Wiccan Symbol Placed On War Memorial

Pentacle Not Previously Among 'Approved' Religious Decorations At Military Cemeteries

(AP)  The widow of a soldier killed in Afghanistan saw a Wiccan symbol placed on a memorial plaque for her husband Saturday, after fighting the federal government for more than a year over the emblem.

Roberta Stewart, widow of Sgt. Patrick Stewart, and Wiccan leaders said it was the first government-issued memorial plaque with a Wiccan pentacle — a five-pointed star enclosed in a circle. More than 50 friends and family dedicated the plaque at Northern Nevada Veterans Cemetery, about 30 miles east of Reno.

They praised Gov. Kenny Guinn for his role in getting the Nevada Office of Veterans Services to issue the plaque in September. The agency cited its jurisdiction over maintenance of the state cemetery.

The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs recognizes more than 30 symbols, including more than a dozen variations of the Christian cross and the atomic whirl used by atheists, but not the pentacle.

VA officials have said they are rewriting rules for approving emblems, but the process requires a public comment period.

Last month, Americans United for Separation of Church and State sued the VA on behalf of Stewart and others for its refusal to include the Wiccan emblem.

"Our people are on the front line in the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, and it's not right they're not getting equal treatment," said the Rev. Selena Fox, one of the Wiccan organizers of the event.

About 1,800 active-duty service members identify themselves as Wiccans, according to 2005 Defense Department statistics. Wiccans worship the Earth and believe they must give to the community. Some consider themselves "white" or good witches, pagans or neo-pagans.

Stewart and four other soldiers died Sept. 25, 2005, when their Chinook helicopter was shot down in Afghanistan.

[Syndicate]

Beuracracy if it doesn't kill you, you'll die waiting in line.

[rafterman1]

Hey, if you died for your country, you can have any d*mn symbol you want.

[pudd54]

Typical US thinking, you have the freedom to follow any religion, as long as it isn't Wiccan or involves gay marriage.

[red1530]

I think the symbol should be allowed even though I disagree with their religion.

[olebd]

Happy Kwanza everybody...I-I mean Christmas, NO I mean Ramadan, Hanukah.....ahh forget it.

[johnworthw]

Hey, msspurlock, all the Wiccan women I know are really attractive, and while some of them are bi, I don't know any lesbians. BTW, I'm no religion at all.

[feelfree1]

These widdows are right. A pentagram is very inaprropriate.

It should have been a "Star of David" to represent what they really died for. Either that, or an Exxon logo.

[feelfree1]

Woops, sorry, I jumped the gun on that one.

[phil-in-fin]

What about if I believe that Michael Jackson is the Second Coming of Christ?

Or that I believe in The Force, that Obi wan Kenobi is actually Holly Than Thou Ben?

Or that "The Family" is my way of life and that I should have a picture of Charles Manson on my headstone?

Or a UFO Religion, perhaps a carving of the Hale-Bopp Comet?

I am going to sue because Fred Flintstone was given as an option!

[newsthought1]

msspurlock posts:
"More moonbats. These fat, greasy, usually lesbian witches give me a laugh."

Such ignorance, intolerance, and arrogance. What symbol do you want on your headstone, msspurlock, a swaztika? This is America, land of the FREE, where people can practice whatever religion they want. I agree with Rafterman- you give your life for your country, it's your life, it's your headstone, it's your call. You deserve to be remembered how you want to be, no matter what other people think. Some people will give you the respect you deserve, fallen hero. The heck with the rest.

[phil-in-fin]

newsthought1

Now that you mentioned it, why not a swastika?

Perhaps, if I followed something that used a symbol that looked like swastika to you, but to me it had deep spiritual meaning?

And I argued that since it was my religious choice, that I should have it on my headstone, because I died for my country, would this be acceptable to you then?

Just because I say so?

Did those who spoke about and then wrote it into the Constitution have Wicca on their mind when thought of the Freedom of Religion ideal?

Are there to be no limits?

[tristanrchrd-2009]

Why on earth would you not want to allow someone who has served and died for thier country the religious symbol of thier choice on thier grave stone.

Given the fact that the U.S. has freedom of religion, it should be any religion not just what the bible bashing born again Christians think is right and as always Wiccans are branded as evil doers etc, get a life, learn to understand something before you comment and realise that if you allow Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, Christian or Buddist symbology then you should also allow Wiccan symbology and not adopt this hypocritical, narrow mindedness that we see here.

Come on America, we are better than this, let these folks who have served and made the ultimate sacrifice have what they are asking for, it is not going to hurt you in any way.

:-(

[baye13]

Americans showing their ignorance once again.
As a Pagan.( Not Wiccan) I feel my beliefs should have the same rights as any other.
Inappropriate? So using a symbol of someone's execution is OK?
Who are you to judge what is appropriate or not?
If someone what ever religion they follow should be honored with a symbol of their faith.
You so-called Christians should be careful with people like Fred Phelps and Pat Robertson representing your religion.

[nonnie_571]

GOD created the earth and everything in it..I am a Child of God so i am a CHISTAIN.I believe that its in your heart to prove who you really are dont you.For the soilders that have died God bless them And we should never forget.

[phil-in-fin]

So, the question comes down to this: are Wicca and Pagan religions?

Are you, or I, objective enough to decide?

Not at all: that's why we have governmental institutions

And speaking of ignorance, Baye13: Fred Phelps and Pat Robertson are idiots, so if you are allowed to paint all Christians with that same brush, then I am allowed to paint you as a believer in Magic, which is hardly grounds for a religious belief.

[phil-in-fin]

Fred Phelps and Pat Robertson do not represent my beliefs ...

God does ...

[tristanrchrd-2009]

Paganism (from Latin paganus, meaning "a country dweller" or "civilian") is a term which, from a western perspective, has come to connote a broad set of spiritual or religious beliefs and practices of natural or polytheistic religions.

Wicca is a Neopagan religion and a religious movement found in various countries throughout the world. It was first popularised in 1954 by a British civil servant named Gerald Gardner after the British Witchcraft Act was repealed.

This should broadly help anyone who is not Wiccan or Pagan and has any questions about what Wicca is and what Paganism means.

To many people it means different things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page and search on the specific topics for better explanations.

[paganchild]

I didnt realize freedom was only for the choosen few. These men died for YOUR freedoms and now you want to take THEIR rights to freedom away simply because you dont understand their beliefs. Lets open our minds people. Fear of what you dont understand.

[Geneius]

A person's beliefs are more important than any religion. If you find others who believe as you do, then a religion is born. The thing about a religion that is wrong is their belief that their religion is the only way to go and if you don't believe as we do, we will condemm you, try to destroy you and even kill you. Millions have been killed in the name of religion.
Believe as you want but leave those who believe differently alone.

[mdc76082]

I guess just plain dying for the country you love isn't enough anymore. Now I have to have the same religious beliefs as everyone else. Our forefathers would roll over in their graves to see the ignorance we built up in over 200 years of democracy. Yes that's right "DEMOCRACY". Bigotry is alive and well, and still raising it's ugly head in the USA! The petty things we argue and divide ourselves over makes me sick. What ever happened to "regardless of race, religion or creed"? Soilder's, sailors airmen and marines don't represent what "you" believe they swore an oath to defend the "Constitution" against all enemies foreign and domestic. Now we've become their domestic enemy that we will not let something as petty as a religious symbol of their belief be etched on the headstone. I'm glad I spent 22 years defending bigotry like that. Makes me feel really proud. How sad.

[ecuadoriana]

Christians seem to think it is respectable sign of their belief to wear a symbol of a man's execution around their necks, but wiccans can't wear a symbol of a star? The star doesn't represent an ignorant, murderous mob mentality! Phil-in-Fin suggested that god represents his belief. Fair enough, so how does a symbol of an execution represent god? It represents the murder of Jesus & he didn't create the universe. If Jesus had been burned at the stake would christians today be sporting gold stakes around their necks? Just wondering.

Phil-in-Fin, yes, if you truly believe that MJ is the second coming & live your life faithfuly & honestly to that belief- then sure, wear a silver glove! Wiccans don't mind, we're not threatened by that. That is one of the differences between wiccan beliefs & christianity. Christians have a hard time considering that there may be another ways. Wiccans accept everyone as they are.

Question for all you god/jesus worshiping christians: Next time you're in a church why not throw some trash all over the floor, toss your cigarettes on the alter, & pour chemicals in the baptism fountain? Sounds really sacrilegious, huh? Well, ask yourselves why you are giving so much respect to a man-made building? Pagans respect the "church not made by hand". We would never consider tossing our fast food wrappers on the ground & murdering animals for sport. A church is only a building. The earth deserves more respect than a building!

[Geneius]

"The word "swastika" comes from the Sanskrit svastika - "su" meaning "good," "asti" meaning "to be," and "ka" as a suffix.

Until the Nazis used this symbol, the swastika was used by many cultures throughout the past 3,000 years to represent life, sun, power, strength, and good luck."

Because the nazis profaned it, should it lose it's original meaning? How about the cross and the Spanish inquisition.

[phil-in-fin]

To Geneius1

You need to rethink your perspective: by your definition, a cult is a religion.

To ecuadoriana

Since consensus cannot be reached, then why have any symbols at all?

By arguing that a Pagan symbol should have equal footing as a Christian one, you are making a political statement. If you are as benevolent as you say, then why are two women suing?

That is purely a political move.

If the people decided that Pagan was a religion, there would be no need to have this discussion.

There are good and bad Christians, and good and bad Pagans.

Also, this idea that the Christian cross is a symbol of "a man's execution," is a little bit misleading, don't you think?

The Christian cross symbolizes the persecution of Christ because of our sins, His execution for all our sins, and His resurrection to show us that our sins can be forgiven.

By the way, I also served in the Army and in the UN, so does this make me more right?

[annie_roxx2]

I think some of you missed the point of the cross...it isn't about the "execution" of Jesus, it's about the Resurrection. Believers follow Jesus, not Fred Phelps or Pat Robertson. They are the worst representation of Christianity, spewing hatred and intolerance. People like to point at them and say that's the reason they don't believe... Jesus didn't teach the things they say. If you want a good teacher, listen to Joyce Meyer or Joel Osteen. Something else I think is interesting - Focus on the Family and others like them, like Fred and Pat, are trying to prevent the LGBT community of citizens from being treated equally under the law, siting passages in the Bible as their reason, yet they don't boycott and try to legislate Wicca, psychics, or any number of other beliefs and practices, about which, there are passages in the Bible, as well. It isn't that those so-called Christians believe it's alright to be a witch, it's just that they're more afraid of homosexuals? It all comes down to ignorance.

[phil-in-fin]

annie_roxx2

Well said ... I am in absolute agreement.

My Pastor never stands in the pulpit to bring others down.

If he did, no one but the nutcases would go.

[starwinde]

While Wicca is a relatively new religion, age does not impact validity. Whether one honors God, Allah, Jesus, Buddha, or Goddess, the name by which the Divine is addressed is merely a name for a concept greater than our capacity to comprehend.

All belief systems have a set of principals. They have rituals, held at points of the liturgical calendar accepted as days important to the faith. In this, too, Wicca and NeoPaganism are similar to other faiths.

It was said, by someone far wiser than I, that there are many paths up the mountain, but all have one goal: to reach the top. So too is Wicca, in its search for union with the Divine.

Fear is the mind-killer, that which we do not understand we fear. An internet search on the terms Wicca, Paganism and NeoPaganism reveal a wealth of information. Through which, we come to understanding and acceptance.

I support the actions of Roberta Stewart, Karen DiPolito and Circle Sanctuary in their efforts to gain recognition to a symbol of our beliefs, the pentagram. Vilified by Hollywood, misunderstood by those of other faiths, the pentagram too has a long history. used by Masons, Rosicruscians and others. To Wiccans and others who follow Earth-based spiritual beliefs, it represents Spirit over matter.

It is only right that Patrick Stewart should be allowed this symbol in death, as indeed his spirit has triumphed over matter at this sad end. May the lawsuit come to successful result.

Starwind Evensong
Fort Lauderdale, FL

[phil-in-fin]

To StarwindE

Wicca is not a "new" religion: it is animism and naturism, pure and simple.

Religions emerged from these two secular belief's because people tired of the spiritualist's game of magic and witchcraft, and their empty promises found within "the theology of success."

If you are happy with this, so be it.

[Geneius]

phil-in-fin:

From Wikipedia:

"In common usage, "cult" has a negative connotation, and is generally applied to a group by its opponents, for a variety of reasons. Understandably, most, if not all, groups that are called "cults" deny this label. Some anthropologists and sociologists studying cults have argued that no one yet has been able to define %u201Ccult%u201D in a way that enables the term to identify only groups that have been claimed as problematic."

I think you need to inform these people that you are able to define "cult".

[phil-in-fin]

Geneius1

Well, I am an anthropologist.

I can define the word cult perfectly, even without using Wikipedia.

Though they are not my speciality, I have studied two cults thus far in my career: Solar Temple (Quebec) and Micmacs of Finland (Finland). The former, archival, the latter, fieldwork.

A controlling group of four or five members (sometimes called a "star" group) telling others what they must do, who they are allowed (not allowed) to see, with pooling of resources for the "star" group's benefit, with reference to an organized religion by which they have positioned themselves to be its counterculture.

There is usually a liminal stage.

The main difference between a cult and a counterculture; the "star" group. Without question.

I am not calling Wicca a cult, never did.

I only said that you should rethink your perspective.

Wikipedia is at least a start ...

[seaspirit-2009]

I served this nation in the U.S. Navy for 20 years. I continue to serve as a civil servant to this day. I served to ensure religious freedom for ALL Americans... ALL! Now you have the audacity to say I shouldn't be allowed the symbol of my FAITH on my stone when my days are done because it isn't your symbol of choice? We faught the Taliban in Afghanistan... we can fight you here! ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN OR DOMESTIC!

[squiz2]

"Wicca is a relatively new religion"

Wicca and paganism are not by any means new religions. Paganism could quite possibly be the oldest religion. Hell, a lot of the holidays that we celebrate were stolen from the Pagans and changed. Take Halloween for example, it was stolen from the Pagans by the Romans who altered it to fit their religious beliefs. Paganism appeared before Christianity, it's just that the Christians stole and tried to destroy the religion. Most people see Paganism in the completely wrong light, thinking that we sacrifice animals and do evil magic spells. It's all backwards. We are caring people who focus on Mother Earth and it's creatures. People should educate themselves on religion before condemning it. There are many misconceptions, one of the biggest being the symbol itself. It is a PENTACLE, not PENTAGRAM. The pentagram is flipped upside down, with the point facing the ground. It is used more for satanism. Ignorance is bliss, but I for one am sick of being asked if I am a Satanist or Jewish when people see my pentacle.

[phil-in-fin]

To squiz2

Fight.

Blow something up.

Make a real statement.

See how tolerent you sound when people are having a normal discussion about something close to your belief?

Shall we flush a few more Qu'ans down the toilet, a symbol of some American's religion, and watch the fireworks?

Maybe a few more cartoons of Muhammad ought to it, huh?

To squiz2

"People should educate themselves on religion before condemning it." Calling Halloween a Christian holiday, well how educated are you?

And if people misunderstand what your PENTACLE means, why not be tolerant and simply explain it, rather than be angry and condeming.

[pendragon679]

From the 1st Amendment to the Constitution: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;..."

Thus the government does NOT, and never has had, the right nor the authority to make determinations regarding the validity of one religion over another. This is why our fathers, grandfathers, and countless others fought and died. Phil-in-fin, I'm not challenging your knowledge of anthropology or your religious beliefs; but your knowledge of the Constitution could stand a little propping up.

[phil-in-fin]

To pendragon679

You are right, on that point, I must give way ...

It is true that I am fluent on the various points of the Constitution, however, I am not so fluent on the intended meaning of our forefathers, and I think that that is the real issue here.

That is why we have a Supreme Court, isn't it? To help us out when we have discussions like this?

For example, I am not so sure that they meant in the Second Amendment, .50 calibre machine guns ... of course, others have said that on even that point I am wrong ...

[squiz2]

phil-in-fin

I never said that Halloween was a Christian holiday, I simply said that it began as a Pagan holiday and was taken and changed by the Romans. And even after re-reading my post to look for anything that came across as andgry or condemning, I can't find where you're coming from with that. If you thought my capitalizing some words made them angry, I only capitalized them to inflect the difference. You can't really tell emotion in text, now can you?

[phil-in-fin]

To squiz2

Sorry about that.

When I read "I for one am sick of being asked if I am a Satanist or Jewish when people see my pentacle" I thought you were being rather harsh, maybe not condemning, but certainly impatient.

And the bit about Halloween, it just seemed that that was what your discourse was all about, so if I put one and one together and got three, that was certainly my mistake.

I agree with you, that I should play nice or not all ...

[squiz2]

phil-in-fin

No harm done! I was just trying to say that the majority of holidays that we celebrate (regardless of religion) began as Pagan celebrations and festivals (Halloween, Valentine's Day, May Day...). Roman Catholicism is deep rooted in Paganism. Hell, they found a Pagan burial ground underneath the Vatican! It just seems to me that a lot of Christians have the wrong idea about Paganism and don't know that they owe a lot to the religion.

[phil-in-fin]

To squiz2

Thanks for accepting my apologies.

And you are absolutely right, that many people do not understand that other person's religion, and when someone asks you about your pentacle, just be nice and explain it :-)

Whatever happens with this issue, that in the end should or should not pentacles be placed on headstones, we should try to understand our perspectives.

I learned alot from you guys in this discussion. Thanks!

Actually, to make your point even more poignant, squiz2, many Christians do not understand Christanity, and I am speaking as a born-again Pentecostal.

Sad, but oh so true ...

[catscreep]

I think many of the comments on this story, although quite interesting to read, have wandered away from the point. The point is that Wicca is a recognized religion by the US Military. And as such it deserves all of the same rights afforded to any other religion recognized by the US Military. The Department of Veteran Affairs should abide by the same criteria as the military they serve. These people have every right to sue the government for discriminating against their religion. And that is exactly what this is about. Other articles that I have read about this have stated that other religious symbols applied for after the women applied for the pentacle have been approved before it. Why? Although the reason could very well be a simple beaurocratic mixup it is still wrong, and needs to be addressed. The women involved did try to push this issue through the normal channels, but without any success. In this country, when all other means fail you, you are allowed to bring the matter to the courts to decide. Our Founding Fathers were men wise enough to know that they didn't know everything. Did they have Wicca or Neo-Paganism in mind when they wrote about freedom of religion? Who knows? But the fact that they wrote it the way that they did, leaving it so open, tells me that they weren't thinking about excluding them either.

[jadelady-2009]

The whole reason this has gone to court is that Wiccans/Pagans have been trying for nearly 10 years now to get the pentacle on the VA's list of approved symbols. During that time, six other symbols have been approved. One of them, the Sikh emblem, was approved in just over 2 weeks from the date of application.

During this time, several applications have been submitted to the VA asking for approval of the pentacle. The VA has stalled repeatedly, even while approving other symbols. This is, indeed, discrimination against a certain religious belief.

It is sad and intolerable that Wiccans/Pagans can serve their country, even die for it, and yet not be allowed the symbol of their religion on their grave marker.

[wvarmyrn65]

It's very sad that these two wives have to fight for this. I am Wiccan and I have served in the Armed Forces for over 17yrs. I don't readily express my religious preference but it does occasionally come up in conversation and I can tell you that the intolerance expressed by some of my own unit members is scary. How can you be a soldier and be willing to give your life for freedom and democracy yet want to deny it to a fellow soldier? It just doesn't make sense to me. I think that is one of the things I like so much about the Wiccan religion is that it teaches tolerance and acceptance.

[sty1]

This is the symbol for those who follow the devil. Their are a little over a million of us angels on earth now to punish these fools and we are doing a very good job.

[grumpas]

The ignorance of some Christian's never ceases to astound me! I would assume that terryates considers himself a Christian and he acts like the typical one! He says he is an angel and is going to punish the wicked (I am really terrified)! Wiccan's are not devil worshipers you have to believe there is one before you can be one! That is a common misconception amoung righteous bigots! That stems from intolerance!

[dhague]

I find it hard to believe that this is an issue in this day and age.

We are taught that the US was founded in part by people who left Europe for "freedom of religion" in the New World, and Americans tout "diversity" as something of great importance. Yet the Federal government drags its feet.

Many (like "terryates") make it clear that they believe that faiths other than their own are "wrong" even when their own knowledge of the other faith is incomplete and inaccurate. This attitude is doubtless a factor in the delays Mrs Stewart faced in obtaining appropriate commemorating of her husband's sacrifice.

It's clear to me that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" means that it is not up to the Government to decide which religions are "real" or "valid" and which are not.

I served in the US military for over 27 years, and one of the things I believed I was doing was defending the right of others to worship (or not worship) and and conduct their lives according to their faith as they saw fit. I'd renew my oath to defend - with my life if necessary - that basic freedom today. I'd even defend "terryates" right to express an opinion which I find personally objectionable.

[alimech]

Just a few Christian Adaptioms of Pagan/Wiccan Holidays

Holloween = All Hallows Eve (Christian), Samhain (Pagan)
Ostera (Pagan) = Easter (Christian) Pagans celebrated this holiday with colored eggs and rabbits.
Christmas (Christian), Yule(Pagan)
Christmas Wreath and trees...Pagans honor all life, and would never cut down a living tree to bring it inside their home. Pagans decorated trees in honor of the changing season, winter solstice, and to help the animals and birds survive the cold.

and..in case you forgot..Heathens were originally 'those who lived on the heath'..country folk who did not get news, etc .and now for whatever reason, means Pagan

Blessed Be

[gmond]

Goddess only knows why Wiccans would choose a pentacle for their religious symbol in the first place...

[antoniof123]

We are in an age where we have even more hate and greed. The religious leaders are more spiteful and steal and molest our children along with the politicans and we argue about a symbol. Well, have at it becasue the people who are fighting right now should never have been sent there. Remember it was all a lie and now you are still convinced that we should be fighting. How little you remember our leaders put our fighting force in harms way for nothing. Thank you for all that you are doing to remember them.

[johnworthw]

Hi, terryates, I'm going to assume you're Christian and go from there. I just wanted to let you know that all of the Wiccans I know are far closer to leading the 'ideal' Christian life that the vast majority of Christians I know. Christ taught of loving and forgiveness, yet you take it upon yourself to punish those who disagree with you. How Christian is that? Also, the symbol that 'devil worshipers' use is an inverted star, not a pentacle. Before appointing yourself judge, jury, executioner, and GOD, please get your facts straight.

[randalds]

All I can say is BRAVO! Good for them! We have the freedom to worship (or not worship) as we please in this country and these men and women are fighting for that right too. If someone in this country wants to have a church that worships dogs or cats I wouldn't have any problem with it or with them putting their church symbol on their tombstones. It's one of the things that makes us America!

[Syndicate]

About dam time.