and security forces have either been infiltrated by or act in collusion with militias, the report said.

It said that while sectarian violence is the main cause of the civilian killings, Iraqis also continue to be the victims of terrorist acts, roadside bombs and drive-by shootings, while some have been caught in the cross fire between rival gangs.

The U.N. said its figures for civilian deaths were based on reports from the Iraqi Health Ministry, the country's hospitals and the Medico-Legal Institute in Baghdad. The previous monthly record was 3,590 for July.

Iraqi government spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh called the U.N. report "inaccurate and exaggerated" because it was not based on official government reports.

Asked in a telephone interview if any such report existed, al-Dabbagh told the AP that one "was not available yet but it would be published later."

Access to the U.N. news conference was blocked for many because the main entrance to the Green Zone was closed as U.S. forces checked for a bomb in the area, a U.S. military official said on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to release the information.

The bomb attack on the motorcade of Speaker Mahmoud al-Mashhadani, a hard-line Sunni Arab nationalist reviled by many Shiites, was the fourth assassination attempt against a high-ranking Iraqi government official in recent days.

Last summer, Shiite and Kurdish parties organized an unsuccessful bid to oust al-Mashhadani as parliament speaker after he called the U.S. occupation of Iraq "the work of butchers."

On Nov. 1, al-Mashhadani had to be physically restrained from attacking a Sunni lawmaker. The speaker had been holding a nationally televised news conference when he lashed out at the legislator, Abdel-Karim al-Samarie, for alleged corruption and failure to attend sessions. He called him a "dog" — a deep insult in Iraq and other Arab societies.

At least 92 journalists have been killed in Iraq since the U.S.-led war began in March 2003, according to an Associated Press count, based on statistics kept by the New York-based Committee to Protect Journalists.

Thirty-six other media employees, including drivers, interpreters and guards, have been killed — all of them Iraqi except for one Lebanese.

The U.S. military reported the deaths of two U.S. soldiers Tuesday. One was killed by a roadside bomb and the other died from non-combat causes. So far this month, 49 American service members have been killed or died.

[pakaal]

jackntx, you wrote: "If the Iraqi population didn't want democracy and don't want Americans there, we would see mass demonstrations! Where are they? The media would jump on that!"

In case you didn't hear, the latest poll (like the one before it) show that the Iraqis want us out. 70%+ of all Iraqis want us out within 6 months, 78% say we're making the situation worse by staying and 61% say they APPROVE of attacks on our troops.

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/home_page/250.php?nid=&id=&pnt=250&lb=hmpg1

We do not dishonor the memory of our soldiers by withdrawing, we're honoring what they did over there by letting the Iraqis stand up for themselves, and take away the political thorn of continued US presence out of their side so they can rebuild their country.

[pakaal]

If y'all are as annoyed by bushrocks1 posting the same message over and over on every message area on the CBS site, do what I do. Click on the "+ report this comment" link at the bottom of his post, and tell CBS you're tired of it.

[bushrocks1]

Would I send my son to this war? You might ask would I send him to WW II? Or Vietnam? Maybe you would distinguish those conflicts and whether you would send your son to fight in them. But that question is misdirected in a very important way: I can't command my son to go to war. He has to make that choice. So the better question would be: would I volunteer to fight in Iraq, WW II, Vietnam? Would I volunteer to fight in any war? Respond if drafted? I don%u2019t know. I'm not equivocating, only addressing that it is a hypothetical. As a hypothetical, I can say, sure I'd fight. But I have nightmares of battle (from my past life as a Jacobite). So how do I feel toward those who do volunteer? Impressed and maturely knowing that many things go into their decision. But I do strongly believe that a country who can't find those men is doomed. The fact that we can find them is one reason why I say there is no failure in Iraq. Objectively, I also believe it for other reasons. An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East is a bold, brilliant, noble effort, facing a high chance of failure. That's why I greatly respect and admire those who have made the attempt--the Bush administration. They have been resolute, something I have not seen in my lifetime. They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front, being a big one. But now those traitors have apparently occupied the high ground. Yet... we're still in Iraq. Why?... I'm waiting.

[cilvie]

Just a comment about the whole, them being in civil war thing. Does it really count as a civil war if they aren't actually fighting their own government?

Democracy, or whatever it is that they have there now isn't how they've been handling their government for the last uh... couple of decades or whatever and they didn't have a civil war then did they? Sure Sadam was killing all kinds of people sarcasm but if they didn't fight then and all of the sudden they want to fight our "help"? Does that not prove anything?

[sin472260157]

READERS:Wars cost human lives! Our Wars are fought, yes, on the battle-field on both sides! But it does not surprise me anymore to see not what may have really happened for many people to die for GOD knows who is telling the true account of the deaths and how they came to happen!! We judge our SOLDIERS!! HOW DARE WE!! LOOK TO THE ENEMY AND JUDGE-SUICIDE BOMBS-TERRORISM IN EVERY SENSE of the WORD-EXECUTIONS BECAUSE WE DO NOT WANT TO GIVE BACK TERORISTS WE CAUGHT-9-11-AND ON AND ON!! I say do what you have to do ALLIED SOLDIERS they look better in BODY-BAGS than any of you would TO ME THAT IS!!DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO TO MAKE IT HOME SOLDIERS!!! GOD BLESS.

[bushrocks1]

Would I send my son to this war? You might ask would I send him to WW II? Or Vietnam? Maybe you would distinguish those conflicts and whether you would send your son to fight in them. But that question is misdirected in a very important way: I can't command my son to go to war. He has to make that choice. So the better question would be: would I volunteer to fight in Iraq, WW II, Vietnam? Would I volunteer to fight in any war? Respond if drafted? I don%u2019t know. I'm not equivocating, only addressing that it is a hypothetical. As a hypothetical, I can say, sure I'd fight. But I have nightmares of battle (from my past life as a Jacobite). So how do I feel toward those who do volunteer? Impressed and maturely knowing that many things go into their decision. But I do strongly believe that a country who can't find those men is doomed. The fact that we can find them is one reason why I say there is no failure in Iraq. Objectively, I also believe it for other reasons. An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East is a bold, brilliant, noble effort, facing a high chance of failure. That's why I greatly respect and admire those who have made the attempt--the Bush administration. They have been resolute, something I have not seen in my lifetime. They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front, being a big one. But now those traitors have apparently occupied the high ground. Yet... we're still in Iraq. Why?... I'm waiting.

[patriotic9]

Main source of all the miseries and problems in the world is the belief in an UNSEEN GOD whose existance is not proven by any scientific evidence.More people are getting killed everyday on the name of GOD then any other reason.Only religion which makes a little bit of sense is HINDU RELIGION.Atleast they worship those GODS they have seen.They worship MONKEY they have seen MONKEYS,they worship COW they have seen COWS,they worship RAT,they have seen RATS,etc.

[webdepot]

Unfortunately, Iraq is already in a civil war, and any American official that thinks otherwise is only deluding themselves. Not only is Iraq in a civil war, but it is drawing in participants from all around the region.

As for those that still say, "Stay the Course, the Iraqi Army is almost ready", you're not reading the papers. The Iraqi police, and to a somewhat lesser degree, the Iraqi Army, do not exibit any allegiance to the country, but rather, their first allegiance is to their tribe, sect, home village.
They are and will be using their new warfighting education to kill their own, with weapons we provided. Whole Iraqi battalions refuse to be deployed to areas where they can do the most good.
I wouldn't put much faith in the Iraqi security forces, either police or army.

This exerpt appeared today in an article from Rueters:
In Damascus, a Syrian analyst close to the Assad government warned that other countries would intervene if Iraq descended into full-scale civil war. "Iran will get involved, Turkey will get involved, Saudi Arabia, Syria," said the analyst, who spoke on condition he not be identified further.

"Regional war is very much a possibility," said Hiltermann, the analyst for the International Crisis Group. Iraq's neighbors "are hysterical about Iranian strategic advances in the region," he said.

Bush has opened pandora's box. You think $3.50 a gallon of gas was high... you ain't seen nothing yet..

So...... do they like have americans working in the 7-11s over there or what?

[patriotic9]

rsoxfan1123
Which site are you talking about?memri or ogrish.Both of these sites are AMERICANS.I know things on those sites are from their perspective and we need to know that.We need to know how many of our soldiers are getting killed every day specially when our own media and govt are telling lies.frankly,I don't care much about Iraqi casualties but I am really concerned about AMERICAN CASUALTIES,WHAT ARE THE REASONS OF THOSE CASUALTIES,HOW CAN WE PREVENT THEM AND WHETHER IT'S GOOD FOR OUR SOLDIERS TO BE IN IRAQ OR NOT?After seeing on those websites that how our soldiers getting killed by unseen enemies either by snipers or by IEDs,you got pissed.Can you imagine how pissed I am when I know that our soldeiers are dying there to remove a SECULAR GOVT of SADDAM and bringing an ISLAMIC RADICAL named MALIKI to form a RADICAL ISLAMIC SHIA EMPIRE.I have no shame in saying that I hate all the religious RADICALISM not only islamic.When I see that our soldiers are dying because some CHRISTIAN RADICALS believe that this war will help the second coming of CHRIST.The people I hate the most are CHRISTIANS.

[jackntx]

The Iraqis are standing up for democracy! They are bearing the bearing the brunt of casualties as the terrorists and insurgents are methodically eliminated.

If the Iraqi population didn't want democracy and don't want Americans there, we would see mass demonstrations! Where are they? The media would jump on that!

Instead, Iraqis are establishing a democratic way of life for themselves.

We must BE PATIENT for these reasons.

The Iraqi government has been in power barely 6 months.

The Iraqi Army and National Police continue to grow (350,000 by year's end) and take the lead in operations (currently 75%).

The number of terrorists and insurgents killed or detained over the past two months and twenty two days is 2173, while 227 US soldiers were killed over the period, a ratio of 9.6 to 1.

It takes time to instill in public servants a loyalty to democracy and the Iraqi government.

It takes time for Iraqi security and police to earn the trust of the Iraqi population.

To withdraw our troops before such loyalty and trust is established will betray the honor and memory of our military personnel who have given their lives in Iraq.

[bob_burd]

It's no surprise muslim sectarian extremists are killing their own intellectuals, academics and educated citizens. Of course, the Nazis did the same thing.

In order to grow and perpetuate itself Islam requires its followers to be an ignorant and uneducated group of gullible sheep, and the culture it promotes succeeds in doing just that - keeping them in the Dark Ages. But that's not enough, Mohhammed's gang wants to drag us all down with them.

Misery loves company.

Selah

[Free Citizen]

Why Lara Logan is not reporting? May be she got reprimanded for being too liberal? This whole Iraq saga is a total mess. You don't know these people. They have a different sense of civility. They don't even respect journalists. At least when Saddam was around there was some resemblance of order. The only man who could keep the different sects in check is now about to be hanged or stoned to death. Bush miscalculated by thinking he could mould American style democracy on a nation he hardly understands. And every day American kids, yes kids, are being killed on the front lines and the neocons don't get it. You are not protecting the Iraqis, you are actually policing Iraq. That is not your job. That is something the Iraqis have to do themselve. A civil war is inevitable and that shouldn't be your business. When the US had their civil war in the 1800s, no foreign nation interfered out of humanitarian concern. Save your sons, get out now.

[rsoxfan1123]

patriotic9-I apologize if I was mistaken. that site definitely publishes some Islamic material that has obviously been released for their own purposes.

[mreldude]

ok why isn't LARA LOGAN covering these stories? who the hell is elizabeth palmer? does lara still work for cbs? has she been injured while reporting in iraq? anyone know where she's been these last couple weeks?

[jackntx]

This article is another example of negative news about Iraq while ignoring positive facts! Remember, Iraq has progress and violence.
The Multi-National Forces-Iraq website shows what's happening that is largely ignored by the media. (www.mnf-iraq.com)
The article ignores these facts:
Building the Iraqi security forces is about 75% complete. See the October 25 article on the complex environment.
320,000 trained Iraqi security forces exist and 355,000 will be by year's end. See November 11 article quoting Maj.Gen. Caldwell.
Successful efforts: see November 5 article on National Police completing 'Quick Look II' and November 4 article on building relationships at the border.
Iraqi forces are RIGHT NOW leading in 75% of the operations. See the November 3 article quoting Caldwell about PM Maliki's plans. See the October 27 article quoting Caldwell regarding Iraqis taking responsibility across Iraq.
Rapid progress is occurring to eliminate terrorists and insurgents: in November so far, 722 terrorists and insurgents have been killed or detained, while 48 US military have been killed, resulting in a ratio of 15 to 1 !!! In October, 791 terrorists and insurgents were killed or detained, while 106 US military were killed, resulting in a ratio of 7.5 to 1. In September, 660 terrorists and insurgents were killed or detained, while 72 US military were killed, resulting in a ratio of 9.2 to 1. See the press releases.
Much progress continues in Iraq. We will win IF we do not wimp out.

[patriotic9]

I agree with you about flattening their cities but we should choose the right cities,flattening cities in IRAQ will be useless when the main sources of insurgency are located in IRAN and SYRIA.We can not control INSURGENY in IRAQ untill we have a control on IRAN and SYRIA.

[patriotic9]

rsoxfan1123
I've never been so pissed my whole life like today .You could have called me anything but islamic.I am an athiest and a patriotic AMERICAN who can't see my fellow americans soldiers getting killed by radicals.I don't think we should be in the state of denial.If we don't watch those websites how would we be able to fight against those RADICALS who are killing our soldiers.It's very important to know the enemy before fighting against them.The problem is not that we went aginst one guy hussain,the problem is that we went against a wrong guy who was the best guy for fulfilling our purpose and that was to control ISLAMIC RADICALS under control.One last thing"A SECULAR DICTATOR IN MIDDLE EAST IS MUCH BETTER THEN A DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED RELIGIOUS RADICAL".

[patriotic9]

kaliveotin
anti-government radicals?
The present govt of Iraq is a RADICAL GOVT.Only anti-radical govt in Iraq was the govt of SADDAM HUSSAIN who was a SECULAR DICTATOR and that's why he had killed his own people who wanted to establish a RADICAL ISLAMIC EMPIRE based on the HATRED of WEST.Islamic Radicals have succesfully remove the SECULAR GOVT by the help of USA who has removed a SECULAR SADDAM from power and brought a RELIGIOUS RADICAL named MALIKI on the name of democracy who is taking our TAX MONEY on the name of REBUILDING IRAQ and taking weapons from our govt to supply them to their HIZBOLLAH BROTHERS in LEBANON and MUQTADA AL SADR militia in IRAQ to kill our troops.Current PRIME MINISTER of IRAQ is practically a GOVERNOR from IRAN who takes all the dictations from those RADICAL IRANIAN AYATOLLAHs who call USA"THE GREATEST SATAN".SHIA MUSLIMS believe n the final coming of a MESSIAH whose name will be IMAM MEHDI.That's why the MILITIA of SADR is called MEHDI ARMY.They believe that their IMAM MEHDI will kill all the JEWS and CHRISTIANS from the world.Iraq,by the help of BUSH ADMINISTRATION is very soon gonna become a great ISLAMIC EMPIRE from IRAN in the EAST to LEBANON in the WEST.The killing of a LEBANESE CHRISTIAN LEADER is the start of preparation of their FINAL MESSIAH IMAM MEHDI.

[rsoxfan1123]

patriotic9- and to be honest, although I really dislike bush and his cronies, and was opposed to the Iraq invasion, watching those Americans get killed really pisses me off. Rather than making me turn against the war, it is tempting to want to show the people responsible for sending those young people home in boxes exactly who they are messing with when they go to war with the United States. Our mistake was declaring war on one man (hussein) rather than flattening entire cities like we did with Japan in WWII. maybe we have just been too nice.