Nov. 9, 2006

Tillman Probe Reveals Startling Details

One Shooter In Friendly-Fire Death Of Pat Tillman Had 'Hazy' Vision From Laser Eye Surgery

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(AP)  In a remote and dangerous corner of Afghanistan, under the protective roar of Apache attack helicopters and B-52 bombers, special agents and investigators did their work.

They walked the landscape with surviving witnesses. They found a rock stained with the blood of the victim. They re-enacted the killings — here the U.S. Army Rangers swept through the canyon in their Humvee, blasting away; here the doomed man waved his arms, pleading for recognition as a friend, not an enemy.

"Cease fire, friendlies, I am Pat (expletive) Tillman, damn it!" he shouted, again and again.

The latest inquiry into Tillman's death by friendly fire should end next month; authorities have said they intend to release to the public only a synopsis of their report. But The Associated Press has combed through the results of more than two years of investigations — reviewed thousands of pages of internal Army documents, interviewed dozens of people familiar with the case — and uncovered some startling findings.

One of the four shooters, Staff Sgt. Trevor Alders, had recently had PRK laser eye surgery. Although he could see two sets of hands "straight up," his vision was "hazy," he said. In the absence of "friendly identifying signals," he assumed Tillman and an allied Afghan who also was killed were enemy.

Another, Spc. Steve Elliott, said he was "excited" by the sight of rifles, muzzle flashes and "shapes." A third, Spc. Stephen Ashpole, said he saw two figures, and just aimed where everyone else was shooting.

Squad leader Sgt. Greg Baker had 20-20 eyesight, but claimed he had "tunnel vision." Amid the chaos and pumping adrenaline, Baker said he hammered what he thought was the enemy but was actually the allied Afghan fighter next to Tillman who was trying to give the Americans cover: "I zoned in on him because I could see the AK-47. I focused only on him."

All four failed to identify their targets before firing, a direct violation of the fire discipline techniques drilled into every soldier.

There's more:

  • Tillman's platoon had nearly run out of vital supplies, according to one of the shooters. They were down to the water in their Camelbak drinking pouches, and were forced to buy a goat from a local vendor. Delayed supply flights contributed to the hunger, fatigue and possibly misjudgments by platoon members.

  • A key commander in the events that led to Tillman's death both was reprimanded for his role and meted out punishments to those who fired, raising questions of conflict of interest.

  • A field hospital report says someone tried to jump-start Tillman's heart with CPR hours after his head had been partly blown off and his corpse wrapped in a poncho; key evidence including Tillman's body armor and uniform was burned.

    Investigators have been stymied because some of those involved now have lawyers and refused to cooperate, and other soldiers who were at the scene couldn't be located.

    Three of the four shooters are now out of the Army, and essentially beyond the reach of military justice.

    Taken together, these findings raise more questions than they answer, in a case that already had veered from suggestions that it all was a result of the "fog of war" to insinuations that criminal acts were to blame.

    The Pentagon's failure to reveal for more than a month that Tillman was killed by friendly fire have raised suspicions of a coverup. To Tillman's family, there is little doubt that his death was more than an innocent mistake.

    One investigator told the Tillmans that it hadn't been ruled out that Tillman was shot by an American sniper or deliberately murdered by his own men — though he also gave no indication the evidence pointed that way.

    "I will not assume his death was accidental or 'fog of war,"' said his father, Pat Tillman Sr. "I want to know what happened, and they've clouded that so badly we may never know."

    And so, almost two years after three bullets through the forehead killed the star defensive back — a man who President Bush would call "an inspiration on and off the football field" — the fourth investigation began.

    This time, the investigators are supposed to think like prosecutors:

  • Who fired the shots that killed Pat Tillman, and why?

  • Who insisted Tillman's platoon split and travel through dangerous territory in daylight, against its own policy? Who let the command slip away and chaos engulf the unit?

  • And perhaps most of all: Was a crime committed?

    The long and complicated story of Pat Tillman's death and the investigations it spawned began five years ago, in the smoking ruins of the World Trade Center.

    "It is a proud and patriotic thing you are doing," Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld wrote to Tillman in 2002, after Tillman — shocked and outraged by the Sept. 11 attacks — turned down a multimillion-dollar contract with the Arizona Cardinals to join the elite Army Rangers.

    The San Jose, Calif. native enlisted with his brother Kevin, who gave up his own chance to play professional baseball. The Tillmans were deployed to Iraq in 2003, then sent to Afghanistan.

    The mission of their "Black Sheep" platoon in April 2004 sounded straightforward: Divide a region along the Pakistan border into zones, then check each grid for insurgents and weapons. They were to clear two zones and then move deeper into Afghanistan.

    But a broken-down Humvee known as a Ground Mobility Vehicle, or GMV, stalled the unit on an isolated road. A mechanic couldn't fix it, and a fuel pump flown in on a helicopter didn't help.

    Hours passed. Enemy fighters watched invisibly, plotting their ambush.

    Tillman's platoon must have presented an inviting target. There were 39 men — including six allied Afghan fighters trained by the CIA — and about a dozen vehicles.

    Continued



    ©MMVI, The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

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    by luvny-2009 November 9, 2006 10:23 AM PST
    Cover up cover up cover up...this is a pefect example of all that has gone on for the last 6 years. This man gave up everything for what he thought was best and this is how we treat his family. To the Tillman Family, I am so sorry not only for your loss but for the lies and how Pat's memory was treated.
    Reply to this comment
    by tinker3478 November 9, 2006 11:02 AM PST
    The tragedy is that of the 3,000+ Americans and countless thousands of Afghanis and Iraqis who have died in this mess, the Tillman incident is only one of many. National Guard troops were never meant to be used in the way they have been; at best, they are weekend warriors, fine and brave men and women though they are. Many of the regular troops, again fine and brave, enlisted with the idea they would never see combat. My nephew spent his entire tour beyond basic training at Fort Hood, Texas a few years before 9/11. Facing real bullets in a life or death situation is entirely different from sitting at home speculating about where they went wrong. It's easy to say Sgt. So-and-so didn't follow his training, yada, yada when we weren't there. I don't know where their minds were that day, what they perceived, how pumped they were. I'm sorry for all of them chiefly because they never should have been there to start with.

    These people who say they're glad we're in Iraq because they don't want the terrorists at home are foolish, selfish, and deceived. In the first place, anyone who accepts someone else's son or daughter dying in their place is pond scum. The terrorists have had open access to our borders since the Bush family brought us NAFTA. Last, the people masterminding all this mess live, move, and have their being in the CIA as much as anywhere else. I'm more afraid of them than I am a terrorist. Our personal liberties have never been more eroded.
    Reply to this comment
    by random_radar November 9, 2006 11:15 AM PST
    amen, Tinker3478!
    Reply to this comment
    by j_flood November 9, 2006 11:18 AM PST
    There is a name on the Viet Nam wall - Frank Dunford. He was a classmate of mine who left school early to "do what was right" he said. After nearly two years in Viet Nam he was a Staff Sergeant and he was killed by friendly fire. No one investigated his death or treated it other than a death. With over 50 thousand names on the wall he dissolved into marble murkiness. The sergeant who accompanied him home told us that his patrol was re-entering their fire base and some new kid opened fire, and the rest joined in out of fear. When will they ever learn. When will WE ever learn. I know I won't forget Frank Dunford, and I won't forget Pat Tillman.
    Reply to this comment
    by vberry123 November 9, 2006 11:39 AM PST
    I would like to commend the thoughtful comments of J_Flood. I volunteered to go to Iraq with the 234th Signal BN for what I thought was a good cause. The locals I interacted with were so generous and warm when we first got there, sharing tea, smiles and asking me why on earth I wasn't married with kids. Their demeanor and their looks changed over the months. Ironically, the only "true" news we got was form the "Stars and STrips" paper because CNN was full of ommisions and lies. My gunner's 20year old brother Cpl Drew Uhles died on the Syrian Border, weeks from coming home from his SECOND Marine tour. What a waste of money and many many lives - SSGt BErry
    Reply to this comment
    by flucero219 November 9, 2006 12:55 PM PST
    It's important to find out what really happen to satisfy the family's suspicions, even if they are unfounded. Do they think that someone had it out for him? Did they think the military wanted to use Pat as a martyr? What then? His mom and dad are simply upset that their son, whom they had such aspirations for, wouldn't have decided to 'throw his life away'. I'm so sure of this. What mom or dad wouldn't prefer to have their son alive and well, but what they are doing is trying to find blame where none will be found. The soldiers that shot him were in the heat of battle. They had to make quick decisions. They weren't trigger happy. Even if they did have a vendetta against Pat, they wouldn't kill him for the whole world to see. Instead of recovering from the traumatic experience of combat, they have to answer questions to defend their own lives against imprisonment. In the eyes of the Pat's parents, and people like Cindy She-han, they're already guilty... and only because there MUST be someone to blame.
    Reply to this comment
    by alphaa10-2009 November 9, 2006 1:45 PM PST

    Bush has said repeatedly he accepts responsibility for matters like this, so why has the Tillman case developed into such a fiasco of finger-pointing and "every-man-for-himself"? Didn't Rumsfeld want the truth? Apparently not-- despite direct appeals from the Tillman family, the truth about Tillman's death was inconvenient for even a man who stated he admired Tillman's courage.

    Details of the truth took literal years to leak out, and the Army had to be jump-started repeatedly to proceed in its "deliberations". This gives all the appearances of a military command dragged kicking and screaming toward some unpleasant realizations.

    Comparing administrative handling of the Tillman case to a game of career-risk "hot potato!" is most apt-- leaving the Tillmans and the American people not only saddened by the loss of Tillman, but convinced the military is anything but mission-focused.

    Lack of mission-focus not only obstructed the Tillman investigation(s), but is also an apt metaphor for the whole Bush Iraq misadventure. Begun at the insistence of Bush, Iraq also involved splitting our forces and shooting blindly in all directions. This is an exceptionally low point-- among many others-- for leadership from the Bush administration.
    Reply to this comment
    by drmikesecman November 9, 2006 2:12 PM PST
    I am a US Marine Veteran who was in the Middle East back in the early 80's. I am not going to bash the military or our leaders or the United States, War is War. It is not what you see on TV. War is pure hell and carnage. Brave men and women die, civilians die. As long as humans are, well, humans, with ideology, religion, politics and just plain greed, wars will always be. I was a "Shooter"/"Hunter", I volunteered, I did my job. Some people say I was nothing more than a paid, trained murderer, So be it. I am proud of my service, and I am proud of everyone who went before, and those who have come after. Just no more cover ups, no lies, just the truth. A lot of heart ache, a lot of problems and BS would not happen if the Truth was given right out in the open. Friendly Fire happens and it will happen again. Pat Tillman was a great and unselfish man. He served with an elite unit of Rangers I am proud to call my brothers in arms. He was killed performing his duty. It does not lessen his valor or purpose by th fact he was killed by friendly fire. But, it spits on his grave and every fighting man or women who wore the uniform and are slumbering under a sea of white stone, by lies. Semper Fi, and Happy Birthday to the U.S.M.C. and Happy Veterans Day Brothers and Sisters. We have earned it!
    Reply to this comment
    by ibkirstie66 November 9, 2006 2:22 PM PST
    Unless we see an interview with two corroborating eyewitnesses of Pat Tillmans death, I doubt the truth will ever be known. I feel tremendous sympathy and compassion for the Tillman family. My Brother had served three tours to Iraq during this war. He is career Navy. I thank God, every time he returns stateside safely.

    I know first hand what military cover up looks like and feels like. My first husband, Kevin Andrew Johnson, also served in the Navy, was killed in an "Military Mishap", 17 Nov. 1991, deemed pilot error. Everything from finding the missing HM-53 Helo, to the JAG report issued some 18 months later, was a series of SNAFU's. If he had been a civilian and this "mishap" had happened, heads would have rolled until every question was answered truthfully.

    I still have great respect for our military. What I don't understand is, why all the cover up and red tape. Can't someone, anyone, come forward for Kevin and for Pat and say, "I screwed up". "It was ultimately my fault". "I'm sorry". That's all I've ever wanted and I think it might be all the Tillmans need to hear.
    Reply to this comment
    by llfarrow November 9, 2006 2:25 PM PST
    I'm not sure that publicizing these things does anyone any good. Or maybe it's just the way it's done. I believe the family has a right to know, and I certainly believe those involved should be dealt with appropriately. However, all the majority of America needs to know is that he died serving his country. Period. A lot of the interest is just voyeurism, which just cheapens his death.
    Oh, by the way: I'm not buying that "I had hazy vision from eye surgery." I was in the military for 14 years and I would submit to you that Laser Eye Surgery is NOT done in theater, and the soldier would not have been returned to duty until he had properly healed from the surgery, which means his vision would have cleared. So if the Army is going to publicize the grizzly details, at least give us something believable.
    Reply to this comment
    by luvuall November 9, 2006 2:28 PM PST
    After the US saved the world twice WW1 and 2 all us americans should have had a father like George W`S where dad would say you take drugs and get drunk and let someone else take care of it. Watch our borders noway when they came on S11 George W. was seeing how to get into Iraq to make a fortune in defence spending kick backs then he washes his hands after the sacrifice of others. My father said the good die young unfortunely he was right Tillman proved that
    Reply to this comment
    by ey200 November 9, 2006 3:07 PM PST
    I was in the Gulf War in 90/91. I've seen some very disturbing things, some of which still keep me up at night. Until you have been there, and know just how fast things get completely out of control, you would not understand the reality of what happened that day. I am wondering if most of you think Tillman was the only soldier killed by friendly fire during this conflict. He was a brave man, and died, accidently by our hands, but he is not the only soldier, or Marine, who has died by friendly fire. It is a bit sad to think no one is asking about the others that have died the same way.
    Reply to this comment
    by gunnerv1 November 9, 2006 3:42 PM PST
    Everything is Bush's fault, I don't care if the Sun fails to rise in the East, it's Bush's fault. The High tide is Bush's fault, the low tide is Bush's fault. I have to pass gas, it's Bush's fault. I wish you pukes would grow up in a real friggin fast hurry and get over it. You have power now, we'll have power back in about ten years. (if we haven't gone to total Communisim)"Good luck, and good night"
    Reply to this comment
    by saransk November 9, 2006 4:25 PM PST
    The tradgedy of Tillman's death is that he has become a political "football" and his true patriotism has been overshadowed.
    "Friendly Fire" happens in war. In 1944 the Air Force bombed our lines not once, but twice in France - killing a general.
    I don't think there was anything but a horrible set of circumstances, a group of tired soldiers, and a loss of situational awareness that led to his being shot.
    Were procedures not followed - yes. Was there an attempt to minimize how much information got out - yes. Will anything be served by pursuing this into the ground - no. The young men who were responsible for this action will always carry it. Pat Tillman died for a cause - he was a patriot.
    My heart goes out to his father and family, but it may be that there is no one person who knows exactly what happened - unfortunately war takes the lives of wonderful young men.
    Reply to this comment
    by saransk November 9, 2006 4:26 PM PST
    The tradgedy of Tillman's death is that he has become a political "football" and his true patriotism has been overshadowed.
    "Friendly Fire" happens in war. In 1944 the Air Force bombed our lines not once, but twice in France - killing a general.
    I don't think there was anything but a horrible set of circumstances, a group of tired soldiers, and a loss of situational awareness that led to his being shot.
    Were procedures not followed - yes. Was there an attempt to minimize how much information got out - yes. Will anything be served by pursuing this into the ground - no. The young men who were responsible for this action will always carry it. Pat Tillman died for a cause - he was a patriot.
    My heart goes out to his father and family, but it may be that there is no one person who knows exactly what happened - unfortunately war takes the lives of wonderful young men.
    Reply to this comment
    by mijomar-2009 November 9, 2006 4:35 PM PST
    This one issue, as tragic as it is, as tragic as they always are, reoccur in the history of this and hundreds of other wars, spawning the cliche ' War Is Hell '....and ironically, we never seem to learn. That is the real tragedy.
    The legacy of war never changes, it leaves ubiquitous innocent death, social destruction, lasting hatreds and unmeasurable despair...and usually solves nothing at its conclusion.
    Nothing good comes of war...except perhaps an extremely expensive form of population control and occasionally new technology or two are developed. War is disruptive to all societies in so many ways and yet we continue to rationalize and accept, and validate the necessity of war. Again, I think that is the ultimate tragedy of all this. How does one apologize to those souls forever damaged by the fallacy and insanity of war? War is hell?
    As ideal as this may sound, the horror will not go away until we embrace as a world society, somehow, a reality that excludes the insanity of war from our combined cultures.
    Reply to this comment
    by luvuall November 9, 2006 4:37 PM PST
    well gunner no-one believes George W is god as you do effecting the tide and all: Tillman giving up a dream come true million dollar contract to defend the interests of his country does make him very special
    Reply to this comment
    by ehallsh November 9, 2006 4:42 PM PST
    As I read over these sincere comments posted here, it is painfully obvious to me how many are still naive to the truth of this war, our political system, and the pillage of our Constitution, which is by the way GWB more than %u201CA G*d d*mn piece of paper%u201D. It cannot go unsaid -- If Tillman was truly told %u201Cwho%u201D and %u201Cwhat%u201D was really going on beneath it all, he may have reconsidered. Bottom line -- Tillman died with his firm belief in this amazing country we call America. He did not die for the lies he was told. I proudly give nothing but praises for our military, but feel a great disappointment in our leadership, and those evil individuals who pull the strings of power for their own personal gain.
    Reply to this comment
    by tinker3478 November 9, 2006 5:23 PM PST
    j_flood

    There again just one of many. It was not a "cover-up" just one of those horribly sad things that happened. Look at Max Cleland. For years, he thought his wounds were his own fault until someone saw him on television and came forward to tell him the grenade that blew him apart was off someone else's ammo belt.

    As has been noted, Pat Tillman died for his country and he believed in what he was doing.
    The worst thing people can do is belittle that sacrifice by belittling a president even if we would like to see George Bush drawn, quartered and burned in effigy. With LBJ, we made the mistake of hating his guts and hating the war, and transferred that hate to our troops when they came home. Max Cleland has said in an interview that he's never really recovered from the emotional pain of his homecoming. That's what should make us ashamed. Bush is going to the ranch very, very rich in two years.We can't touch him regardless of what he deserves so why don't we quit calling each other names and start working on things that matter-how about better VA hospitals and benefits for vets. Maybe we could draft Max to run the VA again-it was the best then it's ever been.
    Reply to this comment
    by jammer76010 November 9, 2006 5:28 PM PST
    I thank God for all the Pat Tillman's of America. They went where they were needed, even though they didn't have to do so. They believed in what America stood for prior to the "Bush Oil War"; and for that we should be eternally grateful. They believed in their hearts and minds that America stood for freedom for everyone; and they put their lives on the line to ensure that it was so. How could they have known that they were deprived of their lives by a group of obscenely rich sociopaths who cared nothing of their sacrifices other than it was more money in their corporate bank accounts.

    This world is a much worse place without all the "Pat Tillman%u2019s" who gave their lives and limbs to protect our ideals and way of life. Heaven is a better place with Pat Tillman, Casey Sheehan, and all of their comrades in arms. Hell will certainly be much more crowded with the executives of Enron, Halliburton, KBR, and the 2000-2008 White House Mafia.
    Reply to this comment
    by ibkirstie66 November 9, 2006 5:30 PM PST
    In response to post from Lifarrow @2:25 PST
    I agree these matters are better suited to remain between the families of the solidiers who died questionable deaths and the military.
    However, If the public is not aware of the magnitude of cover ups and under disclosure of "accidental" deaths, These events will continue and no measures will be taken to try to reduce the number of incidents. As to your comment about lazer surgery for one of the shooters present at Pat Tillmans death, The Military has failed previously to certify or (up chit) at least one Navy Pilot, in the past, who was allowed to fly a Marine Helicopter, even after the discovery of a hairline skull fracture at which time a down chit was issued. I know this first hand from my personal copy of a JAG report issued in my husbands "Mishap". The Co-Pilot was responsible for the navigation. He coordinated the path of that Helo, sending it straight into the side of a mountain in Half Moon Bay, CA. This Soldier was also a commercial pilot for a major airline at the time. Is there a documented release (up chit) to active duty from the Tillman unit soldiers surgeon for clear vision, and if so, why? The soldier in question has said his vision was hazy. The Army would have every reason to withold a mistake of this magnitude. Please don't assume all rules,regulations and procedures are followed 100% of the time.
    Reply to this comment
    by inarguable November 9, 2006 7:20 PM PST
    Sadly, friendly fire events will always occur. The sheer chaos of combat, the 'fog of war', is difficult to comprehend unless you have been in a life and death struggle before yourself. Monday morning quarterbacking (ok, bad choice of words considering we are talking about NFLer Tillman, but you get the point) is easy to do from the safe little confines of our western 1st world society, but sadly, blue on blue engagements are, and always have been, a part of war. In WWII, thousands of allied soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen died from friendly fire, but that war was so intense that most of the time, the dead were simply rounded up and shipped out, without anyone ever examining whether the lead that made the guy dead was ours or theirs. War is ugly and imprecise, and there is nothing that can be done about that.
    Reply to this comment
    by americanvet-2009 November 9, 2006 8:17 PM PST
    We should be hearing more on the news from Mary Tillman, mother of Pat Tillman, instead of that Cindy Sheenahan, or whatever.

    According to news reports from the San Francisco Chronicle and The Guardian in the U.K., Pat Tillman beleived the Iraq war was illegal, and told his fellow Rangers so. He read Noam Chomsky, the author who was against the Iraq war, and intended to meet with him after the his service. He also refused to be a war "poster boy".

    A determination was made in the first investigation, done in a weeks time, that Pat's death was due to "friendly fire". Yet the Army presented a complete scenario to our press that he died from enemy fire, leading a charge up a hill. Fabrication. Known lies. This was upheld for a full month.

    Can you really believe that one of the shooters who shot at Pat Tillman had laser surgery, and everything he saw was "hazy"? Another claimed he had "tunnel vision". These guys are U.S. Army Rangers? What's the truth here? It's very damning, whatever it is.

    This is a much bigger story than Cindy Shenahan.

    Where's the TV news talking heads and investigative reporters on this one??
    Reply to this comment
    by inarguable November 9, 2006 8:43 PM PST
    AmericanVet...
    You say "these guys were Army Rangers" as if that should denote that they should not make mistakes like this blue on blue incident. For the most part, the Army Rangers are young men who like the idea of playing war, but that doesnt mean that they are true "professional" soldiers like SF-ODA, ODB, or ODD operators are. Yes, the Rangers do have more training and have built a unit cohesion that is better than a typical US infantry fighting force has, but they are by no means immune to going blind in the fog of war and falling prey to stupid mistakes. There is a reason that the true "professional warriors" - SpecOps soldiers like the Green Berets or Delta commandos, loath the idea of having to rely on the Rangers as a support element in combat. Ask any Special Forces operator (many of whom went through the Ranger training in their first few years in the service) what they think of the Rangers as a fighting force, and you will not get rave reviews. While better trained than the general infantry, the Rangers are still rather typical, meaning that fire discipline and tactical foresight tends to fall apart rather rapidly in the face of percieved threats.
    Reply to this comment
    by inarguable November 9, 2006 8:43 PM PST
    AmericanVet...
    You say "these guys were Army Rangers" as if that should denote that they should not make mistakes like this blue on blue incident. For the most part, the Army Rangers are young men who like the idea of playing war, but that doesnt mean that they are true "professional" soldiers like SF-ODA, ODB, or ODD operators are. Yes, the Rangers do have more training and have built a unit cohesion that is better than a typical US infantry fighting force has, but they are by no means immune to going blind in the fog of war and falling prey to stupid mistakes. There is a reason that the true "professional warriors" - SpecOps soldiers like the Green Berets or Delta commandos, loath the idea of having to rely on the Rangers as a support element in combat. Ask any Special Forces operator (many of whom went through the Ranger training in their first few years in the service) what they think of the Rangers as a fighting force, and you will not get rave reviews. While better trained than the general infantry, the Rangers are still rather typical, meaning that fire discipline and tactical foresight tends to fall apart rather rapidly in the face of percieved threats.
    Reply to this comment
    by November 9, 2006 8:45 PM PST
    I have not read all of the posts here, but have to say that splitting a platoon in half is not done. I spent 21 years in the military and you never split up. Not even the Air Force pilots split up. Wingman stays with his wingman for protection. I would also say that trying to fix a vehicle in the middle of nowhere is not done, if it dies and can't be restarted, it is disabled and left behind. You don't hang around waiting for trouble unless you are Dirty Harry
    Reply to this comment
    by americanvet-2009 November 9, 2006 8:55 PM PST
    I remind all the posters here who did not read this article very closely:

    Pat's unit of 34 divided up in hostile territory, with only one 50 cal machine gun between them. Not a smart thing to do. this was ordered done by higher ups not at the scene.

    They were in one place for hours, then, instead of waiting for cover of darkness to negotiate the "ambush alley" pass they entered, did so in broad daylight. This was against Ranger rules.

    Pat was shot at in broad daylight, three times in a tight pattern, in the forehead, partially taking off his head. His uniform and body armor were stripped off him, and buried on the spot, as a "biohazard", not a common practice.

    The Rangers that shot at him did not observe the rule to identify your target first. Pat and the Afghan he was with were wearing similar uniforms, not the traditional Afghan garb. One claimed he had just had laser surgery and everything was "hazy". Another claimed to have "tunnel vision". Yet, Pat sustained 3 close-patterned shots in the forehead. They claimed they fired from a moving vehicle. Before that, it was from a stationary point, and before that, it was a moving vehicle again.

    Some wonder if it was a "hit" on one of their own.

    Reminds me of the attack on the U.S.S. Liberty and the subsequent coverup: www.ussliberty.org
    a site maintained by the "officer on deck" that day.
    Reply to this comment
    by catt42701 November 9, 2006 9:37 PM PST
    If this was just about Tillman that would be telling but there was more. A little paragraph about a village and two more Rangers shot by friendly fire. This needs more that an investigation it needs a court marshell. These Rangers were so worked up by the idea of killing that they didn't care who they killed.
    Reply to this comment
    by mh4cbs1 November 9, 2006 9:52 PM PST
    War is Sick. War is Terror. These tragic events happen, all wars have their chaos, death, destruction, innocent victims. Violence leads to more violence hate and revenge. War must be absolutely the last resort. No more Iraqs! When will people learn, it is so much less costly in lives and treasure to seek peace.

    Tinker3478: Bush should be held accountable. It's not about name-calling. Not about revenge. It's simply seeking some justice, some resolution for the needless horrific War that he unleashed in Iraq. Even if you don't want to believe that Bush intentionally lied his way into War (and the facts are that he did lie), there should still be some accountability.
    Reply to this comment
    by inarguable November 9, 2006 9:56 PM PST
    cat42701,
    You make this foolish comment about the Rangers being so "worked up about killing that they didnt care who they killed." That is so very easy to say from your safe little sanctuary at home in the free world, and exposes a level of ignorance about the chaotic and incredibly frightening reality of infantry warfare. Yes, it appears that ROEs were clearly violated, but that happens when young troops are scared witless, sleep deprived and hungry, separated from the security that a fully intact squad helps provide, and fully aware that there are PLENTY of bad guys around the immediate area who wish nothing more than to kill an American fighting man - or better yet, capture them, torture them, and then kill them.
    FAR to often, civilians in our society jump to an opinion that is formed ignorantly, having NEVER bothered to examine or understand the myriad factors at play that contribute to the incredible confusion and chaos that is combat. Yes, people screwed up here (by the sounds of it, both up and down the chain of command) and that cost Tillman his life, but to conclude that this incident was caused by kill-hungry, bloodthirsty Rangers rather than simply frightened boys who believed they were coming under attack is wrong.

    Reply to this comment
    by anglgirl76 November 10, 2006 9:02 AM PST
    I have never served in our Country's Military, however, I am the daughter of a military man (served 20 years), my husband, is Career Air Force Security, and my heart goes out to all of the families that have lost a loved one, friend, or anyone in any War. War is never a good thing, but, its the way we are. I am proud of our Military and the job they are doing. My husband was unable to go to Iraq in 2002 and 2003 when his unit was deploying in groups, because he couldn't get ONE vaccination because I was pregnant, so the story of the "hazy vision" doesn't fly with me. I have been around the military all of my life, working on various Air Force bases as a civilian, and the policy is they don't return to full duty, even in war. My husband was upset he couldn't go. He wanted to serve in the Middle East, that is in part why he chose the military, to protect, defend and serve our Country.
    I never knew who Pat Tillman was before he died, I was never a football fan... I have heard his death was a great loss to football, and I believe that, but lets not forget, ALL DEATH is a GREAT LOSS as that person is someone's son, daughter, father, mother, sister, brother, aunt, uncle, cousin, nephew, niece, grandparent. We all have someone.
    Happy Veteran's Day!!! All Veterans DESERVE this day of Praise and Rememberance!! Thank you!! Thank you for doing the job, that I couldn't.
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    by grumpas November 10, 2006 9:36 AM PST
    Laying all the arguments aside! I will agree with the one who said Bush should be held accountable for starting a totally unnecessary war! We will never be a whole nation until he is held accountable! If for no other reason than to send a message to future President's who decide to use the US military for their own selfish purposes! War is not a game you can casually start! Never giving a second thought about the innocent people who are going to get killed because of your whimsical attitude toward it! We are going to have to live with the mess in Iraq long after the shooting has stopped! There is a whole generation of Arab's who are going to loathe us for what we did there. He deliberately lied to start a totally unnecessary war with Iraq! As far as I can see he is responsible for all the deaths there! It is sad that Tillman had to give his life for such a sorry pathetic man as Bush!
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    by ZFAM14 November 10, 2006 12:12 PM PST
    As a USMC Vietnam vet, there were many incidents of "friendly fire" that occurred. Usually, investigations showed that it was a mistake in all but the most obvious cases. I feel that because Pat Tillman was a "celebrity", his death is getting much more scrutiny. I really think that the soldiers who were involved feel bad enough without being put through the mill by our government.
    Reply to this comment
    by ZFAM14 November 10, 2006 12:12 PM PST
    As a USMC Vietnam vet, there were many incidents of "friendly fire" that occurred. Usually, investigations showed that it was a mistake in all but the most obvious cases. I feel that because Pat Tillman was a "celebrity", his death is getting much more scrutiny. I really think that the soldiers who were involved feel bad enough without being put through the mill by our government.
    Reply to this comment
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