Chinese Sub Came Close To U.S. Ships

Navy Commander Says Close Encounter Could Have Triggered 'Unforeseen' Incident

(AP)  A Chinese submarine came close to the USS Kitty Hawk carrier group in the Pacific Ocean last month, a top U.S. naval commander confirmed Tuesday, adding the encounter could have triggered an "unforeseen" incident.

A Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman, however, said she had not heard of such an incident.

The aircraft carrier and its supporting ships were conducting exercises in an unidentified location when the encounter occurred, Adm. William Fallon, the commander of U.S. Pacific Command, told reporters.

The carrier group was not engaged in anti-submarine exercises, but if it had, "and if this Chinese sub came in the middle of this, then it could have escalated into something that could have been very unforeseen," he said.

Fallon, who is in Kuala Lumpur for a 23-nation Chief of Defense Forces meeting, did not give any other details. He was commenting on a report on The Washington Times' Web site that said a Chinese submarine "stalked" the Kitty Hawk and surfaced within torpedo firing range.

The newspaper said the carrier group was operating close to Okinawa at the time of the incident.

"It illustrates the primary reason why we are trying to push, to have better military-to-military relationships" with China, Fallon said.

"Because the fact is that you have military units that operate in close proximity to one another," he said, warning of "the potential for events that would not be what we'd like to see."

In Beijing, Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Jiang Yu could not say if the incident had indeed occurred.

"I have not heard of such a report," she said at a regular news briefing Tuesday. "China has always had a defensive national defense policy. We are an adamant force in maintaining peace and stability in the Asia-Pacific region as well as the world at large," she said.

Fallon's disclosure came at the same time the commander of the U.S. Pacific fleet, Adm. Gary Roughead, was in China overseeing the first ever joint exercise, scheduled to start Nov. 19, between the U.S. and Chinese navies.

"It's a modest search-and-rescue exercise, but it's a start ... so that we can move ahead from what I would characterize as kind of Cold War thinking," Fallon said.

Fallon has visited China three times since taking office about 18 months ago to boost contacts and reduce the potential for miscalculations.

Visits between the Chinese and American militaries dropped off after the collision of a U.S. spy plane and a Chinese fighter jet off China's coast in 2001 but relations have improved recently as Washington cautiously seeks to increase exchanges.

China declined an invitation to attend the Kuala Lumpur meeting, but Fallon said he was hopeful they would in the future.

[lost_seraph]

Anyone besides me think it may have just been you know... a mistake?

They didn't fire on us or anything. They probably surfaced to see what was on their radar, saw it was navy boats, said "oops" and went back on their way.

I dont know what we expect when we're conducting "operations" in foriegn waters. I mean, Chinese subs in South Asian waters, go figure huh?

[tinker3478]

stoeast, whoa up Bubba! Talk about the president, talk about the Democrats, talk about anything you want to EXCEPT the United States Navy. It's gittin' close to butt-whuppin' time when you go there!

[navy36]

Easy every one, an old diesel was sitting near an exercise recording sonar profiles, popped up for a recharge or most likely an emergency and China wants war?

Don%u2019t you think their Navy has to justify their budget? Subs record ships for profiles and a Navy exercise gives you a lot of recordings. They sent an old diesel out, had it sit dead in the water and record away. Their Sub commander is most likely in deep trouble for surfacing and exposing the mission.

As far as all this war talk with China, have any of you been to Chongqing, Singapore, or Beijing. They embrace capitalism better than Russia, heck even France. Can we trust them? No, but war is the last thing on their minds. Manufacturing domination is much more profitable and will keep their leadership in place a lot longer.

And Japan siding with China, do schools teach anything about the Far East.

Lastly, we have several SSN and SSBNs off China at all times. Do we want war with China because of that? No, but you don%u2019t build them to sit tied to a pier.

[cmunit]

America needs a no mercy national security policy. Tolerating the presence of the Chinese sub within visual contact of the Kitty Hawk is contrary to a no mercy national security policy.

Incidents of this type are viewed by our group, PurgeCongress.com, as a threat to America and the free world.

Furthermore, Congress should never allow such to occur without a quick no mercy response.

Purge Congress is onto Congress!

Michael Smith
Purge Congress, Inc.
PurgeCongress.com

[stoeast]

It's really no wonder, the American Navy has become complacent and, quite literally incompetant due to "underfunding" for new technology and the illusion that Nuclear Submarines are the only way to preserve the high-tech toys that they think they need. China and the others...will out-pace us very soon!
As for the incident of late...Adm Fallon down to the skippers of the units involved (Kitty Hawk) as well as the task force submarine commander(s) should all be relieved for derilection of duty!
A "Harsh" and needed example should be set!
mb-Groton, CT "Submarine Capital of the World" maybe.

[trk50]

Please, people...the thought that China would lauch an attack on the US, knowing that we would immediately respond to it with nukes, is absurd. Yes, they have more people, temporarily, is not a threat as the US takes out transport, power, and military objections...as of now, they don't have the capacity to hit cities with nukes, so it aint gonna happen. As one blogger noted, we are China's largest trading partner (they aren't ours, Canada is our largest trading partner), so they would cut off relations with the entire West, not just the US.
They are playing games, and asserting their strength, which is all well and good. And they are showing their weaknesses as well.

If they launched a Pearl Harbor-type attack, they would have sunk the Kitty Hawk, but the other carriers (I believe 8 more), all with nuke capability, would act with our ICBMs and do a little damage to their country. They can't launch a realistic attack on the US...which means "boots on the ground."

[Zakaryw]

The US and China are no where near going to war with each other. First off china is our biggest tradding partner, do you really think that either country would risk sending their economies into a shock. 2nd of all this is a new age where people try to talk about their problems and fix it, obviously China is trying to show the world that they are the new world power, and that their technology is up to par with ours. Although some Cold War issues are still at hand, but China knows that we would rather them be a free democracy than a comunist country, so they are weary when it comes to saying out right, "Yes we did stalk your ships." But if you will only remember a few years ago when our spy plane crashed in China, its not like we were looking to go to War with them, we just wanted to say whats up. The same thing happend here, just the other way around. If anything China needs to be one of our most valued allies in the fight against North Korea's Nuke program, along with Iran. I think China realizes that both of these Nations conquest for a nuke program is bad for both of us. Seriously if we go to War with Iran or Korea we obviously try and keep all of our resources to ourselves exspecialy when we might be dealing with a nuclear war. This is dangerous for both the US and China, so don't count your chicks before the eggs hatch, both of our governments know what they are doing.

[olebd]

We can't go to war against China!

1. China is buying a little bit of us each day as we remain in serious debt.

2. Our precious Wal Marts would instantly have to start shedding stores because of serious supply disruptions of cheap goods thus sending the economy into a tailspin.

[Jasonian18]

unless they stay nuetral simply because they are to close to them to handle it not only would we face that problem but should japan side with them in it they are just as much if not most likely more advanced then us in most of their technologies. we import our technologies from them! we would be dead in the water. and i love this country we are in but i would have to say a war with china would not be good even if it were to spread democracy or slow or stop communism this would also bring about world war 3 no doubt about it a war of billions would be to large for others not to get involved in some way Israel would go to war and the muslims would go to war with each other and there is no doubt it would become nuclear very quickly and im not trying to sound melodramatic im just being practical war with china would spell out endurance and one long war with American's

[Jasonian18]

yes but you must realize that should we go to war with china God Forbid but if we were forced into a war with them we would have the disadvantage. not only do they have millions of more people but because we would have to go across the ocean and attack their people we wouldn't win they have the upper-hand because of having so many people we couldnt take them all out if we wanted to not to mention here at home we would always be on the defensive because they would never stop sending people over to attack us granted we have nuclear weapons oh joy so do they. we have some advance technologies oh joy so does japan who would most likely side with china

[freedom21x]

Radko2:

If the North American Union is reality by 2010, as planned, Mexican trucks with Chinese goods (or troops) will get all the way to Kansas City before facing inspection (and then only by Mexicans).

[radko2]

There is a large faction in the DoD and especially the State Department called Panda Huggers - the folks who believe tha we can be friends and allies with the Chinese and are willing to grab their ankles for them at any chance they get.

Making our secured facilities open to them is one of their modus operandi.
Between our industrial base selling everything in the world to them and getting nothing in return, and our politicians and "statesmen" from both parties acting like third rate morons in their strategic dealing with them, I believe our country might have only 20 years before things blow up with them. And with the crop of leaders that we have now (again, both parties and it has been true for some time) who are unwilling to face a hard fight and take a stand, I don't think that we would win...

Sorry for the pessimistic view but there it is. Unless our leaders get a change of mindset or we get a change of leaders, we're in trouble.

[mickgabe]

T0:mik60487

Then you obviously know that Toshiba was blacklisted in the U.S. For 15 years, for the shipping of the Special C and C machine that machined our special low frequency, multifaced and multi blade silent running speed props, .......that also....left no...heat trail or wake....as..seen by Infrared....and.....photogrametry....?.....

That and the underwater max speed....is still a ...Great Secret......

Observer.....Barking Sands,Hii

[mickgabe]

Well......take look back to Circa early 70's....Location.....Kauai, Hawaii - Barking Sands
Underwater Submarine Warfare Center - Manaa, Hi.....Incident......Russian sub "K" series...top secret "Code Red"...Salvage Operation....disguised....as Manganese Module gathering from sub sea bottom....owned by Howard Hughes.......CIA.." Glomar Explorer" named & commisioned.......SALVAGE....relatively sucessful.....Speculation: Russians did't know what happened....Disapeared off the Map.. ala "USS Thresher" until recovery. Hull had been torpedoed........"Hunter Killer" attack by US sub....which found the Russian's Top Sub....nestled in a trench Offshore....monitoring the war games!.......next...sub destroyed.....How? It also ran past Hydrophones...set up by choppers...for the game....caught the Russian Intrusion! Bam.......

Observer/Barking Sands,Hawaii

[stevek2323]

Relax people...it's just more propoganda bs...
Does anyone think that if the Chinese sub would have opened a missile launch tube door or a torpedo door that we would have seen anything on the news except for the USA helping to locate a missing Chinese sub?
There are 27 USA fast attack subs in the Pacific fleet. They are hunters and I'm sure one was stalking. It's their job...they just don't advertise it.

Remember 9/11 in all reality was 19 guys with a well executed plan...and the powers that "be" have turned it into this nightmare of a country of 300 million people running scared...my toothpaste is now "dangerous"...

Remember the words of Hermann Goring at the Nuremberg Trials:
"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotissm, and exposing the country to greater danger."

Almost sounds like the "debate" before our present fiasco in Iraq...

...or in the words of Chris Rock, "Al-Qaeda...I'm not afraid of Al-Qaeda...I'm afraid of Al-Cracker..."

SteveK-Los Angeles

[prfst]

Mar 22 1982 I believe, sea of Japan Soviet sub stalked Kitty Hawk...... sub surfaced in front of Hawk.... we ran her over...sub towed to port...that is an unforseen incident and one the Chinese may learn the hard way

[mdc76082]

Thank you aswtech and navy36! There's no way in hell that a diesel could have "stalked" a battle group. I sure miss the good'ol days! Now for the rest...
I highly doubt an incident would have triggered WWIII. After all, we've had more significant incidents in the past between nuclear powers and it's worked out. Many the public wouldn't even want to know about. Remember how craze the Soviets in Europe? They were crapping in their drawers thinking we were going to invade at any second. They were always going on alert and we would start it. Look at the DMZ, how many incidents do you think happen there every day! Look at leaving Norfolk and the Russian trawlers would be right out there waiting for you then the next thing you know we'd have a soviet sub following us. You know, we've had high-ranking Chinese and Russian Military personnel on our U.S. bases right here in the US. We should have blown the sub out of the water and said, "oops, next time don't get so *** close!" It wouldn't have sparked WWIII, would have mad some people and diplomats mad, but not a war. This stuff happens every single day people and the media hipes it up so we can all sit here and gripe about it cause we don't have anything else to do in our lives. Right.

[mik60487-2009]

Well,whether or not foreign contract workers from the PRC or India in fact happen to be the culprits information theft is a given in matters of technology. The Japanese whose fine efforts during the 1980's managed to share with the then Soviets machine tool technology used to turn advanced submarine screw (propellor) technology over contributed to problems of risk management is now a moot point.

[exusmcsgt]

alrudy2005-

You are obviously a Rumsfeld disciple.....

[rocinante6]

Thanks, navy36 and aswtech, for the (non-editorial) scuttlebutt. I suspected that the journos got it wrong.

As that noted right-wing conspiracy-theorist(ha!) Garrison Keillor said in The Book of Guys, "Why is it that, when you read a story in the paper on subject you actually know something about, they get it two-thirds wrong?"