U.N.: 3,709 Iraqis Killed In October

Highest Monthly Civilian Toll Since War Started; Bush, Al-Maliki To Meet Next Week

(CBS/AP)  At least 101 Iraqis died in the country's unending sectarian slaughter Wednesday, and the United Nations reported that 3,709 Iraqi civilians were killed in October, the highest monthly toll of the 44-month-old war and one that was sure to be eclipsed when this month's dead are counted.

The United Nations Assistance Mission for Iraq also said citizens were fleeing the country at a pace of 100,000 each month, and that at least 1.6 million Iraqis had left since the war began.

President Bush and Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki announced they will meet Nov. 29-30 in Jordan to discuss the deteriorating security situation in Iraq. "We will focus our discussions on current developments in Iraq, progress made to date in the deliberations of a high-level joint committee on transferring security responsibilities, and the role of the region in supporting Iraq," they said in a statement.

Although collecting accurate statistics in a war zone is impossible, these figures, compiled with the help of the Iraqi health authorities, give some idea of the overall scale and shape of the violence, CBS News correspondent Elizabeth Palmer reports. One hundred and ten children were killed in the past two months and 351 women, according to this report, are being singled out for abuse by religious extremists.

Life for Iraqis, especially in Baghdad and cities and towns in the center of the country, has become increasingly untenable. Many schools failed to open at all in September and professionals — especially professors, physicians, politicians and journalists — were falling to sectarian killer at a stunning pace.

Three hundred teachers have been killed since the start of the year. About 2 million Iraqis have either left, or been forced from their homes, since the invasion, and 1.5 million have left the country already, Palmer reports. And many of those leaving are the best and the brightest.

Lynchings have been reported as Sunnis and Shiites conduct a merciless campaign of revenge killings. Some Shiite residents in the north of Baghdad neighborhood of Hurriyah claim that militiamen and death squads are holding Sunni captives in warehouses then slaughtering them at the funerals of Shiites killed in the tit-for-tat murders.

"Because the U.N. Assistance Mission for Iraq is on the ground throughout Iraq, they have a more accurate birds-eye view of the deteriorating conditions," said CBS News foreign affairs analyst Pamela Falk from the U.N. "The human rights report covers areas that have not been available from other agencies or the press, including arbitrary detentions and torture."

The U.N. report was released as assassins killed a bodyguard of Iraq's parliament speaker one day after a bomb exploded in the hot-tempered politician's motorcade as it drove into a parking lot inside the fortified Green Zone in central Baghdad. It was a major security breach in the heavily guarded compound that houses the U.S. and British embassies and the Iraqi government.

In other developments:

The U.S. military reports that three Marines have been killed in Anbar province, the troubled region of western Iraq where many Sunni-Arab insurgents are based. The command says the Marines, assigned to Regimental Combat Team 7, died Wednesday from wounds sustained during enemy action. So far this month in Iraq, 52 American service members have been killed or died.

The Marines may need to grow a bit. The Marine Corps commandant says unless more men and women are added to the force, the Marines might not be able to sustain their deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan without undue stress, or without sacrificing needed training. General James Conway also told reporters this morning it could take years to adequately train and equip Iraq's security forces. And he says that could be longer than the timeline that the American people "will support."

U.S. and Iraqi forces backed by helicopters swept into Baghdad's Sadr City Shiite slum in a dark-of-night raid Tuesday that netted seven militiamen, including one believed to know the whereabouts of an American soldier kidnapped nearly a month ago.

A Marine pleaded guilty Tuesday to aggravated assault and conspiracy to obstruct justice in the death of Iraqi civilian who was shot and killed by his military unit. Lance Cpl. Jerry E. Shumate Jr. entered his pleas through his civilian attorney Steve Immel during court-martial proceedings and was expected to testify about the April incident in the town of Hamdania.

The debate over what to do about the war on Iraq - complete with catch phrases to describe each plan - has intensified, with word of a secret report on the issue, commissioned by Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. According to the Washington Post Monday, the options are: "Go big, go long or go home."

Violence also continued against Iraq's journalists Wednesday, when gunmen sprayed Raad Jaafar Hamadi with bullets as he drove his car in the capital's Washash neighborhood, said police 1st Lt. Maitham Abdul-Razaq. Hamadi worked for the state-run al-Sabah newspaper.

Continued

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by pakaal November 24, 2006 5:51 PM EST

jackntx, you wrote: "If the Iraqi population didn't want democracy and don't want Americans there, we would see mass demonstrations! Where are they? The media would jump on that!"

In case you didn't hear, the latest poll (like the one before it) show that the Iraqis want us out. 70%+ of all Iraqis want us out within 6 months, 78% say we're making the situation worse by staying and 61% say they APPROVE of attacks on our troops.

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/home_page/250.php?nid=&id=&pnt=250&lb=hmpg1

We do not dishonor the memory of our soldiers by withdrawing, we're honoring what they did over there by letting the Iraqis stand up for themselves, and take away the political thorn of continued US presence out of their side so they can rebuild their country.

Reply to this comment

by pakaal November 24, 2006 5:37 PM EST

If y'all are as annoyed by bushrocks1 posting the same message over and over on every message area on the CBS site, do what I do. Click on the "+ report this comment" link at the bottom of his post, and tell CBS you're tired of it.

Reply to this comment

by bushrocks1 November 24, 2006 3:25 PM EST

Would I send my son to this war? You might ask would I send him to WW II? Or Vietnam? Maybe you would distinguish those conflicts and whether you would send your son to fight in them. But that question is misdirected in a very important way: I can't command my son to go to war. He has to make that choice. So the better question would be: would I volunteer to fight in Iraq, WW II, Vietnam? Would I volunteer to fight in any war? Respond if drafted? I don%u2019t know. I'm not equivocating, only addressing that it is a hypothetical. As a hypothetical, I can say, sure I'd fight. But I have nightmares of battle (from my past life as a Jacobite). So how do I feel toward those who do volunteer? Impressed and maturely knowing that many things go into their decision. But I do strongly believe that a country who can't find those men is doomed. The fact that we can find them is one reason why I say there is no failure in Iraq. Objectively, I also believe it for other reasons. An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East is a bold, brilliant, noble effort, facing a high chance of failure. That's why I greatly respect and admire those who have made the attempt--the Bush administration. They have been resolute, something I have not seen in my lifetime. They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front, being a big one. But now those traitors have apparently occupied the high ground. Yet... we're still in Iraq. Why?... I'm waiting.

Reply to this comment

by cilvie November 24, 2006 1:50 AM EST

Just a comment about the whole, them being in civil war thing. Does it really count as a civil war if they aren't actually fighting their own government?

Democracy, or whatever it is that they have there now isn't how they've been handling their government for the last uh... couple of decades or whatever and they didn't have a civil war then did they? Sure Sadam was killing all kinds of people sarcasm but if they didn't fight then and all of the sudden they want to fight our "help"? Does that not prove anything?

Reply to this comment

by sin472260157 November 23, 2006 8:35 PM EST

READERS:Wars cost human lives! Our Wars are fought, yes, on the battle-field on both sides! But it does not surprise me anymore to see not what may have really happened for many people to die for GOD knows who is telling the true account of the deaths and how they came to happen!! We judge our SOLDIERS!! HOW DARE WE!! LOOK TO THE ENEMY AND JUDGE-SUICIDE BOMBS-TERRORISM IN EVERY SENSE of the WORD-EXECUTIONS BECAUSE WE DO NOT WANT TO GIVE BACK TERORISTS WE CAUGHT-9-11-AND ON AND ON!! I say do what you have to do ALLIED SOLDIERS they look better in BODY-BAGS than any of you would TO ME THAT IS!!DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO TO MAKE IT HOME SOLDIERS!!! GOD BLESS.

Reply to this comment

by bushrocks1 November 23, 2006 5:48 PM EST

Would I send my son to this war? You might ask would I send him to WW II? Or Vietnam? Maybe you would distinguish those conflicts and whether you would send your son to fight in them. But that question is misdirected in a very important way: I can't command my son to go to war. He has to make that choice. So the better question would be: would I volunteer to fight in Iraq, WW II, Vietnam? Would I volunteer to fight in any war? Respond if drafted? I don%u2019t know. I'm not equivocating, only addressing that it is a hypothetical. As a hypothetical, I can say, sure I'd fight. But I have nightmares of battle (from my past life as a Jacobite). So how do I feel toward those who do volunteer? Impressed and maturely knowing that many things go into their decision. But I do strongly believe that a country who can't find those men is doomed. The fact that we can find them is one reason why I say there is no failure in Iraq. Objectively, I also believe it for other reasons. An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East is a bold, brilliant, noble effort, facing a high chance of failure. That's why I greatly respect and admire those who have made the attempt--the Bush administration. They have been resolute, something I have not seen in my lifetime. They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front, being a big one. But now those traitors have apparently occupied the high ground. Yet... we're still in Iraq. Why?... I'm waiting.

Reply to this comment

by patriotic9 November 23, 2006 1:25 PM EST

Main source of all the miseries and problems in the world is the belief in an UNSEEN GOD whose existance is not proven by any scientific evidence.More people are getting killed everyday on the name of GOD then any other reason.Only religion which makes a little bit of sense is HINDU RELIGION.Atleast they worship those GODS they have seen.They worship MONKEY they have seen MONKEYS,they worship COW they have seen COWS,they worship RAT,they have seen RATS,etc.

Reply to this comment

by webdepot November 23, 2006 12:58 PM EST

Unfortunately, Iraq is already in a civil war, and any American official that thinks otherwise is only deluding themselves. Not only is Iraq in a civil war, but it is drawing in participants from all around the region.

As for those that still say, "Stay the Course, the Iraqi Army is almost ready", you're not reading the papers. The Iraqi police, and to a somewhat lesser degree, the Iraqi Army, do not exibit any allegiance to the country, but rather, their first allegiance is to their tribe, sect, home village.
They are and will be using their new warfighting education to kill their own, with weapons we provided. Whole Iraqi battalions refuse to be deployed to areas where they can do the most good.
I wouldn't put much faith in the Iraqi security forces, either police or army.

This exerpt appeared today in an article from Rueters:
In Damascus, a Syrian analyst close to the Assad government warned that other countries would intervene if Iraq descended into full-scale civil war. "Iran will get involved, Turkey will get involved, Saudi Arabia, Syria," said the analyst, who spoke on condition he not be identified further.

"Regional war is very much a possibility," said Hiltermann, the analyst for the International Crisis Group. Iraq's neighbors "are hysterical about Iranian strategic advances in the region," he said.

Bush has opened pandora's box. You think $3.50 a gallon of gas was high... you ain't seen nothing yet..

Reply to this comment

by November 23, 2006 12:55 PM EST

So...... do they like have americans working in the 7-11s over there or what?

Reply to this comment

by patriotic9 November 23, 2006 12:52 PM EST

rsoxfan1123
Which site are you talking about?memri or ogrish.Both of these sites are AMERICANS.I know things on those sites are from their perspective and we need to know that.We need to know how many of our soldiers are getting killed every day specially when our own media and govt are telling lies.frankly,I don't care much about Iraqi casualties but I am really concerned about AMERICAN CASUALTIES,WHAT ARE THE REASONS OF THOSE CASUALTIES,HOW CAN WE PREVENT THEM AND WHETHER IT'S GOOD FOR OUR SOLDIERS TO BE IN IRAQ OR NOT?After seeing on those websites that how our soldiers getting killed by unseen enemies either by snipers or by IEDs,you got pissed.Can you imagine how pissed I am when I know that our soldeiers are dying there to remove a SECULAR GOVT of SADDAM and bringing an ISLAMIC RADICAL named MALIKI to form a RADICAL ISLAMIC SHIA EMPIRE.I have no shame in saying that I hate all the religious RADICALISM not only islamic.When I see that our soldiers are dying because some CHRISTIAN RADICALS believe that this war will help the second coming of CHRIST.The people I hate the most are CHRISTIANS.

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by jackntx November 23, 2006 12:04 PM EST

The Iraqis are standing up for democracy! They are bearing the bearing the brunt of casualties as the terrorists and insurgents are methodically eliminated.

If the Iraqi population didn't want democracy and don't want Americans there, we would see mass demonstrations! Where are they? The media would jump on that!

Instead, Iraqis are establishing a democratic way of life for themselves.

We must BE PATIENT for these reasons.

The Iraqi government has been in power barely 6 months.

The Iraqi Army and National Police continue to grow (350,000 by year's end) and take the lead in operations (currently 75%).

The number of terrorists and insurgents killed or detained over the past two months and twenty two days is 2173, while 227 US soldiers were killed over the period, a ratio of 9.6 to 1.

It takes time to instill in public servants a loyalty to democracy and the Iraqi government.

It takes time for Iraqi security and police to earn the trust of the Iraqi population.

To withdraw our troops before such loyalty and trust is established will betray the honor and memory of our military personnel who have given their lives in Iraq.

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by bob_burd November 23, 2006 8:57 AM EST

It's no surprise muslim sectarian extremists are killing their own intellectuals, academics and educated citizens. Of course, the Nazis did the same thing.

In order to grow and perpetuate itself Islam requires its followers to be an ignorant and uneducated group of gullible sheep, and the culture it promotes succeeds in doing just that - keeping them in the Dark Ages. But that's not enough, Mohhammed's gang wants to drag us all down with them.

Misery loves company.

Selah

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by Free Citizen November 23, 2006 4:47 AM EST

Why Lara Logan is not reporting? May be she got reprimanded for being too liberal? This whole Iraq saga is a total mess. You don't know these people. They have a different sense of civility. They don't even respect journalists. At least when Saddam was around there was some resemblance of order. The only man who could keep the different sects in check is now about to be hanged or stoned to death. Bush miscalculated by thinking he could mould American style democracy on a nation he hardly understands. And every day American kids, yes kids, are being killed on the front lines and the neocons don't get it. You are not protecting the Iraqis, you are actually policing Iraq. That is not your job. That is something the Iraqis have to do themselve. A civil war is inevitable and that shouldn't be your business. When the US had their civil war in the 1800s, no foreign nation interfered out of humanitarian concern. Save your sons, get out now.

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by rsoxfan1123 November 23, 2006 3:32 AM EST

patriotic9-I apologize if I was mistaken. that site definitely publishes some Islamic material that has obviously been released for their own purposes.

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by mreldude November 23, 2006 3:30 AM EST

ok why isn't LARA LOGAN covering these stories? who the hell is elizabeth palmer? does lara still work for cbs? has she been injured while reporting in iraq? anyone know where she's been these last couple weeks?

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by jackntx November 23, 2006 3:13 AM EST

This article is another example of negative news about Iraq while ignoring positive facts! Remember, Iraq has progress and violence.
The Multi-National Forces-Iraq website shows what's happening that is largely ignored by the media. (www.mnf-iraq.com)
The article ignores these facts:
Building the Iraqi security forces is about 75% complete. See the October 25 article on the complex environment.
320,000 trained Iraqi security forces exist and 355,000 will be by year's end. See November 11 article quoting Maj.Gen. Caldwell.
Successful efforts: see November 5 article on National Police completing 'Quick Look II' and November 4 article on building relationships at the border.
Iraqi forces are RIGHT NOW leading in 75% of the operations. See the November 3 article quoting Caldwell about PM Maliki's plans. See the October 27 article quoting Caldwell regarding Iraqis taking responsibility across Iraq.
Rapid progress is occurring to eliminate terrorists and insurgents: in November so far, 722 terrorists and insurgents have been killed or detained, while 48 US military have been killed, resulting in a ratio of 15 to 1 !!! In October, 791 terrorists and insurgents were killed or detained, while 106 US military were killed, resulting in a ratio of 7.5 to 1. In September, 660 terrorists and insurgents were killed or detained, while 72 US military were killed, resulting in a ratio of 9.2 to 1. See the press releases.
Much progress continues in Iraq. We will win IF we do not wimp out.

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by patriotic9 November 23, 2006 2:59 AM EST

I agree with you about flattening their cities but we should choose the right cities,flattening cities in IRAQ will be useless when the main sources of insurgency are located in IRAN and SYRIA.We can not control INSURGENY in IRAQ untill we have a control on IRAN and SYRIA.

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by patriotic9 November 23, 2006 2:38 AM EST

rsoxfan1123
I've never been so pissed my whole life like today .You could have called me anything but islamic.I am an athiest and a patriotic AMERICAN who can't see my fellow americans soldiers getting killed by radicals.I don't think we should be in the state of denial.If we don't watch those websites how would we be able to fight against those RADICALS who are killing our soldiers.It's very important to know the enemy before fighting against them.The problem is not that we went aginst one guy hussain,the problem is that we went against a wrong guy who was the best guy for fulfilling our purpose and that was to control ISLAMIC RADICALS under control.One last thing"A SECULAR DICTATOR IN MIDDLE EAST IS MUCH BETTER THEN A DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED RELIGIOUS RADICAL".

Reply to this comment

by patriotic9 November 23, 2006 2:24 AM EST

kaliveotin
anti-government radicals?
The present govt of Iraq is a RADICAL GOVT.Only anti-radical govt in Iraq was the govt of SADDAM HUSSAIN who was a SECULAR DICTATOR and that's why he had killed his own people who wanted to establish a RADICAL ISLAMIC EMPIRE based on the HATRED of WEST.Islamic Radicals have succesfully remove the SECULAR GOVT by the help of USA who has removed a SECULAR SADDAM from power and brought a RELIGIOUS RADICAL named MALIKI on the name of democracy who is taking our TAX MONEY on the name of REBUILDING IRAQ and taking weapons from our govt to supply them to their HIZBOLLAH BROTHERS in LEBANON and MUQTADA AL SADR militia in IRAQ to kill our troops.Current PRIME MINISTER of IRAQ is practically a GOVERNOR from IRAN who takes all the dictations from those RADICAL IRANIAN AYATOLLAHs who call USA"THE GREATEST SATAN".SHIA MUSLIMS believe n the final coming of a MESSIAH whose name will be IMAM MEHDI.That's why the MILITIA of SADR is called MEHDI ARMY.They believe that their IMAM MEHDI will kill all the JEWS and CHRISTIANS from the world.Iraq,by the help of BUSH ADMINISTRATION is very soon gonna become a great ISLAMIC EMPIRE from IRAN in the EAST to LEBANON in the WEST.The killing of a LEBANESE CHRISTIAN LEADER is the start of preparation of their FINAL MESSIAH IMAM MEHDI.

Reply to this comment

by rsoxfan1123 November 23, 2006 2:23 AM EST

patriotic9- and to be honest, although I really dislike bush and his cronies, and was opposed to the Iraq invasion, watching those Americans get killed really pisses me off. Rather than making me turn against the war, it is tempting to want to show the people responsible for sending those young people home in boxes exactly who they are messing with when they go to war with the United States. Our mistake was declaring war on one man (hussein) rather than flattening entire cities like we did with Japan in WWII. maybe we have just been too nice.

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[pakaal]

jackntx, you wrote: "If the Iraqi population didn't want democracy and don't want Americans there, we would see mass demonstrations! Where are they? The media would jump on that!"

In case you didn't hear, the latest poll (like the one before it) show that the Iraqis want us out. 70%+ of all Iraqis want us out within 6 months, 78% say we're making the situation worse by staying and 61% say they APPROVE of attacks on our troops.

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/home_page/250.php?nid=&id=&pnt=250&lb=hmpg1

We do not dishonor the memory of our soldiers by withdrawing, we're honoring what they did over there by letting the Iraqis stand up for themselves, and take away the political thorn of continued US presence out of their side so they can rebuild their country.

[pakaal]

If y'all are as annoyed by bushrocks1 posting the same message over and over on every message area on the CBS site, do what I do. Click on the "+ report this comment" link at the bottom of his post, and tell CBS you're tired of it.

[bushrocks1]

Would I send my son to this war? You might ask would I send him to WW II? Or Vietnam? Maybe you would distinguish those conflicts and whether you would send your son to fight in them. But that question is misdirected in a very important way: I can't command my son to go to war. He has to make that choice. So the better question would be: would I volunteer to fight in Iraq, WW II, Vietnam? Would I volunteer to fight in any war? Respond if drafted? I don%u2019t know. I'm not equivocating, only addressing that it is a hypothetical. As a hypothetical, I can say, sure I'd fight. But I have nightmares of battle (from my past life as a Jacobite). So how do I feel toward those who do volunteer? Impressed and maturely knowing that many things go into their decision. But I do strongly believe that a country who can't find those men is doomed. The fact that we can find them is one reason why I say there is no failure in Iraq. Objectively, I also believe it for other reasons. An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East is a bold, brilliant, noble effort, facing a high chance of failure. That's why I greatly respect and admire those who have made the attempt--the Bush administration. They have been resolute, something I have not seen in my lifetime. They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front, being a big one. But now those traitors have apparently occupied the high ground. Yet... we're still in Iraq. Why?... I'm waiting.

[cilvie]

Just a comment about the whole, them being in civil war thing. Does it really count as a civil war if they aren't actually fighting their own government?

Democracy, or whatever it is that they have there now isn't how they've been handling their government for the last uh... couple of decades or whatever and they didn't have a civil war then did they? Sure Sadam was killing all kinds of people sarcasm but if they didn't fight then and all of the sudden they want to fight our "help"? Does that not prove anything?

[sin472260157]

READERS:Wars cost human lives! Our Wars are fought, yes, on the battle-field on both sides! But it does not surprise me anymore to see not what may have really happened for many people to die for GOD knows who is telling the true account of the deaths and how they came to happen!! We judge our SOLDIERS!! HOW DARE WE!! LOOK TO THE ENEMY AND JUDGE-SUICIDE BOMBS-TERRORISM IN EVERY SENSE of the WORD-EXECUTIONS BECAUSE WE DO NOT WANT TO GIVE BACK TERORISTS WE CAUGHT-9-11-AND ON AND ON!! I say do what you have to do ALLIED SOLDIERS they look better in BODY-BAGS than any of you would TO ME THAT IS!!DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO TO MAKE IT HOME SOLDIERS!!! GOD BLESS.

[bushrocks1]

Would I send my son to this war? You might ask would I send him to WW II? Or Vietnam? Maybe you would distinguish those conflicts and whether you would send your son to fight in them. But that question is misdirected in a very important way: I can't command my son to go to war. He has to make that choice. So the better question would be: would I volunteer to fight in Iraq, WW II, Vietnam? Would I volunteer to fight in any war? Respond if drafted? I don%u2019t know. I'm not equivocating, only addressing that it is a hypothetical. As a hypothetical, I can say, sure I'd fight. But I have nightmares of battle (from my past life as a Jacobite). So how do I feel toward those who do volunteer? Impressed and maturely knowing that many things go into their decision. But I do strongly believe that a country who can't find those men is doomed. The fact that we can find them is one reason why I say there is no failure in Iraq. Objectively, I also believe it for other reasons. An attempt to establish democracy in the Middle East is a bold, brilliant, noble effort, facing a high chance of failure. That's why I greatly respect and admire those who have made the attempt--the Bush administration. They have been resolute, something I have not seen in my lifetime. They may not succeed, for reasons outside their control or fault: traitors on the home front, being a big one. But now those traitors have apparently occupied the high ground. Yet... we're still in Iraq. Why?... I'm waiting.

[patriotic9]

Main source of all the miseries and problems in the world is the belief in an UNSEEN GOD whose existance is not proven by any scientific evidence.More people are getting killed everyday on the name of GOD then any other reason.Only religion which makes a little bit of sense is HINDU RELIGION.Atleast they worship those GODS they have seen.They worship MONKEY they have seen MONKEYS,they worship COW they have seen COWS,they worship RAT,they have seen RATS,etc.

[webdepot]

Unfortunately, Iraq is already in a civil war, and any American official that thinks otherwise is only deluding themselves. Not only is Iraq in a civil war, but it is drawing in participants from all around the region.

As for those that still say, "Stay the Course, the Iraqi Army is almost ready", you're not reading the papers. The Iraqi police, and to a somewhat lesser degree, the Iraqi Army, do not exibit any allegiance to the country, but rather, their first allegiance is to their tribe, sect, home village.
They are and will be using their new warfighting education to kill their own, with weapons we provided. Whole Iraqi battalions refuse to be deployed to areas where they can do the most good.
I wouldn't put much faith in the Iraqi security forces, either police or army.

This exerpt appeared today in an article from Rueters:
In Damascus, a Syrian analyst close to the Assad government warned that other countries would intervene if Iraq descended into full-scale civil war. "Iran will get involved, Turkey will get involved, Saudi Arabia, Syria," said the analyst, who spoke on condition he not be identified further.

"Regional war is very much a possibility," said Hiltermann, the analyst for the International Crisis Group. Iraq's neighbors "are hysterical about Iranian strategic advances in the region," he said.

Bush has opened pandora's box. You think $3.50 a gallon of gas was high... you ain't seen nothing yet..

So...... do they like have americans working in the 7-11s over there or what?

[patriotic9]

rsoxfan1123
Which site are you talking about?memri or ogrish.Both of these sites are AMERICANS.I know things on those sites are from their perspective and we need to know that.We need to know how many of our soldiers are getting killed every day specially when our own media and govt are telling lies.frankly,I don't care much about Iraqi casualties but I am really concerned about AMERICAN CASUALTIES,WHAT ARE THE REASONS OF THOSE CASUALTIES,HOW CAN WE PREVENT THEM AND WHETHER IT'S GOOD FOR OUR SOLDIERS TO BE IN IRAQ OR NOT?After seeing on those websites that how our soldiers getting killed by unseen enemies either by snipers or by IEDs,you got pissed.Can you imagine how pissed I am when I know that our soldeiers are dying there to remove a SECULAR GOVT of SADDAM and bringing an ISLAMIC RADICAL named MALIKI to form a RADICAL ISLAMIC SHIA EMPIRE.I have no shame in saying that I hate all the religious RADICALISM not only islamic.When I see that our soldiers are dying because some CHRISTIAN RADICALS believe that this war will help the second coming of CHRIST.The people I hate the most are CHRISTIANS.

[jackntx]

The Iraqis are standing up for democracy! They are bearing the bearing the brunt of casualties as the terrorists and insurgents are methodically eliminated.

If the Iraqi population didn't want democracy and don't want Americans there, we would see mass demonstrations! Where are they? The media would jump on that!

Instead, Iraqis are establishing a democratic way of life for themselves.

We must BE PATIENT for these reasons.

The Iraqi government has been in power barely 6 months.

The Iraqi Army and National Police continue to grow (350,000 by year's end) and take the lead in operations (currently 75%).

The number of terrorists and insurgents killed or detained over the past two months and twenty two days is 2173, while 227 US soldiers were killed over the period, a ratio of 9.6 to 1.

It takes time to instill in public servants a loyalty to democracy and the Iraqi government.

It takes time for Iraqi security and police to earn the trust of the Iraqi population.

To withdraw our troops before such loyalty and trust is established will betray the honor and memory of our military personnel who have given their lives in Iraq.

[bob_burd]

It's no surprise muslim sectarian extremists are killing their own intellectuals, academics and educated citizens. Of course, the Nazis did the same thing.

In order to grow and perpetuate itself Islam requires its followers to be an ignorant and uneducated group of gullible sheep, and the culture it promotes succeeds in doing just that - keeping them in the Dark Ages. But that's not enough, Mohhammed's gang wants to drag us all down with them.

Misery loves company.

Selah

[Free Citizen]

Why Lara Logan is not reporting? May be she got reprimanded for being too liberal? This whole Iraq saga is a total mess. You don't know these people. They have a different sense of civility. They don't even respect journalists. At least when Saddam was around there was some resemblance of order. The only man who could keep the different sects in check is now about to be hanged or stoned to death. Bush miscalculated by thinking he could mould American style democracy on a nation he hardly understands. And every day American kids, yes kids, are being killed on the front lines and the neocons don't get it. You are not protecting the Iraqis, you are actually policing Iraq. That is not your job. That is something the Iraqis have to do themselve. A civil war is inevitable and that shouldn't be your business. When the US had their civil war in the 1800s, no foreign nation interfered out of humanitarian concern. Save your sons, get out now.

[rsoxfan1123]

patriotic9-I apologize if I was mistaken. that site definitely publishes some Islamic material that has obviously been released for their own purposes.

[mreldude]

ok why isn't LARA LOGAN covering these stories? who the hell is elizabeth palmer? does lara still work for cbs? has she been injured while reporting in iraq? anyone know where she's been these last couple weeks?

[jackntx]

This article is another example of negative news about Iraq while ignoring positive facts! Remember, Iraq has progress and violence.
The Multi-National Forces-Iraq website shows what's happening that is largely ignored by the media. (www.mnf-iraq.com)
The article ignores these facts:
Building the Iraqi security forces is about 75% complete. See the October 25 article on the complex environment.
320,000 trained Iraqi security forces exist and 355,000 will be by year's end. See November 11 article quoting Maj.Gen. Caldwell.
Successful efforts: see November 5 article on National Police completing 'Quick Look II' and November 4 article on building relationships at the border.
Iraqi forces are RIGHT NOW leading in 75% of the operations. See the November 3 article quoting Caldwell about PM Maliki's plans. See the October 27 article quoting Caldwell regarding Iraqis taking responsibility across Iraq.
Rapid progress is occurring to eliminate terrorists and insurgents: in November so far, 722 terrorists and insurgents have been killed or detained, while 48 US military have been killed, resulting in a ratio of 15 to 1 !!! In October, 791 terrorists and insurgents were killed or detained, while 106 US military were killed, resulting in a ratio of 7.5 to 1. In September, 660 terrorists and insurgents were killed or detained, while 72 US military were killed, resulting in a ratio of 9.2 to 1. See the press releases.
Much progress continues in Iraq. We will win IF we do not wimp out.

[patriotic9]

I agree with you about flattening their cities but we should choose the right cities,flattening cities in IRAQ will be useless when the main sources of insurgency are located in IRAN and SYRIA.We can not control INSURGENY in IRAQ untill we have a control on IRAN and SYRIA.

[patriotic9]

rsoxfan1123
I've never been so pissed my whole life like today .You could have called me anything but islamic.I am an athiest and a patriotic AMERICAN who can't see my fellow americans soldiers getting killed by radicals.I don't think we should be in the state of denial.If we don't watch those websites how would we be able to fight against those RADICALS who are killing our soldiers.It's very important to know the enemy before fighting against them.The problem is not that we went aginst one guy hussain,the problem is that we went against a wrong guy who was the best guy for fulfilling our purpose and that was to control ISLAMIC RADICALS under control.One last thing"A SECULAR DICTATOR IN MIDDLE EAST IS MUCH BETTER THEN A DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED RELIGIOUS RADICAL".

[patriotic9]

kaliveotin
anti-government radicals?
The present govt of Iraq is a RADICAL GOVT.Only anti-radical govt in Iraq was the govt of SADDAM HUSSAIN who was a SECULAR DICTATOR and that's why he had killed his own people who wanted to establish a RADICAL ISLAMIC EMPIRE based on the HATRED of WEST.Islamic Radicals have succesfully remove the SECULAR GOVT by the help of USA who has removed a SECULAR SADDAM from power and brought a RELIGIOUS RADICAL named MALIKI on the name of democracy who is taking our TAX MONEY on the name of REBUILDING IRAQ and taking weapons from our govt to supply them to their HIZBOLLAH BROTHERS in LEBANON and MUQTADA AL SADR militia in IRAQ to kill our troops.Current PRIME MINISTER of IRAQ is practically a GOVERNOR from IRAN who takes all the dictations from those RADICAL IRANIAN AYATOLLAHs who call USA"THE GREATEST SATAN".SHIA MUSLIMS believe n the final coming of a MESSIAH whose name will be IMAM MEHDI.That's why the MILITIA of SADR is called MEHDI ARMY.They believe that their IMAM MEHDI will kill all the JEWS and CHRISTIANS from the world.Iraq,by the help of BUSH ADMINISTRATION is very soon gonna become a great ISLAMIC EMPIRE from IRAN in the EAST to LEBANON in the WEST.The killing of a LEBANESE CHRISTIAN LEADER is the start of preparation of their FINAL MESSIAH IMAM MEHDI.

[rsoxfan1123]

patriotic9- and to be honest, although I really dislike bush and his cronies, and was opposed to the Iraq invasion, watching those Americans get killed really pisses me off. Rather than making me turn against the war, it is tempting to want to show the people responsible for sending those young people home in boxes exactly who they are messing with when they go to war with the United States. Our mistake was declaring war on one man (hussein) rather than flattening entire cities like we did with Japan in WWII. maybe we have just been too nice.