A Pill To Forget?

Can A Medication Suppress Traumatic Memories?

(CBS)  McGaugh studies memory in rats, and he invited Stahl to watch the making of a rat memory – in this case how a rat who's never been in this tank of water before learns how to find a clear plastic platform just below the surface.

"He’ll swim around randomly," McGaugh explains. The rat cannot see the platform, since his eyes are on the top of his head.

The rat will swim around the edge for a long time, until eventually he ventures out and by chance bumps into the platform. The next day, he'll find the platform a little bit faster.

But another rat, who had learned where the platform was the day prior, and then received a shot of adrenaline immediately afterwards, today swam instantly to the platform.

Adrenaline actually made this rat's brain remember better, and McGaugh believes the same thing happens in people. "Suppose I said to you, 'You know, I've watched your programs a lot over the years, and although it pains me to have to tell you this, I think you're one of worst people I've ever seen on … now don't take it, don't take it personally,'" McGaugh says.

"So, my stress system would go into overdrive, no question," Stahl says.

"Even with my telling you that it's not true, there's nothing to keep you from blushing, from feeling warm all over," McGaugh points out. "That's the adrenaline. And I dare say that you're gonna remember my having said that long after you've forgotten the other details of our discussion here. I guarantee it."

McGaugh says that’s why we remember important and emotional events in our lives more than regular day-to-day experiences. The next step in his research was to see what would happen when adrenaline was blocked; he started experimenting with propranolol.

"Propranolol sits on that nerve cell and blocks it, so that, think of this as being a key, and this is a lock, the hole in the lock is blocked because of propranolol sitting there. So adrenaline can be present, but it can't do its job," McGaugh explains.

McGaugh showed Stahl a third rat that had learned where the platform was on the previous day and then received an injection of propranolol. The next day, the rat swam around the edge, as if he had forgotten there ever was a platform out there.

Across the country at Harvard, Roger Pitman read McGaugh's studies and a light bulb went on. "When I read about this, I said, 'This has got to be how post-traumatic stress disorder works.' Because think about what happens to a person. First of all, they have a horribly traumatic event, and they have intense fear and helplessness. So that intense fear and helplessness is gonna stimulate adrenaline," Pitman says. "And then what do we find three months or six months or 20 years later? Excessively strong memories."

[mstonie-2009]

I RECENTLY VIEWED THE EPISODE ON THE MEMORY FORGETING PILL Propranolol AND I WISH I HAD SOME TO TAKE REGARDLESS IF IT IS FDA APPROVED OR NOT..I HAVE LIVED WITH THE HORRIFIC MEMORIES OF MY CHILDREN DEATHS AND IT'S BEEN 17 YEARS AND I HAVE TRIED EVERY THING THERE IS TO TAKE AND HAVE YET TO GET ANYTHING THAT KEEPS ME FROM BEING STUCK. BEING ALIVE DOES NOT MAKE IT EASIER TO FUNCTION DAILY AND UNLESS YOU HAVE LIVED THROUGH A TRAGEDY THEN YOU NEVER KNOW THE EXPERIENCE IT IS TO LIVE IN A STUCK STATE OF MIND.

[carly710]

The problem with propranolol is that one of the main side effects is depression. Part of PTSD is problems with depression. Therefore, in many of the cases, in order to take propranolol, one would have to take an antidepressant to counteract the side effect of the original drug. Surely, a researche can develop something better!

[renmak]

So if the drug works by blocking adrenaline, thus diffusing a memory, why not study the use of adrenaline to treat memory impairment such as Alzheimer's???? I have seen Alzheimer's patients improve for several seconds after having what they perceived as a frightening experience. Apparently the fear produced a surge of adrenaline and their cognition was improved momentarily.

[ladyrainbo]

I have suffered from PTSD since childhood but wasn't diagnosed until my 40's. No one who hasn't suffered from this could possibly understand how debilitating it is.

I have worked in the mental health field and have observed how none psychiatric doctors prescribe psychotropics inappropriately.

I think all psychotropics should be the domain of the psychiatrists who understand the actions of the drugs better then a general practitioner. I've seen way too many elderly over medicated with psychotropics.

That being said, I think this drug should also be available with the condition that if it is prescribed by a non psychiatrist, it MUST be for a documented medical condition.

For the purposes of easing traumatic memory, let's the the prescriptions to the head shrinkers.

[ladyrainbo]

I have suffered from PTSD since childhood but wasn't diagnosed until my 40's. No one who hasn't suffered from this could possibly understand how debilitating it is.

I have worked in the mental health field and have observed how none psychiatric doctors prescribe psychotropics inappropriately.

I think all psychotropics should be the domain of the psychiatrists who understand the actions of the drugs better then a general practitioner. I've seen way too many elderly over medicated with psychotropics.

That being said, I think this drug should also be available with the condition that if it is prescribed by a non psychiatrist, it MUST be for a documented medical condition.

For the purposes of easing traumatic memory, let's the the prescriptions to the head shrinkers.

[donnie900]

Women are lucky. They give birth and forget. And men live their whole lives in pain, and can't forget.

[patricia64-2009]

This story should be balanced by a look at the non-pill solutions available for the treatment of PTSD. There are non-talking therapies, such as EMDR, acupuncture, homeopathy, yoga, imagery that relieve nervous system trauma without side effects. Drugs ALWAYS have side effects, be it little, be it later. Why do we have such paltry education and press on alternatives?

[earnshaw8]

I was horrified by your segment 'A Pill To Forget?' on the abuse potential of Propranolol which is easily availabe by prescription for other medical uses.

On the other hand could the drug be used as a treatment for pedophilia? Perhaps human sexual urges are reinforced by the strong memories formed by adrenalin production during sexual encounters.

Just wondering.

[junkmale4]

For the past three or four years, I have been taking propanolol (20mg 3x/day) for migraines, to reduce my blood pressure. I also take Zoloft (100mg 2x/day) and Welbutrin (150mg 1x or 2x/day) to moderate the drops in serotonin and dopamine levels which cause incapacitating depression.

I have not found that propanolol helps me forget traumatic events of 30+ years ago that destroyed my life. But the raw-edged rage has become a more low-key black gloom and hopeless despair. I guess despair is less sociopathic than rage, so that is a plus for the Zoloft.

[junkmale4]

For the past three or four years, I have been taking propanolol (20mg 3x/day) for migraines, to reduce my blood pressure. I also take Zoloft (100mg 2x/day) and Welbutrin (150mg 1x or 2x/day) to moderate the drops in serotonin and dopamine levels which cause incapacitating depression.

I have not found that propanolol helps me forget traumatic events of 30+ years ago that destroyed my life. But the raw-edged rage has become a more low-key black gloom and hopeless despair. I guess despair is less sociopathic than rage, so that is a plus for the Zoloft.

[mrdavidson1]

As a nurse who spent 20+ years working with emotionally disturbed children I believe the unethical thing would be to not continue the studies related to the use of propranolol for PTSD. Many children who have been abused, and especially those who have been sexually abused are unable to move beyond that point, they have emotional and behavioral disturbances for the rest of their lives. They are unable to learn, and if you can't learn to begin with, I think that the issue of blunting old memories is mute. And if your life has consisted of nothing but horrible abuse, again, the blunting is a mute point. These are the kids who drop out of school, get in trouble with the law, and end up in prison, or abusers themselves.
Remember when our society felt it was unethical to keep people in long-term mental health facilities? These people are now our homeless population or in prison. What is ethical about that?
This is a drug that has already been used in children to control blood pressure, so we already have some data related to its use. I'm afraid with the military funding the research, that it's use in children, where it may really help them lead normal lives, may be held up for years, and what a tragedy this would be! mary

[nelsonml2]

The story was a chilling reminder of "A Clockwork Orange" and "The Manchurian Candidate" where reprogramming and deprogramming were experiments conducted by the government. Use of propanalol is nothing short of a chemical lobotomy, which may or may not do permanent damage.

[bergevb]

Emotional Freedom Technique has been helping people suffering from PTSD for many years. For more information and details go to www.emofree.com

[mrdavidson1]

As a nurse who spent 20+ years working with emotionally disturbed children I believe the unethical thing would be to not continue the studies related to the use of propranolol for PTSD. Many children who have been abused, and especially those who have been sexually abused are unable to move beyond that point, they have emotional and behavioral disturbances for the rest of their lives. They are unable to learn, and if you can't learn to begin with, I think that the issue of blunting old memories is mute. And if your life has consisted of nothing but horrible abuse, again, the blunting is a mute point. These are the kids who drop out of school, get in trouble with the law, and end up in prison, or abusers themselves.
Remember when our society felt it was unethical to keep people in long-term mental health facilities? These people are now our homeless population or in prison. What is ethical about that?
This is a drug that has already been used in children to control blood pressure, so we already have some data related to its use. I'm afraid with the military funding the research, that it's use in children, where it may really help them lead normal lives, may be held up for years, and what a tragedy this would be! mary

[jesmith777]

Re: FleaBuster's comments
I'm so sorry to hear about the abuse you have suffered. There IS light at the end of the tunnel. Both Louise and I (and I'm sure others)can vouch for that!

I want to clarify a couple of things. First, I was not a part of the study. I contacted Dr. Mark Barad at UCLA because he had done work with people suffering from PTSD. We utilized the same protocol that was used in Dr. Pitman and Dr. Brunet's study, however I was NOT a part of any study. Second, Dr. Barad told me in his many years of working with people with PTSD, once it is healed, it is healed PERMANENTLY!!! The memories are still there, however the anxiety associated with them, and the subsequent reactivity to other things is GONE!!

I encourage you to contact a doctor in your area who works with PTSD patients. The combination of utilizing propranolol and the additional writing assignments I was given (see earlier posting) absolutly worked for me. The light at the end of the tunnel WILL open into a glorius new day.

[mrdavidson1]

As a nurse who spent 20+ years working with emotionally disturbed children I believe the unethical thing would be to not continue the studies related to the use of propranolol for PTSD. Many children who have been abused, and especially those who have been sexually abused are unable to move beyond that point, they have emotional and behavioral disturbances for the rest of their lives. They are unable to learn, and if you can't learn to begin with, I think that the issue of blunting old memories is mute. And if your life has consisted of nothing but horrible abuse, again, the blunting is a mute point. These are the kids who drop out of school, get in trouble with the law, and end up in prison, or abusers themselves.
Remember when our society felt it was unethical to keep people in long-term mental health facilities? These people are now our homeless population or in prison. What is ethical about that?
This is a drug that has already been used in children to control blood pressure, so we already have some data related to its use. I'm afraid with the military funding the research, that it's use in children, where it may really help them lead normal lives, may be held up for years, and what a tragedy this would be! mary

[mrdavidson1]

As a nurse who spent 20+ years working with emotionally disturbed children I believe the unethical thing would be to not continue the studies related to the use of propranolol for PTSD. Many children who have been abused, and especially those who have been sexually abused are unable to move beyond that point, they have emotional and behavioral disturbances for the rest of their lives. They are unable to learn, and if you can't learn to begin with, I think that the issue of blunting old memories is mute. And if your life has consisted of nothing but horrible abuse, again, the blunting is a mute point. These are the kids who drop out of school, get in trouble with the law, and end up in prison, or abusers themselves.
Remember when our society felt it was unethical to keep people in long-term mental health facilities? These people are now our homeless population or in prison. What is ethical about that?
This is a drug that has already been used in children to control blood pressure, so we already have some data related to its use. I'm afraid with the military funding the research, that it's use in children, where it may really help them lead normal lives, may be held up for years, and what a tragedy this would be! mary

[fleabuster]

re: jesmith777's post,
I wish to congradulate you both on your success in beating the thing that had been beating you for years! and secondly on actually making all the right connections to be able to participate in the program.

i am recently out of a 9 year relationship where i experienced intermittant acute rage accompanied by physical violence ranging from nail's to knive's and everything inbeetween,
i would say one in five of theese episodes would have tell tail signs that the fury was about to be unleashed (and complete CHAOS was to follow)

this hase all been fairly recent and there have been a few other incidents in my life in many years past, but with the most recent came the most personal psycologicle damage and even though i have been clear of this woman for three years it seems impossible to RE-Engage in life, I know what type of person i used to be but not only cant i find that person again i cant even imagine what it would be like anymore and after reading the quote below, i can see a ray of hope! a lite at the end of the tunnel and i want to fing out how i can get closer to the end of that tunnel.

The studies are still in their early stages, so O'Donnell-Jasmin's apparent positive result isn't conclusive, though to her, it's absolutely real.

Asked if there is any sense that she has lost any of her identity, O'Donnell-Jasmin says, "I have regained my identity. What was broken when I was 12 was fixed. They have given me back myself."

[dzfromsc]

"Our breakups, our relationships, as painful as they are, we learn from some of those painful experiences. They make us better people."

I am definately NOT a better person for the pain I live with because of the end of a relationship. NOBODY who knows me would say that what I learned was worth the trauma. If I could erase it, I'd take anything.
The bottom line is that it should be a personal choice. Yes, all drugs have side effects. Every perscription I get has material with it that says "Your doctor has determined that the benefits to you are greater than the chance of side effects."
I can live with side effects; I can't live with the pain.

[consciousnes]

What happens later?
Isn't it always what comes back to fester later that really causes the damage?
People who don't deal with something now have the tendency to react or commit some action later on which is just as damaging to others as well as themselves.
Vietnam vets are still committing suicide after all these years because they cannot deal with what they saw back in the 60's & 70's.
We may weaken our consious memory of something, but it never goes away, whether you know it or not, your mind carries all the memories of what ever you have ever seen, tasted, touched, heard, or smelled.
That is why when you smell a certin perfum or oder, you remember your mother or father's cigar or pipe. The taste of what ever treat you mother use to make for you when you were young, etc.
Drugs can be good, but we should use our minds to control our actions and memories, not temporary drugs.
Face up to what has happened and move on.